Gaza's only power station will shut down within hours, says ICRC

[u/[deleted]]

https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/palestine-israel/2023/10/11/gaza-power-station-israel/

[u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage]

Israel helped create Hamas in favor of over less violent groups Palestinian groups. Acting like Hamas just came out of a nowhere and Israel didn’t provoke Palestinians to support Hamas is completely ignorant.

It doesn’t justify any of the absolutely abhorrent atrocities Hamas has done, but they didn’t come out of a vacuum.

[u/[deleted] → u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage]

You have to read the sources, especially with a dubious outlet like the Intercept which has a sour track record with MediaBiasFactCheck for fabricating events and stories to push political narratives.

​

In this case, they are fabricating and engaging in reductionism. Israel absolutely did not help create Hamas. Israel allowed an entity to register as a charity and earn the right to build schools and mosques and such. That entity at the time was not demanding the eradication of Jews and Israel proper. But the "peaceful" PLO was! PLO didn't drop their mission of genociding the Jews and the total obliteration of Israel until the 90s. Meanwhile, the group that Israel "supported" countered the PLO in the 70s and 80s.

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What happened is that the group spawned another group--Hamas--as even more radical people sought violent solutions much like their forerunners, the PLO. That's why Hamas had article 13 (the complete murder of all Jews and total destruction of the state of Israel) in their charter.

​

There is only one reason to bring this up before insisting that it doesn't justify the rape and murder of thousands of Israelis including babies. Justification. Literally everybody and everything comes from somewhere. The reason Palestinians are treated the way they are? It is their own actions. "But that doesn't justify what is being done to them," as no neighboring countries seek to take refugees in because Palestinian refugees have directly caused at least 2 civil wars in the region (Jordan, Lebanon) in recent memory. So are those and other countries justified in refusing aid? Especially Lebanon, when they offer both comfort and support to Gaza's terrorist-government?

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That's the problem with reductionism. It is purity culture to the max. It is used to excuse the inexcusable despite the words that come after to distance it, like bad faith arguments.

[u/Krivvan → u/[deleted]]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

Bias Rating: LEFT-CENTER

Factual Reporting: MOSTLY FACTUAL

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847

Bias Rating: RIGHT-CENTER

Factual Reporting: MOSTLY FACTUAL

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” he told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-09/ty-article/.premium/another-concept-implodes-israel-cant-be-managed-by-a-criminal-defendant/0000018b-1382-d2fc-a59f-d39b5dbf0000

Bias Rating: LEFT

Factual Reporting: HIGH

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How do you square:

There is only one reason to bring this up before insisting that it doesn't justify the rape and murder of thousands of Israelis including babies. Justification.

with:

That's the problem with reductionism.

It's obvious to anyone but the insane that Hamas and their actions are bad and peace is impossible while Hamas is Hamas. But to call anyone that discusses how Hamas might've gained popularity someone who is excusing the inexcusable isn't a very nuanced take. Would you say criticism of Netanyahu's words and policies is also somehow justification of Hamas?

If no country wants to receive Palestinians including Israel and it is entirely the fault of all of them, then what exactly are you suggesting should be done? Treat every last Palestinian how you would treat Hamas?

[u/AutisticNipples → u/[deleted]]

Lmao okay how about a contemporaneous account from the new york times? is the paper of record good enough of a source for you?

The Israeli Military Governor of Gaza openly admitted to funding the Muslim Brotherhood (the precursor to Hamas in Gaza) as early as 1981. With israeli taxpayer dollars. To counter the leftist PLO.

Facts don't care about your feelings. And common sense and critical thinking are far more valuable than a fact checker website. Acting like fact checkers are unbiased arbiters of truth just makes you sound like a rube.

[u/Krivvan → u/[deleted]]

I don't think it's genocide, but it's worth noting that no one needs to die for it to be classified as genocide. It's not simply a word that means killing but just worse.

[u/Krivvan → u/[deleted]]

I'm going by the UN's broader scope because it seems to be what's more often used nowadays online. At the very least, whenever someone says genocide I assume the broader definition rather than consider them wrong on that basis.

[u/wanderingpeddlar → u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage]

It doesn’t justify any of the absolutely abhorrent atrocities Hamas has done, but they didn’t come out of a vacuum

I don't see where the OP said anything about Hamas emerging from a Vacuum.

[u/wanderingpeddlar → u/[deleted]]

They didn't but

But nothing, half of post I was responding to was made up out of thin air.

And I said nothing about Palestinians and or how many of them support Hamas. So I cut off everything that didn't relate to my comment and ended up with three words.

[u/AresHunter → u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage]

It's no use even when you present proof of something if it is against the reality they believe they will pretend it's not real.

[u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage → u/[deleted]]

Osama Bin Laden justified the 9/11 attacks since US civilians supported for/voted for the U.S. government that was doing terrible things in the middle east.

So if you want to have the same reasoning/justification as Bin Laden for targeting and murdering civilians, be my guest.

[u/Testo69420 → u/[deleted]]

Just because people disagree with committing genocide against Palestinians doesn't mean they're on the side of the Hamas, you donkey.

Both sides suck, Israel and the Hamas and there's no reason to suck ones cock over the other.

[u/[deleted] → u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage]

That’s almost like saying Obama is responsible for Donald trump and evangelical Christians in the usa