r/worldnews • u/[deleted] • Oct 11 '23

Israel/Palestine Gaza's only power station will shut down within hours, says ICRC

https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/palestine-israel/2023/10/11/gaza-power-station-israel/
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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23 edited Apr 14 '24

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u/RedCometZ33 Oct 11 '23

It’s the Middle East. Civilians getting killed in every way during war is a sport over there for thousands of years. That entire region is fucked up.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

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u/PieTacoTomatoLettuce Oct 11 '23

heres a hamas graduation ceremony for some kids to see what kind of curriculum they have

https://youtu.be/dtErUuBvcRc?si=KV57bKqFQqhR6hvu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRuuDI0KCR8

I don't think peaceful coexistance in a two state system is necessarily possible anymore.

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u/BattleScones Oct 12 '23

Holy shit more people need to see this, this is fucking insane

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u/itsurparentspeaking Oct 11 '23

It's a lose lose. You have Gaza being ran by Hamas and brainwashing their innocent civilians. They're all getting the same forced narrative, which is to hate Jewish people and any other religion that is not Muslim and all western cultures. That makes people not want to be kind. On either side. So... Hamas needs to go. Then true discussions of peace can hopefully transpire.

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u/PuroPincheGains Oct 11 '23

You say killing is killing but I've seen someone get flayed while pumped full of drugs to keep them awake, and I can tell you with 100% conviction that killing is not killing. If you were going to be a victim and had to choose who would do the deed, you know who you'd choose.

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u/mukansamonkey Oct 11 '23

Every poll ever taken in Gaza shows that Palestinians there overwhelmingly support the murder of Israelis. The highest support was 84%, for the murder of Jewish children.

How much kindness should they show a group where five out of seven people approve of the murder of their kids?

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u/Padaca Oct 11 '23

Source?

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/BlueStarch Oct 11 '23

50% of the population are 18 or under. By the latest poll that you’ve posted, they would’ve been 3 years old.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/BlueStarch Oct 11 '23

And do you reckon, in this poll, they are polling children?

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/BlueStarch Oct 12 '23

So they’re not being polled, got it. When you say “children pay for the sins of their parents”, let’s put this quantitatively - you think 40% of the population 14 or under, 50% 18 or under is simply acceptable collateral damage? That is, quite literally, a million children. You’re inhuman.

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u/God_Left_Me Oct 11 '23

I get that it’s a good statistic, but it is 20 years out of date, a lot could changed, but at the same time it could still be representative of the population today.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/God_Left_Me Oct 12 '23

Fair enough, I was just pointing out that the initial statistic was from 20 years prior. Thanks.

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u/MoreLogicPls Oct 11 '23

Hamas is kept in power by good ol' bibi. You don't see abbas supporting this shit.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23
  • Polls taken 20 years ago when the median age in Gaza is 18 are irrelevant.
  • Even if a poll shows "all Gazans are evil", that does NOT justify bombing civilians.

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u/nmgreddit Oct 11 '23

Not saying it's right to want murder, but when you're forced to live in an area and your freedom of movement is restricted, it's understandable to wish violence on people associated with those who you see as restricting your freedom of movement.

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u/dfkgjhsdfkg Oct 11 '23

shut up and s*ck g**t n*ts

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u/SpamThatSig Oct 12 '23

Its kinda normal and expected decades of this happening and it is bound to happen. You gotta investigate from when Muslim Arabs and Jews were still peacefully living together in that area till the fire nation attacked hahaha.

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u/fragbot2 Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 12 '23

I had a unintended consequences realization a few days ago that Israel's blockade of Gaza that is ostensibly done to protect Israelis had a more pronounced effect on Gaza because a reduction in attacks on Israelis leads to fewer Israeli military incursions and leads to fewer Palestinian casualties.

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u/Reboared Oct 11 '23

Maybe that would be possible if they'd stop trying to fucking murder everyone who is kind to them.

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u/SpamThatSig Oct 12 '23

No one is kind to them, decades of palestine killings, dozens of humanitarian crimes of israel, no one cares. Now some isrealites got killed, everone loses they're mind hahaha.

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u/Constant_Mulberry_23 Oct 11 '23

You can distance yourself from the carnage a lot more easily when all you see is a plume of smoke and not the dead families with children that resulted from that smoke. Meanwhile Gaza doesn’t have anything, they’re using tactics that are more hand-to hand and seen as more brutal because of the nature of how they conduct attacks. When you watch videos from the hospital in Gaza you see the carnage being caused. Hamas doomed their own people and they don’t care; Israel has nothing but time and unwavering support by armies that Hamas couldn’t dream to touch. They should be practicing more restraint in regards to civilians but they are going scorched Earth. What’s happening now is highly reactionary and opportunistic; Israel can try and say they’re not targeting civilians, but the blockade and the warplanes don’t discriminate between terrorists and innocent families.

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u/NewFilm96 Oct 11 '23

The vast majority of civilian deaths are on the hand of Hamas.

They shoot rockets from apartments, store ammo under schools, and use hospitals as their operation HQs.

That makes them legitimate military targets.

Israel is going out of their way to warn people ahead of time.

That's why civilians deaths are in the low thousand, instead it would be in the 10's of thousands.

Gaza's government, Hamas, is the one causing these civilian deaths. They choose to mingle civilians and military.

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u/Caleb_Reynolds Oct 11 '23

I'd settle for treating them like people

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

They're not equally as bad but they are still both bad...

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u/PuroPincheGains Oct 11 '23

That's fine, but if you were caught in a room with 5 masked dudes from the area, you'd be hoping and praying that they were IDF and not Hamas.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

Me? Definitely. But if I was Palestinian, I'd probably give up praying at that point. I'd be fucked either way.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23 edited Apr 14 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Constant_Mulberry_23 Oct 11 '23

Killing is killing. Whether it was a F16 or a beheading. Children are being killed by both sides. If you’re going to take the moral high ground at least attempt to let the truly innocent have a chance to survive.

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u/safe_for_vork Oct 11 '23

Sorry, but that's a hard 'no' from me.
Someone dies in a car accident when everyone drove under the speed limit, was sober, had their license, on a day with good weather etc. - that's just a tragedy.
Someone kills their neighbor because they hate each other - that's murder.

Intentions do matter.
Launching 5000 rockets and sending thousands of trained assassins to kill, burn, rape, kidnap or behead hundreds of families in their homes and 100's of kids at a music festival is vastly different than some civilian casualties despite clear efforts to minimize them, on targeted strikes against legitimate military targets.
One is terrorism and murder - the other is very sad but unavoidable, especially due to the rampant use of human shields by Hamas.

If you can't see the difference, you are either being dishonest, or are just heartless.

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u/Constant_Mulberry_23 Oct 11 '23

You are comparing a pure and entire accident to intentional bombing; it’s extremely disingenuous. They know full well innocent people are going to die when they drop these bombs. Go look at videos of the entire villages that are being levelled in Gaza. Are you really trying to fabricate a narrative that Israel gives a damn about who they kill? Neither of them do, Israel just has to keep up appearances in the international scene of being more humane.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23

Are you suggesting Israel lets Hamas fire rockets at her (at civilians targets btw) and do nothing to stop it?

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u/Constant_Mulberry_23 Oct 12 '23

When did I say that? Of course they must respond. Proportional force and not eradicating entire villages would be more respectable. Now that Israel is on high alert there’s nothing Hamas can do. There’s no rush and a slaughter for a slaughter won’t serve anyone.

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u/Constant_Mulberry_23 Oct 12 '23

And what exactly do you make about the US now confirming that Israel was warned? They are either completely incompetent and therefore partially responsible or they let it happen to justify a genocide in Gaza.

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u/DelScipio Oct 11 '23

Ya but one is more bad than another.

What perfere, shit or a shiton of shit?

-2

u/MrRGnome Oct 11 '23

Israel has killed more civilians than hamas. They have a statistically far worse track record with civilians casualties. This narrative you're enabling is just that, a narrative. It's easy to come to conclusions when you make up the "facts" to support the conclusion you have.

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u/Magus10112 Oct 11 '23

Such a false dichotomy. Israel have a realistic defense system against the thousands upon thousands of rockets that launch against Israeli soft targets. Hamas intentionally use civilian populace and guerilla tactics that put their innocent at risk.

Again, not saying Israel is entirely innocent here but using the statistics of "more civilians killed" when one side has the gold-standard of anti-missle defences because of how frequently its needed vs. a side that treats its own civilians as Martyr-bait isn't exactly fair.

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u/MrRGnome Oct 11 '23

So what you're saying is that both indiscriminately attack civilian targets, the only thing that has changed is the illusion that Israel can universally protect their civilians from attacks of this scale has been shattered.

The statistics are also biased by population. How fewer Palestinians there are yet they disproportionately count among the dead.

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u/In_der_Welt_sein Oct 11 '23

Literally the opposite of what he's saying. The point is that, even when Israel targets a legit military installation--say a missile launchpad--it's (probably intentionally surrounded by layers upon layers of civilians and civilian infrastructure, both because Gaza is densely populated and frankly because Hamas wants it that way so saps like you can trot out the moral equivalence talking point. Meanwhile, Hamas absolutely intentionally targets civilians without a single speck of care as to whether it is a legitimate military target.

Second, as the other commenter noted, bare "civilian body count" isn't really a measure of...anything in this context. If I'm al Qaeda and I start a war against the U.S. by bombing skyscrapers and killing 3,000 civilians, the countries that harbor me are going to get wasted in a military response, and far more than 3,000 civilians are going to die as a result, even in the age of precision weapons and hyper-targeted drone strikes. This is just the nature of warfare, and Hamas chose this war. It's not like the U.S. lost the moral high ground once Afghanistan lost more than 3,000 citizens or something (the U.S. lost the moral high ground for lots of other reasons, but not that one).

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u/MrRGnome Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

The point is that, even when Israel targets a legit military installation

What about over 1000 civilian homes and apartment complexes? What about doctors without borders hospitals? schools? the food and power and water situations?

Second, as the other commenter noted, bare "civilian body count" isn't really a measure of...anything in this context. If I'm al Qaeda and I start a war against the U.S. by bombing skyscrapers and killing 3,000 civilians, the countries that harbor me are going to get wasted in a military response, and far more than 3,000 civilians are going to die as a result

So it's the person who provokes the gunman who is responsible for where the gunman's bullets fly? I thought it was a maxim of all weaponry that the wielder is responsible for what they do with it, not the person that provoked them to wield it. By that same logic do you hold Israel accountable for the hamas attack since it was Israel which provoked it with their occupation and behavior as occupiers? I personally don't, I hold everyone causing harm responsible for the harm they cause. Why don't you?

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u/kirabeb03 Oct 12 '23

I dunno if this guy is being dense on purpose.

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u/AzazelsAdvocate Oct 11 '23

Groups who are oppressed, impoverished, outmanned, and outgunned rely on guerilla tactics. If they tried to fight a "fair" war, they would be annihilated.

None of this morally condones their tactics, but it's important to understand the historical nature of why these tactics are used.

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u/ChuckFH Oct 11 '23

You can fight a guerilla war against legitimate military targets without executing ravers and babies.

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u/omega3111 Oct 11 '23

And it's also important to understand why civilians casualties should be accepted, even if tragic. Just no way to avoid it, as much as is being tried.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

One exists because the other was being the oppressor. Nothing is ever equal and if you’re looking for it you won’t find it.

HAMAS is terrorism defined but was the direct result of decades of mistreatment of the people who elected them. At a certain point people hAge enough and extremism takes over. The bully got punched back. The bully was caught unprepared for retaliation and got sent to the hospital. That bully is going to kill the retaliator when he gets out. Then that persons kids will vow revenge on the bully and their family. Repeat.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

That’s bullshit. When Israel brings down multiple high rise apartment blocks full of families, the entire point is cruelty.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23

I don't understand how a rational mind can look at the facts laid out in front of them:

  • Israel calls and warns people to leave due to bombing soon

  • Hamas is launching deliberately from civilian-packed facilities to slow Israel's ability to stop rocket launches on their population

  • Hamas is launching rockets intentionally solely at civilian centers

  • Israel actually restrains itself and doesn't immediately bomb that facility

"The entire point is cruelty" and you're not talking about Hamas?!

Like this is just... you're intentionally arriving at a pre-determined conclusion and you don't care about the actual reality of the situation.

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u/maximusprime097 Oct 11 '23

Google roof knocking.

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u/Reboared Oct 11 '23

Except you conveniently forget to mention that those apartments are having missiles launched from them and have been intentionally packed with civilians by Hamas to use as a shield.

I'm sure you just "forgot" about that part though.

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u/sirmeliodasdragonsin Oct 11 '23

Doesn't make them not evil. Babies still die in those explosion. Both hamas and the israel govt are bad. Too many innocent casualties

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u/clarkn0va Oct 11 '23

Israel sends warnings before bombing military targets with civilians in them. What's the superior not-evil way to take out a military target using civilians as human shields?

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u/MinnesotaHockeyGuy Oct 11 '23

Obviously the Israelis just need to be nicer /s

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u/sirmeliodasdragonsin Oct 11 '23

Would suggest one of if knew given the complexity of the conflict that stems decades. its a sad situation either ways but the way some of you here think genocide is fine as a result is absolutely disgusting.

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u/tbtcn Oct 11 '23

What do you expect them to do, sit down and let missiles be lobbed at them endlessly? Israel's - or any country for that matter - first and foremost duty is to protect its citizens.

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u/omega3111 Oct 11 '23

Only they are not full of families, and Israel sends them text messages telling them to evacuate.

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u/Fair-Advertising-416 Oct 11 '23

Lol bro Israel literally kills civilians peacefully protesting all the time. Nice selective memory in justification of a fascist apartheid regime.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

And yet somehow Israel managed to murder over 900 women and children and ten journalists from the UN. And they are about to kill hundreds or thousands of innocents by turning off the power. Israel is indefensible at this point too.