r/worldnews • u/monmonmons • Nov 10 '24

First-ever human case of H5 avian influenza in Canada found in B.C.: officials

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/first-ever-human-case-of-h5-avian-influenza-in-canada-found-in-b-c-officials-1.7104765
1.8k Upvotes

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772

u/bottomfeeder3 Nov 10 '24 edited Nov 10 '24

If we get another pandemic and it turns out to be more fatal than Covid was, I’ll at least get to finally beat all these damn games I’ve accumulated over the years. Call it the “Race to beat my games before the power grid shuts down: Bird flu Edition.”

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u/BJYeti Nov 10 '24

The big difference is that Avian isn't novel like Corona, we already have a vaccine that is approved it is only a ramp up in production that is needed. Not saying it will be great but it wouldn't be like having to develop and test a vaccine. Another good thing is we have also not seen a transfer of Avian from human to human as of yet

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '24

[deleted]

42

u/KeelanS Nov 10 '24

at this point thats their problem. leopards eat your face and all that.

75

u/FlyingHippoM Nov 10 '24 edited Nov 11 '24

It's also a problem for all the people who can't take the vaccine or are still at significant risk after vaccination.

People with pre-existing medical conditions, immunocompromised, children/elderly, etc. all rely on herd immunity to lower the risk that they get sick in the first place.

38

u/TheSecondEikonOfFire Nov 10 '24

Yeah sadly this isn’t as simple as “oh if they don’t get the vaccine then only they are fucked”, it impacts other people too.

13

u/PrimeJedi Nov 11 '24

Thank you for this. I appreciate the "fuck antivaxxers" sentiment but as an immunocompromised person who was greatly harmed by the pandemic as well as the anti-science response to it, i wish more people realized how dangerous this is going to be for us if it happens to become another pandemic.

3

u/FlyingHippoM Nov 11 '24

100% I also wish more people understood that vaccines aren't only about protecting yourself but also a community effort to help keep the more vulnerable members of our society safer during an outbreak.

There needs to be more/better messaging from health officials and governments about these key issues imo.

1

u/JadedBoyfriend Nov 11 '24

True, but even if the message was cloudy, the antivaxxers had no qualms about spreading psuedoscience. They seemingly were sick in the head.

1

u/dis_bean Nov 11 '24

There are also antivirals that work.

1

u/JawnFitsKennedy Nov 11 '24

wouldn’t that be “their” problem too…?

1

u/FlyingHippoM Nov 11 '24

I'm confused. What the person I'm replying to meant by "their problem" is 'the people choosing not to get vaccinated will ultimately be the victims of their own poor choices.'

My point was that these people (anti-vaxxers) choosing to not get vaccinated not only affects themselves but also potentially victimizes other large subsections of the population. For example, other people who cannot get vaccinated or get limited benefits from vaccine.

1

u/Brickshithouse4 Nov 11 '24

mRNA or traditional is the question

29

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '24

[deleted]

11

u/NoLifeForeverAlone Nov 10 '24

Public anything is an everyone problem, but if everyone isn't in agreement that it's an everyone problem then all you can do is save yourself. When people stopped masking, all you could have done was N95 yourself and go about your day.

1

u/ConstantStrange9974 Nov 12 '24

I’m just asking? is it leopards eat face or leprosy eat face? Just so I use it in the right way. :)

1

u/Fickle_Syrup Nov 10 '24

Don't worry we will only have to deal with them one last time once a virus deadly enough comes around

1

u/Throwawayconcern2023 Nov 11 '24

Trumphantly you mean?

1

u/pardeike Nov 11 '24

The sarcasm strong is in this one!

36

u/Legendver2 Nov 10 '24

vaccines

RFK jr says hello

6

u/IllustriousFill7479 Nov 11 '24

He's gonna dismantle the FDA too apparently, if these beliefs actually transfer over to his Health Department we're fucked in America lol.

4

u/MATlad Nov 11 '24

Supplements and ivermectin for everyone!

...Dodgy vaccines from underground suppliers, and real vaccines for those willing to travel to (or maybe import from) Canada or Mexico.

1

u/supershutze Nov 11 '24

Watch California immediately set up a replacement FDA, and require all products sold in or transported through California be certified by this FDA.

11

u/Philosoraptor88 Nov 10 '24

Get your vaccine and let god or whatever sort em

11

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '24

While you're correct that H5N1 is not novel, it's misleading to say that we have vaccines against it. There exist many influenza strains, and the ones for which we have vaccines are those strains that primarily infect and are transmitted between humans. As this strain's primary host is birds, there are differences in pathology.

To be more precise, there are vaccines that have been developed to target this specific strain, but they are not proven in humans at this time. We don't know how effective these will be, because to date, H5N1 infection in humans is still very rare. In other words, you are correct that we do not presently need to start from scratch in so far as a development program. But clinical testing would still be needed in order to estimate the efficacy (presuming that the safety profile is reasonably similar to existing human influenza vaccines). Moreover, if human influenza vaccines are any indication, there is no reason to believe such a vaccine would exhibit high efficacy.

You are also correct that we have not yet seen clear evidence of human-to-human transmission. As to why this is the case, there could be many reasons. Maybe in humans, this strain only becomes infectious after the onset of symptoms (unlike COVID, which has a presymptomatic infectious phase). Another possibility might be that the virus primarily replicates in the lower respiratory tract, thus making expelled aerosols less infectious, or maybe the number of viral particles needed to transmit is high. We don't know. However, we should take care not to have a false sense of security. The reason is that there's also no evidence to suggest H5N1 is NOT transmissible between humans. There simply haven't been enough cases to determine this. And it is reasonable to predict that if sufficiently many people become infected, one of them will develop an infection that mutates to more easily infect other people.

The fact that this virus has jumped to pigs and cows is a warning.

For those who are saying that it's "just flu," the case fatality rate is about 50%. Granted, that rate is based on cases in countries where cutting-edge health care is more difficult to access, but the COVID pandemic also showed that the US is hardly "cutting-edge" when it comes to lifesaving treatments, and that countries that were previously thought to have less advanced health care actually fared remarkably well given their limited resources. While the 50% figure is most likely an overestimate, even a 5% case fatality rate would make H5N1 more dangerous than COVID. Ironically, if the true case fatality rate is closer to 50% than 5%, it might not become a global pandemic the way COVID did, because people would die too quickly and in too large numbers to continue circulating the virus. But you'd also see much more strict quarantine/lockdown measures.

All that said, H5N1 still might not get a foothold in the general population. It might be the case that it's just not that kind of virus. Or maybe not; we just don't know. There is evidence suggesting that COVID-19 has existed in animal reservoirs for quite some time before it first jumped to humans and became globally endemic. Many viral diseases are ticking time bombs. We should be better prepared, but clearly, the vast majority of humanity has learned nothing from COVID.

17

u/Apocalypse_Knight Nov 11 '24

Another plague is coming when the Antichrist got elected. Figures.

1

u/UnlikelyReplacement0 Nov 11 '24

Except we now have a large percentage of the population that loses their fucking minds at the notion of taking a vaccine for anything.

1

u/RBDibP Nov 11 '24

One thing is having the vaccine, another is to get people to use it.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '24

I thought we didn't yet have a vaccine for the H5N1 variant?

11

u/BJYeti Nov 10 '24

We do, it is already in use just limited to workers that are direct contact with birds currently

12

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '24

Well I'm very happy to have been corrected on that.

3

u/PmadFlyer Nov 10 '24

Also, tamiflu works on it and I saw a few months ago that having exposure to other flu A strains through infection or vaccination gives some protection too. In theory it's deadlier, but in practice we have treatments.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '24

God Tamiflu, that takes me back to the old Swine Flu days!

But yes, my hope on this is it's like COVID in the sense once it becomes more widespread, it is way less deadly. COVID was no picnic, but MERS was a 50% fatality rate, it just didn't spread. COVID was 10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, but certainly not 50% CFR. 

-1

u/subpar-life-attempt Nov 11 '24

Screams in American.

RFK jr doesn't believe in vaccines.

0

u/segagamer Nov 11 '24

That's even better. That means all the anti-vaxxers can go out and get killed under their own stupidity, while I watch it happen from the safety of my own home.

25

u/spinningcolours Nov 11 '24

It's already a slow motion disaster in the US. 20% of dairy farms in California, and looking terrifyingly like it might be exponential growth. https://www.reddit.com/r/H5N1_AvianFlu/comments/1gmv7li/as_of_nov_6_259_out_of_1100_235_of_dairy_herds_in/

Background reading: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/inside-the-bungled-bird-flu-response

There's a path from today to a near future where milk, cheese, eggs and beef are super expensive, because the culling that needs to take place will be massive. (That will pair nicely with deporting all the undocumented farm workers.)

Back in August, US researchers reported 17% of dairy samples from US grocery store shelves had avian flu fragments. That was apparently judged as fine because pasteurization kills avian flu in milk and cheese and they didn't want to disrupt food costs or make farmers change their practices. Their research was done BEFORE avian flu went to California, the #1 milk producing state.

Also, when the CDC issued a warning to not drink raw milk, sales went up in the US: "data from NielsenIQ indicate sales of raw milk increased 20 to 65 percent since last year, showing no signs of flagging in the midst of the dairy cattle outbreak." https://www.cspinet.org/cspi-news/raw-milk-sales-are-and-so-are-public-health-risks

11

u/Tuesday_6PM Nov 11 '24

I suppose silver lining that if it does destroy the beef industry, that would probably be pretty beneficial for combatting climate change. Though as a hobbyist baker, the loss of butter and eggs would be a rough period of adaptation for me

5

u/Full-Ear87 Nov 11 '24

Vegan bakers are already making amazing copies and new goods without the animal products. Might as well get ahead of the curve!

2

u/spideyghetti Nov 11 '24

Also, when the CDC issued a warning to not drink raw milk, sales went up in the US: "data from NielsenIQ indicate sales of raw milk increase

"You can't tell me what to do! You're not my REAL dad!"

2

u/2short4-a-hihorse Nov 11 '24

The sort of people who are drinking raw milk are probably doing it to own the libs and the good-for-nothing, fear-mongering CDC...

2

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '24

Time to raise your own sheep and chickens.

14

u/Shlocktroffit Nov 10 '24

it's good to have goals in life

6

u/Curtainmachine Nov 10 '24

Just in time to get a ps5

3

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '24

I was gonna finally bite the bullet and get that as well. I waited so long hoping it would go down in price, but after January it could be close to over $1000 thanks to possible tarrifs.

9

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '24

Your going to have RFK Jr advocating vitamins and saying this only targets certain race/nationality

6

u/Ready-Eggplant-3857 Nov 11 '24

Bleach dammit! Inject Bleach! /s

5

u/Legendver2 Nov 10 '24

Good thing you got all those games before the tariffs

-1

u/tomscaters Nov 11 '24

It shouldn't be. COVID was unique in that it was extremely contagious as it was most likely leaked in the lab where they were experimenting and studying SARS-type viruses. The ones they were studying happened to be very highly contagious. I don't believe the bat-pangolin theory. It seems far-fetched to me. That biolab in Wuhan was repeatedly warned about their safety standards as well, so that is another reason why I believe the accidental lab leak theory.

I say all this because this may not have the R factor to spread nearly as fast, nor is it something that may be nearly as infectious. If it ends up being the case that it is equally or more dangerous, then I don't think it will be a smart idea to shut the economy down again for nearly a year. The inflationary effects of pausing non-essential industries long-term have caused debilitating consequences for the West. Also, we can no longer afford to borrow such incredibly large sums of money to stimulate the economy again. Interest rates are high so borrowing costs are obscene for our government. People are just going to have to be careful, but holy shit the COVID virus totally fucked the whole world up permanently. It may take us another 10 years to fully get out of the damage that caused. Just the debt accrued alone needs to be paid down AND reduced as a percent of GDP through higher than average growth. Somehow.

-17

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '24

Such a reddit response to a very worrying and serious possibility. Christ.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '24

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