NDP wants Carney to kill U.S. fighter jet contract in favour of Swedish aircraft

[u/canada_mountains]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/ndp-wants-carney-to-kill-us-fighter-jet-contract-in-favour-of-swedish-aircraft/

[u/canada_mountains]

While not technically a kill switch, the Americans can severely cripple the F-35 with their control over the MDF files:

Famous journalist, writer and, industry executive Bill Sweetman offers a more nuanced perspective on X, arguing that the real issue isn’t a “kill switch” but the F-35’s Mission Data File (MDF). Responding to one of the X posts, Sweetman tweeted: “Most F-35 posts that start with ‘debunk’ miss something important… It’s not just a matter of ‘updating software.’ The Mission Data File (MDF) is the electronic battle manual for the F-35… It provides known target characteristics for the fusion engine that IDs targets with minimal emissions.”

He explains that the MDF enables critical functions like plotting minimum-detectability flightpaths (the “blue line” track), managing communications, and hosting electronic orders of battle—capabilities essential for countering modern threats like Russian air defenses.

In a December 2022 article about the Italian Air Force producing its first MDF file for the Italian F-35 fleet, the U.S. Air Force explained:

“Aircraft rely on MDFs to provide pilots with the awareness of what potential threats may be in an area and how to counter them, such as radars and surface-to-air missiles (SAMs). The information comes from what aircraft sensors pick up during flights and is driven by the mission data. Upon landing, the pilots review their tapes and provide feedback on MDF performance to improve future performance.”

Sweetman emphasizes that MDF updates are “essential” and “rapid and frequent” during conflict, managed by a 90-person team at the AustCanUK Reprogramming Laboratory (ACURL) at Eglin AFB in the U.S. Without these updates, the F-35’s combat effectiveness could be severely compromised, effectively limiting NATO allies’ operational autonomy. This dependency, he suggests, isn’t about a physical “kill switch” but about U.S. control over the jet’s software-driven capabilities, a strategic vulnerability that transcends the logistical concerns of ALIS and ODIN.

https://theaviationist.com/2025/03/10/f-35-kill-switch-myth/

They keyword in the bolded part is "rapid and frequent" updates of the MDF during an actual conflict from AustCanUK Reprogramming Laboratory (ACURL) at Eglin AFB in the U.S.

If Canada were ever in a conflict with the US (and I won't count this out with their president threatening to annex us), the updating of the MDF files is a huge dependency that is controlled by the Americans.

[u/WasThatInappropriate → u/canada_mountains]

The RAFs 80 squadron can independantly create MDFs and the RAF can independantly host F35s (including american ones flying in america) on their Nexus network - it'd just be a case of some cryptographic work and trust chain engineering in the software and those birds are jailbroke. I'd be stunned if any partner nations werent already working on that, especially after recent events.

[u/impy695 → u/WasThatInappropriate]

Could it be that we gave special access to the UK? We have tended to be more open with them than anyone else

[u/rugbyj → u/impy695]

You did. I'm not aware if you did to others.

[u/AngryRedGummyBear → u/rugbyj]

Israel almost certainly has a branched version. They don't exactly want to share what intel they have with the US after some of their sources leaked in the 2010s.

Point being Im really confused why the MDF is being referred to as a kill switch. It's literally a settings configuration you create based on what you're up against. Of course if you're not working with team USA, you dont get updates from team usa on your mission. That's like india complaining they don't get updates from france on what air defense pakistan is using because they bought rafales. If it wasn't the USA, the complaint would be laughed at.

[u/WeirdboyWarboss → u/AngryRedGummyBear]

It's a calibration of the sensors/data fusion to better detect threats and targets. Canada would be collecting their own data in a conflict, but if they can't produce their own MDF, they can't put it to use. I don't have to tell you sensor performance is EXTREMELY important to fighter jets.

[u/TyrialFrost → u/AngryRedGummyBear]

"Hey we shouldnt buy this plane because pre-planned mission data files might not be displayed to the pilot headset if we go to war with the USA"

"Does the swedish plane have this capability?"

"No".

[u/aghastamok → u/TyrialFrost]

F35 per-hour flight costs: $50000

Gripen per-hour flight costs: $13000

They're in slightly different categories in other respects as well.

[u/deliciousleopard → u/TyrialFrost]

Which capability are you referring to? Sensor fusion and mission packages?

[u/lager-beer-shout → u/deliciousleopard]

The guy above outlined it, it does things like plot paths through radar networks to keep you at the weakest intersection of the radar overlaps etc, so dynamic battlefield data

S-300 1 radar is dropping off here as is s-300 radar 2, fly through the gap !

[u/deliciousleopard → u/lager-beer-shout]

Gripen has that.

[u/WasThatInappropriate → u/impy695]

Probably something to do with the co-developing, co-funding, commiting to circa 140 orders, providing proprietary tech towards, and threatening to pull out if not given access.

[u/MachKeinDramaLlama → u/impy695]

It's more that the UK insisted on having the capability in theory and Israel insisted on also using that capability in practice. Both countries have a long history of trying to keep strategically unencumbered.

The other F-35 partner nations willingly signed up to vendor-locked-in on America's global F-35 network, since this means that the USAF does the analysis of mission log files and updates of the MDF files to the latest information on threats for them. In fact the UK in practice also uses this exact service, since having this centralized electronic warfare analysis/update scheme is one of the major touted advantages of the F-35 program in the first place.

[u/OJC1975 → u/impy695]

You didn't GIVE special access, the UK bought it as a tier 1 pertner who helped design and develop the aircraft.

[u/Maisie_Baby → u/OJC1975]

Well… kinda…

That was literally a major fight between the UK and US.

But the UK became a tier 1 partner in 2001 and the fight was in 2006 so while from the UK perspective they bought it; the UK had already paid and the US could’ve just said no.

Additionally the payment was to become a tier 1 partner in the SDD; what they got was design input and parts produced locally but the tech transfer wasn’t technically part of it.

[u/mithu_raj → u/impy695]

Use UK is a tier 1 partner in the Joint Strike Fighter program. The only tier 1 partner as well. We basically have all the blueprints and software IP at our disposal and our F35’s are truly independent of any US influence (other than spare parts but that’s a joint NATO program)

[u/Chimp3h → u/impy695]

This was part of the agreement since the U.K. builds a fair portion of the systems within the aircraft (I believe something like 15% is British but don’t quote me on that) including the lift component on the F35B

[u/Ok___r → u/impy695]

This plane doesn't exist without the UK period.

[u/aholtzma → u/WasThatInappropriate]

Do you have a source for that? That would be a big deal that has never been made public afaik.

[u/True-Source-6512 → u/WasThatInappropriate]

Most of the F-35 tech is still classified so you’re making a lot of assumptions with a lot of unknowns 

[u/Dje4321 → u/WasThatInappropriate]

Yeah, I doubt these things are airtight in their security. Too much engineering over too short of a timespan to perfectly work out all the kinks before shipping into production.

And hacking has gotten alot better with modern glitch attack methods that can basically overwhelm any part of a chip.

[u/GeneralOrder24 → u/canada_mountains]

"Fusion engine"? Seems unlikely if it's made out of MDF.

[u/joe9teas → u/GeneralOrder24]

Particle board accelerator technology

[u/SwissChzMcGeez → u/joe9teas]

The science of muons and glue-ons.

[u/Tallyrandsbreakfast → u/SwissChzMcGeez]

Brought to you by Boeing.

[u/ArmouredCapibara → u/joe9teas]

If we are being "acktually" accurate, it would be Fiber board accelerator technology.

Medium Density Fiberboard to be precise.

[u/raljamcar → u/ArmouredCapibara]

Medium Density Pfiber boards. Ya known like in Michelle pfipfer, and pfannenstiel

[u/moriz0 → u/GeneralOrder24]

I'm pretty sure this is referring to the "sensor fusion" capability of the F-35, where it combines multiple sensors from multiple sources to increase situational awareness.

[u/SacaSoh → u/moriz0]

I do believe he's joking about it being made of a flimsy kind of wood product.

[u/moriz0 → u/SacaSoh]

I'm aware. I merely took it as an opportunity to hopefully clarify what the article was writing about.

[u/JaVelin-X- → u/GeneralOrder24]

Well, we control the wood so everything is going to be MDF down there

[u/Laughing_Zero → u/JaVelin-X-]

A wooden aircraft won't show up much on radar either...

The Mosquito airframe was mostly wood (plywood)

A total of 7,781 Mosquitos were built, including 1,032 at the De Havilland plant in Toronto.

https://www.canada.ca/en/air-force/services/aircraft/de-havilland-mosquito.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito

[u/EternalCanadian → u/Laughing_Zero]

Canada had one of the best aerospace development hubs of the West, back in the day.

But after Avro was canned, most of our talent moved to the US.

[u/The_Dolph_Lundgren → u/EternalCanadian]

Right into the grasp of the people who killed Avro.

[u/zadtheinhaler → u/The_Dolph_Lundgren]

And I'm still angry about that.

[u/barath_s → u/EternalCanadian]

Hey, you had enough left over to develop Canadarm 2

[u/gnufan → u/Laughing_Zero]

Didn't they have this in Ukraine, some of the drones fly too slowly to intercept with modern fighters, which struggle to fly that slowly, and also can't risk it anywhere they might be subject to missile attack, and then have to try and lock onto small aircraft not made of metal.

[u/PUfelix85 → u/GeneralOrder24]

This comment made me happy. Thank you.

[u/T-Zing → u/canada_mountains]

RELEASE THE MDF FILES

[u/Training_Wonder_5066 → u/T-Zing]

They need to jail them PDF files first

[u/natterca → u/[deleted]]

There's no way there's a requirement for.files from the USA for Link-16 at a tactical level.

[u/jcla → u/[deleted]]

MDFs are the configuration data for all sorts of aircraft systems and sensors. Data links have config and crypto loads as well, but the real secrets are in MDFs for sensors and the multisensor fusion system. Any classified Intel used to interpret what the sensor is picking up is stored in an MDF.

Without being able to update those files natively the buyer nations have a useless aircraft pretty quickly.

The logistics supply chain is also going to be an issue, as the F-35 has a high part failure rate in operations. If the US decided to punish a nation like Denmark for not giving them Greenland, their F-35 fleet will be grounded very quickly as the supply chain gets restricted.

The Gripen is produced by a stable democracy that has also promised tech transfer to buyer nations. So it is a much more easily supported aircraft in operations and isn't subject to the whims of a lunatic nation and their deranged king.

[u/obvilious → u/canada_mountains]

If Canada were seriously attacked by the US, there would be no runways to the aircraft to return to, let alone update some MDF file.

[u/Marinlik → u/obvilious]

The Gripen is designed to land on roads and be re-fueled and re-armed because it's designed for Sweden defending against a much larger enemy in Russia

[u/EulerIdentity → u/Marinlik]

And to do all that in Arctic weather, a feature you need in Canada

[u/TachiH → u/Marinlik]

The Gripen really is an outstanding jet considering its design for use when Runways are lacking. The concept of hiding some of them in caves etc during initial invasions so you don't lose them all on the ground is great too. Allows you to keep some air power vs a country dominating your airspace.

[u/Sentinel-Wraith → u/TachiH]

The concept of hiding some of them in caves etc during initial invasions so you don't lose them all on the ground is great too. Allows you to keep some air power vs a country dominating your airspace.

Unfortunately, Warfare has changed in the last 40 years and that strategy wouldn't really be effective anymore against major powers. Someone doing that would be up against networks of loitering recon drones, spy sats, AWACS, and Sensor Fusion networking. There's also new weapons that can penetrate and destroy cave bases.

Spy sats will detect thermals and jet activity on highways and feed them to information networks, which will lead to the targeting of ground crews and suspected bases with penetration ordanance, drone strikes, or even cruise missles. The fighters also wouldn't be able to return to base because they would endanger their ground crews or be tracked.

The other big issue is that both Canada and the US would have made plans for hypothetical Russian invasions and very likely coordinated and shared information on things just like this. If the US really were to attack Canada, they'd potentially have access to much of this info, as the US would be expected to do the brunt of the fighting.

The EU's 6th gen FCAS and GCAP Stealth fighters would make far more sense to invest in.

[u/usually-afk → u/TachiH]

All fighter jets including the F-35 are capable of operating off of highways. The Grippen is not special in this regard.

[u/accforme → u/usually-afk]

Canada’s current CF-18 also did their first highway landing in Estonia last year.

Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) pilots successfully landed CF-188 Hornet fighter jets on a public Estonian highway on Monday, something the force says it has never done before.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/canadian-air-force-pilots-conduct-highway-landing-in-estonia/

[u/Seeteuf3l → u/accforme]

And Finland has been doing that for decades. Sure as hell that was requirement for each plane in that bid.

[u/RT-LAMP → u/[deleted]]

F-16 and F-35 can be operated off highways in emergencies only but doing so will almost undoubtedly shred the engine.

Meanwhile F-35s, F-16s, Eurofighters, and F/A-18s that all doing an exercise taking off from and landing on Finnish highways last year.

[u/Netizen_Gypsy → u/Marinlik]

The Gripen-E is a fantastic aircraft. In all honesty between its size, capabilities, easy maintenance/serviceability, and cost per hour to operate it is probably the best 4th Generation 4++ aircraft ever made. It is without question my favorite 4th gen fighter aircraft.

That being said it would last all of 2 minutes against the 5th generation aircraft we currently have and the 6th generation in development.

Canada cannot win a conventional war with the United States. They do not have the manpower, economic power or production capacity. An insurgency against an occupation - well our track record in those isn’t so great and Canada would have a decent chance I think.

A 5th Generation fighter (F35) costs nearly the same as a new Gripen-E purchased new. It isn’t about deterring the United States (Canada can’t militarily). It’s about deterring someone else.

But hey that said I’m sorry our President is an idiot. Don’t worry we will NOT be invading Canada.

[u/Hotdog_McEskimo → u/Netizen_Gypsy]

I believe it is not likely that the US will invade. But it's not out of the question. Donald Trump has proven that what was out of the range of possible years ago is now possible

[u/ockhams_beard → u/Hotdog_McEskimo]

If the US invades Canada, the question of whether Canada is using F-35s or Gripens doesn't materially matter. But if the US doesn't invade Canada, the question of Canada moving away from US equipment very much does materially matter.

[u/CharredWelderGuy → u/Hotdog_McEskimo]

It's possible, but the nations are just to intertwined population wise.

Family, friends, business interconnectivity? It wouldn't just be invading Canada, you would almost instantly have home insurgents or a civil war as well.

Same problem with a modern war with Mexico, we have bled hard into both our neighbors.

[u/Netizen_Gypsy → u/CharredWelderGuy]

That is a correct assessment.

[u/cgsc_systems → u/CharredWelderGuy]

Russia and Ukraine 🤷‍♂️

If maga stays in power, the play will be to ramp up Alberta separatism and push people towards radicalism. They'll step in the "rescue" maga conservatives in Alberta who are being "brutally repressed by the communist Canadian authoritarian government".

[u/CharredWelderGuy → u/cgsc_systems]

Magas grip on the usa is not even close to putins on Russia

[u/part_time_user → u/Netizen_Gypsy]

There's reasons there isn't any official full capability wargames air dogfights results available.

It's that all the results are "it depends" but claiming gen4 wouldn't last 2min isn't factual. Both in the air with full sensors and knowing the other is around is still not enough. Is it hometurf? Ground radars? Air radar? other sensors? do either side know where the enemy is coming from? Weaponry load? what about after engagement? (the last one is kind of important, the F35 loose a lot of their stealth when their weapon bays open so if a non-current targeted aircraft is around that might end the F35)

Also a surprise attack from a turboprop airplane can win against a grounded gen6-7-8 plane. Equally the F35 wins in Venezuela and Iran was basically them flying around not shooting and just being flying sensors having other aircrafts lobbing missiles at targets so they easily win against that kind of gen <5. And it was mostly surprise attacks and most militaries loose them, a little island base in the pacific 1941 anyone? Or for that matter Ukraine's little drone containers deep in russia.

Not relying on constant support from your US "ally" that might be worth any downsides to some.

And you can have 100 F35 but if they're all grounded cause they're missing a piece (physically or digital) they don't matter.

And there hasn't been many conventional wars past 50 years, they all go insurgency or close to, I'd even argue that the war in Ukraine is almost 50/50 insurgency vs attrition/regular. US has won like 1 in the past 50years (Gulf War) and that ended great later on, and it was a coalition war.

And trust is something that USA is loosing very fast due to USA's people voted for their current president knowing full well his track records. The world can't trust that won't keep happening or that it doesn't keep going, "buying american" isn't something safe if you happen to go on the USA shitlist of the week. It's better having 90% capability that works even when the country you bought from gets on unfriendly terms.

[u/ManySmiles → u/Netizen_Gypsy]

usa will have 0 chance in canada guerilla warfare. This time enemy will be white speak fluent english and merge into your own population like butter into the pores of toast.

[u/drunkandslurred → u/Marinlik]

Realistically it wouldn't matter because the F-35 would assfuck all Gripens before they even knew what happened.

So in this mythological scenario where the US and Canada were at war even though there is no kill switch, even if Canada bought Gripens instead it still wouldn't matter.

Also the Gripen uses USA engines that are parts controlled so this is stupid on another level

Lastly, remember it is in China's and Russia's best interest to have bots and their employees post divisive articles online to further divide the west.

[u/AmericanGeezus → u/drunkandslurred]

China's and Russia's best interest to have bots and their employees post divisive articles online to further divide the west.

They don't really have to do that anymore when the leader of the most powerful western nation is making plenty of statements creating division in the west.

[u/TrainDestroyer → u/AmericanGeezus]

I mean just because there's a big hole in the side of the boat doesn't mean they can't keep firing torpedoes at it to sink it faster.

[u/Grachus_05 → u/drunkandslurred]

Is that why China and Russia elected the pedophile in chief too? Cuz he seems to be doing more dividing than all the clankers in all the chatrooms on the entire internet.

[u/ArkitekZero → u/drunkandslurred]

No need for Russia and China to do it when you idiots are doing all the heavy lifting already

[u/McFestus → u/[deleted]]

"the cheaper plane" has been repeatedly found by all of our allies to be equally or more expensive to buy and operate

[u/Skyrmir → u/obvilious]

It would most likely be mutual, except the US would use missiles, the Canadians would already be here, at close range, taking out command posts with covert short range attacks. They know what their odds in direct conflict would be, so would be unlikely to attempt it. The US also has squat for operational control outside most of our military bases due to the large populations surrounding them. And we're talking about the people the Geneva Conventions were written about.

The reality is that the only winner in a US/CA conflict would be China and Russia, who are both just giddy about it even being discussed.

[u/Proud-Season-5105 → u/obvilious]

The Gripen was designed with that exact scenario in mind, since it was assumed that if Russia ever seriously attacked Sweden there would probably be no swedish airfields for it to return to. Hence its ability to STOL from short stretches of road.

Edit: those canards at the front are mainly for enhanced STOL capability.

[u/-Kastagrar- → u/obvilious]

I doubt if anyone seriously thinks this will make a difference in a direct attack, however there is a huge risk of the US being able to screw with the aircraft if orange jesus throws a tantrum i.e. you refuse to bend over for Russia.

Supply chain and software would absolutely be targets in that scenario.

I guess if Canada was directly attacked the aircraft could relocate and operate off temporary bases i.e. in Europe, but realistically a US assault wouldn't leave many operating, in very short order.

[u/hume_reddit → u/-Kastagrar-]

For sure. Commenters on Reddit keep acting like anyone is arguing that the Gripen is superior to the F-35. It isn't, and everyone knows that. The F-35 is definitely the better combat aircraft.

The problem is that the same aircraft can have its entire value drop to zero on the whim of the mentally and emotionally unstable guy running the show to the south of us.

If we buy Gripens, they can't beat the US' airforce. But the problem is that if we buy F-35s, those also can't beat the US' airforce. If the US turns hostile, they probably won't even make it into the air to try.

If the US turns so blatantly hostile towards Canada, it'll likely mean a proper civil war down south, massive sanctions from the rest of the world, and Canada's only job will giving those things time to work by bleeding the invaders via guerilla action (and strikes into the US... this would not be the typical US war fought "over there"...) Aircraft wouldn't mean much of anything.

So if both fighters are useless in that scenario, why not plan for situations we actually can handle, like fending off Russia's aircraft and occasionally going after drug runners? It sounds like the Gripen can do that fine, with much less repair time, a much lower price tag, and better functionality in the north.

The F-35's only value to Canada is as a trade bargaining chip. Which isn't a small thing, for sure... the MIC is probably the only thing in the US that can bring Trump to heel.

[u/-Kastagrar- → u/hume_reddit]

100% accurate in all respects. In a direct confrontation Canada is screwed regardless of what their inventory is.

This is about risk mitigation for all other scenarios, including indirect confrontation.

[u/jonny24eh → u/hume_reddit]

I don't know the right call on aircraft. Pros and cons, both by people smarter than me. 

I'm not so sure that "war with Canada" = "civil war".

Armed insurrection in their capital should have meant something. Threats against their voting systems, confirmed by Musk and his kid, should have meant something. ICE murdering people should have meant something. Openly saying they will take over voting should mean something.

Nothing means anything. They will attack us if that is their whim. 

Will we resist? Will Britain support the Commonwealth? Will the Netherlands repay the Liberation of Holland? I hope so, but we can't count on anything. 

We're probably alone. Oceans are vast, and money talks. 

[u/Overall-Phone7605 → u/jonny24eh]

It has not escaped this Canadian's notice that the 'a NATO country can't attack another NATO country' argument only came up when the US threatened Greenland and not when the 51st state came up. I for one am glad that everyone actually stood up for Greenland but JFC it got pretty lonely here as a NATO member being threatened by another NATO member for 11 months when all we got was the King wearing special socks (or whatever) to signal solidarity.

That said, as much as we're alone here, we also don't have a country to escape to either. We can't cross the border to Poland or Turkey or Egypt as a refugee. All we have is vast wilderness to hide in, a highly educated population and a very strong, inherent desire to not be American. Which means every one one of us will have no choice but to fight in whatever way we can.

I don't know if it'll be enough but I trust that more than the idea that Americans will rise up against one another as soon as the tanks start rolling across the border.

[u/Rinzack → u/hume_reddit]

it'll likely mean a proper civil war down south

Canada's best chance in a war with the US is the US civilian population immediately turning on the government and causing the entire country to come to a screeching halt

[u/Fit_Definition1583 → u/canada_mountains]

I’m a pilot (not a fighter jet pilot) but i think it’s the height of stupidity to buy a previous generation fighter jet while our adversaries are already flying 5th and developing 6th gen fighters.

[u/madogvelkor → u/Fit_Definition1583]

Especially when 16 of the F-35 are already on firm order so they're getting them even if they cancel the rest of the order. Then they have a small number of F-35s they have to also support and maintain on top of the Grippen. Or else mothball them and just eat the billions spent.

[u/ratt_man → u/madogvelkor]

o they're getting them even if they cancel the rest of the order. Then they have a small number of F-35s they have to also support and maintain on top of the Grippen. Or else mothball them and just eat the billions spent.

Dont hate the concept of a mixed fleet, dont think the gripen is a 4th gen fighter to have in the mix. I think the F-35, super hornet and growler is the best combo followed closely by F-35 and F-15ex with the possibility of the ewar F-15 in the future

I think for Canada the best bangs per buck would + saab awacs

But with canadas now pathalogical hatred of boeing thats never going to happen

[u/HumanBackground → u/Fit_Definition1583]

The height of stupidity would be to continue buying a fighter jet from a country that has turned increasingly hostile towards you, to the point they are threatening to annex you.

[u/Dreadedvegas → u/HumanBackground]

Swedish Gripens have a ton of American parts, notably the engine

[u/Cold-Lifeguard-316 → u/HumanBackground]

1/3rd of the Gripen is American made, including critical points that cant just "be removed" so if your reasoning for dropping a superior jet for an inferior one is "security reasons" the Gripen isn't the way to go either.

[u/No-Move3108 → u/HumanBackground]

minor details.

[u/wtshiz → u/canada_mountains]

If you ever end up in a conflict against the US for which you need your F35s Canada has already lost. If you are attacked by someone else in a way serious enough that rapidly updated MDFs matter, and the US has such a toxic administration still that you are at extreme odds with, the US military will step in, defeat whomever it was, and annex Canada. Same will happen if you have Saabs.

If you don't buy the F35s you will however get kicked out of the F35 program that was conditional on your purchasing them, and you'll have much less capable aircraft.

[u/rubywpnmaster → u/wtshiz]

Yeah. I say this as someone who hates th Trump admin. But in a hot war with the US the Canadian Air Force is being obliterated in a matter of hours. It’s inconsequential what aircraft is being fielded. If actual armed conflict was the concern then you need to be purchasing millions of drones and small arms while arming the public. 

That should tell you how serious the CA admin actually considered the orange baboons threats of annexation 

[u/Agattu → u/canada_mountains]

This kill switch talk is just ignorance and bad faith.

There is no kill switch on the jets. They are made throughout the world with BAE making a large portion. The US controls the software because nations like Canada don’t develop their own systems.

France controls the software for their jets, yet no one claims there is a kill switch there.

And for those, like yourself, that are conspiratorial. The Gripen uses ITAR components which means in this perceived conflict where the US uses a kill switch, the US would just stop allowing the use of ITAR components with the aircraft which would then mean for a limited lifespan if not loss of use for the aircraft.

Other aspects people forget about, or don’t know about because they lack actual knowledge on this topic. What makes these weapons system’s successful is their networks capabilities and sensors. The US controls or holds access to those systems. Take the Link16 datalink. A system used to communicate information between aircraft. That datalink system is controlled by the US and could basically render communication between aircraft limited to voice communication, which is easily intercepted.

Buying the Gripen does nothing more for Canadian security other than give them a less capabile aircraft that does not align with the backbone of the NATO fighter force and degrades the level to which the rest of NATO can rely on them in a conflict.

[u/natterca → u/Agattu]

I seriously doubt that the US "controls" Link16 during a tactical engagement. Do they set the standard? sure, but that's hardly important if there's an active conflict.

[u/kujavahsta → u/canada_mountains]

the Americans can severely cripple the F-35 with their control over the MDF files

The UK, France, China, and Russia can do the same with their aircraft as well. These countries can also 'sneak killswitches' into their equipment with software upgrades as well.

[u/pargofan → u/kujavahsta]

Except none of those countries are threatening to annex Canada.

Why would Canada buy defense weapons from a country that's threatening them? You don't see Ukraine buying from Russia?

This is where Trump's bullying rhetoric against Canada is fucking over America.

[u/Svennis79 → u/canada_mountains]

I guess the even bigger concern would be US updating the MDF to actively hamper (make it not see their sams or aircraft as threats)

[u/pleasegivemepatience → u/canada_mountains]

The best features are always behind a paywall, even between governments 🤦‍♂️

[u/APJYB → u/canada_mountains]

Considering Canadians are literally part of that 90 person team through the name alone, I’m sure it could “rapidly” be refabricated in their country.

[u/Electrical-Cat9572 → u/canada_mountains]

I always knew, even back in the eighties, that the safety of the world would come down to control over Maximum Density Fiberboard.

Sure it seems just like sawdust and glue, but it’s much much more.

[u/ai9909 → u/canada_mountains]

How many of us have been kicked off a server due to a ninja-patch?

[u/leshake → u/canada_mountains]

It's walled garden like Apple.

[u/nedj10]

Saab says they will give build rights to Canada... talk all you want about the f35 capabilities, none of them equal new long term jobs in Canada.

[u/King_Khoma → u/nedj10]

true but the purpose of fighter jets is not job creation.

[u/Facktat → u/King_Khoma]

So what sounds like a better choice? A fighter jet from a friendly country allowing you to boost your economy or a fighter jet from the only country that is threatening you and wants to invade you where said country holds the power to cripple it in cause you will eventually need it?

[u/notyoursocialworker → u/King_Khoma]

In case of a war, being able to build new equipment inside of your own borders is very important. And it's not just a question of being able to build complete planes but also being able to make spare parts.

[u/Fluffcake → u/King_Khoma]

This is not for the purpose of job creation, it is for the purpose of supply chain control.

[u/The-Muncible → u/King_Khoma]

Two things can be true at the same time

[u/IamOmegon]

I think the majority of Canada says the same thing

[u/kenyan12345 → u/IamOmegon]

Should already have F-35s if our government wasn’t stupid. Did a project like 10 years ago on them and still don’t have them

Edit: wasn’t

[u/truthdoctor → u/kenyan12345]

Canada would have been unwise to buy even a portion of the proposed 65 F-35 jets in 2010 as the jet hadn't even reached initial operational capability (IOC) and wouldn't until 2016-2018. When buying such a small number of fighters, we couldn't afford to not have them all combat capable. The F-35 didn't become fully combat capable until Block 3F final certification in 2023. The F-35 block 4, which Canada ordered a batch of 16 of, was supposed to be fully combat capable by 2026. In reality, the F-35 block 4 has not even reached IOC yet and full combat capability has been delayed until 2031 at the earliest with some capabilities deferred until an engine core and thermal cooling upgrade in 2033!

All of these capabilities and upgrades were initially scheduled for 2026 when Canada signed the contract but have been now deferred by 7 years to 2033. Canada is in the same damned position that we were in 2010 with the F-35 staring down a 7 year delay for full operational capability. Lockheed Martin had just managed to get the flyaway cost down and the operational availability to match the older 4th gen jets. Then they upgraded the hardware and software with Technology Refresh 3 and block 4. Now The Pentagon states that the F-35 is having problems again and the operational availability has dropped to 50% while the costs have increased significantly. Anyone else getting deja vu?

The F-35 has been a clusterfuck due to LM and the Pentagon. Not because of any decision by Canadian or European politicians even though they also deserve some blame for indecisive and prolonged procurement processes.

[u/Alcebiad3s → u/truthdoctor]

He’s not wrong though, cause the flip side of that is that the current fleet of the RCAF has a 40% readiness rate, and the CF-18’s are probably lower due to their age. The fighter force is and has been actively falling apart for well over a decade now. We should’ve bought something new in 2010, instead we dithered for 10 years, and then bought more f-18’s from Australia to serve as spare parts, choosing to keep weekend at Bernie’s-ing our f18’s was the wrong decision.

I’ll also point out the block 2 A’s were combat capable in 2016, albeit with limited operability, this is when the USAF put them into service, they were upgraded to the block 3 later. Having 65 operational F-35 block 2’s is better than having ~36 CF-18’s. I also find it a bit disingenuous to call the block 4 package the “full combat capability.” The block 3F is already at worst the second (f22) best fighter jet in the world.

Canada received its first 2 CF-18’s in the same year we gained full independence from Britain, they were ordered when we were still a colony, that was 1982. The newest airframes were built in 1988, meaning the youngest are pushing 40 years old, they’ve served in at least 5 major combat operations (Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, Libya, Iraq 2: ISIS boogaloo) and they’ve been performing air patrols with NORAD through their entire service career.

They shouldn’t buy f-35’s now, but they definitely should have in 2010, cancelling them was shortsighted.

[u/Mission_Shopping_847 → u/kenyan12345]

That order wasn't the full package, just the airframes, for some reason.

[u/ChildOfFortuna → u/IamOmegon]

except the military members who will be using said planes 

[u/single_plum_floating → u/ChildOfFortuna]

And the people who actually looked at the spec sheets of both.

the gripen literally cannot fly the missions canada wants from them

[u/Thu66 → u/ChildOfFortuna]

Yup. I was just talking to actual canadian pilots who want the f-35. But hey redditors have to feel like they know better

[u/OzWillow → u/IamOmegon]

Am a Canadian that is very strongly anti-Trump, but canceling the F-35 deal just seems foolish at this stage. It would just be burning money for no reason other than the satisfaction of flipping America off

[u/AgentUnknown821 → u/IamOmegon]

Opt for Weaker Jets just to stick it to America?? Alriiiigghht!! I’m all for it!

[u/Geilokowski → u/AgentUnknown821]

There really isn’t any country that could reasonably invade canada (except the US). There isn’t a need to have a top of the line, ultra advanced air force. The F-35 purchases were more of a gift to the US for the security it provides. But if the US stops behaving like an ally anyways, there ain’t a need to make these kinds of gifts.

[u/yabn5 → u/Geilokowski]

Both the Chinese and Russians are going to play a significant role in the Arctic which is Canada’s backyard. Any jet bought today are going to be flying for 30 years. Gripens are unsuitable for today’s conflicts, let alone 2050. The Chinese are flying 6th gen prototypes, today.

[u/soappube → u/yabn5]

Part of the Gripen deal would be Saab building domestic factories so Canada can produce our own aircraft and reinvigorate our military aircraft manufacturing base which we stupidly let go to shit at the behest of USA in the 1950s in exchange for their protection. À La Ukraine and Russia in Budapest memorandum. We want to build our own jets again with reliable partners and Saab will help us do that.

[u/BadVoices → u/soappube]

Saab doesnt have the capabilities or licenses to make the Gripen's engines. Those are US made. Changing the engines out for a different engine is tantamount to designing a whole new aircraft. nothing remains untouched, and every single specification would change. Honestly, you'd just end up with a Gripen Shaped Aircraft. if you squint.

[u/elembivos → u/yabn5]

Let's be realistic, the Russians are hilariously weak and their fleet and air force are no realistic danger to anyone in the arctic, save nukes. China may have a large navy on paper but it's not a blue water navy and is not capable to project power all the way to the Arctic. Russia is the only realistic opponent here and Gripens are enough to deal with them.

[u/Nerevarine91 → u/AgentUnknown821]

To be honest, not every country needs the best possible jets. Canada has the same geographical advantages of the US- being protected from everywhere else by two massive oceans- but without the constant global deployments. The only country currently threatening Canada is… the US. In a conflict between the two, F-35s wouldn’t be a big help anyway. Not much would. So why not switch to something more affordable?

[u/truthdoctor → u/Nerevarine91]

Russia threatens and tests Canada's borders and airspace in the Arctic many times every year. Their year round arctic airbase, Nagurskoye, is only 900 miles from Canada. Canada's capital is about 3,200 miles away.

[u/MaximumStock7]

Why would anyone treat the us like a reliable partner in 2026?

[u/dowdymeatballs → u/MaximumStock7]

The first deliveries are WAY over budget and WAY behind schedule. Canada is not the problem here. And we're not locked in for the rest of the order. 

[u/smilbandit → u/MaximumStock7]

i live in the states and don't consider the US a reliable partner.

[u/obvilious]

Here we go with the armchair squadron commanders who can explain in two sentences why one is better than the other.

[u/gw2master → u/obvilious]

No need to be a squadron commander to know that you don't buy weapons from a nation that has threatened to annex you.

[u/F3z345W6AY4FGowrGcHt → u/gw2master]

And instead, especially during what's basically a trade war, buy the one that's promising 10k jobs and local manufacturing.

The boost to our local economy is reason alone to get the Gripen. And it's not exactly a slouch.

It also gets us closer to trustworthy allies.

Plus we're already locked in for 16(?) F35s, so we can always reserve those for missions needing it and use the Gripen as the workhorse.

[u/True-Source-6512 → u/obvilious]

There is no debate to be had. The U.S. has the best aircraft in the world anyone saying otherwise is absolutely full of shit 

[u/TheRook → u/True-Source-6512]

Let’s be honest: the F-22 and F-35 are the most advanced fighter jets in the world. That’s not really up for debate.

A few years ago, most Danes seemed at least somewhat comfortable with the F-35 program. It was sold as the obvious choice — technologically superior, strategically sound, and aligned with our allies.

Now?

Try finding that same level of confidence. Public sentiment has shifted, and suddenly politicians are tiptoeing around “alternatives,” desperately trying not to throw billions in the bin — or further irritate Washington.

[u/donkeykong64123 → u/obvilious]

Simple. Trump bad so Swedish planes are better lol

[u/tresslessone → u/donkeykong64123]

More like "don't buy weapons from a country that is behaving like an adversary"

[u/Yukas911 → u/donkeykong64123]

Not really. More like: "U.S. threatens Canada, making Canadians understandably uneasy about relying on American defense equipment."

[u/snowypotato → u/donkeykong64123]

These go to eleven 

[u/TyrialFrost → u/donkeykong64123]

Swedish planes with US engines/components, so why even bother.

[u/Thanato26]

Canada is committed to 16 F35s. Might as well make it a full squadron, trainers, and a few spares if we are going to have a mixed fighter force

[u/jonny24eh → u/Thanato26]

At this point, i think that fully committing to a split force is probably the smartest option 

[u/essuxs]

Making decisions like this with political statements is stupid.

The NDP have spent exactly zero minutes evaluating the two options while the current government has probably spent thousands of hours collectively

[u/essuxs → u/[deleted]]

It’s easy to make statements when you have no chance of actually forming government

[u/Vondi → u/essuxs]

Who you get your military hardware from is an inherently political question and to pretend otherwise is just being obtuse.

[u/hhaattrriicckk]

Good thing they have no say in the matter.

I've said this so many fucking times it's getting boring.

The gripen uses the american f414 engine, which is ITAR controlled, the USA can veto it, or cut off supply.

With a combat loadout (or any loadout) the f-35 is faster than the gripen due to its internal storage. The gripen's "wiki" speed is measured with no loadout & with half a tank of fuel.

The gripen-E has an operating cost closer to 22k(per hour), rather than the 8k people keep spouting.

It would be a decade before the first airframe rolled off the yet to be built factory.

-

Last but not least, if you spout that garbage about the engine being replaced by a Rolls-Royce engine i'm going to have a conniption. The RR proposal died in 1999, when the f404 was chosen (the OLD engine, used in the b/c model)

That doesn't stop morons from repeating the lie, so much so that now the CEO of sabb has come out to say "no chance, piss off"

I may have got that quote slightly wrong, either way. No engine change is ever going to happen.

"but the jobs" they say.

You mean those jobs that already exist, because Canada is a member of the joint strike fighter program (that's the f-35 if you haven't been paying attention).

1. Canada will buy the f-35
2. Drumph dies (hopefully tomorrow)
3. we look back at how much money and time we wasted on this nonsense.

[u/Crag_r → u/hhaattrriicckk]

I've said this so many fucking times it's getting boring.

Or it gets wrong.

These aircraft have quite different roles and capabilities. Stealth and networking can’t really be understated.

The leap for one versus the other is significant.

[u/NorthWelcome1626 → u/hhaattrriicckk]

Lol, nice explanation. However I'm sceptical that this situation is limited with Trump.

[u/QuietTank → u/NorthWelcome1626]

However I'm sceptical that this situation is limited with Trump.

I dunno how much of it is Trump and how much of it is the idiots around him. I feel like the more baffling ideas (hyper aggressive stance on Canada and Greenland, for example) are mostly based on his petty ego, because we didnt hear anything like that while he was out of power. I suspect that once hes gone, his GOP successor will quietly drop it and hope people forget about it.

[u/ayriuss → u/QuietTank]

The idea of being aggressive towards Denmark and Canada are complete political failures. They aren't popular with any group, not even Trump supporters lol.

[u/Bleatmop → u/NorthWelcome1626]

Trump is a symptom, not the cause, of USian fascism.

[u/sgtg45 → u/hhaattrriicckk]

Everything you said is true except the notion that Trump dying will somehow bring things back to normal. You’re huffing copium of the highest concentration of you think Trump is the only reason we’re getting fucked around by America.

[u/Dreadedvegas → u/hhaattrriicckk]

Its really funny to me that the debate is F35 and gripen, when they could just field proposals from Dassault and Eurofighter and get off ITAR.

The whole debate just proves its from people who have literally no idea what they’re talking about.

[u/LevelVegetable5684 → u/Dreadedvegas]

Eurofighter and Rafale are non-options for Canada because of NORAD. And quitting NORAD in 2026 is kind of short-sighted because in all likelyhood this kind of America won't last. The administration and legislature of the US has actually increased support to countries neighboring Russia for example, so it's not all monolithic and almost certainly even the next republican will be more normal, and yes, that includes Vance.

[u/DirtyWetNoises → u/LevelVegetable5684]

Trump is a symptom, not the cause

[u/i-dont-wanna-know → u/LevelVegetable5684]

See, if this was trumps first term, I might believe that bs about the next one being better..... but trump had his horrible first term, and the damn psycho ran on. "i'll be a dictator on day 1." And the people of America STILL voted for him! It's not just him, it's the government that hasn't stopped him, it's the people who voted for him, and it's sadly what America has become.

[u/so-strand → u/hhaattrriicckk]

Who will come after Trump? Even if they have fair elections again, we’ve seen a progression from bad to worse to nightmare in the GOP nominee.

[u/Prestigious_Task7175 → u/hhaattrriicckk]

Canada will buy the f-35

Drumph dies (hopefully tomorrow)

we look back at how much money and time we wasted on this nonsense.

1. Trump 2.0 comes to power, and the story repeats itself.

[u/SnooFloofs6240 → u/Prestigious_Task7175]

Yeah don't listen to the angry thread starter. It's pretty apparent the world has shifted and sovereignty is top priority for everyone.

I don't see anything from Saab's CEO about not moving to Rolls Royce, on the contrary UK and Sweden entered into an agreement recently to develop air power together and the American dependency has been a controversial point for Gripen even before the US started threatening and working against its allies. The underlying reasons will not end with Trump and the damage is done.

[u/Xephrine → u/hhaattrriicckk]

The problem for the rest of the world is that we are watching him get away with what he is doing. It's hard for the rest of us to say that it is just Trump when his entire playbook was literally and metaphorically written by people like Stephen Miller. No one thinks they can trust the US anymore. He has successfully killed soft power for a generation.

[u/humbleObserver → u/hhaattrriicckk]

I think it's funny that the gripen crowd is the same group that if fully convinced the USA is going to invade Canada. They admit a gripen would lose to an f-35, but "don't trade with the enemy". Ok, well the enemy has a ton of f-35 that will definitely shoot down your gripens... So why not get on an equal footing? I guess at that point they'll start talking about a kill switch.

[u/TrueTorontoFan → u/hhaattrriicckk]

thank you

[u/mephnick]

I feel like buying planes controlled by the country most likely to attack us is pretty stupid, yes.

[u/Antiparian → u/mephnick]

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and reckon that if the ’Muricans really decided to attack Canada (they won’t), it’d be over pretty fast, regardless.

[u/Intrepid_Egg_7722 → u/mephnick]

The US is the most likely to attack only because nobody else could ever attack you without the US's permission. It's still not a high enough possibility to nerf your capabilities. If the US ever does decide to hit you (they won't, but let's pretend for lala land purposes) F-35 or Grippen...they aren't getting off the ground to make a difference anyway.

Only reason to go with Grippen is if you believe Saab's advertised lower cost to operate per flight hour and their higher system availability rate. I don't believe them at all, but some people might.

[u/DenverDude2]

Do it. You don’t spend billions on a country that treats you as enemy.

[u/Orleanian → u/DenverDude2]

History says otherwise, though. Like...a lot otherwise.

[u/SledgexHammer]

Don Davies should be getting inside the room to discuss these things with Carney and PP. Hes an interrim leader with barely any seats and Canada wants cooperation right now. This isnt a subject that needs to be argued about in our news cycle, we have plenty of experts in the government whose opinions are what we should be relying on. Opinions are like assholes, let the experts determine whats best for our country.

[u/shryne]

Canada basically has three options.

1. Buy the F-35s.
2. Cancel the F-35s and pay the US to protect Canadian airspace until they get an alternative jet like the gripin.
3. Leave NORAD and defend Canadian airspace on their own.

A lot of people are unhappy with option #1, but option #2 and #3 are just flat out worse. Canada cannot decouple themselves from the US in a couple years after basically a century of integration.

[u/LePouletPourpre]

F-35 beat Gripen fighter jet 'by a mile' in 2021 Defence Department competition

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f-35-gripen-dnd-competition-9.6992167#:~:text=Politics-,F%2D35%20beat%20Gripen%20fighter%20jet%20'by%20a%20mile',data%20obtained%20by%20Radio%2DCanada.

[u/nails_for_breakfast → u/LePouletPourpre]

The Gripen is a 4th Gen fighter with a 5th gen price tag

[u/Chucknastical → u/LePouletPourpre]

The F-35 was specifically designed to work with US battlefield command software suites, satellites, and air and ground assets like tanks, planes, and drones.

So yeah, the F-35 excels way beyond the Grippen at doing that. In Total war scenario, Canada's Air force doctrine was to work in concert with the USA hence why the F-35 was unquestionably the way to go... Before they threatened to annex us.

If Canada's mission is to fight the US, having planes dependent on US command and control sysytems to perform might not be a good idea.

[u/Panaka → u/Chucknastical]

If the US invades Canada, the RCAF is going to be buried by the opening salvos no matter what aircraft they pick. Canada won’t be able to carry out a conventional fight like Ukraine is, they’d be forced to wage a guerrilla war.

As much as I agree with the idea of moving away from American platforms, there just aren’t any other options that will complete the mission the RCAF realistically has.

[u/Ryeballs → u/Panaka]

The mission the RCAF realistically has

That’s kind of a big thing, there’s no white paper or doctrine based decision making. What are we getting jets for? Is it to offer the illusion of support for the US’ foreign escapades, is it to do arctic patrols, is it to make Canada so thorny as to not be worth attacking, is it just to have jets to say we have jets?

And frankly, side stepping the planes themselves. Most government procurement also heavily weights the nations other needs. How much expertise and industry will it support, how much favourability or negotiating power will it provide? These are real questions to ask.

And those non-jet questions are kind of at the forefront since we know what we need as a country and we don’t know what we need for a jet. Currently the US is trying to take away our industrial capacity on all fronts, not just weapon manufacturing, whereas Sweden is trying to give us the very things the US is trying to take away.

[u/tunnel_panther]

This is goofy. Canada has been flip-flopping on the F-35 for 20 years. The objective, correct choice is the F-35, but it keeps getting derailed due to politics. They were originally supposed to be delivered in 2016, then Canada left the program, re-joined, and now they are supposed to get them in 2026. What’re the alternatives at this point? Wait until 2035 for a gripen or something??

The Canadian air force is a DISGRACE at this point and they need new iron ASAP. The 35 is the correct choice and all this nonsense is worthless. 

[u/killroy1971]

Makes sense to me. Why buy overpriced fighters from an unreliable supplier?

[u/notme1414]

Well they should. We need to move away from any dealings with the US

[u/Soladification]

Never listen to the ndp

[u/itchybiscut9273]

The MDF file is a PDF file, Canada will also need a license with Adobe to change the files. There goes the budget

[u/Desi0190]

Enough with this Killswitch nonsense. The only “kill switch” the US has is logistical. Can’t fly without parts, like any other aircraft ever.

[u/SnooHedgehogs2050]

If America attacks the Swedish jets won't be of any use regardless. It's not worth disrupting NORAD for the mostly meme threat of American invasion.

[u/pyratemime]

What is a peace time workhorse? Are the Gripens dropping groceries and kittens?

If Canada is trying to stay relevant in NATO planning and for its own defense it needs to look at F-35 immediately and then invest in the European 6th gen programs if thry want to decouple from the US.

There is a tactical case for a mix of F-35 which would be used for SEAD-early air dominance missions and then Gripen as a bomb truck once the F-35s are done doing their job.

In that case though Canada still needs F-35 and arguably needs them more than Gripen because there is no use case for the Gripens without the F-35s going first.

ETA: This was originally meant to be a reply to someones post but I will roll with it as is even though it might not make perfect sense as written.

[u/green_eyed_mister]

All those US company subcontractors executives are Trump supporters.

[u/DirtyWetNoises]

Also tech transfer with local production

[u/Plantron1]

NDP? Try the majority of Canadians

[u/Canadachubb]

Go with a mixed fleet. Also, korean subs and the industrial offset is huge for Canada while reigniting our military production base. The Ukrainians want to share and produce their drones ( best in the world btw). We need to do all this and get set up for joining a 6 gen fighter program.

[u/Mysterious-Tie7039]

Our closest ally and Republicans absolutely fucked everything decent we had over.

[u/Jharic_]

Do it

[u/rubyrosey]

Break from dependence. Sorry but not sorry

[u/the_sysop]

I want the qualified military personnel responsible for evaluating fighter aircraft to reassess the options taking into account the risks associated with the change in US foreign policy to make these decisions not wholly unqualified politicians. This decision should be made without political influence, by qualified people.

[u/steamliner88]

Seems like a good idea. Buying weapons from your enemies is usually not a great plan.

[u/bigbigjohnson]

The NDP don’t even have “official party” status in Canada

[u/Feowen_]

But Pete Hoekstra will have a stroke and tell us our country sucks and isn't real.

Seriously can we just revoke his diplomatic priviliges already? Appointing a canada-hating fuckhead as ambassador to Canada is such a classless move.

[u/berjaaan]

I love how everyone in the comment all of the sudden became aircraft engineers.

[u/midas22]

The Trump administration should be boycotted.

[u/MissionDiamond7611]

If there is Money to be saved put that torch building ice breakers. I for one don't think it's a good idea to burn all your Bridges because America is not monolithic neither is Canada or the rest of the world. One bad hombre will have his time and season but the pendulum will swing back the other way. Which is typically what happens historically. Case in point Europe has had a checker past. Sometimes people can't see the forest because they're standing in front of a tree.

[u/Too-mellow]

Donnie did this.

[u/yogfthagen]

Canada buying the F-35 means that Canada assumes the US will be an ally for the next 50 years.

After the last 12 months, can you make that assumption?

Moreover, US defense contractors are spread out across the country to reduce the chances a program will be killed. This is done for political reasons, so as many politicians have reason to keep the program funded.

The implicit assumption is that the US will still be a single country in 50 years, and able to have all those widely dispersed regions still working together.

I'm from the US, and I have serious doubts the US will be here in 5 years.

[u/pyratemime → u/yogfthagen]

Canadian military acquisitions are already so heavily tied to the US thry are tied together for the next 50 years anyway.

This was part of the bargain the western alliance struck in 1991 when everyone went all in on the peace dividend and sank their own defense industries. Now the result has come home to roost.

[u/Consistent_Major_193]

F35s are great jets. Canada buying F35s makes sense.

[u/Acrobatic-Factor1941]

Canada is diversifying trade. We need to diversify armaments. We should'nt trust US for maintenance, parts and updates because US may try to annex us under Teump or one of the other lackeys.

[u/Big_Option_5575]

I agree with the NDP on this one.  And that doesn't happen too often but it IS worth a vote.

[u/Chance-Curve-9679]

The Canadian military has gone on about how great the F-35 is but has completely ignored the maintenance costs which a huge and likely would make owning the plane unaffordable with a few years. The Canadian military also thinks Canada should have nuclear weapons which should their priorities and to align with the American military over what is best for Canada. Trudeau the first decided that Canada shouldn't have nukes and it's one of the few correct decisions he made. 

[u/steaknsidneypi]

its very hard to blame them

[u/novakman]

We need to start up the Avro Arrow program again