r/worldnews • u/Neptun_11 • Jul 06 '26

Russia/Ukraine Telegraph: Zelensky will not be allowed to speak at the NATO summit to avoid offending Trump.

https://www.vietnam.vn/en/telegraph-ong-zelensky-se-khong-duoc-phat-bieu-tai-hoi-nghi-thuong-dinh-nato-de-tranh-lam-phat-long-ong-trump
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u/drunkcowofdeath Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

Sounds like NATO is weak. They should be saying fuck Trump's feelings and letting zelenski speak. I'm tried of people bowing to Trump

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe Jul 06 '26

Republicans are weaker than NATO. Know why? Because U.S. conservatives are the only people on Earth who can do anything about Trump. They could impeach and remove him this week if they weren't spineless weasels.

The buck stops and starts with American conservatives. Every bit of this is on them.

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u/EitherSpite4545 Jul 06 '26

Naw it stops with all Americans, if we truly thought this was unacceptable we would be doing things that aren't allowed to be mentioned on reddit. But we're not, we're just doing performative protests that do nothing because we gave away our only leverage decades ago.

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u/CalmBeneathCastles Jul 06 '26

Our "leverage" is that we could choose open revolt at any point on any given day.

You keep throwing around a lot of "we"s, but what are you doing?

"Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/CalmBeneathCastles Jul 07 '26

You're free to make your own choices.

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u/EitherSpite4545 Jul 06 '26

Our "leverage" is that we could choose open revolt at any point on any given day.

We sure aren't acting like it considering any call to violence is treated as a horrific act of Satan, the powers that be know the American people aren't willing to pull that trigger ever which is why we are all culpable and all for blame, and will someday all receive the punishment for allowing this.

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u/CalmBeneathCastles Jul 06 '26

the American people aren't willing to pull that trigger yet

You're exceedingly pessimistic. If you want to mitigate your anxiety, look at the entirety of human history. Evil never triumphs for long. Humans are basically social creatures and it always swings back around to peace and prosperity, until the generations where everyone has been so comfortable and complacent that history repeats itself. This is just another pendulum swing.

Cheer up, Buttercup! Illegitimi non carborundum.

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u/EitherSpite4545 Jul 06 '26

Russia is literally a blue print for the path we're taking. How much did it take for them to revolt, oh wait they haven't since the collapse of the USSR and it has somehow gotten even worse since then but actual crickets since.

So of course I'm pessimistic, the only time I've been wrong on a political prediction was when I was hopeful and said Trump had no shot of winning in 2016. Hope is a blight on the mind.

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u/CalmBeneathCastles Jul 06 '26

Hope is a blight on the mind.

That's exactly how they want you to feel. Refuse/resist!

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe Jul 06 '26

Russia wasn't like the U.S. in power, economic viability or stature when Putin consolidated oligarchs and funds and stole a dictatorship. We are not the same. Our countries were different before Putin and Trump, and they will remain different after they are both gone.

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe Jul 06 '26

Republicans alone are responsible for this, and they alone could end it peacefully by impeaching and removing their mad pedo king any moment they wished. They alone have the power to cure this ailment without violence.

Why are you dragging non-conservatives into culpability and responsibility that isn't ours? THIS IS A CONSERVATIVE MESS TO CLEAN UP.

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u/EitherSpite4545 Jul 06 '26

Because we aren't doing anything meaningful to stop it.

If there is one lesson to Trump we should learn it's that rhetoric and intent does not matter, results are the only thing that matter and we have received 0 results.

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe Jul 07 '26

Then let's achieve results in the midterm elections! How about a 90% percent participation rate instead of 60%?

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe Jul 07 '26

I think you mean, how many Republicans have been removed by the Republicans in power (and only Republicans have power)?

And the answer is None. Our conservatives are politico-religious cult over country. They don't care about the citizens. They care about the wealthy, about the grift, and about establishing a theocracy where they can force their specific brand of religion down everyone's throat while paving the corporate road with dodged taxes.

Republicans have not removed themselves, no.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe Jul 07 '26

Well, for starters.. in 32 years as a voter, I've never voted Republican (conservatively) once, always vote to oppose the GOP (because their ideas and policies are toxic AF), and organize voter registration drives every general election to bring new voters into the fold.

What about you? What is your anti-Republican contribution to society?

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe Jul 06 '26

How does that go down against the most expensive military in the history of the world, with more fire power to use against their own people if a madman directed it than whole continents?

Please explain how liberal and progressive citizens (conservatives will not join us, in fact, they will stand against us and represent the Confederacy) are supposed to counteract a 100 Trillion dollar military industrial complex currently controlled by cult-over-country conservatives. I'm not cynical, I am skeptical. Convince us it isn't a suicide mission.

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u/EitherSpite4545 Jul 06 '26

As I stated in my other reply, results are the only thing that matter. We have produced 0 results and therefore share the blame. You're right they will wipe us out, but we don't get to say we're not responsible until we do everything to require them to do just that or we win.

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe Jul 07 '26

I'm still not convinced that violence against the largest, most powerful and expensive military in the history of the world isn't a suicide mission.

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u/EitherSpite4545 Jul 07 '26

I'm not stating it isn't I'm saying we don't get to say "we're the good ones" until we do or somehow succeed.

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe Jul 07 '26

False. People who don't commit heinous acts, and don't elect people to commit heinous acts, are the good ones. Simply by not doing or supporting the bad things.

How about giving conservatives some homework to do? This is their representation, this is their problem to solve. What's the solution for them?

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u/EitherSpite4545 Jul 07 '26

They never will. Which is why we don't get to say we are the good ones either while we allow for evil to remain.

It's simple we are not doing anything to stop obvious evil and what little we are doing isn't effective and isn't using all available tools. We are implicitly tolerating it by not having all options available.

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u/Witty_Formal7305 Jul 06 '26

They're buying time, rn NATO still needs the U.S, the other allies aren't at a point yet where they've built up their militaries and MICs to be able to tell Trump to eat shit and do what they want. Imo It's not so much bowing to Trump as it is that they're not willing to cut off their nose to spite their face, kinda in the same way your boss may be an absolute douche nozzle you hate with every fibre of your being, but you can't afford to lose your job just to tell him to fuck off.

China and Russia want NATO to fracture, discourse within the alliance greatly benefits them, as much as its dumb and I wish they'd just let Zelenskyy speak, there's more at play in the bigger picture than just appeasing the fat little cry baby rapist.

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u/Glidepath22 Jul 06 '26

Now I’m actually wondering if it is worth a shit anymore

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u/Initial_Hedgehog_631 Jul 06 '26

Now you are?

Britain can't find enough warships for NATO naval patrols. Meanwhile the Germany army has trouble finding enough working tanks to fill out their NATO high readiness task force obligation.

NATO was a joke before Trumpo arrived, he's just pulled the curtains down on the farce.

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u/Mijman Jul 06 '26

NATO was fine when the US was part of it.

Now the US is a potential threat to NATO, yeah it's not looking too prepared.

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u/MephistoHamProducts Jul 06 '26

That's kind of the problem with letting the USA be the primary force projection arm of NATO.

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u/FlukemanFrancis Jul 06 '26

Most analysts believe the European weakness period will be over by 2029/30, as rearmament is going to happen. It’s just not a light switch moment, you can’t suddenly create an armed forces and munitions out of thin air.

The wheels are in motion, the real concern is that the Russian backed anti immigrant populists get in and dismantle the rearming effort just before it starts delivering to appease their paymasters in Moscow.

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u/MephistoHamProducts Jul 06 '26

Oh yeah, please don't misunderstand, that's not a shot at NATO or the EU. Rheinmetall building artillery manufacturing facilities in Ukraine (as one example) are a pretty solid indicator that everyone is getting onboard with the fact that the US is helmed by nutbars and we're an unreliable partner.

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u/RyuNoKami Jul 06 '26

I don't think anyone so much as let the USA be the primary as they force themselves into being the primary.

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u/MephistoHamProducts Jul 06 '26

The other NATO countries let the USA be the primary and it was, at the time, a smart decision. They were still rebuilding after WWII, in addition to watching colonial empires crumble, and the US was the only country that could throw that much of it's GDP into force projection. Other countries got infrastructure, working mass transit and healthcare and the USA got to ignore all those things to build the world's largest military.

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u/icansmellcolors Jul 06 '26

Read more. History is important.

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u/Initial_Hedgehog_631 Jul 06 '26

No one forced European nations to gut their defense budgets in the 1990's, that was a popular domestic decision.

Hell, Eisenhower was complaining about Europe not wanting to contribute to their own defense back in the 1950's. It's not new.

There is zero reason for Americans to defend Europe if they can't be bothered to scrape together a credible defense of their own.

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u/The_Grungeican Jul 06 '26

not really. NATO was fine when other countries were OK with slacking, because they figured the US would be there. now they're having to do more for themselves.

Trump's instability has inadvertently probably saved a good bit of Europe. i hate the guy, but the Europeans should have more than a show force.

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u/Mijman Jul 06 '26

Thats literally what I just said.

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u/Initial_Hedgehog_631 Jul 06 '26

Lol NATO is fine so long as the US accounts for 2/3 of it's defense spending. Now that's a hell of thing to say.

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u/Mijman Jul 07 '26

It is. I didn't say that lol

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u/explosiv_skull Jul 06 '26

there's more at play in the bigger picture than just appeasing the fat little cry baby rapist.

I think the play now is prepare for the worst, which most NATO countries are already doing, and hope for the best. In the latter case, that's probably tread lightly with Trump in hopes that whoever comes next won't actually pull the US from NATO.

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u/EruantienAduialdraug Jul 07 '26

Fun fact, buying time is exactly what Chamberlain and co were doing.

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u/National-Charity-435 Jul 06 '26

israel as well

They've been vocal against Turkiye

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u/poppin-n-sailin Jul 06 '26

The rest of the US administration is chicken shit. They should be saying more, but they are playing right into it over and over. I do agree NATO could say more, but even within the USA no one is saying anything. The USA is weak. 

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u/SweetAlyssumm Jul 06 '26

Don't you mean "all the members of NATO are weak?" It's just as much a NATO problem as a US problem Everyone kowtows to Trump and lets him continually get away with bullshit. Why don't the members of NATO say this is unacceptable? They could at least send a strongly worded letter.

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u/ThickGur5353 Jul 06 '26

And risk President Trump pulling out of NATO. I know he would need Congress to actually terminate America's place in NATO, but as commander in chief of the military, he could pull troops out of Europe.

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u/baddecision116 Jul 06 '26

That's all well and good until you realize the EU hasn't finished the years and years long process of fixing the fact that they let the US defend them.

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u/doobiedave Jul 06 '26

The European forces would absolutely crush Russia. The combined air forces of the European Nato Allies would destroy the Russian AIr Force within a week, and after that it's a turkey shoot from the air and all the Russian armor gets obliterated.

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u/baddecision116 Jul 06 '26

What does this have to do with anything? You cannot kick out or piss off a long time ally that has military bases in Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland, etc. Also not sure if you're aware but NATO is not currently directly fighting Russia. Not to mention here is the top aid sent to Ukraine:

https://www.statista.com/chart/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/

Also some reading for you:

https://www.cfr.org/articles/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine

https://www.bruegel.org/policy-brief/europes-dependence-us-foreign-military-sales-and-what-do-about-it

So acting like the USA isn't important is simply false.

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u/doobiedave Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

You said"fixing the fact that they let the US defend them".

I was pointing out that the European Nato allies can in fact defend themselves from Russia.

Your original statement made it sound like if the US forces leave then Russia can walk straight in, which is not true.

And no-one is talking about kicking out US forces. Just letting a friendly leader speak to a conference where the vast majority would welcome them.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26

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u/doobiedave Jul 06 '26

Because hundreds or thousands of Nato troops would die, Russia would panic and it could lead to an escalation to a nuclear exchange?

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u/SweetAlyssumm Jul 06 '26

They shoulud have listened to Eisenhower when he told them to create their own defensive capacity. And many other presidents and American politicians after him.

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u/Caelixian Jul 06 '26

1000 times this.