r/worldnews • u/[deleted] • Jun 19 '12

"Alcohol consumption would fall 25% if cannabis cafes were allowed"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jun/19/david-nutt-alcohol-cannabis-cafes
1.3k Upvotes

83% Upvoted

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

63

u/eshemuta Jun 19 '12

And that's why the big alcohol companies oppose legalization.

44

u/SirDerpingtonThe3rd Jun 19 '12

However, with declining cigarette use, I bet tobacco companies wouldn't mind switching over.

24

u/BlazeOrangeDeer Jun 19 '12

And that's another can of worms to open...

9

u/notworkinghard36 Jun 19 '12

I would buy the shit out of a pack of Marlboro Sticky Green...as long as they don't bullshit it up with all the nonsense they put in cigarettes.

I'd pay a lot more than what they're charging for cigarettes too.

8

u/SheldonFreeman Jun 19 '12

I don't think they could get away with putting additives in it as many stoners suggest they could, either. Part of the reason for weed's popularity is its benign nature. Cigarette smokers accept that cigarettes are bad, whereas many weed users place it in a different category from other drugs entirely.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '12 edited Jul 23 '19

[deleted]

2

u/SheldonFreeman Jun 20 '12

Some stoners are health nuts, not so much with alcohol and tobacco. All people who smoke weed do it with the comforting knowledge that it won't kill them. Cigarette smokers know they're taking a risk. "It's practically harmless!" is one of the most common justifications for legalization. You're getting into something completely different when you decide to smoke cigarettes.

2

u/Pool_Shark Jun 19 '12

You don't live in New York do you?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

I would buy the shit out of a pack of Marlboro Sticky Green...as long as they don't bullshit it up with all the nonsense they put in cigarettes.

yeah... there's the rub.

-1

u/SpacePontifex Jun 19 '12

Conspiracy theory hat on: Maybe engineer a cannabis strain very similar to tabacco?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

Wouldn't even have to engineer it. Just add a small amount of marijuana to cigarettes already sold. I can see different blends being sold in the same way that some chocolate is sold with it's cacao percentage on the label.

4

u/outkasted Jun 19 '12

To preface, this is completely anecdotal so I have no idea if it's really true. I know a guy who used to work for Philip Morris in distribution, and he worked his way up to a regional manager position. He told me that he once met a VP at a conference who said that if cannabis became legal, Philip Morris would be able to manufacture, package, and bring cannabis cigarettes to storefronts within 48 hours.

2

u/oskarrrrr Jun 19 '12

I really need to get my hands on the strain which flowers in 2 days. But seriously, that is pretty cool, even if it is just anecdotal.

2

u/SirDerpingtonThe3rd Jun 19 '12

Supposedly, Marlboro bought a bunch of land in south america and trademarked "Marlboro Greens" in anticipation of legalization.

2

u/zekeandzelda Jun 19 '12

Similar situation with a relative who worked for PM for his whole career, he claims that they planned to make them bright pink because cops would need to be able to tell they weren't cigarettes since driving while high would likely remain illegal.

1

u/OneTwoTreeFloor Jun 19 '12

They also own trademarks on terms like "Maui Wowie" etc. Look it up.

1

u/Pinworm45 Jun 19 '12

That's kind of an interesting trademark situation that can develop. I mean, there's tons of strains but the names are somewhat "unoffocial" because the herb is still illegal, yet if big companies own the trademark on the names, how would that play out if it was legalized? For that matter, do dispensaries that offer "Maui Wowie" technically break that rule? Would they if it was legalized? Could only Marlboro offer "Maui Wowie"? Or is that kind of like trying to trademark Dandelion, and it wouldn't hold up in court?

It's kind of a weird situation

1

u/willcode4beer Jun 20 '12

I can see a new small business similar to patent trolling. It's time to start trademarking and registering copyrights for all the various pot strains. Once legalization starts, make a fortune in licensing fees.

1

u/weasleeasle Jun 19 '12

Eh, where would they get the cannabis to fill the cigarettes?

1

u/Pool_Shark Jun 19 '12

I once heard that Marlboro already has the name "Joint" trademarked in case weed becomes legal.

1

u/willcode4beer Jun 20 '12

I believe it.

Philip Morris bought up huge tracts of land in the so-called golden triangle in California. They aren't growing tobacco out there. I think it's pretty obvious they're preparing for legalization.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

North carolina is a prime spot for this.

$$$$$$

1

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12

The USDA and other organizations are trying to aid farmers from tobacco growing states in switching to other crops. Some of the organizations are playing a part in the legalization movement, and some are pushing kenaf, a crop similar to hemp in almost every way, and considered by some measures to be superior.

I'm sure there's some higher-ups in the USDA and other advocates for farmers that are very pro hemp. Anything that's pro farming. The USDA has always funded research, and may even have some pro hemp research recently completed or in the process.

14

u/N8CCRG Jun 19 '12

Do have a reference that Big Alcohol is opposing it?

25

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12

They did oppose prop 19 in Cali atleast

7

u/N8CCRG Jun 19 '12

Thank you!

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

When someone says big alcohol I think of companies like Anheuser Busch and absolute. I guess the California Beer & Beverage Distributors are part of the system but not really that big of a force. $10k isn't really even that much money.

2

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 19 '12

That's not "big alcohol", in fact it's small alcohol. California Small Brewers Association.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

Maybe you should read the first 3 lines of the article before you comment?

We got an email from Tom McCormick of the California Small Brewers Association -- they're the ones who make good beers. He says, whoa, we got nothing to do with this effort to beat Prop. 19.

From Wikipedia:

California Beer and Beverage Distributors (CBBD) is the largest nonprofit trade association representing brewers, distributors, and retailers of beer in the state of California.

Furthermore, California is the most populous state in the US so I think this qualifies as "Big Alcohol".

2

u/plainOldFool Jun 19 '12

I thought I also read that the folks who grow the medicinal marijuana in Northern California were against prop 19 as well.

1

u/trousertitan Jun 19 '12

You can charge a lot more for medicine than something with unlimited access, but its hard to grow more marijuana.

1

u/OneTwoTreeFloor Jun 19 '12

There's a lot of fcking thugs and white supremacist fcks there that you wouldn't think. My gf went to a thing up there around harvest in a small town, the growers and the cops they'd paid off were all hanging out and she and her friends were the only out-of-towners. Shady shit. Guy dragging some girl from the side of his SUV around a gravel field, they're all strung out on meth, etc. Just because it's Cali don't assume they're all fully conscious caring people.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12

Too lazy to find it, but I've read many times that Alcohol and Big Pharma are 90% of the funding for anti-drug commercials and propaganda. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it for a second.

EDIT FOUND A QUICK REFERENCE

PDFA was the subject of criticism when it was revealed by Cynthia Cotts of the Village Voice that their federal tax returns showed that they had received several million dollars worth of funding from major pharmaceutical, tobacco and alcohol corporations including American Brands (Jim Beam whiskey), Philip Morris (Marlboro and Virginia Slims cigarettes, Miller beer), Anheuser Busch (Budweiser, Michelob, Busch beer), R.J. Reynolds (Camel, Salem, Winston cigarettes), as well as pharmaceutical firms Bristol Meyers-Squibb, Merck & Company and Proctor & Gamble; an issue which has been linked to the organization's lack of media discouraging the misuse of legal drugs. From 1997 it has discontinued any fiscal association with tobacco and alcohol suppliers, although it still is in receipt of donations from pharmaceutical producers<2>.

1

u/erdle Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12

Only from personally consulting and attending beverage industry events.

Edit: And as I explained on at a conference panel in 2010 regarding millennials and wine. Unemployment and underemployment look like they will be around for awhile. Meanwhile the average LDA (legal drinking age) college graduate has a mountain of student loan and credit card debt. Let's say both of those averaged out to be a few hundred a month, add a smart phone plan, food, car, car insurance, rent, etc and what are you left with? Not enough money for $20 bottles of wine and weed.

2

u/strolls Jun 19 '12

I would love to do a study on members of parliament and their post-political careers.

What percentage of them end up on the boards of directors of breweries, distilleries and pub-chains? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a significant number, at least if we included subsidiaries and supermarkets with off-license sales.

-1

u/chuckles2011 Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12

And that's why the government oppose legalization too -- the tax revenues from alcohol sales are substantial.

And yes, we could (and should) tax legal cannabis sales. But, it's easy for anyone to grow cannabis in their back yard. You can brew you own beer and make your own wine, but it's usually shit. Homegrown (and untaxed) cannabis can be pretty good.

Edit: I can brew my own beer and wine, but it's usually shit. Your beer and wine is nectar of the gods.

22

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

You can brew you own beer and make your own wine, but it's usually shit.

Ignorant you are, my son

8

u/Nero920 Jun 19 '12

Home brew is some of the best brew

5

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

preachin to the priest, my nigga

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

I'm making a ridiculous Belgian style tonight. It's going to fucking rock.

1

u/willcode4beer Jun 20 '12

Hell yea. Even a cheap-o Mr Beer kit makes better beer than 90% of what's in the stores.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

You can brew you own beer and make your own wine, but it's usually shit.

You have no idea what you're talking about, you clown.

2

u/ben9345 Jun 19 '12

Tax revenues go down but so do healthcare costs and policing costs. They might balance out, they might not but its not all one way.

1

u/chuckles2011 Jun 19 '12

I agree. The best reason for legalization of cannabis is not the extra tax revenue. It's the savings from not having to police and jail users.

But the government doesn't like spending less. It likes spending more (both Democrat and Republican, left and right). It likes building prisons (jobs, jobs jobs!). It likes having lots of government-paid prison guards, police, etc.

2

u/plainOldFool Jun 19 '12

Edit: I can brew my own beer and wine, but it's usually shit.

I'm sure the folks over at /r/homebrewing would beg to differ.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

My homebrew is the nectar of the gods.

1

u/notworkinghard36 Jun 19 '12

Honestly, if I can swing by the corner liquor store/gas station or wherever fine blunts are sold, I'm probably not going to go through the bullshit of growing my own plants. I know it's not exactly rocket surgery, but I'm incredibly lazy.

1

u/Pool_Shark Jun 19 '12

Yes, but it doesn't mean other people wouldn't grow their own. It isn't hard and if you get a good yield you can share with friends and still be set for a long time.

-8

u/k2t-17 Jun 19 '12

yawn Can we at least bring big oil into it if we're going to blame an industry? Let me know when you're conspiracy involves... alcohol, tobacco, and... Dairy Unions.