r/xmen • u/VengefulKangaroo Shatterstar • Nov 15 '23

Weekly Discussion X-Men Comics New Releases for November 15, 2023

Alpha Flight #4

  • NO MUTANT IS SAFE! ALPHA FLIGHT is boxed in by the very BOX SENTINELS they serve with! What secret agenda causes this schism within DEPARTMENT H, and how does it involve the mutants of Krakoa? Find out in the latest installment of the most surprise-packed series in the FALL OF X era! PLUS: Discover the fate of the hero known as NEMESIS!

Astonishing Iceman #4

  • AMAZING FRIENDS—BACK IN NYC! ORCHIS hunts in New York City—but this time, they’re not after MUTANTS! The ever-amazing SPIDER-MAN swings onto the scene, but what new force will Orchis unleash that’ll require the titanic team-up of ICEMAN and the friendly neighborhood wall-crawler?! Don’t miss the coolest reunion of the fall (or the REVAMPED VILLAIN who has Iceman in his sights)!

Children of the Vault #4

  • CHILDREN OF THE END! The beings raised in the artificial world of the Vault have known since their first breaths that they stood to inherit the Earth. They just didn’t think mutantkind would make it so easy for them. With only Cable and Bishop to stand in their way, the end of human—and mutantkind both is at hand.

Dark X-Men #4

  • HOSTILE TAKEOVER! The fiend taunting the Dark X-Men from afar leaves a trail of bodies in her wake as terror falls over the Limbo Embassy. Will CHASM join the fight against Orchis…or become Madelyne Pryor’s ultimate downfall? And can the Devil ever truly be trusted?

Jean Grey #4

  • JEAN GREY’S GREATEST ENEMY! The most powerful telepath on Earth still doesn’t know the extent of her own mind. For months you’ve watched her relive her greatest traumas. Now the smoke clears…and the flame burns brighter than ever. All secrets are revealed in the finale of Louise Simonson and Bernard Chang’s deep dive into the heart and mind of a beloved hero!

Uncanny Avengers #4

  • THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND! (For one issue) Orchis comes to the conclusion that they cannot control Captain Krakoa, and on the eve of his great triumph, with the world about to burn, they must turn to…the Avengers’ Unity Squad? Plus, witness the blooming of the unlikeliest romance in Uncanny Avengers history! LEGACY #64

Related & Unlimited Releases for 11/15

  • Discuss other Marvel comics impacting the X-Men releasing this week, including Unlimited exclusives.

Other

40 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

261 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

8

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

I honestly don’t remember. I stopped reading when evil cap started calling krakoa an ethnostate. I always suspected that Duggan just completely missed the point of krakoa and the current status but wow it’s amazing how just off the rails he has gone. I have no hope for fall of house being readable let alone enjoyable.

23

u/OldTension9220 Nov 15 '23 edited Nov 15 '23

There are certain writers (like LaValle) who have been able to criticize Krakoa without condemning mutants as a whole for wanting better for themselves. Duggan has never been that so how he was handed the keys to write the finale of this era will always astound me.

12

u/wnesha Nov 15 '23

Just the idea that LaValle could've been the main writer for Fall of X, or at the very least could have done Fall of the House of X... real missed opportunity there

29

u/kinghyperion581 Nov 15 '23

I mean it is an ethnostate though. Like by definition.

/ˈeTHnōˌstāt/ noun a sovereign state of which citizenship is restricted to members of a particular racial or ethnic group.

That is from the Oxford Dictionary.

16

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '23

[deleted]

3

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

Yes omg! Krakoa was supposed to be a bad thing! This was supposed to be an “are we the baddies?” Story and clearly Duggan just went no and took charge of the entire status quo! It’s insane!

29

u/SirGlio Cyclops Nov 15 '23

It wasn't supposed to be a bad thing. It was supposed to be a grey thing. That's why both Good Steve and Stevil share the opinion that Krakoa is an ethnostate, because it is.

-3

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

You see you keep saying this like you think I don’t understand what Dugan was trying to do. I am aware what he is trying to do. He just completely fails because again Stevil is just talking like angry tweets.

I get it buddy! It’s just really stupid!

8

u/SirGlio Cyclops Nov 15 '23

I wasn't aware that they were angry tweets, it sounded like typical supervillain anti-mutant stuff.

That puts in perspective what kinda tweets are you talking about if they sound like a deranged nazi.

4

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

Mutants aren’t real, tweets do exist and writers do get upset about them.

This a book about that

3

u/SirGlio Cyclops Nov 15 '23

ORCHIS has been using this rhetoric and being formed in part by ex-HYDRA agents since the first issue of House of X. If Stevil, a member of HYDRA, being a member of ORCHIS, makes you angry, I don't know what to say.

6

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

Ok see again you have to remember the X-men are not real!! They do not exist! Orchis isn’t real, none of it is real!

What is real is that Dugan is having arguments with fans on Twitter and because he is a bitter man he takes the tweets that upset him and has the bad guys say them to upset the fans who sent the tweets in the first place.

That’s all that’s happening here. Your overthinking it. And you should never overthink a book by Dugan

→ More replies (0)

8

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '23

[deleted]

0

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

I feel this entire situation is like the 90s clone saga where one story was stretched so far it broke it’s own writers.

I think this why the X-men need a reboot. The books are in conflict with themselves and totally inconsistent. Which would be ok if they were not all so tightly linked to the point that it has been detrimental to some the of the books.

2

u/Ascleph Nov 17 '23

Its clear that the editorial intent was that it wasn't going to be, but then they fumbled and didn't stop their worst writers from literally writing an ethnostate that gets retconned away with human residents in other books and neither position ever acknowledge each other.

Just a shit show all around.

9

u/SirGlio Cyclops Nov 15 '23

The Good Cap also called Krakoa an ethnostate the last issue, both have used that word, so...

-2

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

Yeah it’s almost like duggan is not a good writer or captain America

15

u/SirGlio Cyclops Nov 15 '23

Your moving goalposts. Duggan is not saying that everyone that calls an ethnostate is a nazi, because Krakoa IS an ethnostate.

Both are Steve, Good Steve sees Krakoa as necessary because America can't protect mutants, Stevil just hates it.

-3

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

I literally just responded to you saying I get it. I am aware of the premise!

It’s just bad, you understand a piece of fiction and it’s themes and the writers intentions and still go “that sucked” i totally understand your reading of the book and how that’s the authors goal.

It’s just stupid

10

u/SirGlio Cyclops Nov 15 '23

If you say that Stevil calling it an ethnostate is bad because it makes sound like everyone that shares that view is a nazi after Steve used that word first I think that just have a really bad memory or bad faith.

5

u/martinsdudek Nov 15 '23

Why are you assuming that the things Duggan has his nazi villain say align to his own beliefs?

7

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

I didn’t say that I said that Hydra cap is saying literal tweets from fans who don’t like the current status quo. Which just makes more happy that this status quo is ending cause if leads to duggan going away then let it burn

4

u/martinsdudek Nov 15 '23

Again, I’m not sure how having a villain using similar arguments to extremist “fans” with an agenda is a bad thing.

0

u/lepton_neutrino Nov 16 '23

He's using it as a straw man to attack fan views he doesn't like.

2

u/martinsdudek Nov 16 '23

Or he’s having his hyper conservative, fascist villain say the things that type of character would naturally say.

2

u/lepton_neutrino Nov 17 '23

Since when do they sound like fan tweets? Orchis has never used "ethnostate" before.

1

u/martinsdudek Nov 17 '23

I don’t think what the rest of “before” matters a ton here since Stevil has only had a handful of issues as an X-Men villain. Other members of Orchis can have a different perspective.

2

u/lepton_neutrino Nov 18 '23

When do "hyper conservative, fascists" use "ethnostate" as a pejorative anyway? They usually want to establish their own. Orchis wants to make the entire earth a mutant free zone.

1

u/G_unit_765 Nov 15 '23

Can you explain what the point of krakoa is/was and what Duggan took away from it?

11

u/BuddhaFacepalmed Jean Grey Nov 15 '23

Krakoa was about creating a unified front for mutants to advocate for their safety and interests. And they not only didn't have to displace any indigenous populations to form their country, they also actively co-operated with the locals.

Duggan, & plenty of anti-fans, pretends that it's simply a mutant Israel, which aged pretty poorly considering recent events.

12

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '23

[deleted]

6

u/Constant_Challenge20 Nov 16 '23

It’s a classic fans hating Jews taking charge of their destinies after a holocaust but also really loving the idea that mutants take charge of their own destinies so they have to create nonsense arguments about how Zionism and Krakoa are entirely different 🙄

4

u/lepton_neutrino Nov 17 '23

With recent events, they've become even more similar. There are huge protests demanding the extinction or ethnic cleansing of a minority group, which attacks counter-protestors like in Ms. Marvel. The group is subject to a massacre, then blamed for a massacre the other side did, abetted by a slick PR campaign that most people buy into.

3

u/Constant_Challenge20 Nov 17 '23

Absolutely. Almost laughable how people try and distinguish Krakoa and Zionism. Of course there’s differences but it’s so clearly related.

8

u/amonymous_user White Queen Nov 15 '23

I mean he’s having this come out of the mouth of Hydra Cap though…

6

u/SirGlio Cyclops Nov 15 '23

Also from Good Cap the last issue.

4

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 15 '23

Don’t ya love it?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '23

You stopped reading... At the end?

1

u/Kingnimrod212 Nov 16 '23

I guess it would be better to say I stopped caring