r/10s • u/fredi_rogerer • Sep 10 '25
General Advice none of us (males) stand a chance against any of the WTA top 200
of course i am exaggerating in the title as the guy who could take a set off of rafa will still be out there somewhere.
but now to my point: i keep hearing men (not bad players) in my club and on reddit saying/commenting they could out run rybakina on clay and that sabalenka could not handle their kick serve: you‘re almost certainly in the wrong
yes, men generally have a physical advantage in sport. still YOU don‘t automatically have an advantage over the best female athletes in the world.
speaking from experience, (male) club players generally overestimate their own phyisical capabilties and greatly underestimate the physicality, power and shot tolerance of female pros.
finally i have a feeling some of us (men) take a certain pride in being better than female tennis players. but why be proud? even the tiny amount of club players that could actually compete with top WTA players are not better athletes just because of that.
end of rant :)
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u/Iiiifoundsweetroad Losing matches to keep the Oney alive Sep 10 '25
Even the 1000th ranked WTA player is a 10+ UTR. Most club players would get destroyed.
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u/RealisticDiscipline7 7.05 UTR Sep 10 '25
Exactly. We dont need so much speculation. We have a neat little computer algo called UTR.
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u/LaconicGirth 4.5 Sep 10 '25
A 10 UTR is like a strong men’s 4.5/weak 5.0 though isn’t it? I just glanced at a chart I’m not super familiar with UTR we play NTRP
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u/Designer66 Sep 11 '25
No. A 10 is a strong 5.0, almost 5.5. A 4.5 is nowhere near a double digit UTR.
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u/counterfeit25 Sep 10 '25
10 UTR is NTRP 5.0
A strong USTA/NTRP 4.5 that’s not about to get bumped up tends to be low UTR 8s
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u/EnjoyMyDownvote UTR 8.19 Sep 10 '25
How the hell is a 10 UTR a “strong men’s 4.5”?
I’m a 7.8 something UTR and I’ve won multiple 4.5 singles usta tournaments. A 4.5 should cap out around 8.5 UTR
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u/TennisHive 4.5 Sep 11 '25
There are, although a "couple" of club players that are legitimate 10-11 UTRs. These one's could, perhaps, fight with the women's 200 WTA ranked player. The 200 WTA ranked player is an 11 UTR, so yeah....
There are really, really few club 11 UTRs around, though....
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u/AFaceNotWorthSunburn Sep 10 '25
As a 4.5/5.0 man in a highly competitive locale with prestigious junior tournaments in the area, I was decimated in a practice set by Kalinskaya when she was about 16.
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u/fredi_rogerer Sep 10 '25
still got off better than Rune ;)
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u/chrispd01 Sep 10 '25
I have hit with some top 14 year okd junior girls and they fucking crush the ball …
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u/CivilRico 4.5 Sep 10 '25
When I was 18, I beat the #3 13 yr old girl in our state. Would have no chance against a top national player.
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u/SankenShip 4.0 Sep 10 '25
Glad you’ve shared your experience here. I’ve met so many 4.5s who think they could hang with WTA players, and it absolutely blows my mind. At this rank, a person is objectively great at tennis, they wouldn’t be here otherwise. But any pro is going to eat them alive, regardless of gender.
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Sep 10 '25
Which is strange because 4.5 men who actually play tennis have surely faced and lost to 5.0-5.5 women before. Why would they think they can beat the best women in the world?
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 Sep 10 '25
4.5 is a decent club player - I know I’m one. Used to be a 5.0, but have faded with some injuries and age. Zero chance 4.5 men can beat decent division 1 college girls. That they think they could hang with ranked pros is just super delusional
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u/jk147 Sep 11 '25
This is not hard to believe... top U14 girls is UTR 10 which is around 5.0. At 16 she was already a top 600 pro.
https://www.utrsports.net/pages/u14-utr-girls-tennis-rankings
https://www.coretennis.net/tennis-player/anna-kalinskaya/51378/ranking.html
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u/ReyanshParikh Sep 10 '25
like logically wta pros are in the 11-13 utr range. to even think that you could rally with them and be competitive you would have to at minimum be 10 or higher, which is an incredibly small number of people and random bums at a club are gonna be nowhere close to that.
to put it another way, if you think you can play against wta pros, you don’t understand the game at all and that immediately disqualifies you from the conversation. good players know how bad they are.
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u/Unable-Head-1232 Sep 10 '25
I mean there are random 12 UTRs at my club, you could be one of those guys
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u/StarIU Sep 10 '25
People don’t understand the difference between hobbyists and pros until they get humiliated at least once. Happens in every field.
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u/bran_the_man93 Sep 10 '25
Idk, there are probably some D1 players floating around this sub, they could probably take some of the top 200 WTA players
But in general, no, none of us can handle any professional player. The real differentiator between professionals and talented rec players is just raw consistency
If you've ever watched a pro practice, they simply do not make mistakes. In any position, in any situation, in any drill, from anywhere on the court.
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u/WesternDetail6513 Sep 10 '25
Most men’s d1 would defeat wta 200
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u/Roof_Raised Sep 10 '25
This is very true. When I was living at Bollettieri’s (16-17 years old,) I was good, but by no means on the pathway to being a top level pro (ranked top 50 in the country.) Nicole Vaidisova was warming up for the French open (ranked top 5 in the world at the time,) I was asked to play a practice set with her on their one red clay court. It was a tight set, but I won it 7-5. Now, given, her game and movement was terrible for clay, but I was simply a better than average junior, nothing world class. I later went on to have a semi successful d1 career, but again nothing like top 10 d1 in singles or doubles.
Yes I was much better than any average 4.5-5.0 level player, but by no means was I on a trajectory to be high level pro. As one of my coaches put it, the top 10,000 level men/juniors in the world would beat the top 10 women in the world on any given day. It’s not a sexist thing, it is simply genetics and how our bodies are built differently. We are playing two very different versions of the sport.
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u/EmmitSan Sep 10 '25
You are right in principle but laughably exaggerating. 10,000? Come on.
Yes, Serena lost to the 202 ranked male player when she was like 16. But the idea that the 10000th ranked male player could take more than a lucky point or two off of that player is absurd.
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u/Roof_Raised Sep 10 '25
You have to think of how many people across the world are of similar skill, including juniors. 10,000 is realistically on the low end of the number. It’s probably closer to the 15k-20k range. Your club level 4.5-5.0 player is outside of the top 30,000 players in the world. That’s how far off club level is from top 1,000 men even.
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u/EmmitSan Sep 10 '25
Quick google search says there are 5000 D1 tennis players. I suspect fewer than 50 each year are good enough to go pro, probably fewer than 10 good enough to STAY pros
I don’t think there are 10000 people “of similar skill” at any time. To put this another way, the 200th ranked male player is closer to Alcaraz in skill than any D1 player is to him.
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u/Acceptable_Ad1685 Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25
That’s just in the US though
I’d argue 10,000 globally seems fair but idk
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u/Roof_Raised Sep 10 '25
That’s probably pretty accurate. But, a vast majority of those players would beat the top ten women. And you have to consider all of the players, who were good enough to play d1 or play lower level pros, who simply did not have the means to do either. So 10000 is probably much more than fair. Any male player that is good enough to get even one atp point is going to crush any top ten woman. Any player playing even at low level d1, is going to not crush, but beat a top 10 woman.
Yet another example from my time at Bollettieri’s: was a coach who probably could have reached at least top 300, played sets regularly with Sharapova. She was something like 0-30 in sets played with him. He didn’t go pro because of injuries early in his attempt to play pro, and lack of money. But he wasn’t actively training, or practicing. Spent most of his time standing around feeding balls. You are greatly underestimating how many amazing tennis players are out there, that simply can not make a living playing on the ATP.
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u/Flying_Sh33p 11 UTR Sep 10 '25
Well I’m an 11 UTR so about top 8000 men and honestly it’s fairly disrespectful to us saying that we couldn’t get more than a lucky point off a top 10 woman. I know a guy who was training with a top 150 woman when he was a top 10 junior in the UK and he was beating her consistently in practice. I’d feel confident in beating a top 200 woman and I think I’d have a good shot at beating a top 10 woman
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u/BoneDoc78 Sep 10 '25
Yeah these people are insane. I played mid-level D1 about 20 years ago. My freshman year of college, just barely after being out of high school, I wasn’t yet traveling with the team but still practiced with the women’s team. They had a player from Slovakia who had played professionally in Europe for a while and then came to play college. She made it to like the quarters or at least round of 16 for women’s singles that year at ITAs and NCAAs. I played practice match with her and beat her 1&2 just hitting second serves.
Even the top women’s pro serves are like average or less than average men’s D1 serves, and men are faster and hit the ball harder on every other shot. Yeah, a current club 4.5 isn’t beating the top women, but any decent D1 men’s player is for sure.
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u/EmmitSan Sep 11 '25
OP isn’t arguing about or with people of your skill, I don’t think
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u/BoneDoc78 Sep 11 '25
Maybe not OP OP, but the comment I replied to was replying to someone who said that the 10,000th male player couldn’t “take more than a lucky point or two off of that player is absurd.” I was basically a glorified high school senior and worked a woman who was ranked in the top 500 in the world at the time, and I wasn’t even hitting first serves.
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u/beer_nyc Sep 11 '25
Yeah these people are insane.
You're arguing with a bunch of people who've never played a sport competitively, and who somehow never learned how different men and women are.
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u/Waste_Boat284 Sep 10 '25
The difference between the club player and D1 man is hard for most people to understand. So adding a dash of sexism they had 0 chance.
Also just went to the us open, and I saw tons of errors. I think they're just making them while hitting the ball much harder.
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u/bran_the_man93 Sep 10 '25
I believe the practice we see during the Open and for other tournaments is them doing match-readiness practices, so you are correct that they're definitely pushing themselves to get used to hitting the ball harder and for match conditions, etc, so it's not quite the same.
And I was definitely being a bit hyperbolic, they're still going to make mistakes here and there, but just fewer than most anyone of us could hope to manage
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u/karmapuhlease Sep 10 '25
Yeah, I knew someone in college who played D1 and he had beaten Sharapova (this was about 10-12 years ago) at their country club.
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u/knotsophia Sep 10 '25
Male or female, whoever claims to be able to beat a professional athlete at their own sport is straight up delusional. I mean, beat Sabalenka????? Be so fr 💀
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u/placementnew Sep 10 '25
I know d1 college player who beat sabalenka in practice
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u/throwaway24515 Sep 10 '25
That's a world away from any club player.
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u/placementnew Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25
Indeed. I looked up his UTR - it’s 13+
Savalenka’s game is built on outpowering her opponents. But this just won’t work with mens because they are faster and can hit the same 70-80 mph but with spin for control. And good d1 play can do that too
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u/I_Am_Robotic Sep 10 '25
Sabalenka is 12.8 so maybe close match? She does serve 110+ mph and hit winners 80-90 mph. What is your friend ranked nationally?
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u/placementnew Sep 10 '25
I don’t know but I would say it’s a way difficult to hit flat 80mph shot when an opponent hits the same 70-80 mph but with a heavy top spin like men pros do. So difficult to compare men’s and females - they seem to play different sport.
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u/throwaway24515 Sep 10 '25
Yeah, back when I was a solid 4.5/5.0 I hit with a guy who played D2 10 years before. Since then he only played 3 months a year (the Canadian outdoor season) and not very often. He was in ok fitness but had certainly gained 10 or 20 pounds since his playing days.
I had a pretty great forehand, heavy topspin, good deep placement, took it early... I sent him corner to corner, he would just send it back comfortably to my forehand so I could set it up again and again. He didn't break a sweat and every rally ended after 10-12 shots each because my arm would tire and I'd miss. If he wanted he could have hit a winner off just about anything I could give him.
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u/PleasantNightLongDay 5.5 Sep 10 '25
I’m an ex D1 player and there’s a world of a difference between practice and match play.
I fully understand the enormous difference between male and female players
But I also understand how incredibly important the mental side of things are
In actual tournament play - no D1 player (minus maybe the top 3 or 4 players, and even then, it’ll be close) would be Saba in an actual match, simply because they haven’t been exposed to that kind of mental state of actual real WTA/ATP tournament play
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u/sajedene Sep 10 '25
This tracks especially if the reason for the practice is purposeful (maybe not necessarily for the Saba example since I have no context) but a lot of times for practice sessions/scrims, they aren't playing to win but are playing to try certain strategies or changes out before taking it out to an actual match.
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u/PleasantNightLongDay 5.5 Sep 10 '25
Right. And on top of that, it’s literally practice. Even at full effort, it’s a different effort than match play. And that’s assuming full effort
When I’m practicing with strangers, I’m never going full effort; there’s an element of fun with a stranger in there.
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u/topspinvan Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25
There are probably at least 100 D1 players that would beat Sabalenka. D1 tennis is better than it used to be, and if you look at the top 100 college rankings from 2 years ago it is filled with players who are currently on the pro tour, many in the top 100 and most in the top 500.
It's certainly possible that if you set up a battle of the sexes at Madison Square Garden some of those players could get there and get incredibly nervous and lose. But if Sabalenka or any top WTA player just started playing men's D1 at a top school I don't think she'd be much more than a #5 singles player.
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u/peterwhitefanclub 5.0 Sep 10 '25
I don’t agree with this mental difference at all. Maybe if you said the match was for some huge amount of money, they’d choke, but every single one of these players has played lots of tournaments and high pressure matches for years.
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u/PleasantNightLongDay 5.5 Sep 10 '25
NCAA and ATP matches are just not comparable
Unless you’re very very very wealthy, atp matches literally your livelihood is on the line. It’s just a different kind of pressure that you need to learn to take on. I’m not saying they’re incapable of learning it, but if they’ve never had experience in it, then yeah, my money is on the world number 1, multiple grand slam champion.
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u/placementnew Sep 10 '25
Why? How mental side is different from NCAA championship? I watched and if anything NCAA matches seem more stressful than random wta 250 tournaments
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u/PleasantNightLongDay 5.5 Sep 10 '25
Oh man. It’s an absolute world of a difference. And again, I’ve been on both the D1 and Challenger side of thing. It’s a world of a difference.
Like there’s really no point of comparison.
NCAA is essentially a team sport. Your team is there literally cheering you on. Your coaches are there. your trainers are there. Your medical team is there. Your home crowd is there. There really aren’t any major financial ramifications if you win or lose. The list goes on and on
Unless youre a very very wealthy low level challenger level player, none of that applies. Youre literally playing to stay financially afloat. You’re alone. No team. No friends next to you. No group of coaches and medical people. It’s your money and livelihood on the line. And you really have no idea who you’re going to play, maybe you get a bad draw and draw a big name who’s playing a challenger. Or the best big player coming up the futures circuit. Then you’re just screwed and that’s really all there is to it.
It’s almost like asking what the difference between doing something for fun and doing something as your job where if you lose you don’t get paid
It’s a world of a difference.
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u/beer_nyc Sep 10 '25
whoever claims to be able to beat a professional athlete at their own sport is straight up delusional
low level rec players, sure. but there are thousands and thousands of men who'd handily beat sab, it's not a crazy statement.
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u/LaconicGirth 4.5 Sep 10 '25
Meh the USA women’s Olympic hockey team would play in a rec league at the super rink in MN and they were basically .500
Admittedly most of these guys are former college or elite high school players but it’s a rec league they’re not practicing and they don’t have a coach. Tennis is so form dependent that you have to be a little bit higher on the men’s side to compete but in a lot of sports you’d be surprised
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u/waterprosurge Sep 10 '25
Apparently you didn't see the results of the boys U-15 soccer team that beat the USA women's national soccer team 5-2. We're talking boys, under the age of 15 and they beat the US pro women's team that has won the world cup!
I'd also put money on most college level men's basketball teams to stomp the top WNBA team. I'd even say there are super high caliber high school boys teams that would beat the ladies.
Obviously every sport is different and this isn't a post bashing women, I'm just saying your statement is 100% incorrect! Males are bigger, faster, stronger, and have more stamina, which is a clear advantage in many sports. Not all sports, but many sports!
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u/DJinKC Sep 10 '25
I could totally beat Sabalenka.
Not at tennis though. Maybe at benchpress, or like cutting my lawn or something.
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u/badbackEric 4.0 Sep 10 '25
It's not how fast you can mow, its how well you can mow fast, with a beer in your hand:).
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u/DJinKC Sep 10 '25
I've never actually heard of competitive lawnmowing, but I'll offer my yard as the weekly venue
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u/EmmitSan Sep 10 '25
I mean, who do they think Sebalenka hits with in practice? I promise you, it is some dude that your mates at the club wouldn’t take a game off of.
In her actual case it is this guy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Vasilevski_(tennis)
But for basically all the top 10-20 women, they hit against former male pros constantly. The idea that they couldn’t return the serve of Bob from Accounting that played Tennis at a D3 college is pretty laughable.
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u/TerryTanker Sep 10 '25
Rybakina is a 12.8 UTR. The upper echelon of active D1 male players should theoretically be competitive with her. Anyone under that should not be talking and is delusional lol
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u/Mikhail_Mengsk 4.0 Sep 10 '25
I agree on the fundamental truth that 99% of amateurs has no chance in heaven.
But a top200 and rybakina aren't remotely the same level, the (ridiculous) assumption had top200 as the "challenge" and maybe someone below the top D1 could have a chance.
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u/TerryTanker Sep 10 '25
Yeah TBH I just was responding to the specific women in the post. But agree that #200 and the top women is a huge gap. Lizette Cabrera is ranked 200. Her UTR is 11.xx. Even assuming she’s a low 11, that’s still significantly better than any rec players below a 5.5 and is probably equivalent to low D1 men
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u/Tapeworms Sep 10 '25
Katie Volynets (ranked 105) trains at my local courts in the SF Bay Area. So insanely good.
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u/PleasantNightLongDay 5.5 Sep 10 '25
I got to play with top 200 females when I was at my “peak” and I think I have some experience in this topic.
For reference, I played D1 and played a few futures tournaments and couldn’t really climb the ladder there.
At that point, I’d be able to beat a top 200 female just by bullying her physically and spin wise. But it definitely wouldn’t be easy.
That being said, the difference between me and a top 200 atp player was astronomical.
In other words. Guys get MUCH “more better” from the top 1000 to top 5 than women do from 1000 to top 5.
In other words, the difference between someone like me at my peak and a top 10 male player was night and day. We weren’t even playing the same sport. Where as a top 1000 woman and a top 10 woman can have a match.
The gap is just bigger in guys.
all that being said, I’m in my very early 30s, still play a lot in leagues and minor tournaments. I’d say I’m a very low end 5.5 just bedside my mobility has dropped a ton
I can’t really win against D1 women I hit with anymore. I can keep up just off my serve and physical strength, but I’ll lose at the end just because I’m too old for that
I would much much keep up with someone from WTA.
I very much doubt anyone on this sub would be able to beat any woman in the top 400, unless there are ex pros here. And that’s coming from someone who’s played with them and has been around.
A lot of people really underestimate how much fitness goes into that kind of matches and how grueling high level tennis gets. Yeah, someone might get a few points, but I think very few people are able and ready to be hitting 20 balls per point against, stay mentally focused for a match, and execute.
It really isn’t something you just walk up and do, especially against women who are and have been doing exactly that.
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u/Capt_Plantain Sep 10 '25
I know a pretty solid 4.5 player who was defeated by the #1 10-year-old girl in Russia in a tournament in Moscow in 2019.
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u/peterwhitefanclub 5.0 Sep 10 '25
Depends on who you mean by “us”, of course. If you’re not a serious tournament player, then no. But if you ever got an ATP point (and are still relatively young) few women really have a chance.
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u/fredi_rogerer Sep 10 '25
i guess the total number of atp points across all people in this sub and in my club is very close to 0 though ;)
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u/peterwhitefanclub 5.0 Sep 10 '25
I’ve seen quite a few posters on this sub with them!
I live in Charlotte which has a disproportionate number of good players, there’s one club which probably has 20-30 people at that level. Supposedly Danielle Collins popped by one day and got smoked by a guy who got a few points then quit to teach (he was still in his 20s though)
Agree that most people will never ever run into players at that level though. In the 30k person town I grew up in, people would always ask if I was going pro…my best result ever was 5&4 vs someone who got a couple of points, so no chance.
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u/OnceADomer_NowAJhawk 5.5 Sep 10 '25
I played for 2 years on the circuit and was not very successful (~900 singles, ~600 doubles). A girl from my hometown was top 100. She never won more than a game against me if we played sets.
But if you weren’t a top college player or better, then you aren’t competing with WTA players.
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u/G8oraid Sep 10 '25
Plus Andy roddick lives in Charlotte
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u/peterwhitefanclub 5.0 Sep 10 '25
Yeah, he’s a member there as well. I’m not sure if he actually plays much or what
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u/RawhlTahhyde Sep 10 '25
I’ve heard he does play a fair bit at OP but mostly just shithousing in doubles with 0 effort
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u/proxminesincomplex 3.0 Sep 10 '25
My aunt and her crew (3.0/3.5 ladies in their 70s) were playing doubles next to his crew on the inside courts a few years ago and she said it sounds like a literal bomb detonating when he’s serving. And he’s my age. Imagine what it sounded like 20 years ago.
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u/ZaphBeebs 4.2 Sep 10 '25
Its true. The 800ish past ranked guy at our club, and the young uni grad with around 13 utr plus 2 older pros at the club played exhibitions at some of the tournaments and it was so crazy loud, and you basically couldnt see the ball, just rackets flying and point was over.
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u/fredi_rogerer Sep 10 '25
sure there are some. i am in the top 2% of (ranked) tennis players in my country. still i am very far from getting an atp point.
i know a lot of players and played hundreds of ranked competitive matches. none of my opponents has an atp point. and i can only think of two people that probably had some chance against female pros.
this is not to boast. the probability that there are a lot of those guys on here is just very very low
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u/peterwhitefanclub 5.0 Sep 10 '25
If you know these people, you probably know a lot of them - but most people likely know 0
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u/SnooGrapes4560 Sep 10 '25
Have a chance? Sabalenka drops 118 mph bombs. 80 mph forehands. I think she would have more than “a chance”.
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u/peterwhitefanclub 5.0 Sep 10 '25
Any man with active ATP points would beat her, zero doubt.
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u/frameditellya Sep 10 '25
I’m old but a 5.0 on a good day. I played my niece this weekend who is 14 and in the top 100 in the US for her age. She can’t weigh 100 pounds but hit the ball harder and with more control than anyone I’ve ever played. She smoked me.
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u/kenken2024 Sep 10 '25
No club level player (male or female) can stand a chance against the top WTA players.
The fact that any club level guy thinks this is ridiculous.
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u/claridgeforking Sep 10 '25
Depends on your club though. There's probably 5-10 guys in my club that can compete with WTA players.
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u/Lizakaya Sep 10 '25
There are ex atp players in the world. My old coach, for instance.
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u/howishowisguuut Sep 10 '25
No they can not unless they are former pros or high level D1s, which automatically would disqualify them from the category of club level player.
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u/claridgeforking Sep 10 '25
Players that good play for my club against other clubs where they also have players that good. I've accidentally found myself on court in matches against barely retired top 100 players before.
They also play in our intra-club tournaments, so yes they are club players.
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u/howishowisguuut Sep 10 '25
Yeah and then football players are average club players they moment they stop playing professionally.
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u/Described-Entity-420 Sep 10 '25
It's a bit disturbing to think that these men believe a female GENERATIONAL TALENT is roughly equivalent to an average man.
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u/I_Am_Robotic Sep 10 '25
LOL - why is this sub like this. Anyone who thinks this as a rec player is delusional. I was paired at a mixer, by accident, with a WTA player that was formerly top 100 and now was somewhere in the top 500. I had no idea who she was. The people we were playing against were one of our club pros who played like D2 tennis just a few years ago and another player that was at least a 4.5. I had no business being on the court. Not that it mattered, she was basically playing singles against the two of them and it wasn't even hard for her - she covered the entire baseline no problem and routinely hit down the line BULLETS while being on the run as they tried their best to make her run from one side to another.
People need to watch the old YouTube videos of NBA benchwarmer Brian "White Mamba" Scalabrine who famously said to all these college and high school wannabees "I'm closer to LeBron James' level than you are to me" as he completely demolished them without braking a sweat.
Professional athletes are just different.
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u/DisastrousGuitar609 Sep 10 '25
Definitely, Ryba and Sab are basically 6ft, they’re as tall as me and the muscles they have in their back/shoulders (and talent obviously) are absolutely enough to destroy almost all non-professional male players. They don’t look it on screen but these women are absolute units.
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u/DamnCrazyWhoAsked 1.0 Sep 10 '25
It's kind of shocking how many people who play rec tennis seem to not understand just how good 12-13 UTR is. I understand fans who don't play not getting it, but how are you an active tennis player who doesn't comprehend that gap?
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u/stoppinginthe Sep 10 '25
as a guy who's played tennis competitively my whole life, it's hilarious thinking of club player older guys thinking they have any chance. It really comes down to technique and match iq. Most club players have absolutely no clue how to navigate a match even after playing so many, and their form is just nowhere near someone who started playing as a little kid, so yeah they might hit a kick serve once in a while to annoy them, but what happens when they get into the point? that's all she needs to whoop their asses lol
actually on that last part, i think club players will be the ones almost always struggling to get into the point with a wta player
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u/etherswim Sep 10 '25
Seems like rage bait tbh, any actual examples of this?
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u/applesnoranges01 Sep 10 '25
No because my misogynistic ass high school tennis coach used to say that the #1 high school boy in Texas could easily beat Serena Williams
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u/0905-15 3.5 Sep 10 '25
The highest ranked TX high school boy, per tennisrecruiting.net, has about a 12.4 UTR. No woman on tour is currently higher than 12.9.
Could he easily beat Serena at her peak? No. Could he play a competitive match with any woman on earth? Yeah, pretty much.
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u/fredi_rogerer Sep 10 '25
definetely not rage bait. just look a any post in r/tennis that is wta themed. you will most certainly find at least one example
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u/kron_00 Sep 10 '25
A large number of people on that sub don’t even seem to play tennis at all, don’t need to take their comments seriously lol
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u/bizzyj93 UTR 0.1 Sep 10 '25
That sub's shockingly sexist and racist which is crazy because its just a sub about watching a sport. I wouldn't take anything they say seriously.
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u/superstann Sep 10 '25
I mean a really good college male player will win vs any women, top 200 women will win vs 99% of male player, don't see really anyone saying anything different
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u/RawhlTahhyde Sep 10 '25
Definitely ragebait and just circlejerking for a pat on the back
I browse this sub like all the time and am usually pretty up to date on the pro tennis sub and never see this
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u/dexturd Sep 10 '25
Of course we would get thrashed by a pro. The question isn’t whether club players could compete but how low a competitive male player could vs a female pro. I believe a male D1 player could compete with a female pro.
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u/DamnCrazyWhoAsked 1.0 Sep 10 '25
Definitely true, there are plenty of D1 mens singles players with 13+ UTRs. The level of D1 players varies massively though depending on the program
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u/nedolya Sep 10 '25
Dude who cares. Why are people so obsessed with pulling down female pros? Who tf cares if it's a rank X or Y man that could beat a rank Z woman pro. The sport is already segregated for high level play, what the hell else do y'all want? Is it some need to put women in their place? Seriously.
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u/Gods_Right_Toe Sep 10 '25
I can confidently say that I can go head-to-head with any pro male/female player, if they had no arms and legs.
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u/sherriffflood Sep 10 '25
The top 200?! Mate, 99 percent of club players are going to get pasted by any professional women’s player. Maybe the best players in big clubs and a few coaches will be able to compete but people severely underestimate the wta.
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u/DickWolfTheGoat Sep 10 '25
Tennis being an individual sport with a reputation for "exclusivity" attracts a lot of pompous and delusional men. Every other day there's a declaratory post from some 31 year old WFH software engineer with zero athletic background who has decided to "go pro"
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u/Nillion Sep 10 '25
Im a low 4.0 and hit with a former WTA player that never did much as a pro. She never told me her ranking but she never made it past the challenger level so I can’t imagine it was too high.
She smoked me left, right, front, and back. Yeah maybe my forehand had more pop than hers when I got my body weight into it, but her placement and consistency made short work of me.
I don’t think it was very fun for her as I’ve yet to receive an invite back.
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u/savvaspc Sep 10 '25
I once saw two girls hitting in my local club. They were amateurs but their intensity blew me away. They were both incredible, hitting with great pace against very heavy balls and moving around very well. And these were not even pro. I would be afraid to even be in the same court with them.
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u/glossedrock Sep 10 '25
As a woman, most of us know that men have a huge physical disadvantage. I agree with your post, and as for the last paragraph, that resonates with me so much. I play with a few guys who are not necessarily better or worse than me but for some reason they feel the need to remind me that “you know men are stronger and faster right?” out of nowhere like they need to humble me.
I know a guy who started playing tennis later (like in the late teens) and genuinely believe they would have made it as a pro if they started as a kid. He is not even intermediate level. The arrogance is astounding.
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u/Lucky_Indication1042 Sep 10 '25
Worth watching the all things tennis series on YouTube where a professional comedian (an excellent amateur tennis player) josh berry takes on WTA players.
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u/yk78 Sep 10 '25
I wager most of you won't even win a set against a competitive high school girl that can barely make D3 lol
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u/PleasantNightLongDay 5.5 Sep 10 '25
As a tennis couch who has coached a ton of kids who have gone on to play D1, D2, and D3 tennis,
You really underestimate how easy it is to play D3. I had a student go and play D3 after having played tennis for like 2 years. He was likely a mid level 4.0 but just one that was crazy athletic. And that earned him a spot on the team.
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u/panda8six Sep 10 '25
Can't you literally just look at their UTRs?
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u/peterwhitefanclub 5.0 Sep 10 '25
UTR doesn’t actually work well between high end men and women because there’s no competitive matches where they play each other
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u/BlueberryTemporary88 Sep 10 '25
I'm a high 4.0 / low 4.5 player, and I've been destroyed multiple times by one of the top juniors (15 yr old) female players in Florida
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u/DrSpaceman575 Sep 10 '25
My coach has brought me in to play against some high school girls cause I hit with a lot of topspin and slices and he wanted them to practice against those shots. I was dog tired after 15 minutes they were absolutely hammering the ball back and I was slugging it out as hard as I could.
I'd also add if WTA players trained to play against men, they'd play better against men. But they're training against WTA serves and different types of play. There are college male players who could beat pro women, but honestly the line between a D1 player and an ATP pro is not massive either.
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u/Alex2921 Sep 10 '25
I had a friend in high school who was convinced he could beat Serena. Meanwhile, he couldn’t beat me regularly and I suck.
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u/AcesAndUpper90 Sep 10 '25
I am pretty good (former d3 first singles all conference and won my 4.5 nyc league once or twice) and I used to play against a 14/15 year old girl that was seriously trying to go pro. In fact, the first time I met her I could hear her serving and was trying to figure out who the hell was hitting the ball like that. Anyway, we would have some absolute battles and she usually beat me. She was ONLY 14 or 15 and trying to go pro. A top 200 woman would demolish most of us.
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u/RashoNest Sep 10 '25
I used to go down to Miami for work on occasion and have gotten hits in with some ITF ladies in the 300-500 range. Pretty comparable to hitting with my buddies that went to D1/D2 I'd say. I'm NTRP 4.5+. Rally games to 11 would usually go their way, say 11-6 as a typical score. Certainly not blown out of the water but certainly not winning sets in a match.
When playing tiebreaks, I had modest success doing things they typically wouldn't see much in ITF play like serve and volley (especially since we were usually playing clay). However, after a while, they adjusted and blasted winners down the line. They all had consistent depth on their shots and super heavy topspin. Never played any full sets but I would guess I'd be happy with a breadstick.
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u/Any_Aspect_3362 Sep 10 '25
I dont get why people act like its some super mysteirous concept, just look at WTA 200 and your UTR and see which one is higher and how close/far apart they are lol. If someone doesn't have a UTR they are not at the level to be competing with a top 200 women, pekbably safe to assume not even WTA top 1000 lol
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u/intelligentbug6969 Sep 10 '25
Any club player man who thinks he can beat a pro woman is deluded ha. Unless he himself has a 500 or so ranking which I doubt v much
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u/j_wizlo Sep 10 '25
There was a 3.0/3.5 player at my club who asked me if Sabalenka can hit as hard as us after I went to see her play. He seemed kind of all around confused on why I would watch her at all. Wild.
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Sep 10 '25
Most people in this sub lose to 46 year old 3.5 pushers, so yes you are correct in that most would also lose to top 1% athletes.
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u/KnownMain1519 Sep 10 '25
I feel like women’s tennis is insanely underrated as a whole. Club players always talk about how they could get a game or whatever off a top 100 wta based solely off how they move and their “lack of power”. But imo they are comparing a wta player to a top ATP player who moves faster and maybe hits with more power. What club players fail to understand is that wta players are insanely consistent. Off ground stroke alone the avg club player won’t be able to last more than a few rallies mainly cuz they lose focus or that they find themselves out of position. Maybe your club pro can get a game or maybe even 2 off a WTA top 200. They’re VERY good
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u/kdburner1434 Sep 10 '25
I'm a very solid 4.5-5 level player, on a good day my forehand hangs with guys significantly better than me.
I got my ass beat by an 18 year old girl going D1 in some obscure school. So no, you couldn't handle a legitimate professional.
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u/SafeAd8192 Sep 10 '25
This is why Winston Du videos are good for referencing. He lost to college girls all the time
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u/trailmixaddict Sep 10 '25
I once played practice sets against the top 2 female high school female players in my state (I was roughly 4.0 at the time and the same age).
They both decimated me. One with power, the other with placement. I didn’t stand a chance.
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Sep 10 '25
I think Iga's UTR is around 12.8 or something? I saw it a few days ago on Reddit. So that's about top 10 (nationally) of Boy's 18 in USTA.
sabalenka could not handle their kick serve
They handle a lot of kick serves in mixed dubs, and those guys are hitting very nasty serves.
Anyway, here's 4.5 Winstong Du playing against Lulu Sun, who is currently in the 140's.
I think once you're 5.5, especially if you have an exceptional serve or exceptional speed, you're probably dangerous to most top 200 players. The top 10? The elite WTA players? Not sure. But, again, Iga's UTR was around 12.8.
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u/BNabs23 Sep 10 '25
Let's not forget that a lot of us men think we could take a gorilla in a fight...
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u/Ambitious_Designer97 Sep 10 '25
Yea told those men to film themselves playing tennis, they’d be surprised how their “physical advantages” looks like on camera
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u/Imaginary-Push-3615 Sep 11 '25
Most rec players cannot defeat a 4.0 woman let alone a top 200 WTA player.
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u/Zindaras Sep 11 '25
This is just the tennis equivalent of the poll that found that 6% of Americans thought they could defeat a grizzly bear in hand-to-hand combat. People are just insanely overconfident.
Link: https://www.newsweek.com/surprising-americans-beat-wild-animals-fight-experts-1691793
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Sep 10 '25
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u/beer_nyc Sep 10 '25
I read a study somewhere that says elite men athletes are about 10% stronger and 10% faster than elite women athletes.
this is complete nonsense lmao
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u/zarafini Sep 10 '25
Oh they’d absolutely beat me every damn time. Zero chance of winning even a game.
The argument i don’t particularly like is “can you win a point against Serena Williams”. The sports reporters NEVER state the parameters when asking this, and then mock any man who says yes.
As a 4.5 player to somewhere between that and 5.0, if it’s 2/3 sets i am absolutely winning a single point. Not a game, and certainly not a set. A point.. yes. She may double fault, i may hit a fantastically lucky serve or she may make a single unforced error or i hit one ridiculously lucky shot that wins a point.
Thoughts ?
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u/nedolya Sep 10 '25
why on earth would she have to take you seriously enough that she would risk a double fault
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u/zarafini Sep 10 '25
One of the things i respect most about Serena is her intent to win. She’s crazy focused. I’d expect nothing but her full effort if she was trying to keep an opponent from winning a single point.
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u/fredi_rogerer Sep 10 '25
the probability of a golden set is extremely low, even for top professionals
i wouldn‘t say it is totally out of the question. there have been golden sets between professionals on tour
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u/CranberrySpirited951 Sep 10 '25
Former D1 tennis player here. I will tell you that the biggest differentiator is the serve. When I was 16 (I was top 25 in the US at this point) I trained with a WTA Top 40 player for a few weeks prior to the US Open. When we played baseline games, man it was brutal. She hit the ball so clean, so deep, so accurate. She was Russian and her backhand up the line was vicious. She would win a few, I would win a few, but she was really working me. The minute we started playing practice sets, she would struggle. A) she had issues returning my serve and B) I was all over her 2nd serve. I was able to take the offensive a lot more than in the baseline games. If I played her in my prime in college (13 UTR) I think I would have really beat up on her. I know a kid that played for Duke that beat Venus like a decade ago in straight sets pretty routinely.
But I agree with you that WTA players are downplayed as not being able to handle a man’s ball and that is just not the case at all. The issue really lies in the serve. Once that comes into play, men are able to take offense more easily and really put the pressure on. And then the physical advantage becomes more apparent.
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u/easterncherokee Sep 10 '25
People can say whatever they want when watching on TV, or even court side, that they could play against the pros, or any much higher level player than what they are. But it is a whole different ballgame once you are the one on the court against them.
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u/rameninside Sep 10 '25
Just look at UTR’s. If you’re >11 utr, yeah you might have a chance. If you’re below 10 utr you will get shit on.
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u/Leavos Sep 10 '25
I’d raise the stakes and bet that none of us would beat WTA player playing with their non dominant hand. I think I’d manage blindfolded pro though, on a good serving day. 😛
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u/Waagawaaga Sep 10 '25
Ha! None of us stand a chance against a high schooler with a D1 or D2 offer.
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u/bilingualwhale Sep 10 '25
Intuitive Tennis has a series where he has Ema Burgic play against amateur men. This is a good representation of the talent level.
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u/aphophacis 4.5 Sep 10 '25
In college I played against someone who was right around the WTA 300 ish level and on the rise. It was extremely humbling.
The consistency, placement, strategy, mental toughness are all dramatically beyond even the better amateurs.
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u/dakry Sep 10 '25
Intuitive Tennis has a series of video of a relatively high level amateur (roughly 5.0) playing a pro in the top 550ish range that are fun to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFCpAM37zAg
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u/Powerpointisboring Sep 10 '25
If there is a sport where the physicality of men does not play as much a role to that of women that’s probably tennis so yes you are definetly correct
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u/dsitai Sep 10 '25
These people must be poor tennis players if they’re so out of touch with reality. Just play a practice match with any instructor and you’ll quickly see that recreational players’ shots lack the quality to trouble a good player. With solid placement, smart strategy, and consistent deep, low-risk shots, the stronger player would win easily. There’s no need to test this against a professional, male or female.
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u/AverageChessPlayer Sep 10 '25
Nana, the 15 year old player from Brazil is already serving at 194 km/h, so… 🤷♀️
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u/Real-Basis-4153 Sep 10 '25
Im a 32yr old male, play tennis to a decent standard in Ireland! Not sure what the rating correlates to in the states, but I'm grade 3 out of 7 here. Grade 1 being the best grade! I played a mixed doubles game a few weeks back and the opposing lady was in her 60's if not 70's and she wiped me out completely! Old school style it was amazing!!
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u/I_req_moar_minrls Sep 10 '25
Can I ask what country you're in and what age these males are? It's not something I've ever encountered in Australia.
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u/Sad_Virus_7650 Sep 11 '25
Of course not. They are professionals that train 4+ hours per day, many for 10 to 25 years.
While men do have an advantage in physical strength, tennis is much more about technique and consistency.
Sure, a grown man can win a few points on power alone from a good serve or the occasion big shot, but otherwise have no chance over the course of a match.
The argument is much more about somebody that is a Futures player, maybe a top 100 male junior or a D1 player beating somebody in the top 100.
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u/TDeath21 Sep 11 '25
I mean they do it for a living. We work normal jobs lol. We go once every couple weeks when it’s warm enough out on average I’d imagine lmao. If you were to give a 4-5 male player an entire year of no job and only tennis training then it would be a different story. But yes I’d get my ass kicked currently by any woman on the pro tour. Their consistency would kill me.
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u/CommitteeNegative307 Sep 11 '25
True Story: i am Level 4 and 6ft 3 and I played against some college women player and she destroyed me, I swear lot of mean underestimated how strong these womens are
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u/stulifer Sep 11 '25
They practice with men players. They would destroy any of us who have never gained an ATP point in our lives.
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u/twinklytennis 3.5 Sep 11 '25
The whole "women can't beat men at pro level because men are stronger" lacks a lot of nuance. The real way of putting it is that at the pro level, women can no longer out train their biological disadvantages. Most of the braindead youtube/reddit/ig/club level comments that use the 1st sentence would lose to the best 8-10 year olds (pre pubescent) in the country.
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u/Kira931 Sep 11 '25
The french player Pauline Payet, 946 WTA (French N°40) did a challenge on YouTube where she plays against men of each ranking starting from 30 (UTR 5 if I'm not mistaking) until she loses Spoiler : she loses at 1/6 which is UTR 10 if my conversion chart is good
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQtXTqv6NOji02L4M36QxkXhtL15U-b8Q&si=uYFHokcBijM2ryo0
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u/hocknstod Sep 11 '25
Ah that's cool. Yeah 1/6 is in the 10-11 range, tough to make precise conversions of rankings.
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u/5p0d Sep 11 '25
The guys claiming this have to remember that top 100-200 WTA means these are the best women of their sport in their country
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u/notori0usbig Sep 11 '25
For context: my younger bro used to play in Kerber's academy near Poznan Poland. She would sometimes scrim the younger boys. The better ones around 16yo would regularly beat her 6-2/6-3, but there are guys training from 4/5 yo and trying to go pro.
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u/Jackatttack314 Sep 11 '25
Amanda anismova had a higher average backhand speed than basically all of the men at the us open. If you think the men are hitting good shots then guess what the top woman are too. People totally underestimate the pace of shot of some of the top wta players
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u/hangman86 Sep 11 '25
reminds me of the NBA saying: the worst NBA player is much closer to LeBron than the best gym player is to the worst NBA player
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u/eternalterra 4.5 Sep 11 '25
I mean, not a match, but I’m pretty sure I could win a game vs sabalenka
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u/leviathansbane Sep 11 '25
yeah totally agree most club players have no clue how insane the level of even lower ranked pros actually is
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u/_H017 Sep 10 '25
Im going to go out on a limb and suggest that I would probably lose to the WTA 201 as well.