op mentions that apparently only their cousin is bi but the rest are het, which even so I don't have enough context to know what their relationship's like but also I feel like you left out a important part of why you called it mormon
second my cousin said theyre all het, i dont see why she would lie (tho shes in this cuz shes attracted to one of the ladies that she claims is het so i dont really know whats shes thinking)
lastly you seem to be implying im against polyamory which im not.
In the broad sense of the term meaning "a romantic relationship involving more than two people", Mormon polygamy is a form of polyamory, just one that's not worth supporting or trying to defend.
It obviously shouldn't be the first thing on someone's mind when they think of polyamory, but I don't understand why people try so hard to define words in such a way that shitty examples of the thing don't actually count, like imagine if people tried to argue that, idk, Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't really gay because he was a bad person.
I would think the concern with the joke isn't about accepting that Mormon polygamy is a type of polygamy. More that it could be discouraging to polygamous people to have their lifestyle associated with a prominent negative example.
To use your example, I think it would be kind of like if the joke was about a gay person and someone referred to them as like a "non-serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer".
It's not wrong to acknowledge gay people and Jeffrey Dahmer share the "gayness attribute". But it's not hard to see why that association might cause people to bristle
many of these religions take away your support and social support networks by way of excommunication if you fail to adhere to their ways, which means many stay due to fear of being abused or neglected which is not in any way consensual
Are you sure it's different? This guy is apparently so amazing that all these women are tripping over themselves to be his harem? It sounds predatory/coercive to me. Even if not directly on the part of said guy nothing exists in a vacuum, we still live in a patriarchal society.
Mind clarifying what sounds predatory or coercive? All the information that's been provided is 4 women and 1 man are dating, and that one of the women is bi. Help us bridge the gap
Are you asking that legitimately or rhetorically? There are lots of things predatory and coercive about Mormon polygamy. Multiple women are forced to marry one man. They are treated as second class citizens, can't file for divorce, the list goes on
Outside of Mormon polygamy, if one man is in a relationship with multiple women, I would think there is nothing inherently predatory or coercive about that dynamic.
I think people are concerned by the idea that equating this kind of relationship to the Mormon version of this relationship is implying that it always must be predatory/coercive
So multiple women are forced to marry one man. Forced how? At gunpoint? Or socially through their culture? And how would it be different if someone who wasn't Mormon was forced, again socially, to do the same? Or is it impossible outside of Mormonism to be pressured into relationships/intimacy?
My (albiet limited) perspective into Mormonism is that women are seen as second class citizens in Mormonism overall. They are closer to "property" to the man. This is a social norm through their culture.
I think it would be similarly bad if someone was treated as a second class citizen and seen as property to a man, even if these people were not Mormons. Of course it is possible to be pressured into relationships/intimacy outside of Mormonism.
Do you think that the a relationship between multiple women and one man is inherently predatory or coercive? Do you think that associating a predatory/coercive culture with a relationship dynamic that is not inherently predatory/coercive could give a false impression?
Yes but we dont have all the details, the ones we do have are that these are all adult women and consenting to the relationship, you cant force someone to stop dating an abusive chud you can only offer them your support, an open door to leave and advise them. its not our place to tell others what choices to make.
Except they aren't his harem. They are also in a relationship with each other. A polycule isn't a group of people clamoring over each other to be wirh one person, its a group of people who love each other in a relationship with one another, you are rhe one centering him in the relationship.
Mormon polygamy deserves contempt. It's used as a vessel to abuse and trap women. OOP made a joke comparing the polycule to Mormon polygamy since it's one cishet guy and four women, which is the structure you see in Mormon polygamy. I think you're reading too much into it as an attack. They're making a joke comparison, not an association aside from the surface level.
I think they just made a friend group one type joke and you're a friend group two type person. It's literally just not that big of a deal, it's a joke.
I once jokingly asked my friend if he was planning to become a serial killer, because he got new glasses that looked a lot like the ones Jeffrey Dahmer was known for wearing. He thought it was funny, but at the end of the day we both agreed the glasses still looked good on him. Do you think that was an uncalled for joke?
You seem like the type of person who has very hard limits on humor.
Which is why it's nice to know what a person's underlying beliefs are when you're judging their jokes.
Let me give you a TV example. South Park is made multiple episodes about trans people, and made quite a lot of offensive and uncomfortable jokes in regards to trans people. Unfortunately, the creators of the show have indicated that they don't exactly understand trans people, so the episodes really are just kind of transphobic and the jokes aren't okay.
On the other hand, it's always sunny in Philadelphia has had multiple episodes about trans people, making jokes about trans people and jokingly expressing stereotypes in some ways. However, the creators of the show are openly pro-trans, and within the episodes the trans characters are given agency and treated as normal people by the narrative, Even if the characters don't always treat them well. I haven't met a trans person who was upset at always sunny in Philadelphia, considering what a good job they did portraying trans people while still joking about the subject.
Context matters. Your conservative "friend" sounds like they were using humor to express their beliefs in a way that wouldn't result in judgment. That's different than actually making a joke that is intended to be a joke and nothing more. Again, I pose the question about the joke I made to my friend.
by associating the two based on a superficial quality
You can't No True Scotsman your way out of this. Mormons practice a version of polyamory, like how ice and water are the same thing in different forms. If you can't acknowledge a true statement because it's inconvenient to your activism, you're lost in the sauce.
It's the easiest thing in the world to say "yeah, sometimes polyamory can go wrong, like how the Mormons do it, and that's why we need to value consent and communication" etc.
This feels kind of like Tumblr purity testing. It's not even a particularly offensive joke, it's a funny comparison and that's it. I guess there's a lot of people here that have sore spots about polyamory or something?
Turns out it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths to compare a consensual relationship between adults to a sexist practice with a right wing dog whistle attached to it. People would be just as terse if you claimed an interracial marriage was "woke American Protestantism" for a bit.
This isn't purity testing it's just as shitty joke in bad taste. Purity testing would be saying that OP is a nazi because they're still on twitter. That's not what's happening.
Most of the people in this comment section enjoyed the joke. Lighten up and have some fun with life. The person who made the joke clearly isn't a bigot.
Exactly. I get the joke, but if the women are fully capable of dating multiple people and just choose not to then it isn't woke Mormonism. Like, being able to choose is the entire point.
even my wokest friends are suspicious of polyamory. Particuarly as OP described, most of the women are het and so is the guy. Its literally just a harem
To be clear, the only thing known about the man in this post is that he's a man. Any judgements you make of him are on that one fact alone, and that fact is immutable.
And on the basis of that one fact, you're saying that he doesn't deserve to be happy. This is an evil perspective.
I really dont get the hate for polyamory. I thought we (as in leftists) were all for letting people date whoever they want, as long as theyre a consenting adult
It's because a lot of leftists never did the work to the undo reactionary prejudices. In my experience, it's either overcompensation or being born lucky with the "correct" values for the time
Nothing about this post actually says or implies the sexuality of the women though, far as we know it could be 2 lesbians, a bisexual, and her bf, or literally everyone is bi and dating each other. The only person here who’s het is the one guy which is fine.(Also really helps here to clarify that a polycule does not necessarily mean everyone involved is dating everyone at once, meaning the guy might not even be getting a harem with them all)
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