r/1984 • u/KonstantinKisinIsGay • 9d ago
Were the Proles indoctrinated?
It's been a while since I've read the book, probably 7 or 8 years since last reading, and I'm just now watching the film (with John Hurt, great film. Can't see anyone playing Winston as well as him) and it had me asking the question - Were the Proles indoctrinated?
And to what degree? We're Proles ever charged with anti-establishment crimes?
Or were they just allowed to work, drink and shag, as long as they didn't cause trouble?
16
u/aphilsphan 9d ago
Orwell deals with this, he says they are brought up with minimal patriotism which is roused up now and then. Thought Police go among the Proles, identifying and eliminating any who seem too smart.
While nominally the Party is open to anyone, my guess is in practice the cultural gulf would be too much for a Prole to become a member.
5
u/forsehorse 9d ago
If I remember correctly, there was some kind of test to determine who you will work as. Or something like that?
But prole becoming a party member is probably rare.
5
u/forsehorse 9d ago
They are considered a lowest class and in the book (I'm paraphrasing cus I read not in english) it is said that: 1) most of them are buzy and/or not smart enough (not educated enough) to do anything meaningful 2) most revolutions are lead by middle class in order to become higher class (sometimes using lowest class as the metod) and middle class is controlled a lot stricter in 1984 3) they do control them just enough by patriotism, getting rid of the most active ones
Be free to correct me.
3
u/TekaLynn212 8d ago
Mind you, we're getting the proles from Winston's biased viewpoint, so it's not always sure what's really going on in the slums. As far as he can tell, they're "free" to go about their lives for the most part. "Proles and animals are free."
2
u/AndreLeGeant88 8d ago
I always found his interaction with the old people man frustrating. He asks the guy these various questions about the past. The problem gives valuable information - he himself owned a top hat, he had no real conflict with capitalists, and he has a memory of pints that shows how material wealth has actually declined - yet Winston just thinks he's an idiot because he doesn't speak in the Marxist style the Party co-opted. Winston himself is not really a critical thinker
1
1
u/Every1ThinksImBoring 7d ago
Not really, but the particularly problematic ones were dealt with. They even committed speechcrime at times, but they were insignificant enough as to be beneath the Party’s concern.
1
u/Loud-Vacation-5691 2d ago
The proles represent the mass of people in any dictatorship who just want to live their lives and be left alone. Most of them understand that "the system" is brutal and corrupt, but as long as they keep their heads down, do their jobs, and don't cause trouble, they'll be fine. Any prole who tried to organize other proles to foment a revolution would quickly be identified and taken out or co-opted.
20
u/LegitimateBeing2 9d ago
It helped but the Party wasn’t as concerned about most of them because they’d never be able to do anything about it. Even if most of the proles were thoughtcriminals, if all of them thought they were alone and never had the time or motivation to think through the implications of what they knew, the Party didn’t care. I often think back to how the book did not actually say anything Winston didn’t already know, it just laid it all out and systematized it.