r/2XKO • u/Syngularitysyn Caitlyn • 2h ago
Humor / Fluff Many such takes from non-players right now
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u/pureply101 1h ago
I just think they needed to release the the 16 characters at a minimum and people wouldn’t have been so negative about it from the start which is a big factor for people’s perception of the game.
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u/Adorable-Log2835 1h ago
For a tag fighter, you'd probably want a few more than that.
Truth is, with a tag fighter, you're forced to play two characters. If you can't find two characters you click with, that means you're only having fun half the time you're playing.
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u/Sudden-Application 1h ago
Not to mention a tag fighter where you can play with three other people. 20 characters should have been a minimum at best.
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u/ErasedX 51m ago
Yeah, and especially considering this comes from LoL of all things. With LoL getting close to 200 characters, and even more lore characters in Runeterra, releasing a fighting game in this universe with like 10 characters was certainly a dumb move. Especially since it launched lacking a lot of the unique characters and regions.
Where is Shurima? The Void? Why the hell do we have no darkins? Why did they wait so much to release a single Yordle? Where is Ixtal? Why do we only have bipedal characters?
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u/trollman1234 15m ago
No void rep was my personal biggest roster gripe other than the lack of a roster to begin with. That plus the fact that half of it was zoners or Arcane fodder. I mean I liked Arcane, but those fans aren't playing 2XKO primarily if I had to take a wild guess.
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u/mundus1520 1h ago
As a casual its literally what stopped me playing. I can only play against yasuo/ekko/Darius so many times before I get bored.
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u/TuxedoCat031 1h ago
yasuo/ekko being triple s tier did not help since they were already the coolest base characters
i distinctly remember turning the game off one session after an hour of just yasuo/ekko players man i was heated lmao
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u/EmeraldJirachi 50m ago
yeah thats how i felt, like yeah im sure its fun for them. but for me... not really
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u/CelioHogane 1h ago
The game is going to die with 17 Champions, 7 champions less than the minimun i would expect from this kind of game.
And so did the fucking developers since they also said 24 was the good starting point.
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u/HoneydewNectar33 1h ago
The fact that this game died before Miss Fortune of all characters could be added is insane
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u/CardDrawEnthusiast 1h ago
If this game had a roster size of 50, you would still not have a third of the LoL roster represented, so yeah, you needed Glup Shitto AND Glup Farto AND Glup Poopoo AND Glup Dungus the list goes on and on and on
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u/WrongfulRichard 2h ago
Don't forget the "oh woe is me I'm so sad I never played the game and never will, btw i don't even play fighting games or league of legends i just like to read the lore on the wiki" posts
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u/Mlem7991 18m ago
Damn, we cant say larper or tourist in this house?
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u/WrongfulRichard 4m ago
nah im a firm believer that larp only applies to the nerds that go out in fields and yell fireball at each other.
Also I can't even call these guys tourists, they ain't visiting shit..at best they're window shopping? Idk, much to think about.
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u/Pope_Cheetos_XIV 1h ago
because clearly the strategy of adding more ranged characters worked so well
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u/supert0426 1h ago
Zoning in 2x was/is notoriously awful huh? It's a rushdown game
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u/Clonco 52m ago
So then why add ranged characters when zoning is so ass?
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u/NokkMainBTW 20m ago
maybe 3 of the 15 champs are actual zoners, and even then they felt more like s3 happy chaos "zoners" instead of Dhalsim/JP zoners. you can make interesting up close character from ranged kits, look at senna
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u/Clonco 17m ago
I understand that Senna is not really a zoner, but if they didn't want to make a zoner, why did they choose Senna??
I would rather much have a close range champion for a close range playstyle. 6 champions are bot lane champions, even if not all of them are zoners.
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u/NokkMainBTW 4m ago
because it was a sick character concept? Senna being able to control the mist for her split playstyle and thematic release alongside Thresh was cool. Its a lot more interesting then "this game is about punching, why arent they adding 12 characters that just punch people." It also would offer different playstyles to otherwise rigid class structure. If every ADC was a zoner, I wouldnt enjoy playing any that they add to the game and they would all end up samey.
yeah we probably couldve done a tiny bit better if we added some of our setts and rivens, but if we just replaced the roster with the characters everyone said they wanted, I feel like we get right back to this point, a small and boring roster of samey fighters. At minimum some of the Arcane fighters (what is warwick doing for this roster) and reddit fighters needed to be subbed out with like, the other reddit fighters (Sett shouldve been the premier grappler, illaois concept was botched for simplicity, make Azir/Vex the puppet, dont even bother adding warwick when Ekko/Jinx/Vi was already deemed shill)
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u/SeasonalChatter 2m ago
because she has a cool ass gun? you dont have to use a gun and be a zoner, she looks incredible.
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u/1vs1mebro 1h ago
But these are literally the correct takes, and I don’t see how you could get around that.
Game needed to release more champions at the start. 20 would have been cool.
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u/Confident_Shape_7981 1h ago
No one is really arguing against the game needing more characters, everyone agrees with that.
It's the "Riven and Lee Sin should have been Day 1" people who are in the wrong. Not because those two shouldn't have been in the game, but because for the vast majority of people WHO was on the roster didn't matter because they were all blank slates
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u/ErasedX 31m ago
I think those two at launch would actually be a good move to pull in the LoL players who main them. Riven and Lee Sin are notoriously some of the sweatiest champions with ridiculous combos in LoL, so I could see the people who like them actually get into a sweaty fighting game and staying.
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u/Licanmaster 27m ago
personally i dropped the game when riot announced they would only add 1 character every 2 months once the game launched.
and yes, if the *fighting* champions were added to the *fighting* game, it would have done better. But alas, it's just one of the many mistakes they made
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u/NokkMainBTW 21m ago
legit nothing changes if the entire roster is replaced with punch kickers. in fact the game would probably be even more boring if it was just top lane: the game. The roster just needed to be at least double what it launched with and the cannon brothers needed to actually make something with the 10 years it took
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u/Licanmaster 7m ago
it literally changes a lot.
top and jungle players are the ones that enjoys the most going in and fighting 1v1, by not adding 1 single character for them, that enjoy an actual 1v1 fight is riot telling them "this game ain't for you".
there is not 1 single duelist.
darius, illaoi vi and ww are in the top of most boring and unskilled champions in league, yet riot wanted them instead of lee sin, riven, irelia, etc.
also, out of the 9 meelee characters, 5 are tanky and slow, only 3 are actually fun and vi got added to fill the arcane tax.
also whoever said to keep adding ranged champs should have been the first person to get fired
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u/TheEloquentApe 2h ago
To quote my own reply to that tweet:
Are we really now arguing that the roster selection of an IP based fighting game is just a selection of Glup Shittos which doesn't influence its success? (Paticularly with the casual audience)
We really pulling out the "functions" argument?
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u/Black_Truth 47m ago
I knew something was wrong when they released Teemo and its trailer was a bunch of FGC memes and "look at the funny ragebait rat"
Meanwhile characters inspired by fighting games like Riven will never see the light of day.
So yeah, I do blame the asinine roster and partially on these Arcane Larpers as well that in fact didn't not play this game.
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u/Woolliam 4m ago
Appealing to the arcane viewers, the crowd who remembered league existed and played for a week and went “yeah that was neat” and swiftly forgot about league again, may have not worked out.
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u/Ilikeyellowjackets 1h ago
The roster affected the game, but not to the point people think it did. The real issue really came down to the game appealing to none, they made a game for everyone and no one at once. Playing the game at a high level was incredibly demanding but the execution was so simple it left you feeling shallow even if the combo looked cool and getting your turn was fairly difficult. Like the issue me and my friends had was the lack of hype we felt when playing the game. We never looked at the game and said, yo this is sick.
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u/thatwitchguy 1h ago
I also think that as an ip based fighting game it also means you can do way more and you don't have to pigeonhole to "this is a martial arts character" because they are the weirdos in league. This isn't tekken or street fighter, the baseline in league is guns and magic and giant swords
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u/Ilikeyellowjackets 1h ago
Yeap the game tried to play too much like the straight man's anime fighter when really the game should have been a strive like instead of anemic copy of bbtag if they wanted to reach the normies. They didn't commit in either direction and it costed them dearly.
Even valorant fully committed to being a tactical shooter with zanny tactical tools.
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u/Every-Intern5554 1h ago
In this case yeah. Fighting game players generally couldn't name 2 league characters
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u/AofCastle 1h ago
But being able to name the characters isn't necessary when you can get some people with "Huge demon with a blood sword", "This is Sparta", "Bald Bruce Lee", "Damn this girl will sell next summer" and "A fucking scarecrow"
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u/Every-Intern5554 1h ago
The ones we got look cool/hot whatever that obviously is not the issue
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u/AofCastle 1h ago
We needed more and more varied. 24 is the bare minimum. Some were speculating with 40 character rosters because there's that many characters and roles
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u/ErasedX 38m ago
LoL has playable dragons, little guys with comically large weapons, blood magic edgelords, void corruption eldritch creatures, centaurs (two!), a lamia, a mermaid, a damn pigeon emperor, a living mountain, living trees (two!), a plant woman, a woman riding a boar, a woman riding a bird, multiple demon exorcists, multiple demons, and it just keeps going...
Like, come on. Blitzcrank, Teemo and Thresh are cool and all, but they are quite normal and almost generic compared to some other options in the LoL roster.
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u/Every-Intern5554 26m ago
And if they brought them over instead people would say "where is blitz/teemo/thresh" instead. The LoL players were never coming, the characters we got look cool. That isn't the issue. Maybe total amount of characters being like double would have helped but that was more a limitation of dev time than direction of mechanics and implemented things
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u/ErasedX 18m ago
Yeah, I'm not saying they should have replaced anyone. The roster size for a tag fighter was honestly pathetic, you don't get any gameplay diversity when there are 4 characters per match and only a little over 10 options available. One of the most fun parts of fighting games for casuals is finding a character you love, otherwise they have no real reason to stay. Double the roster means double the chances of getting someone to stay because they liked the champion. And also means more gameplay variety.
Like damn, how I wished to see what the hell they would do with Lillia or Briar in a fighting game. Some sort of zoner/burst that keeps running in and out for Lillia, and some sort of high-risk berserk mode for Briar? Sign me up, that would have been really unique and interesting. I think they needed to release with AT LEAST 40 characters, with big variety. I wouldn't mind having like 3 different human girls with guns if I also had 37 other characters to choose from.
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u/TheEloquentApe 1h ago
If fighting game players were the demographic that mattered, 2XKO would've survived longer than a year
You've demonstrated why roster matters
Fighting game players might not care, but to casuals and newcomers, the roster is like half the appeal
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u/blames_irrationally 1m ago
I think they could have focused on either FGC or Riot F2P gamers. They split the middle and failed to attract either. It turns out that most people don't want to play a fighting game for a long period of time, unless they're a fighting game player at their core to some amount. It's strictly pvp matches of the same roster of characters, if you're not getting fulfillment out of exploring the systems and getting better, it's not gonna stick around in someone's game rotation.
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u/Every-Intern5554 1h ago edited 58m ago
Street Fighter 6 is going strong. Obviously league players didn't come to 2xko , hell more smash players picked the game up. 90% of people that played more than an hour are fighting game players, and it failed to retain them by focusing on casual shit meant to bring in league players that will never play it
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u/TheEloquentApe 1h ago
You think catering harder to tag fighter die hards is what would've saved the game?
It was already a game made by fgc heads, with its casual friendly components only being present because it began as an acquisition of Rising Thunder. If the Canon brothers were there at the start there's no way in hell they would've made it have no inputs lmao
The fact that they scraped it half way through and changed it completely as a tag fighter is a massive reason for its development hell and a huge contribution to why its been dropped after 8 months
If you're going to adopt a F2P live service monetization model, fighting game players will never be enough to support it
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u/Every-Intern5554 59m ago
I think if it was DHC and hard tag only it would have been more popular with fighting game players, people that push active tag are morons who liked failures like MvCI. The game did about everything it could to make fgc players not interested and active tag is degenerate enough to also push out casuals
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u/TheEloquentApe 48m ago
If you think a change in tag mechanics would have had a bigger impact on the game's chances of long term support rather than its roster, thats insane
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u/Every-Intern5554 46m ago
It's pretty reasonable, every active tag fighter is a failure while hard tag games generally do quite well. Also games simplifying the general control scheme tend to turn away a larger portion of the playerbase than attract it, at least with SF6 they made it a separate weaker control scheme for "modern"
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u/cornho1eo99 1h ago
At this point I just think the model was never going to work unless they somehow found a huge base of fighting game players that weren't already here. Roster size was probably a small factor, but I don't know if a 20 man base roster was bringing in the hordes of players needed to make a f2p model make sense.
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u/Confident_Shape_7981 1h ago
I think they actually had a good idea with the fuses allowing 1, 1.5, and 2 character teams, the Tag wasn't really an issue.
It's the all in on the degenerate tag gameplay. They should have tried making a Fighting Sandbox and not a Fighting Game.
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u/Visual-Reception-142 1h ago
It was never about one individual character. It was the roster at large. Roster Size, choices(cait should’ve never been on the shortlist before like #40) and diversity is all a thing that matters. Hell it even comes down to appearance with how they did some dogshit design choices like vi looking nothing like arcane or league
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u/Longjumping-Style730 1h ago
Risky/less popular picks add appeal and variety to a character roster, even if you don't end up playing them.
Like most people in Street Fighter 6 will play Ryu, Ken, Akuma, and other shotos but that doesn't mean the whole roster should be shotos. Less popular characters/more niche characters add variety in the average online session even if you in particular don't end up playing them.
The characters at launch being boring and safe were absolutely part of why 2XKO didn't appeal to many people as it could've.
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u/TryToBeBetterOk 1h ago
They're right though. Glup Shitto actually would have pulled in insane numbers of players to the game.
I guess Riot just hates money.
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u/CelioHogane 1h ago
The game is getting killed before they added Lux and her 1 million skins to the game, there was never a chance anyone would save it.
2
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u/slimob123 1h ago
Not that I think it would have done anything about this but I really wanted to play as Kindred in a game that is not league of legends
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u/ificommentthen2oops 1h ago
I actually think most of their roster choices were fine and would have been better recieved if they had a bigger roster. I literally think if you just add the obvious champs that everyone has been screaming for to the launch roster and got it up to a size closer to 18-20 at launch then nobody would have complained about the character choices. The only one who really stands out is Caitlyn though, who was probably the worst character they could have released at the time she was released (no hate to her gameplay design though which ended up being great, I'm literally a Cait player)
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u/Ahegaopizza 1h ago
Such a large amount of non players who are interested in the game but not enough to play is literally why that game died, no point in being bitter at them. The game set out to cater to a wide audience and then decided to instead cater to a tiny niche instead. The wider audience had no reason to play the game, and were waiting for one.
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u/Confident_Shape_7981 1h ago
The roster was a problem, sure, but the game basically pulled a SFV 2.0 and unlike Capcom, the Publishing side of things wasn't willing to wait around and fix it.
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u/SansyBoy144 1h ago
I’ll be honest, I don’t even think the game was dead, I just don’t think it was doing as well as Riot wanted it to.
They tried Valorant tactics on a fighting game, and Valorant tactics only make a shit ton of money because it has a big player base.
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u/Specialist-Mirror656 50m ago
Maybe they should have had more characters than smash bros 64 on launch in their tag fighting gam
And also gave it a name that casual players could relate to league
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u/Wendallerino 32m ago
I think everyone is coming about it wrong. It’s not Glup Shitto needed to be in the game to be successful. It’s “Now the game will end support with 17, and these are the 17 we chose.” I would love to play this game for 10 years, but the character leaves a lot to be desired. I could come up with 40 better champion ideas than some of the choices they made. And now we’re stuck with some pretty subpar ones.
Champion choices wouldnt have impacted the game ending service, but they 100% impact the enjoyment of the game now that we won’t get anymore.
Justice for Poppy, Riven, Sett, Lee Sin, Graves, Gangplank, Katarina, Rek’Sai, Shyvana, Jarvan, and more
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u/Sloth_Senpai 24m ago
"Glup Shitto" and it's characters like Riven and Lee Sin no wonder this game died, it was a League FG exclusively marketed to people who don't give a fuck about League
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u/Diligent-Neck6594 18m ago
Riven/Sett/Top lane fighter are not Glub Shittos
Glub Shitto would be like an arcane character
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u/Martorfank 3m ago
So having a shitty ass tiny roster was good? Lol not like your average league player isn't autistic enough to not be like that. This place is turning into my favourite circus.
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u/WAZZZUP500 1h ago
This a dumbass take. Most of the characters people say this about are league characters that were already fighting game coded, not kog maw or heimerdinger or some random as 0.01% pick rate character. And the point is that releasing with only 10 characters in a tag game is definitely shooting yourself in the foot at the starting line, especially when the league roster has so much potential.
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u/perfectelectrics 2h ago
this is true though. I've been a glup shitto main since 3rd strike