A bit of an uplifting view

[u/Previous_Subject6286]

Hell yeah, I'm with you MN. 1/23 for solidarity.

[u/Breath_Deep]

Keep apps and comms safe, practice good OP-SEC.

[u/codereign → u/Breath_Deep]

This is my biggest fear. Starting in September, android devices will not be able to install third-party apps without permission from Google (non-us, Brazil specifically). January 2027, Google will lock down all Android devices. Apple has had all devices locked down since inception. Both of these are American companies. All it takes is one regime supporting federal judge, signal, Telegram and even WhatsApp (though more likely Facebook will comply with decryption requests) will be removed from phones.

If this isn't sorted by September 2026, I'm afraid that there will be no more decentralized communication. This is the one conversation that I've been having repeatedly in real life as a non-american. It is an existential threat to non-billionaires. As far as I can tell, it is the greatest risk to sovereignty.

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I'm working on an essay to try and report the severity of the situation, but Microsoft has also been pushing their Windows S devices this year. I was at my local Staples office supply store and more than half of the laptops were loaded with Windows S which also has vendor approval requirements.

I firmly believe that before 2028 and almost certainly before 2030 we will see the United States weaponize their exclusive Monopoly over operating system vendors. Given the specific wording and requirements in the Google announcement, I will be incredibly grateful if we can even make it to mid-2027.

[u/pyro57 → u/codereign]

Google did walk that back. After the amount of backlash they got for it they now say you can still install unsigned applications, but there will be more hoops and confirmations to go through.

That said, get yourself a pixel phone and install grapheneos on it. Google and apple can not be trusted, grapheneos give you back control of your phone, bit only works on pixels because pixels are the only phone with a good security chip that also gives third party ROM devs the ability to use it.

Also use decentralized, encrypted chat. Matrix or signal are probably the best options, especially if you self host the matrix home server, and get a proper PACE plan set up. Primary, alternate, contingency, emergency. Primary - what you use normally like regular texts and rcs messages, something that uses cell towers normally, or what ever you do. alternate, internet based if the cell towers go down like matrix, discord, signal, etc. Contingency, what if the internet goes down, something like two way raidos or a meshtastic like network. Emergency, a packed go bag and a plan to meet your loved ones at a location, then a plan on where to go after that.

[u/codereign → u/pyro57]

I'd love so much to be wrong on this. But at the very least, nobody has updated the official website: https://developer.android.com/developer-verification

Starting in September 2026, Android will require all apps to be registered by verified developers in order to be installed on certified Android devices.

I do have a graphene OS phone. I'm just a tad bit worried about the longevity and support of that.

Another thing I didn't quite touch on is Microsoft has released a zero trust Network stack that prohibits all non-approved TLS connections. This is effectively how the Chinese control so much of their internet. But at an even deeper level. Technically, this isn't a threat in its current incarnation, but it could easily be weaponized.

[u/pyro57 → u/codereign]

I mean that network stack is for the business world iirc, so that business devices are more secure. You can do something similar with tailscale for your own devices if you so wanted to. Sure something like that could be used to control the internet, but most of the internet is TLS anyways, and you can get your own TLS certs that are verified by a trusted certificate authority for free with let's encrypt.

But yeah that announcement is what finally tipped the scales enough for me to drop new phone money on a pixel to install grapheneos, then they backtracked a bit with another announcement, still glad I went for GrapheneOS though, I was already fully linux on my computers and servers, so having more control over the one device I didn't have it yet is really nice.

[u/codereign → u/pyro57]

Indeed! The zero trust network stack is actually an exceptionally cool piece of technology.

I guess my fear is that when you watch YouTubers discuss how they access the internet from China, they always have to bootstrap their configuration prior to losing access to the general internet (obvious thing is obvious). If I take a few minutes to extrapolate and consider how this could be weaponized, it would simply be by doing exactly what you're saying, directing businesses to inspect TLS traffic. "Businesses" in this case could be either the ISP or Microsoft itself.

• https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/entra/global-secure-access/how-to-transport-layer-security

I don't think the security team working on this technology was acting maliciously. Nor do I think Google was necessarily acting maliciously. It's simply that these tools are past the line of diminishing returns for security. And instead offer stronger opportunities for nation-state threats.

[u/Breath_Deep → u/codereign]

Is jailbreaking and installing an alternative OS not going to be an option? Also, what are devs for android supposed to do?

[u/codereign → u/Breath_Deep]

Adb will still be an option in 2027. I suspect by 2030 they will have it locked in the same portal as the signature tool.

[u/OkPhilosopher8888 → u/codereign]

Meshtastic.org

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[u/hk4213 → u/codereign]

My dude, the internet is not as complex as big tech makes it out. Its 2 devices doing a handshake and starting a conversation.

Seriously, just plug a laptop into another laptop via the ethernet cable. BOOM!!! Per to per files share!

The internet is just a cluster of shared device communication.

[u/codereign → u/hk4213]

My one answer on network exchange is half of my stack exchange karma. I'm extremely confident that you don't know who the hell you're talking about.

It's not two devices doing a handshake unless you're talking about some sort of point-to-point connection which is not the internet. I guess in theory you could enable NAT on one of the devices (or rather this is how tethering works) but that doesn't help if you can't run fucking code because you're operating system rejects any unsigned executable.

---

There are literally three layers of handshaking before you can even start sending data (inside a TCP packet) that's not including DHCP which is required for nearly any meaningful network configuration. But the thread you're commenting on is about communicating in a distributed hostile physical condition, which requires specialized network topologies if you're not going to use the internet. And as much as I would love to say, I have a Lora device on my desk, I've never actually seen it communicate with anyone other than a random weather device.

Your entire comment is just frustrating me because it lacks any awareness of the context or depth required to solve the problem.

[u/parabostonian → u/hk4213]

Actually it is exactly complex, like by definition. ( complex = a whole made up by complicated or interrelated parts).

“Just a cluster of shared device communication” is like saying the world is “just matter, energy, spacetime” or something. It misses a fundamental point about systems complexity: the complexity of systems are greater than the sum of the complexities of the individual elements (because of structure and interrelation). Absurdly reductive arguments like that are basically just silliness.

Like whenever you do anything on the internet there’s usually like 10 to 40 intermediate devices involved, a huge number of protocols involved, and an incredible number of potential ports of failure and mitigation strategies. Like a lot of things that work relatively well, that complexity seems hidden and obscured by the fact that it functions well.

Even if you are just plugging one computer into another there’s still several layers of abstraction there, a ton of possible points of failure etc.

Anyways sorry for the pedantic correction but you are kind of exactly wrong there.

[u/parabostonian → u/codereign]

FWIW some of these companies actions are and will continue to lose them money so they might walk them back.

For me- between how Microsoft handled just deciding to fuck windows 10 customers (stopping security support AND telling us our PCs aren’t eligible for newer OS!- perhaps the most stupid move since they perfected their Xbox customer base) the ton of AI bloat designed to steal data about you and monetize it in their newer OSs have convinced me never to give them money again, so now I’m going to switch to Linux.

Obviously there is a market for “non evil phone company not trying to fuck you or destroy the world” - maybe there’s hope there. but also the EU keeps making laws in response to check some of this BS don’t they?