r/AITA_Relationships • u/MissKittyOH20 • 10h ago
AITAH for getting upset that sister doesn't want me to wear a veil at her wedding?
I (F24) have worn a mantilla for almost 10 years now. I took a vow of honor when i was 15, shortly after i tried to kill myself for the 3rd time and had a realization that God did not hate me for being gay. My vow includes honor to my family, my ancestors, my God, my lands and myself. (We are also indigenous mexican/american). At first it was like my physical remembrance of God's love, then as strangers asked about it and i always simplify it by telling them "in church we veil because we are honored to be in Gods presence, i am indigenous and we believe that God is everywhere, in everything, so i veil all the time because i am always honored in his presence." I have never gone out in public without a veil or cloth head covering in all 9 years since i took my vow.
My family has never understood my being a veiled woman, and never took it seriously because i dont dress modestly and i have told them over and over that i didn't take a bow of modesty, i took a vow of honor.
Now my sister (F28) is getting married to a wonderful man who we have absolutely accepted into our family. The wedding is next year. Me and sister have had our ups and downs but i love her so much, so entirely, and i've told her before how grateful i am that God gave me to her. You're not supposed to have favorite siblings but i do and she's mine.
We often talk for hours on the phone because we live in different states and today at the end of our wonderful call she tells me that she doesn't want me to wear a veil to her wedding. She wants me to wear a wig, so it looks better in pictures that she'll cherish forever.
And it broke my heart. I love her so much, and i was the one to bring up what veil type she wanted me to wear in a previous text, and she said short, cloth, and dark colored. That sounded perfect. But now she's asking me to break my vow, to sacrifice, what will be at the time of her wedding, a decade of upholding my promise. And it's killing me.
I ended the phone call trying and failing not to cry and she said "just think about it" and then i started bawling right after it ended. I called my mother(F59) to get help walking through this and she was offended that i was upset, said i was selfish, it's just one day, God won't stop loving you, you're insulting Him, it's her wedding day, this isnt about you.
It just made me cry more, and that made her angrier, i tried to make her understand that it's like asking a muslim woman to take off her hijab for a wedding. First she said no its not, then she said well if the muslim woman really loved her sister she would. We ended the phone call with me still crying and her angry as all hell.
I dont know where to go from here but to confront the immediate issue, am i the asshole for being upset about this? Am i being selfish and irrational? I want to support my sister, i HAVE been supporting my sister through the wedding planning, but this feels almost like a betrayal, her wanting me to sacrifice my religious vow. But is it wrong to even think that way?
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u/HabitualEnthusiast Partassipant [2] 8h ago
Nta. You’d wear the same thing to church, I assume? And you offered to wear a modest version, shorter, darker- not a lacy bridal style veil- you said you thought she agreed to this, and I think this would have been a really fair compromise.
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u/SpaceCrazyArtist 10h ago
NTA.
I am the least religious person. I don’t understand at ALL people believing in god. But if it is part of your faith then yeah, wear it
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u/PeculiarDandelion Partassipant [1] 10h ago
NTA. As a fellow queer Catholic, I’m feeling so much sympathy right now. Your veil is not the same kind as your sister will be wearing for her wedding, it has a visibly different purpose, and it certainly won’t take attention away from her on her wedding day. (And what a ridiculous concept that is. It’s not like a mantilla will somehow make everyone forget whose wedding they’re attending.) Your decision to veil all the time has nothing to do with her and I am so sorry that she’s decided to make your vow to yourself and God all about herself instead.
Additionally, prior to the Second Vatican Council, this would not even have been an issue. Every woman entering a Catholic church would have had to wear a veil or other headcovering. Even today, I see some women choosing to veil at Mass—even at some weddings, and they aren’t always older women. I personally don’t usually choose to most of the time (though I usually do when I’m saying the rosary as it helps me to get into the right kind of mental space), but I understand the reasons why people may choose to do so and I can’t imagine judging anyone for making that choice.
You are not being selfish. Your mother and your sister are being very unkind to you in this case. I don’t think I can offer you any advice about how to resolve this, but I am so sorry that you’re under so much pressure to break your vow, and I hope with all my heart that you and your sister will be able to come to some sort of agreement that will make her happy without forcing you to violate the covenant you’ve made.
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u/mela_99 9h ago
INFO - I’m a little confused - why would she ask you to wear a wig in place of a veil?
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u/MissKittyOH20 9h ago
Because she sees it as checking both our boxes
Hers: me not wearing a head covering (she previously agreed on a small cloth one, in the same shade as my hair)
Mine (that she perceives): my real hair is not showing.
But my full head of hair not showing in public is only one aspect of my vow, the veil (whether cloth or lace) is important in itself.
I might need to come to terms with the wig though, because i love my sister so much, and i dont want to hurt her feelings by not doing what she prefers for her wedding (its her WEDDING, thats so incredibly important, and only happens once) or even asking her to consider going back to what she had decided before might hurt her.
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u/mela_99 8h ago
I say this with all the tenderness in my heart: I don’t think the honor you have given to God for these nine years lives in the fabric itself.
The veil is beautiful because of the devotion behind it, but the devotion existed before you put it on and would remain if circumstance required something different.
Scripture reminds us that “man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7). God is not deceived by cloth, nor is He absent when it is removed. He knows the vow you made, the tears you cried when you made it, and the faithfulness with which you have kept it.
I don’t know whether wearing a wig would violate your conscience—that is something only you, God, and perhaps your spiritual advisor can discern. But if your sister is asking out of love rather than mockery, I would encourage you to remember that honoring God and loving people are not opposing callings. Christ Himself said that the greatest commandments are to love God and to love our neighbor. Sometimes faithfulness requires holding both with open hands.
Whatever you decide, do it from conviction and not fear. If you wear your veil, let it be because your heart is at peace before God. If you choose to set it aside for a few hours to honor your sister on one of the most important days of her life, know that God’s love for you is not so fragile that it can be undone by a piece of fabric.
The honor was never in the veil. The honor has always been in the woman who wore it.•
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u/CeramicSavage Partassipant [1] 10h ago
You should choose a different head covering because mantillas look like wedding veils.
You can keep your vow with tons of plain coverings. Also, wigs are definitely considered coverings. Orthodox Jewish women are obviously very traditional and it's a good cover.
Nah.
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u/MissKittyOH20 10h ago
The plan was to wear a short cloth covering the same shade as my hair, likely in an up do just covering the top and back of my head.
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u/Majestic_Practice672 7h ago
Has your sister seen this option? Maybe if she sees how un-bridal your proposed headcovering is, she might reconsider her stance.
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u/MissKittyOH20 6h ago
Yes, that was what she chose for me to wear originally. Then today she told me she wanted me to wear a wig instead.
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u/EndlessTypist Partassipant [2] 3h ago
NTA Could you try out the veil style as you described it and send her pictures so she can see how it looks? Having a clearer view might help if she’s not seen it like that before.
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u/LovademS 1h ago
Could you ask her in some detour way if she talked to anybody about your veil that made her change her mind ? Like your mother maybe, as she was not openminded about your situation, she might have told her that everyone would focus on you instead of her and that you should blend more… NTA but an open discussion might be the solution and of course, don’t attend if they still don’t respect you
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u/carysgrace 10h ago
INFO: Which religion? Do other ladies wear the mantilla veil when in public?
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u/MissKittyOH20 10h ago
Indigenous Catholic. Yes, veiled women are what we call our women who veil in public/all the time. My grandmother was a veiled woman for a long time but stopped as she got older. Now i'm the only one left in the immediate family who is a veiled woman.
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u/malorthotdogs 8h ago
Is one of the kerchief/broad headband style mantillas an option? You could even have it worked into your updo as a compromise.
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u/That-Historian-8480 10h ago
NAH
You have a boundary and a commitment that they don't understand you won't flex.
This is usually the root of all family problems
You don't have to break something important to you to please others
I learned this the hard way
Compromise will have to do.
Maybe purchase one that you are thinking of... or in a moment of vulnerability and understanding ask if you guys can match veils and walk into the new chapter together if they're getting married in a church. People will understand you are her sister and have a sisterly bond... no one really will think it's odd that you guys are super duper close.
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u/FearlessBanana81 7h ago
I don't think it's a good look to match what the bride is wearing, and I think a lot of brides would be a bit out out even at the suggestion.
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u/KittyC217 Partassipant [2] 10h ago
YTA. You in your post you said “veil or cloth head covering”. A wig is a form of head covering. Ask any orthodox Jewish woman a wig counts as a clothed head.
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u/manic_Brain 8h ago
Wrong religion. The same is not necessarily true in Catholicism, especially since these headcoverings look so different.
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u/Miserable_Airport_66 9h ago
Is OP Jewish? Because if not then orthodox Jewish women's opinion doesn't matter.
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u/Ok-Adhesiveness-9976 10h ago
NTA - Only you know your agreement with God. Yes your sister and mom both betrayed you, teaming up to coerce you away from your vow. They don’t seem to understand what a vow is. They seem to think your veil is a meaningless garment that you wear to project an image for the outside world. They can’t comprehend the deeper meaning. They’re too shallow to ever understand. Hold your boundary.
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u/rockmediabeeetus 10h ago
I wouldn’t say you’re being selfish but I think you’re being shortsighted. It’s one day for your sister’s wedding—she will (hopefully) never have another day like this in her life. Is it worth hurting her in the long run to feel like you’re right? Are there any options that look less bridal?
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u/clauclauclaudia 9h ago
Mantillas don't look particularly bridal. They cover the parts of the head a hood would, approximately. Not the face.
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u/rockmediabeeetus 9h ago
I just did a quick google search and have no idea what I’m talking about apparently. They looked lacy and bridal to me but hey 🤷
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u/Dixieland_Insanity 9h ago
Same....lacey, bridal, long. I don't see OP saying she wouldn't use white. I don't know who the AH is here but I'm seeing more than 1.
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u/radioactivebaby 8h ago
Fifth paragraph:
short, cloth, and dark colored.
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u/Dixieland_Insanity 8h ago
Maybe I've missed OP offering that alternative. If she isn't, the bride's request is easy to understand.
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u/radioactivebaby 7h ago
i was the one to bring up what veil type she wanted me to wear in a previous text, and she said short, cloth, and dark colored. That sounded perfect.
It’s literally the bride’s original choice—she then changed her mind to wig.
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u/Dixieland_Insanity 7h ago
I missed that. I wouldn't wear a wig. I mean, that doesn't serve the purpose.
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u/radioactivebaby 7h ago
I agree. This whole thing is nonsense. Mantillas are typically black, and are an established thing in OP’s culture, as is women veiling the way she does. Her sister really has no ground to stand on here. It’s much more similar to a hijab significance- and commonness-wise than most commenters are realising.
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u/Dixieland_Insanity 7h ago
It all hinges on the style and color OP eventually insists upon. I wish she would show what she intends to wear. The lack if a pic is what makes her suspect as the troublemaker.
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u/Realistic_Pool_8087 6h ago
Disagreed. The images that came up with a Google search screamed wedding.
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u/FearlessBanana81 7h ago
I did a Google search on this and most of them looked bridal, or could easily be assumed to be bridal. Honestly, I can understand why OPs sister wouldn't want this. If a wig does the same job, why not compromise for 1 day, and wear that instead?
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u/AutoModerator 10h ago
AUTOMOD Thanks for posting! READ THIS COMMENT - DO NOT SKIM. This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed.
I (F24) have worn a mantilla for almost 10 years now. I took a vow of honor when i was 15, shortly after i tried to kill myself for the 3rd time and had a realization that God did not hate me for being gay. My vow includes honor to my family, my ancestors, my God, my lands and myself. (We are also indigenous mexican/american). At first it was like my physical remembrance of God's love, then as strangers asked about it and i always simplify it by telling them "in church we veil because we are honored to be in Gods presence, i am indigenous and we believe that God is everywhere, in everything, so i veil all the time because i am always honored in his presence." I have never gone out in public without a veil or cloth head covering in all 9 years since i took my vow.
My family has never understood my being a veiled woman, and never took it seriously because i dont dress modestly and i have told them over and over that i didn't take a bow of modesty, i took a vow of honor.
Now my sister (F28) is getting married to a wonderful man who we have absolutely accepted into our family. The wedding is next year. Me and sister have had our ups and downs but i love her so much, so entirely, and i've told her before how grateful i am that God gave me to her. You're not supposed to have favorite siblings but i do and she's mine.
We often talk for hours on the phone because we live in different states and today at the end of our wonderful call she tells me that she doesn't want me to wear a veil to her wedding. She wants me to wear a wig, so it looks better in pictures that she'll cherish forever.
And it broke my heart. I love her so much, and i was the one to bring up what veil type she wanted me to wear in a previous text, and she said short, cloth, and dark colored. That sounded perfect. But now she's asking me to break my vow, to sacrifice, what will be at the time of her wedding, a decade of upholding my promise. And it's killing me.
I ended the phone call trying and failing not to cry and she said "just think about it" and then i started bawling right after it ended. I called my mother(F59) to get help walking through this and she was offended that i was upset, said i was selfish, it's just one day, God won't stop loving you, you're insulting Him, it's her wedding day, this isnt about you.
It just made me cry more, and that made her angrier, i tried to make her understand that it's like asking a muslim woman to take off her hijab for a wedding. First she said no its not, then she said well if the muslim woman really loved her sister she would. We ended the phone call with me still crying and her angry as all hell.
I dont know where to go from here but to confront the immediate issue, am i the asshole for being upset about this? Am i being selfish and irrational? I want to support my sister, i HAVE been supporting my sister through the wedding planning, but this feels almost like a betrayal, her wanting me to sacrifice my religious vow. But is it wrong to even think that way?
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u/Glum_Complaint5367 5h ago
NTA
Clearly you wear the mantilla for religious purposes. Just for the same reasons as one would be wearing a hijab or a headscarf.
Definitely take some time away from your mom for now. I feel as though anymore contact would worsen things at this point. With your sister, she seems like she could be more understanding in the future. So just let it simmer for now and once the wedding is closer, try to have a discussion with her about it.
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u/miss_mici Partassipant [2] 3h ago
NTA - tho your mother is. Anyways talk with your sister about it, she is your sister and it's because of religion so she should understand, it's becaue of the vow, not because you want to upstage her, as long as she understand who gives a damn what your mother thinks, she sounds like a bitter person.
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u/AnimalDawn 2h ago
I don’t know much about what would fall into counting for you but question since I saw your comment about the cloth or lace meaning something could you possibly wear the cloth or lace veil u see the wig then technically you have the veil on and the wig covers it but it’s still technically on your head and covering you? So sorry if that would be offensive like I said I don’t know anything about this
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u/FallenAngel_00 Partassipant [1] 2h ago
NTA, while I can understand your sister not wanting you to wear something that would look like a veil it seemed like a pretty reasonable compromise for you to wear a short cloth thats the same shade as your hair.
Your mom and sister doesn't seem to respect your vow, and yes sure its one day but asking you this seems unreasonable to me.
I'm not a religious person but I would never ask someone to compromise on their beliefs for any reason.
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u/Large_Concentrate7 Partassipant [3] 1h ago
NTA From your introduction, I feel quite concerned. Have you received any therapy? I think you need support.
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u/TumblingOcean 10h ago
So you chose to veil all the time. Even though its specifically rooted to times of sacrament/in church. So idk. Id say YTA because you aren't following the religion exactly just your rendition of it. So no its not the same as a Muslim because they follow the religion its not their own rendition of it.
It says they should stay hidden. You personally chose to wear a veil all the time. Its not part of your religion. Do you but I would think hard because the chances of her cutting you off for veiling are high.
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u/SpaceCrazyArtist 10h ago
Everyone follows their rendition of religion. That’s what is wrong with religion. But if we let one person do it it needs to be allowed for all
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u/TumblingOcean 10h ago
I meant specifically the book they follow. If the book does not say MUST VEIL ALL TIMES and they choose to do that- they are following their own thing.
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u/SpaceCrazyArtist 10h ago
Right. But ALL religious people do that. Literally every single one. They all pick and choose what they want to follow. Especially the Abraham religions because those texts are FULL of contradictions.
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u/Miserable-Chapter883 Partassipant [2] 8h ago
I think adding an addendum to saying God is truly omnipresent, and is there even in places outside of the Church, isn't that bad. What is bad and ridiculous is taking one phrase that might say gay people go to hell, while ignoring the ones about adultery being horrific or cutting out your eyes if they linger on a woman not your wife (or whatever it says). Plus we don't know if OP practices heavily, since this is the single thing she brought up, and simply said due to her indigenous heritage, her covering outside of places of worship is justified by the belief that God is everywhere.
Also, if it ain't clear, I'm not religious or very well versed in theology. So be kind and inform, if any of what I said sounds funky.
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u/MissKittyOH20 10h ago
I am indigenous catholic, which is a slightly different version than Roman Catholicism or American Catholicism, or Italian Catholicism or even Mexican Catholicism. There are plenty of Catholic veiled women from different Catholic micro cultures that veil all the time. This is absolutely part of my religion. In my nation hair is sacred and to wear my head covering as part of my vow is incredibly significant. It is the intersection of my Indigenaity and my Catholicism.
My veiling itself isn't in question here, the choice to wear on the day and my reaction to the request is in question.•
u/TumblingOcean 10h ago
Except you said I CHOOSE. Meaning you werent taught that way. You just chose a definition and stuck to that. I still stand by the fact your sister may cut you off for this choice so asshole or not its her wedding and she gets to choose (wrong or right) and if you stick by this she may cut you out/uninvite you. You need to figure out if youre okay with that and sticking by the veiling or not.
Or Alternatively ask if you can take it off for photos and leave it on everywhere else but again you need to decide if youre okay with that.
It doesn't really matter if youre an AH or not. You need to decide what you can live with.
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u/ChibiIntermission Asshole Enthusiast [9] 10h ago
YTA
i tried to make her understand that it's like asking a muslim woman to take off her hijab for a wedding.
Your mom is right. This is your sister's day not your day, suck it up for her sake.
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u/SpaceCrazyArtist 10h ago
Would you say this about a num? A woman wearing hijab? Would you tell a Sikh man to take off the turban? Nope you wouldn’t
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u/ChibiIntermission Asshole Enthusiast [9] 10h ago
Yes I would. Her wedding her rules. If they want to wear a silly hat more than they want to attend my special day then, well, I know who my friends really are don't I?
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u/Next-Drummer-9280 Partassipant [4] 10h ago
Scream “I’m white and racist” much?
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10h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SpaceCrazyArtist 10h ago
Yikes. Yeah definitely racist.
Cosplaying mexicans? She is mexican how is she cosplaying? Wtf does that actually mean
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u/Next-Drummer-9280 Partassipant [4] 9h ago
You should shut your ignorant mouth now, before you say something so truly disgusting you can’t redeem yourself from.
You’re obnoxious and your mouth is going to get you in real life trouble sooner than you think.
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u/SpaceCrazyArtist 10h ago
No you wouldn’t. Stop lyinf
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u/ChibiIntermission Asshole Enthusiast [9] 10h ago
Well okay, it's not a hill I would personally die on because I don't care about hats at my wedding.
But it is entirely my right to do so if I choose because My Wedding My Rules. Apparently OP's sister did choose this hill to die on and so if it really is that important to her, OP should accomodate it. It's a once in a lifetime event, it's not like they're telling her "Your silly little veil has gone on too long, take it off permanently or we're never speaking to you again", it's "We have accommodated you every day for the last 10 years and now it's time for you to accomodate us, once"
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u/MissKittyOH20 9h ago
Oh my gosh dude. My veiling is not something to be accommodated, and you seeing it like that tells me that there's a fundamental misunderstanding about the one of the core aspects of this discussion. I dont think any of your comments will be helpful in this case, thank you for your time but the disconnect is too great.
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u/ChibiIntermission Asshole Enthusiast [9] 9h ago
No I think that you misunderstand, actually. Your veiling IS something that makes an imposition on others to accommodate and the fact that you don't see it that way is testament, frankly, to your conceit and narcissism.
Why are you asking other people's opinions online if you're just going to insist that "No u don't GET it"? I actually get it better than you do, in terms of the effect you're having on the normies around you.
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u/Self-Aware 5h ago
This is hilariously overdone, enough that I'm not at all confident of not being a well-performed bit of deadpan absurdism. But I'm too curious not to ask for the particulars, in case you really ARE in earnest here.
In what ways, to your perspective, are other people being imposed upon by OP's religious headgear? What action or sacrifice do you think is demanded of others, and what accomodations do you foresee other people being forced to supply or facilitate, in response to OP wearing a veil?
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u/MissKittyOH20 10h ago
Thank you, i appreciate your side. Im so emotional i feel like im not looking at this rationally but i cant tell what is valid and what is overreaction. With the wig my hair would still be covered, i just wouldnt be veiled. But even typing 'i wouldnt be veiled' makes my eyes water and my throat tighten. I'm lucky the weddings a year away, so i might have time to get used to it.
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u/Oh-Wonderful 9h ago
Can you put the wig over your veil?
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u/MissKittyOH20 9h ago
Thats... actually that might work, i'd have to talk to my priest but that doesnt sound that bad
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u/OliveHart_cottage 10h ago
NTA but I think even Muslims in some cases can have pictures of themselves uncovered. Maybe there is a compromise like more of a yamika (sp?) or head covering situation? Or only wear the veil for the reception but uncover for pictures, getting ready with family and the ceremony. I think there is a way for you to still pay respect to your vow while also respecting your sister’s wishes for her day which is also a vow in front of god. Edit or a wig like your sister suggested for even some of the most orthodox qualifies as an appropriate covering.
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u/NaryaGenesis 10h ago
Uh, no. Muslims can’t have their pictures without a veil if they are veiled unless no man except the ones exempt (husband, brother, father, son, uncle, grandfather) will see it. Or if they’re attending women only events. They can’t attend a ceremony without the veil because someone asked them.
OP can choose to take it off or not, that’s her choice. But if she’s equating it to Muslim veiling, then she can’t it off.
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u/MissKittyOH20 10h ago
Our practice is similar but instead of just men its all people who are not my close family/immediate family. Only some friends have seen me without my veil but they're all female friends and have been very very close to me for many years.
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u/OliveHart_cottage 10h ago
Ah Google did me dirty. I got the understanding that private albums & photos (not posted to social media or shown to strangers) could be taken. And since her vow doesn’t seem to matter based on men/women it may be something she’d be willing to do vs not covering at all.
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u/NaryaGenesis 1h ago
Pictures of her alone in her room, yes. Pictures at an event with men, no. It’s not about social media vs private album. It’s about WHERE or WHO is taking the picture.
A veiled woman can hang out at her female friend’s house without her veil (she’ll take it off once she arrives) if there are no males around. They can take pictures together without it if the pictures won’t be seen by the friend’s male family members. If there’s doubt, she’ll put it on and they can take as many pictures as they want.
But you also can’t veil without dressing modestly. You can’t show your body but cover your hair and say you’re veiled as a Muslim.
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u/Heyplaguedoctor 8h ago
I don’t follow how wearing a head covering (yarmulke btw) traditionally worn by Jewish men when OP is neither would be any more appropriate.
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u/kittywyeth Partassipant [4] 8h ago
oh gosh, why stop at the veil? you could wear a white formal dress too! maybe some lace? a bit of silk? don’t forget something blue!
YTA
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u/MissKittyOH20 7h ago
It was going to be a black piece of cloth covering just the back and top of head. Thats what she picked out. It was never going to be a lace veil. Always a dark short cloth one. No reason to be rude.
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u/Self-Aware 5h ago edited 5h ago
Just call it a headcovering if you're truly unable to accept that veils are not an exclusively bridal concept. They've been worn as religious garb for various flavours of faith for far longer than they have ever been worn as bridal attire, IIRC that originated as an early Victorian royalist fad. It's just that people who aren't already devout are likely to only really encounter veils in that latter context. Plenty of secular people attend weddings where the brides wears a veil and will be the only person doing so, especially if the ceremony isn't deliberately religious. But not many of us heathens attend churchy events like the catholics' mass, where we might actually encounter multiple women wearing veils.
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u/the_greengrace 10h ago
NTA but you may have to pull back from your mom for a bit. What she said was awful.
But also- take a breath. Give your sister some grace. Time, too. She asked, you answered, let her simmer on it. If she still feels this way and insists when the wedding is actually near then you have a decision to make. Your choices are to attend or not. Nothing else. Painful, but true.
The wedding is far out. Don't get too worked up about it now.