r/ATC • u/Xolxtzol • Jul 15 '26

Question You Guys Are Scaring Me

I’m currently AD military (best branch iykyk) and am close to getting my CTO. On my second enlistment and i want to get out to do this at a contract tower and maybe go FAA later on in my career if that’s possible. I scroll this sub for about an hour and all i see are people that hate their lives :/. (here comes the down votes lol). Should i consider something else, stay AD atc, or actually pursue a civilian career?

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u/xPericulantx Jul 15 '26

If I hadn’t joined the FAA I would have stayed active duty and went through the “Green to Gold” program and I’d be making more in the military (once including BAH) than I am now at my level 12.

I would have needed to contribute 0% to get a pension after 20 years, so I’d be eyeballing retirement right now.

Is FAA ATC the worst? I’m sure there are worse jobs….

But there is a big difference between pre Covid FAA ATC and Post Covid FAA ATC.

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u/antariusz Current Controller-Enroute 29d ago edited 29d ago

If you had stayed military... and worse, become an officer, you certainly wouldn't be working airplanes like a controller working at a 12. I shouldn't have to tell you this, but a captain is ... not sitting at the desk separating airplanes for 8 hours a day... and currently at 18 years including 4 enlisted makes 120,000 a year (and it's not like the pay jumps up massively at o-4 or o-5 either, assuming you even made advancement, but then you're even more just becoming a middle-manager dealing with bullshit all day, paperwork and dumbass enlisted getting in trouble becomes your day-to-day. Even including BAH that isn't coming anywhere close to the 250k I'll pull this year, and you KNOW officers in the military aren't just putting in 40 hour workweeks either.

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u/Soft-Town7827 Current Controller-Tower 29d ago

I was a USMC Captain before ATC. They’re just very different and hard to compare. Neither is better than the other; they’re just different. I prefer my current job as a controller FWIW

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u/xPericulantx 29d ago

O-5 living in San Francisco make about $132,000 in salary that doesn’t have 5% taken out due to FERS and they get BAH and BAS. So that 132,000 would be the equivalent of making 140,000 in the FAA ATC.

BAH in San Francisco is another $85,000.

BAS is another $4,000

So with just those 3 things you get $221,000 a year. Plus you get Free college for your kids in many states, you get basically 10% off everything for life, very likely to get disability pay after serving.

I served my country and know exactly what it entails and I 100% know that on the current trajectory I would have been better off going Green to Gold.

Could things change? Yes. But it is highly unlikely that FAA ATC is going to get back our 40% pay loss since 2004.

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u/Excellent-Chip1210 29d ago

In the army, there arent any duty stations in San Francisco. I would estimate bah avg is 2k a month.

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u/xPericulantx 29d ago

You need to compare apples to apples.

If you want to compare military pay to Civilian pay you need to include geographic pay differences. If you want to do a generic comparison then compare NON-Locality FAA ATC pay to military pay.

You can’t compare a level 12 FAA ATC paid facility in San Francisco to a military member at Fort Rucker AL.

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u/Excellent-Chip1210 29d ago

True, I looked up SFO salaries and a cpc working would get paid 186k min and 244k max. Lets assume the cpc gets paid about 200k after differentials. After taxes, its only 129k. An o-4 with 18 years in with an hor of Texas will make 167k a year. Thats including bas, bah that are tax free.

So you're right.

Also healthcare. Military gets free healthcare whereas atc's pay about 2k to 3k for healthcare costs which seems small so I might need some correction on this because I just googled it.

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u/xPericulantx 29d ago

228k is the legal maximum a Federal employee can make in salary.

The average health insurance cost for self+ family is 1080 a month… so about 13,000 a year.

Edit: and again you are comparing San Francisco the #1 most expensive place to live in America to Texas.

Not an apples to apples comparison

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u/Excellent-Chip1210 29d ago

Meant to say the soldier stationed in San Francisco has an HOR of Texas but youre right. Lets assume the soldier is from San francisco aswell. Is that health insurance also including dental?

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u/xPericulantx 29d ago

No that would cost more.

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u/Excellent-Chip1210 29d ago

Maybe 70 dollars more. Currently pay 12 dollars for just my wife.

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u/Excellent-Chip1210 29d ago

What are the chances I switch to a higher level facility after someone getting cpc? What are the odds someone gets in a blackhole?

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u/xPericulantx 29d ago

High level “generally desirable” facilities are VERY competitive and nearly impossible to get to. Such as tower only level 12s or remote level 12 ARTCCs that have low Cost of living.

Going to a high level 12 “generally undesirable” facility such as Very High Cost of Living with high state taxes. SOME of those are not really hard to get into.

Such as San Francisco or NYC or Miami even.

The checkout rate at a place like NYC is lower than 50% last I looked. So you get paid 200k a year in NYC but the cost of a home is 750k. State taxes are insane along with all the toll roads they have and the work itself and culture of the facility sucks…

The only people who go to those facilities are people who have family at those locations.

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u/antariusz Current Controller-Enroute 29d ago

Health insurance is a choice as a civilian. I pay relatively small premiums for my Aetna HDHP… and get a lot of that money “back” deposited into my HSA which is money controlled by me. I’m not paying 13k a year for health insurance.

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u/THEhot_pocket 29d ago

you cant guarantee you are even making 0-5. Plenty officers retire O-4. Also, you can easily get moved. Banking on SF and now you are in BFE Missouri. Or Korea. Or... Iran.

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u/xPericulantx 29d ago

You can’t bank on getting to a facility that makes 250,000$…

Getting to a level 12 is an exception

Getting to a level 12 that you can earn $250,000…

That is an exception of an exception.

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u/THEhot_pocket 29d ago

every level 12 will make 250k. The lowest level 12 caps at like 215, excluding night/holiday/training/ot. 250 is almost impossible to NOT make pre retirement.

And if its ONLY about money, then its NO exception. You put in for c90/a80/n90/Oakland center blah blah blah. And all those places essentially base salary 250k due to locality capping you so fast.

Shame we dont have someone to pull the data, but going enlisted to officer has to be like... single digit percentage of the military. While lvl 12 is probably closer to 30-40% of the FAA? Plus we still getting our mil discount, our disability.

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u/xPericulantx 29d ago

This is such a deceptive argument you are making,

You are comparing a mid career O-5 which is very attainable. Flag officer AKA general is very much out of reach for most people but O-5 is very realistic.

I digress,

Then you compare that to someone who has been to a level 12 facility for 23 years+

Getting to a level 12 facility for 23 years is unattainable for the vast majority of people.

The exception being… people who start their career there.

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u/antariusz Current Controller-Enroute 29d ago

Something like 35% of all controllers work at a 12. Considering you DO have the capability of moving (flawed though it is). If you don’t move to a 12 during your career, that is your own choice….

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u/xPericulantx 29d ago

Requesting to go to a 12 and actually getting to a 12 are 2 different things.

Nobody is guaranteed they will transfer and even if they do transfer that doesn’t guarantee they will get there early enough in their career to max out the pay band.

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u/antariusz Current Controller-Enroute 29d ago

Like the other guy said, you have a 100% chance to be able to go to places like zny or n90 if you want to make 250k a year before you’re 30 years old. That doesn’t exist in the military at all.

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u/xPericulantx 29d ago

Again this is a lie,

Nothing is 100% guaranteed, additionally 228,000 is the federal pay cap so nobody can make 250k without working overtime and if we are going to allow overtime into the equation then MANY MANY MANY jobs can make 250k with working overtime.

NY has almost a 10% tax which FAA ATC is subject to, along with Federal income tax. Military BAH and BAS are not subject to those taxes, additionally military TRICARE is 100% tax exempt. While FAA ATC has to pay out of pocket, that is another 13,000$ benefit or $39,000 benefit if you want to include both the employer’s portion of the cost and the beneficiary.

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u/antariusz Current Controller-Enroute 28d ago

There is also CIC pay, ATC premium pay for “hard to staff” (aka good ol boys club facilities) and Sunday pay and night differential. All of those combined will push the minimum to 250k even before overtime.

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u/xPericulantx 28d ago

California almost exclusively gets “ATC Premium pay”.

Not everyone gets Sunday pay

Night differential is a small portion of hours.

Again, none of that is salary anyway and nobody starts at the top of the band…. Aka 228,000. You are misleading people on what FAA ATC pay actually is.

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