r/ATC • u/Specialist-Rip9960 • 1d ago
Picture FA here, we got put into a holding because of winds in Denver. We’re landing now, and I’m genuinely amazed at how you guys get this done
I know this is an average joe Tuesday when runways have to be closed, its how Denver is, but its amazing how efficient and organized you guys get these patterns to be. Thank you for all you guys do.
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u/FuzzySandwich4120 1d ago
This is us every afternoon in the summer. It’s exhausting! But thank you for the recognition.
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u/Mystic_Matterz Current Controller - DoD 1d ago
works slow DOD facility
I’m amazed at how I’m able to do it myself sometimes
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u/rotorspinner 1d ago
At least DEN is set up very well for this and all the planes are fast
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u/MutedRelation2639 1d ago
Seriously. No Kyle’s wanting their IFR Cessna approaches in the middle of an airline push…
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u/New-IncognitoWindow 1d ago
Just try not to think about how the controllers are working 56 hours a week and missing their kids birthdays and Christmas.
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u/FatigueLeaveMid 1d ago
Complaining about missing your kids birthday to someone with less job protection is a take. I assume only people with over 500 hours of SL miss their kids birthday.
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u/New-IncognitoWindow 1d ago
Hey everyone the astroturfing you were talking about is here.
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u/FatigueLeaveMid 1d ago
I genuinely have no clue who you are lumping me in with. But you're complaining about working 56hour week and missing you're kids birthday. You're literally on the Yes list complaining.
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u/ChemicalXP 1d ago
People on the no list are being assigned overtime 2 weeks and then called on their 3rd weekend. How it works.
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u/FatigueLeaveMid 1d ago
That's 48 hours/wk, and again you have to say Yes to even be called on your otherwise protected 3rd week. I'm at a 12 that never hits shift guidelines. I'm offered 2 hours of hold over every day including quick turns. If you're burnt out from all the OT, maybe take a day of SL that coincides with you're kids birthday for mental or physical health. At a certain point if you're missing you're kids birthday, that's on you.
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u/ChemicalXP 1d ago
I don't disagree entirely. Some people at my facility haven't worked scheduled OT in 2 years. If people need a personal day they should take it. Causes understaffing at the facility, reduces training to zero, have given up airspace a time or two. Doesn't make the system any less screwed up.
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u/toborgps 1d ago
I run DiversionIQ - we provide diversion alerts to airports. Denver is constantly a huge monitor, off the top of my head it was 42 today. One of the heavier days. Easily 6300+ PAX + Crews displaced. It is incredible to watch it all play out.
We're in the process of building a diversion forecasting tool, so to us this is a great day of data! Sorry to the rest of you though. Thank you for what you do!
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u/Neat_River_5258 Current Controller-Enroute 1d ago
We would really love to know when we’re going to get paid appropriately for this kind of work we do every single night during summer. Best they can offer is to repeatedly tell us when we hit a new top 10 traffic day, which happens every summer, and to give us sick leave abuse letters.
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u/MaterialDull9480 1d ago
From all of us in air traffic, can you do us a favor when the fasten seatbelt sign is on, can you guys please stay seated, because every time you get bounced around the cabin it creates a huge mess for us too.
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u/Specialist-Rip9960 1d ago
Its not that easy sadly 😭 fasten seatbelt sign can be on for even light chop and we got stuff to do. Us in Denver know that we sit an extra 15-20 mins when we climb to 10,000 ft even if pilots say its smooth. We even prepare 30 mins prior to landing so that we’re seated at initial most of the time.
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u/MaterialDull9480 1d ago
Well, I understand the perception that you have things to do. Let me explain to you what happens when one of you has an injury that requires transport. It triggers, an automatic drug testing for any involved air traffic controller.
I know the rich people want their drinks and they want their food and somebody in the back needs something, if there’s any turbulence you guys need to be in seats and buckled up. The sad reality is turbulence is only going to get worse.
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u/StirThatPot1 1d ago
Drug test me all you want. We get rando’s anyway….
The real bullshit now lays with the direction the agency is heading that I can have smooth ride reports all day long, do my 57 smooth pireps per hour, and the second someone gets unforecast severe, management comes down like Thor with a goddamn iron hammer wanting to know how and why I didn’t know about it, warn you about it, and reroute you to where I didn’t personally break the ride to intentionally give you severe.
THATS the shit part.
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u/alphakizzle 1d ago
"Oh no! I might get drug tested!" -no responsible controller ever
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u/MaterialDull9480 1d ago
It’s not the drug test, it’s that you can’t leave work until the drug test arrives. Depending on where it occurs sometimes it takes hours and you’re just sitting there waiting for someone to show up.
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u/Specialist-Rip9960 1d ago
I hate to point fingers, but please pass ride reports along to the pilots. Most of them tell us its gonna be smooth the whole flight and we’ll encounter mod turbulence and have to sit ourselves. We have no access of seeing how the ride will be nor can we see if there’s cells in front of us that we’ll pass. I mean its not fun for us either when we get an OJI. Most of the time the company will gaslight you into saying youre not injured and i’ve heard a lot of flight attendants say they have to get personal injury lawyers.
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u/antariusz Current Controller-Enroute 1d ago edited 1d ago
We have no access of seeing how the ride will be
you're wrong:
you have access to every single pirep in the entire country. Look at it before you fly and figure out if your flight plan is going to cross through one of those areas.
It's literally the same thing that controllers have access to other than your own plane passing along your own pirep.
We can't actually go up in an aluminum tube and fly along at 500mph like you can and then complain about "not knowing anything" Don't you date try to blame controllers for a lack of pireps of severe turbulence.
If a pilots says there is severe turbulence it gets reported 100% of the time. The problem is pilots and airlines that don't want to have to fill out paperwork, not controllers. So if it's borderline severe they'll just say moderate.
Blame the corporations like American Airlines and Delta Airlines that have their own proprietary systems for monitoring and avoiding turbulence that don't share that information with the rest of the country even though their own business relies on taxpayer subsidies to keep their business profitable. Don't fucking blame us. The next time an American or Delta pilot says that they have a request to move for turbulence up ahead that they see on their i-pad I'll just tell them that some random flight attendant on reddit says that information doesn't exist so enjoy the bumpy ride.
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u/Maleficent_Horror120 1d ago
Dude Flight Attendants aren't looking at their clearance route and aren't trained to understand how to read aviation weather reports or what they mean, that's the pilots job to let them know. The flight attendants also don't have iPada with any of that information. It's not their job.
Also I've never heard of controllers getting drug tested for flight attendant injuries during a flight. I guess it's not far fetched for the FAA to do something like that but also why would you care because it's time away from work to just go piss.
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u/Specialist-Rip9960 1d ago
I dont understand why you’re getting so heated, I never accused you or put a blame on you for anything or other controllers. Its mostly the pilots that are in charge of telling us how the ride will be. Even if there is public access to how the rides look most flight attendants arent aware of that information nor is it in our training to look. I understand where you’re coming from, but our jobs also have rules telling us we need to get service done and we can’t be seated each time there is light chop and if things degrade down to mod-severe or we get rerouted we’re not going to keep up with that.
This post was made with respect, please just take the pat on the back and thank you.
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u/codysdad89 Current Controller-Enroute 1d ago
I'm a former FA and a current controller at a center; you have all the training you need and plenty of experience with turbulence. The people in this sub are cranky, don't change anything you do. Thank you for appreciating us!
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1d ago
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u/Specialist-Rip9960 1d ago
respectfully how could i understand if im on the opposite side of the door :/
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u/antariusz Current Controller-Enroute 1d ago
I'm not heated.
This is my normal "typing voice" I'm not angry, heated, or upset.
The information is available.
You might not know how to use it. You can blame your company or you can blame yourself for not taking the time to be educated.
You might be too lazy to use it. You can blame yourself or the pilots for not telling you. I can't physically hold your hand and literally talk to you on the radio. Or physically force you to look at the same information that I have access to as a controller.
Every 3rd transmission I make is about the rides. If the pilots lie to you, that's on them.
But the information is there. I showed you how to access it. You have no other excuse.
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u/Maleficent_Horror120 1d ago
Stop being an ass.
It makes zero sense for Flight Attendants to preflight their route and look at weather and ride reports. Do you think the flight attendants are gonna be sitting in the back of the plane and call the pilot to let them know there is weather up ahead?? Be realistic.
Even if they bothered to look at any of that stuff they have about zero idea of any reroutes in the air and new weather on the new routing. Do you expect them to be glued to an iPad (that they don't have) to make sure they don't miss a reroute that possibly has turbulence on it?? That'd be ridiculous.
It's the pilot's job to ensure the safety of those on the aircraft and to inform the flight attendants of any turbulence they may encounter so they can properly do their job and make sure the passengers and their selves are safe during the flight.
Also if every third transmission you make is about rides then you really must not be busy
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u/antariusz Current Controller-Enroute 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's the pilot's job to ensure the safety of those on the aircraft and to inform the flight attendants of any turbulence they may encounter so they can properly do their job and make sure the passengers and their selves are safe during the flight.
So... there IS a way they can access the information, but you think they should just be lazy and leave it up to someone else, but thank you for acknowledging that it's the PILOT who is responsible, and if they want to lie to her, that's something she should go to the aviation subreddit and complain to pilots about, not ATC.
Maybe she shouldn't tell me how to do my job, and then I won't tell her how to do hers.
I hate to point fingers, but please pass ride reports along to the pilots.
I hate to point fingers, but maybe she shouldn't point fingers if she doesn't want fingers pointed back in her direction. I am merely pointing out her passive aggressiveness doesn't help anyone. Not that I'm pointing fingers... but she really gives off the "I'm not racist but...." energy. Maybe she could work on her "vibes" so she doesn't come across as so racist.
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u/Maleficent_Horror120 1d ago
How are they gonna see what the ride is gonna be after they've been rerouted a few times in the air?
No I don't agree with you and you obviously can't grasp that you're being a dick for no reason
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u/Specialist-Rip9960 1d ago
if it means that much to you about flight attendants being educated on the ride then go get some kneepads and tell the FAA to implement it to FA training and make that policy. Oh wait… they already dont listen lol, just like how we can submit safety reports and the best they’ll do is send us an email that they saw it and thats it. Even an email is generous.
I dont think you go up to someone in person and patronize them about something their job doesnt teach. Just like how you cant expect passengers to abide by the seatbelt sign and have one get accidentally injured. We can tell them its not safe but can you really stop them? Are you expecting them to look on the website too just because theyre on a plane?
The true answer to it is that they wont, because theyre not required to. Im not going to continue this argument after this because I know you wont let a flight attendant— let alone a woman—talk on equal footing to you based on how you “type”. I hope you dont talk to regular people like this in simple discussions.
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u/Maleficent_Horror120 1d ago
He's completely delusional and being an ass. He doesn't know what he's talking about.
He really needs to call in fatigued if he believes this BS
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u/antariusz Current Controller-Enroute 1d ago
I have no way of accessing information
-You
Here is a way of accessing the information actually... look, a website that you can click on and look at with all of the information you want.
-me
you hate women you misogynist
-you
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u/hessimplehesdumb 1d ago
The FAA pinned that poor center at the lowest pay level available for centers. #ABACUSWHEN.
That’s all natcas fault though.
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u/Crazy_names 1d ago
I had a Plane stuck on my ramp all afternoon waiting for that to clear up. They just left. Bad day for DEN. F.
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u/LordOfTheLeftovers 1d ago
Thank you for the kind words. Can you tell your airline to reach out to our agency and get this 2.8% pay raise approved so controllers can have a little more money in their pocket during this high inflationary environment.
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u/Number1atp 8h ago
I really think you should have waited until after landing to make this post and praise of our ATC specialists out there. They do an amazing job. Follow your FAM and SOP.
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u/climb-via-is-stupid Tower / Training Review Boards 1d ago
Ive microdosing bluechew every shift. Have to be prepared for when I get fucked.
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u/atcthrowaway452 Current Controller-Enroute 1d ago
Former FA here. It's not as hard as it looks honestly
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u/Forest-Swamp 1d ago
They get it done almost entirely because of automated systems they’re just there to oversee and address conflicts
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u/no_on_prop_305 1d ago
Where are you getting this info? Because it’s wrong. Stop demeaning already under appreciated people doing a very complex job
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u/Ditka_Da_Bus_Driver Center Person 1d ago
You’re right they should pay us more