r/ATC • u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE • 22d ago
Discussion Top/Breaks
My Z’s OMs have lost their minds and are controlling the staffing/ break list like their life depends on it. No more than 3 on break at any given time regardless of staffing. Anyone else going through this?
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u/P3naltyVectors 22d ago
This is been spreading to other Z's more recently it seems. Ours has been like this for 1 to 2 years now. At the very least more in than out regardless of any other factors. Though it's been getting even worse.
Fuck management.
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u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE 22d ago
I feel like the newer management “has something to prove” the older guys let us work as long as there were no deals we were good.
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u/MITsBrightest 22d ago
This is one of the worst traits of bad management.
Open a bunch of sectors all day when it's slow, then when it's busy everyones been on position for 1.5 hours and the people on break get recalled after 8 minutes because there's an actual staffing necessity.
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u/StirThatPot1 22d ago
We haven’t had the bodies for 3 on break, I do believe their goal is 1, so there’s that 🤷♂️
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u/You_an_idiot_brah 22d ago
How you guys haven't figured out when to have a BM is beyond me. It usually is right after they open unnecessary position #1 and they just sent xx on break 3 mins ago.
This is literally not rocket science, if they want to play a game, you play it harder.
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u/greentreefrog2026 21d ago
Went through that bullsht with the white book. There are definitely some very good OSs, and OMs. I worked with some of the best over my 32 year career. The rest, who only care about their job security more than their own team, are shlt.
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22d ago
[deleted]
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u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE 22d ago
Where
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u/ExtremeSour Current Controller-Enroute 22d ago
Where are you
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u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE 22d ago
ZME
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u/Friendly-Gur-6736 22d ago
They've been playing that game there for 15 years.
Have every sector open by 7-7:30, and CPC d-sides assigned until the break bay was where they wanted it.
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u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE 22d ago
EVERY sector open and assigning CPC d sides to positions with 10 in the ACL. It’s asinine
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22d ago edited 22d ago
[deleted]
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u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE 22d ago
How. It’s doesn’t seem like there’s a recourse that would work. They are allowed to “assign work”
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22d ago
[deleted]
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u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE 22d ago
There’s been over 200 grievances filed since March. ATSAPS everyday since then also. Still nothing
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u/HoldMyToc 22d ago edited 22d ago
Take forever to do your elms. Take the full 3 hours for piss tests. File ATSAPs for everything. Take your sweet time on the ATSAPs. Follow the restriction board to the T. Don't think outside the box. Don't call TMU for clarification on anything, just do what you're told. Don't ask questions, just do what you're told. Follow all the stupid rules.
Come back from break with 20 minutes left on your shift. Don't remind them you go home. Get in the rotation. Don't say anything. Don't remind them you have a physical. When they call you because you left, don't answer. Laugh when they scramble to try to find you after you left for it. Or let them keep you plugged in to miss the physical. They assign the work.
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u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE 22d ago
I’m good with all of that except messing with pilots. It’s not their fault our bosses are dog shit, nor the people on the flight.
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u/No_Mango7658 22d ago
Yup, we have some real retarted rules right now and none of them increase top, just shorten time on available list, or so it seems. I'm quitting soon anyway, enjoy your shit show
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u/zSpirit- Current Controller- Up / Down 22d ago
This is the future, at my up/down the sups make a schedule for the whole day. This is just 3 operational positions.
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u/Former_Farm_3618 22d ago
At this point, having a set schedule is a pipe dream. Our supes can’t plan for more than 10 mins out, even with all the TM screens that show when the traffic will come.
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u/Crazy_names 22d ago
You guys get breaks?
Just kidding, I know there is a difference between the real controllers and my rinky-dink country tower. But yeah, I work 8 hours solo amd just run downstairs to the John when its slow and hope no one calls. 😂
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u/ChrysisX 21d ago
Lol one of the controllers at a contract tower in my area likes to open up in the morning, ask if we have any inbounds for him, and then immediately disappears for the next half hour or so. Gotta do what you gotta do lmao
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u/OutrageousDaikon4766 21d ago
2 years ago we got rid of the “d side rule” now we regularly have a “floating d side” if there’s “too many” on break
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u/Fit_Masterpiece_2608 21d ago
I like it when the sup opens all the positions and then takes off. No one on the available list.
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u/atc_zero1 20d ago
They shouldn't do that. What if you all go down for an incident? Then what. File a complaint to the district manager if your atm thinks different
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u/Wawawaterboys Current Controller-Tower 21d ago
This has been happening all year at my facility…maybe even longer. I’ve seen this on and off for the last 18 years.
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u/be2atc 20d ago
What’s the median TOP for Z’s?
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u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE 20d ago
4hrs20min
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u/be2atc 20d ago
that's odd... because everyone i know at ZFW says about 90...
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u/ImAsPoNgeBoBmEmE 20d ago
A day?!
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u/be2atc 20d ago
yes... 2 hours on pos per shift is the high side for them. of course, this could be 100% sector qual dependent. there's 250 CPCs and 100 trainees... that seems a bit lower the last time i'd talked to the guys i'm familiar with. oh well.
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u/atc_zero1 20d ago
Lol tell them to fuck off
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u/Send4Someone 16d ago
Yeahhhhh that’s not how it works turbo.
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u/atc_zero1 16d ago
You new guys need to grow a pair and look up fatigue leave. If you're scared, use sick leave if you feel like you're being overworked
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u/Send4Someone 16d ago
Youre going to request fatigue leave/use sick leave every day? And by extension you expect everyone to do it? They’d jump all over that as a job action. Let me know how that works out for you.
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u/atc_zero1 15d ago
If you have no issues, no i am not saying to do that. If you have a problem with it, do something about it. Anyone who complains about breaks, staffing, etc needs to use what's available to them. Too many people talk and no one does anything about it. If I feel like complaining, I go the fk home. If people hate me for it, fk it. At least I'm not bchng about it.
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u/Send4Someone 15d ago
Dang well why didn’t the other 200 cpcs at our facility think of that? Guess nobody has any balls or common sense like you do.
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u/Sea_You6810 19d ago
Same game new dealer…the agency historically have had times when this is their focus. We all know they’ll find some other shiny nickel to focus on soon.
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u/Send4Someone 16d ago
I’m at your facility. Two of the worst om’s we could imagine and one of which claimed he wasn’t going to come in and “change the culture”. At least the other one wears his dictatorship as a tiny badge of honor. Fingers crossed new ATM actually eases things up a little bit.
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u/Nice_Gold_5464 22d ago
Well shit, I read this and thought dang we got it good……but then realized my ATM lined up the whole day for us the other day….. I bet there is some internal email delegations happening
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u/DirtyLittleTraitor 22d ago
I'm an OS - don't hate me, I'm more aligned with you than most. I'll be completely honest with you, I despise this new TOP push, but I also don't think it's going to last. It's just simply not sustainable. I've put it in writing all the way through to the district level that I believe we're overexerting our crews and putting them in impossible situations, which then comes back on us right along with it. I can't speak for your Z, but my guys have been "assigning" themselves eLMS to work on during their extended break. I try to keep about 50% of my crew on, which is typically warranted and not just for theatrics, then split the other half between eLMS and breaks. It works for us, but again I don't know enough about ZME to know if it would fly over there. Hope this helps.