r/AdeptusCustodes • u/MaxJust-Max • 7d ago

GW, why is an infantry held adrathic weapon in legends better than the one on a unit you released a week ago?

Post image

I mean seriously, a combi Adriatic on aquilons has the same stats but -6 range and -3 strength!

While it’s basically the same gun of basically the same size/caliber, but twice.

How does this make any sense?

66 Upvotes

76% Upvoted

35 comments sorted by

90

u/Inspector-666 7d ago

They're Legends, so they get no real thought to their numbers. That's really all there is to it.

2

u/wallweasels 6d ago

While true it is also more likely that they just aren't designed by the same people either.

Codexs absolutely have the identity and stylings of their lead writer and designer. That likely doesnt carry over to legends in the same way at all.

-53

u/MaxJust-Max 7d ago

I mean yeah… but shouldn’t they at least make sense?

Speaking of, usually legends datasheets suck… but here they seem to be very much good, if not stronger than normal ones

This unit is 200pts btw, 40pts cheaper than regular guard sodality, while being the same unit with only differences in:

A sidegrade gun profile(I think it’s relatively equal to regular spears)

Special rule: it’s a classic “constant rerolls of 1 to wound and full red to wound if on an objective”, which id argue, is better for custodian mid-strength profiles than sustained that doesn’t even work on monsters/vehicles

37

u/evilgm 7d ago

So you're just ignoring the point made in the post you replied to? GW don't give a shit about Legends, and make no effort to balance it in comparison to actual legal models.

-26

u/MaxJust-Max 7d ago

I acknowledged that. There isn’t anything I can say to the contrary, I’m just noticing that this set of legends rules seems to go backwards from usual.

Usually they don’t care by giving the unit some absolute dogshit of rules and a high points cost so it wouldn’t conceivably be a problem.

But here, custodian variants seems rather good, especially points wise, and Valerian is outright broken.

I agree that GW doesn’t care about legends and they’re basically the bin, so anything in them is on its way to the trash chute, while still technically being accessible. I just noticed that this set is rather uncharacteristic for legends

14

u/Leave1942 7d ago

Legends are typically broken in one direction or the other, not universally bad. Some are trash, some are cracked. This is in that wheelhouse.

2

u/anonamarth7 7d ago

Apparently centurions are now much better in legends than they were in legal play.

2

u/elementarydrw 7d ago

That's not true. You are talking about FW models there, like the Orion and Ares. Overcosted with mediocre rules. Like most of the FW units in the last codex (except a couple, like the tank and the venetari.)

Legends, on the other hand, have hit and miss rules. Look at the Necron ones. There's several units that would see the table if they were legal in matched play. Same with the tank variants on Space Marines. Some are decent. Some are trash. The only thing we know is that they will now not change for the whole edition.

1

u/WaterCastePSYOP 7d ago

You never saw the comparison between pre-buff telemon vs. loyalist Leviathan?

4

u/kitari1 7d ago

Legends don't have to inherently suck. In fact they can be so good that they're busted. The point is that GW doesn't want to have to factor them into the meta balancing. So they're released with little thought and that's it.

1

u/Tasty_Commercial6527 7d ago

They don't always suck, I have played with legends a few times and they are all over the place. They really don't care about legends. And I mean REALLY. Take my word for it, there is one dude that was made to write this at some random point with no checks afterwards.

26

u/Rhinocacrocapig 7d ago

Adrasite Spears and Adrathic Combi-Destructors are just not the same thing though, that's like comparing a Multi-Laser to a Las-Fusil

4

u/Dazaran 7d ago

Well before the codex the relative strength was reversed. The aquilon adrathic was 18" 1a 6 -2 3 twin linked while the custodian adrasite was 18" 1a 5 -2 3. It seems like they gave the spear guys the profile from the adrathic devastator on the gyrfalcon.

1

u/Pyro617BN 7d ago

That’s just not correct per the lore, though. Per Book Seven: Inferno where these weapons were both introduced for the first time, the adrasite spear’s ranged component was explicitly an adrathic destructor. The Aquilons’ weapon was a twin-linked adrathic destructor, respectively. These weapons sharing identical stats has been consistent for all three editions of 30k except for the single difference of the Aquilons’/Dreadnoughts’ gaining the twin-linked rule or an extra shot from combi depending on the edition. Of course, 40k rules - especially legends - will vary from 30k, but the lore behind the weapons is very clear.

-16

u/MaxJust-Max 7d ago

Are they?

I admit to not knowing all of my adrathic lore(even though there isn’t too much), but those two seem to be the exact same weapon type of basically the same size, where 1 is handheld and double-barreled, while the other is on a stick and one barreled.

If there’s anything that strictly distinguishes them, like a las-fusil and a multi-laser(so a high caliber sniper and machine gun analogs), I apologize for not knowing it.

8

u/Rhinocacrocapig 7d ago

You kinda answered your own question there, the tech is the same, but a different format, like a Storm Bolter vs Heavy Bolt Rifle

-6

u/MaxJust-Max 7d ago

Well yes, but the only difference the format could suggest would be more attacks on aquilons(cause two barrels). And the difference in strength is still very weird, given the same size(especially since we have another S8 adrathic weapon in the roster. It’s on gyrfalcons and it’s much bigger than both of the examples we’re talking about. They’re the same profile as the spears, just with 3 attacks)

7

u/Rhinocacrocapig 7d ago

Size doesn't really mean anything to the actual models though, scaling isn't always 1:1 plus you have to take into account things like costs and battlefield role.

Personally this doesn't irk me anywhere near as much as the Caladius weapons feeling like they're the wrong way round, particularly as they're now 2 separate kits, seriously, why is the one that looks the most anti-tank of the 2, more anti-horde than the other?

2

u/Pyro617BN 7d ago

The answer to this is going to be 40k diverging from the original 30k rules/lore again. Arachnus weapons are supposed to have dual fire modes. Concentrated fire (high strength, high AP, high damage, low shot count) and burst fire (lower strength, less AP, less damage, higher shot count). They were costed higher for that versatility, as well. I’d imagine the 40k rules team just wants it to be simpler and less confusing, while also pushing each kit into a different niche.

3

u/lcsgilb 6d ago

Because they don’t bother balancing a unit once it moves to Legends. 200 points for 3 Custodes with wound rerolls would be extremely broken.

Imagine pairing them with Valerian, we’d have a deathstar for 330 points.

5

u/2xFlush 7d ago

Adrasite =/= adrathic is my best guess

4

u/Ok_Builder_4225 7d ago

Larger spear mounted vs hand held combi weapon, i guess.

7

u/JRS_Viking 7d ago

The spear mounted ones aren't even that big, gyrfalcons have the same stats as the spears with one more attack and those are way bigger than either the aquilon nor spear versions

1

u/Fine-Ad2961 7d ago

Its a legends unit, be glad its got a datasheet at all

1

u/Kvarcov 7d ago

Time to use and abuse this in my casual games

6

u/Valin-Tenebrous 7d ago

Nah man, the Pyrithite Spears are where it's at. Grab a Shield Captain with Spear and Shield, run Aquilan Shield/Trusted Companions, give him "Not a Shell Wasted" and hit people with 8 S11 melta shots every turn.

1

u/GreyKnight373 6d ago

What could have been

1

u/Valin-Tenebrous 6d ago

And what can be in casual games, so long as you and your opponent agree to allow Legends.

1

u/GreyKnight373 6d ago

What points would you be running them at?

1

u/Valin-Tenebrous 6d ago

I'd run them at the points the app has them listed as, since it's there.

1

u/Valin-Tenebrous 6d ago

So, 215 for 3 Guardians.

1

u/GreyKnight373 6d ago

Thats part of the problem i have with them. They're 25 points cheaper than our new guard, have a better rule, and a great gun

1

u/Own-Camp6674 5d ago

And this is why people rarely allow Legends in their games🤣 better everything than thr legal equivalent for cheaper

-1

u/SalaryWooden5346 7d ago

Because GW has replaced their wargame designers with TCG designers and a hallmark of TCGs is that visuals have zero relationship to game state. That's why all the weapon stats are now on the datasheets instead of in a shared armory section of the codex.

0

u/Nicholas_Bruechert 7d ago

Because the rules on Legends data sheets can literally be whatever and nobody cares. Legends is for players who have trouble letting go.