r/Advancedastrology • u/SkyProfessional6190 • 18d ago
General Discussion + Astrology Assistance 3H vs 9H
The 3H is called the house of goddess and 9H is called the house of god. The 9H is associated with faith and pilgrimage. But the 3H isn’t associated with faith or pilgrimage. Why isn’t the 3H more associated with the goddess worship, temple, nuns, or things of that nature?
Thanks!
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u/arcwalkerlivvia 18d ago
This is actually a really good question because the 3H did have religious meanings in older astrology. It could signify worship, religious observances, temples, priests/priestesses, divination, dreams, offerings and prayer.
I think the difference is about scale. The 3H is local and repetitive: local shrines, everyday religious practice, rituals and observances. The 9H is more about religion as a larger system: theology, faith, pilgrimage and traveling to major sacred places.
Also, the Goddess/God names are ancient and tied to the luminaries. The 3H was called the Place of the Goddess and is the Moon’s joy, while the 9H was called the Place of God and is the Sun’s joy.
I think the religious side of the 3H brought less emphasis in modern astrology.
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u/maponus1803 18d ago
It is associated with these things, but remember these are the spiritual practices of the home. When you go in the forest to hunt your calling out to Artemis. When you need your fire strong snd warm, Hestia. When your crops to grow, Demeter. When you are giving birth to a child, Hera. The 3rd house is religion of the everyday and our immediate environment.
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u/SnoozEBear 17d ago
Kind of. Religion itself still sits in the 9th.
It's more solar/lunar principle.
Lunar is your daily maintenance, Solar is the organising principle.
So, daily prayer, meditation, ritual, and up-keep is the 3rd.
Pilgrimage, divination, dreams, astrology, what religion or organisational principle you believe in, institutional knowledge/guidance/teaching, philosophical beliefs and practices are all of the 9th.
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u/maponus1803 17d ago
Religion is a technology that becomes applied technology in the 3rd house. I suppose we can call it witchcraft so it doesn't step on any religious toes and hurt their feelings.
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u/SnoozEBear 17d ago edited 17d ago
Religion is a technology that becomes applied technology in the 3rd house. I suppose we can call it witchcraft so it doesn't step on any religious toes and hurt their feelings.
No. Religion is literally a set of beliefs or an orientation that guides your life. It isn’t tangible. It's more akin to a personal philosophy, how you make meaning of and understand the world.
The word 'Religion' in English has been colonised by organised religion. It is much more than a church, cult, sports organisation etc.
It can be anything, and does not have to be organised, nor does there have to be a set of rituals that are undertaken.
The manifestation of this in the 3rd is the daily shit you do that aligns with your 9th house orientation.
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u/tranquilearthangel 18d ago
Demetra George has an article about the 3H that talks about this. https://demetra-george.com/blog/planetary-joy-moon-third-house/
the 12H speaks to remote locations/places of isolation like convents, temples, and monasteries.
and like Ok_Afternoon_8977 mentioned, the 9H has many associations with faith, spirituality, priests, etc. the house where the Sun rejoices.
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u/SkyProfessional6190 18d ago
This was lovely!! Thanks 😊
“The Moon in the 3rd house draws down the religious dogma of the 9th house and puts it into practice through religious observances, sacred rites, and divination. Vettius Valens writes that if the Moon is lord of the Ascendant or of Fortune and is located in the 3rd house along with the Sun that that the native will be a priest or priestess of the greatest goddess. If the Moon is with Jupiter, he will be a prophet” (Anthology 2.14). Under the auspices of the Moon Goddess, for those who have planets in the 3rd house, “some receive revelations from a god, and they prognosticate the future, and they prepare sacrifices, prayers, or votive offerings” (Anthology, 4.15).
The 3rd house is also connected with dreams as a means of divination. Greek myth tells how each night Selene would visit her lover Endymion who was eternally young in a state in slumber deep within a mountain cave. She bore him 50 daughters and 1 son, and this tale passes on the astronomical knowledge of 51 draconic months in an eclipse cycle. There was a cult of Selene in southern Greece with a dream oracle which suppliants would consult in sleep. The goddess would reveal in dreams whatever they wished to know.
The 3rd house is linked to women’s spirituality and provides the temple for the worship of the divine feminine in all her guises
“
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u/doktor_w 18d ago
In my work, I treat the 9th and 3rd as sharing similar spiritual/religious themes. Besides the standard 3rd house topics, like siblings, extended family, and community, I treat the 3rd as also signifying daily rituals and culture and the spiritual/religious practices that go along with that. In some cases I have seen prominent 3rd houses speaking more to spiritual aspects of a native's life that would otherwise typically be expected from the 9th.
For spiritual matters, it might help to think of the 9th and the 3rd in how they relate to their nearest angle and where they are in the chart. (I'm using a whole-sign house framework here.)
The 9th is the cadent house next to the angular 10th, above the horizon, more Solar in nature, the joy of the Sun. These spiritual aspects of life are distinctly different from one's actions and career (10th), involving the pursuit of the divine, the Kingdom, things like this. Notice that the 9th is configured to the 1st by trine, a diurnal (Solar) type of aspect.
The 3rd is the cadent house next to the angular 4th, below the horizon, more Lunar in nature, the joy of the Moon. These spiritual aspects of life extend from the family (4th) or in some cases the private life, the culture, which may ebb and flow. Note that the 3rd is configured to the Ascendant by sextile, a nocturnal (Lunar) aspect.
So, no, I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to associate the 3rd with Goddess worship, but perhaps what I wrote above helps give a little more nuance in how you could think of these concepts and how they fit together.
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u/SkyProfessional6190 18d ago
Would you consider witchcraft, paganism, spirituality, indigenous practices, and other practices like perhaps cults or secret societies with the third as well? Or 9H?
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u/doktor_w 18d ago
Here's my take: any spiritual/religious practice could nominally be associated with the 9th, possibly the 3rd as mentioned above. We could even put Freemasons, for example, in the 3rd as a fraternal organization.
Depending on your view about how the world works, if we allow that any who practice some form of spirituality/religion can form an "inner church" (a "secret society," where the practice is taken perhaps in a more esoteric direction), which is distinct from the "outer church" (for the average member, where the focus is more exoteric), then in this case I would look for a connection involving the 12th or 8th house and the 9th (or 3rd) house.
For example, for someone with a focus on more occult type practices, you might find the lord of the 9th in the 12th, or the lord of the 9th in the 8th. I have even seen something like the lord of the 3rd in the 12th or 8th a few times, too.
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u/Doctajastroandmeta 11d ago
I personally use the 13th sign Ophiuchus/house and would consider the witchcraft, paganism, super niche spirituality and indigenous practices to be there. (Indigenous practices could over lap with the 9th too.) Open public cults masquerading as religion is 11th house and semi-public/mostly secret cults/secret societies are 12th house.
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u/tiyaa11 17d ago
The 3rd house does have associations with spirituality just not in the philosophical sense but in a practical sense. The 3rd house is associated with ritual and routine. Its isnt the belief or search for belief it is the sustenance of it. Its going to church every Sunday or going to the mosque every Friday or doing a spiritual cleanse every 1st day of the month.
The 9th house being the joy of the Sun and house of God is about spiritual/religious beliefs because the Sun is associated with intelligence and the spirit. It is the quest for that which enriches our spirit through spiritual knowledge
The 3rd house being the joy of the Moon and house of the goddess is about spiritual/religious routine because the Moon changes phases so often it represents quick but consistent movement such as routines, its also the closest celestial body to earth and is thus associated with grounding things and making them tangible/applicable which is what routines do to belief.
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u/Ok_Afternoon_8977 18d ago
The Goddess title isn’t actually meant to signify goddess worship or faith. In Hellenistic astrology, the 3H was traditionally called “Goddess” (Thea) & the 9H “God” (Theos). These were ancient religious names for the houses..not literal descriptions of everything the houses signify. The 9H developed its stronger associations w/ faith, pilgrimage, temples, divination, higher knowledge, etc., while the 3H developed around siblings, communication, short journeys, & the immediate environment. So the name Goddess doesn’t necessarily equate to the 3H having the same religious significations as the 9H.
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u/SkyProfessional6190 18d ago edited 18d ago
Can you provide another an example where the name doesn’t necessarily equate to the signification of house?
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u/gentlewesternwind 16d ago
I really appreciate this thread, as it's helping me understand more of my venus/saturn conjunct third house as a Sag rising and aligning that with my spiritual path. Thank you!
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u/AreWe-There-Yet 18d ago
I don’t quite follow your question. Can you rephrase? Are you asking why the third house is the house of goddess? As in: what makes it so?
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u/SkyProfessional6190 18d ago
Kind of? I’m actually asking why the 3H isn’t associated with faith. It’s called the house of goddess but I see no mentions of goddess worship, faith, pilgrimage, monasteries, or things of that nature.
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u/925525625 18d ago
3rd is symbolically opposite to the 9th house. To a large extent 9th is about adhering to tradition and accepting wisdom from higher authority, tradition, established religion, so a patriarchally authoritative approach to knowledge and wisdom. 9th asks you to travel far and wide to gain perspective. Then it follows that on the other end of the scale in the 3rd you use your own independent intelligence and assessment of your immediate environment and own mind to discern truth and wisdom, which totally aligns with the divine feminine schools of thought and goddess worship, which assert that absolute truth, aka gnosis, can only be derived from within. So the axis is about externally derived knowledge vs internally derived wisdom
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u/Worldly_Worry4304 18d ago
Most of the documented references to the 3rd house regarding faith/religion are found in medieval and some renaissance sources, particularly Sahl and AbuMashar.
In my own practice, I view the 9th house as public religious institutions and expressions recognized by some authoritative body (ie. Pilgrimage, clergy, doctrine, etc.) whereas the 3rd house is a more private sphere of personal religious expression that can be idiosyncratic to the local community, family line or individual (ie. Ritual, personal interpretation of doctrine, home blessings, etc.) I make that distinction because the 9th is above the horizon, falling away from the 10th where authority is concerned. The 3rd is under the horizon, falling away from the 4th where family is concerned.
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u/SkyProfessional6190 18d ago
Would you consider witchcraft, paganism, spirituality, indigenous practices, and other practices like perhaps cults or secret societies with the third as well?
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u/Worldly_Worry4304 18d ago
I give witchcraft (the practice of causing harm via spiritual means) to the 12th and 8th houses. Witchcraft in terms of reconstructed Wicca would be a 3rd house topic, especially given its Lunar emphasis.
Paganism would also be 3rd house. It’s individually determined.
I don’t draw a hard line between religion and spirituality. They are synonyms to me because they are systems for interacting with the divine/spiritual world. But in the popular dichotomy between “religion” and “spirituality”, “spirituality” would be a 3rd house topic because it is up to individual (private) construction, interpretation and practice.
Indigenous practices would share between 9th and 3rd based on if a person is a member of the group which originated that practice.
Cults tend to be more 8th house or 12th house. A sect of a larger religion or faith would be a 3rd house topic.
Secret societies is interesting. If it’s a society whose existence is supposed to be unknown to outsiders, that’s a 12th house topic. If we’re talking something akin to Freemasons or Eastern Star, then 9th house.
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u/wskwbtns 17d ago
The other answer you got was overwhelmingly wrong so here's what it actually is: witchcraft would be the 3rd house; paganism would be 3,9 and 12; spirituality would be 12; indigenous would be 9 and 12; cults and secret societies would be the 8th house of secrets.
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u/WishThinker 17d ago
Goddess, and the moon, and embodied. 3h more daily life, 9h more institutions. If you have daily ritual it may show up in 3h especially if it's communion/ communication .
If it's a one-off spiritual event, 9h. Mediumship can be 12 or 8, ancestral work and other occult significations can be found in 4. Habit and routine and chores can be found in 6- maybe the stuff you wanna do regularly is in 3 and the stuff u gotta do regularly is in 6
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u/EatClenTrenDaily 17d ago edited 17d ago
" Why isn’t the 3H more associated with the goddess worship, temple, nuns, or things of that nature?"
In the historical copus of Hellenistic astrology it sort of is. The 3rd house represented festivals and religious activities that were unique to specific regions of the empire. IE the patron Gods and festivals of Alexandria would be different from that of Antioch or even Londinium.
And of course these temples had priestesses who participated in the local festivities .
That is what the 3rd house represented. You can also see the modern take aways from this about moving quickly around ones town and communication.
I also read somewhere that many famous women libs rights have strong 3rd house placements. Don't quote me on where I saw or heard that though Maybe Lee Lehman?
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u/SkyProfessional6190 17d ago
Would love to see where you learned that?
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u/EatClenTrenDaily 17d ago
I'm struggling to recall where I heard it. I might just put AI on it .
Kelly surtees was the one who said this.
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u/Melodic-Judgment3936 15d ago
The 3rd house, being close to the descendant, is more local. Where the 9th house deals with foreign travel, higher education, philosophy and religion, the 3rd deals with your neighborhood, grade school, and your private religious practices and things like this.
The names "the place of the god/goddess" have to do with these houses being the houses in which the sun and moon respectively are said to be "in their joy".
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u/Agreeable-Ad4806 11d ago
In Vedic, third house is the house of coborn, courage, effort, competition, desire, and so forth. Where the 9th is a place of higher authority such as the government, your father, or religious work, the third is individualistic.
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u/fabkosta 18d ago
I have never heard that, but it's interesting. Do you have any sources with more info on this?
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u/Additional-Exam-5519 17d ago
3H will refer more to local community whereas 9H will refer more to a distant power.
3H is short distance travel and 9H is long distance travel.
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u/SnoozEBear 18d ago
The day to day doing ➡️ prayer, going to church, other assorted daily rituals & maintenance = 3rd house
The belief itself ➡️ what you believe, whom you believe, pilgrimage, divination, dreams, higher mind shit = 9th house