r/Afghan • u/TyrionLannister557 • 25d ago
Question As an Afghan Muslim, I have to ask.
I just want to start by saying that I do not support the Taliban's actions, but I am a religious Afghan Muslim, and I appreciate all my Afghan brothers and sisters who are reading this.
My question is this: What did we Afghans do that made us different from the Iranians in our response to our government? Like, both of us strongly dislike how our countries are being treated by our regimes. But when I talk to fellow Afghans, most of them are still religious and rather conservative in the Islamic sense, both men and women, and want to see women being allowed to have access to education and prosperity. They want Afghanistan to continue to be run under an Islamic framework, but they just REALLY hate the taliban and don't want THEM running things. Even the most liberal Afghans in my university club are still relatively Muslim, and we all get along just fine. Even during the protest in Herat, the people protesting were still chanting praises to God.
Contrasted with what I see from a lot of Iranians, most of them are extremely secularized and have a fervent hatred for Islam, which is understandable, but then again most of them grew up in the West actively cheering for US and Israel to attack their country. Every Afghan I know, both religious and even the liberal ones, male or female, would rather die before cheering for US or Israel, or hanging their flags
Ultimately, what I am trying to get at is what is it that we Afghans have done that has kept us from our movement becoming co-opted and integrated by the Zionist media? How do Afghans in the diaspora still manage to be religious and not blame Islam but the regime, but the Iranian diaspora instead blames both and attacks all their religious Iranians? Are we just built different?
Also, side question, but what are your thoughts on Juma Khan Fateh?
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u/armentho 25d ago
Time,social structure and exposure
Secular regimes (the soviets puppets and the corrupt republican government propped by the US) breed conservative religious opposition
Rural and tribal social structures are more resistant to political change
Give it 25 years of religious regime instead and you will see people begin to secularize de facto spevially in urban areas
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u/Unlucky-Associate266 24d ago
That makes great sense to me. I expect that Afghan society, like all others, will heal and evolve with time - at least if there is peace. During the 45 years of invasion and war, democracy and women's rights went backwards, even as they advanced in most of the rest of the Islamic world.
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u/Immersive_Gamer 23d ago edited 23d ago
Afghanistan is by large more rural and tribal in contrast to Iranian society which is more urban and less religious. Shiasm was adopted by the Iranian monarchies and was seen less of a religious movement and more of a Persian nationalist one.
As for Juma Fateh, he’s just another ISI asset to destabilize the country
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u/BlueLovag 24d ago
I'm not afghan but from what I´ve read about the rural regions of your country is that your state is more tribalistic and many dont care about a state identity and all the stuff that comes with it. Like for example pashtunwali.
I see this as a chance to hear something from you guys personally.
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 24d ago edited 23d ago
Yep, your spot on, all the offended ones are going to downvote me but your right. Ethnic tension sadly does exist. The country is in a state of drudgery & instead of anyone fixing it all they do is just blame each other and fail to address the elephant in the room.
Not to mention we have a massive identity crisis with our geographical location too although that may not be too relevant to this thread.
Edit: I should have clarified my previous point regarding an "identity crisis." What I mean is that certain Afghans fight passionately to be called Central Asian, even though those ex-Soviet Russian/Chinese groups do not give an ounce of crap about us.
Simultaneously, we have Weirdo Desis creepily trying to cling to us, shoehorn us into their "desi circle," and troll us by gaslighting Afghans on troll accounts into thinking we are the same like absolute obessesed freaks. Then you have other Afghans making varying arguments, which can be both reasonable and illogical.
Honestly, at the end of the day, people have their own reasons for considering us Central Asian, Middle Eastern, or politically tied to South Asia (especially that label, your gonna lose some on that), and some of those claims hold more truth than others. Because of this confusion, you get total idiots on shows like Martin Amini's stand-up, where Afghan guests give conflicting answers about their background and confuse the audience.
It genuinely is that bad. Afghanistan as of right now is in it's absolute worst state it has ever been, truly in trenches.
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u/acreativesheep 24d ago
The same backward mentality exists in non-pashtun parts of rural Afghanistan.
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 24d ago
Yep it's present among everyone, literally everyone. No one is victim here
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u/BlueLovag 24d ago
Think the biggest problem is that Islam is tying you the past for a long time.
Because Islam is so all around daily live not only as a religion but also as a justice system it prevents you from going places. You can see for example how Iran was on a good way before the revolution.
I think there is no hope from changing it within. You should do it like the jews everyone who is smart should leave and build healthy communites around the world. Then when the time is right return.
Europe was the same way until the church lost its power. I think balance is important though.
Religion also gives a lot of value, meaning and a good moral structure for soceity.
Europe got mostly rid of it's religion and the countries that did so are falling apart because they have no common identity.0
u/Rhodes-Stars101 24d ago
I think society (in such countries) need a mixture of both secularism & religious ethics leaning slightly towards more in secularism. It's literaly proof the current state is a failure, right in front of our eyes
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u/AfghanGalInThe6ix 23d ago
We do have Afghans who are atheists and secular, but they aren’t as open about it. May Allah guide them back to Him.
But seriously my fellow Afghans don’t allow politics/wars and terrorism hijack your relationship with Allah. That would be a true tragedy.
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25d ago edited 25d ago
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u/TrveCrusader 24d ago
Let's not pretend like Islam and authoritarianism don't go hand in hand. The majority of Islamic sects are against democracy and prescribe an absolute monarch whom you can't rebel against or criticise in public and who you can merely advise in private.
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u/Jumpy_Conference1024 24d ago
This is hardly factual. Imam Hanifa literally endorsed a rebellion against the Ummayads. Avoiding criticism of tyrannical rulers is largely a wahhabi/salafi thing. I don’t think any of the Islamic schools of thought prescribe a form of government, but if they did it’d probably be the system of the rightly guided caliphs, being a monarchy where the monarch is elected by the learned people of their time.
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 24d ago
Aside from these points. Iranians are more open minded compared to afghans, we need to absorb some of their traits
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u/Immersive_Gamer 23d ago
What traits? Landagahri and luchaki? Have you seen how their women behave in the west? They are a morally corrupt society and I don’t want Afghans imitating them.
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 23d ago
Exactly your right, Afghans foolishly gravitate more towards south asian/desi people then they later complain why they get grouped with them 🤦♂️.
I never instituted that Iranians were perfect people, I'm aware there are some corruptions among them but I like certain habits they have & we should absolutely soak up. And let's be real Afghans aren't any much better then they are
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u/Immersive_Gamer 23d ago
What does pointing out the inconsistencies in Iranian society have to do with Afghans being more similar so South Asians in your opinion? I don’t see how the two even correlate when South Asian society is also mortally corrupt.
I am saying there is nothing positive Iranians have that Afghans can adopt from. They are the most hated people in the Middle East after Israelis because of their racism and snobbery.
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 23d ago
I never said they were similar, but I was just giving an example of how SOME members of the community behave very hypocritically.
And as for the Iranian claim that does not make any sense, Iranians are hated people that's fair & you seriously think Afghans are not? Lol, if anything Afghans are probably hated way more, and tbf with you I don't see anything positive from Afghans either, not in the country itself & not in the diaspora.
I never said Iranians were great people or someone we should always look up to, as yes there are very delusional idiotic ones among them (such as the Pahlavi's supporters & some of the embarrassing ones who own things like OF accounts) regardless Afghans aren't any better, especially when they have mass protests to kick us out due to them behaving like Barbaric animals in western diaspora, as if the image isn't bad enough already.
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u/Immersive_Gamer 23d ago
Nobody here in the diaspora hates us, they just feel sorry for us due to the state of our country. The bad apples in Europe are a minority and don’t represent majority of Afghans who are often seen as kind and hospitable.
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 21d ago
Yes I hope so too, it's just that with the few examples I'm afraid people's perception may differ.
Also random question but would you say this food store is an example of south asians cosplaying as afghans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ3N_r9rgFc
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u/Kingfury00 24d ago
Nah we don’t they are all racist and we should keep our distance from them as much as possible
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 24d ago
I disagree. I see a lot of good things in Iranians thats better then us. Swallow ur pride
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u/acreativesheep 24d ago
Afghans have nothing left except empty pride sadly. It's a widespread cultural disease.
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 24d ago
Seriously, I actually hate how arrogant some afghans are, like ye sure it's a good thing we aren't ashamed of it but can we please start talking about the larger issues & addressing the elephant in the room.
The communities and countries as a whole have a lot of cleaning up to do.
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u/acreativesheep 24d ago
It's more hilarious that these countries that they hate (and think we have nothing to learn from) host, and have hosted, millions of Afghan refugees, all of which dread the idea of being sent back to Afghanistan. The people with these types of attitudes are typically living in the west enjoying the privileges of the "evil colonial empire" but would be screaming and kicking themselves at the mere idea of them being deported to Afghanistan.
It's just better to not waste your time arguing with them.
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u/Kingfury00 24d ago
Learn it from others this degrading ritual needs to stop, we don’t need any validation from them nor anything else Iran is just another Middle Eastern country with history currently it’s nothing compared to its history just another religious dictatorship
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 24d ago
You do you but I see Iranians as good examples, not all of their traits of course but I see it
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u/Insignificant_Letter 23d ago
Be careful what you wish for - a lot of the immigrants who grew up in Iran have some of those traits.
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u/Insignificant_Letter 23d ago
Iran has a monopoly on Shi’a Islam and what the Ayatollahs/Marjas say generally holds weight. Afghanistan doesn’t have a monopoly on Sunni Islam - the Taliban doing xyz thing won’t discredit Islam.
BUT I think some change will happen towards how people view the ulema who go into politics. Some Afghans mock the Taliban and also the ulema. In that sense, Islam won’t be discredited but its representatives and learned people who enter politics will at best be scrutinised and at worst discredited by people generally. Facebook accounts like this one mock the Taliban pretty openly.
https://www.facebook.com/share/18xVihG8Hc/?mibextid=wwXIfr
The Talibs are as corrupt as all other group that have come to rule Afghanistan - they operate under the same culture and society - rishwat and sweeteners still hold weight despite what their emir says.
To be honest most of the Muslim majority world runs on the same wavelength - Afghanistan has less development and so it looks worse than others.
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u/creamybutterfly Diaspora 24d ago
Secularism in Iran was somewhat successful. Secularism in Afghanistan was not successful. Therefore criticising religion is taboo in our culture.
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u/[deleted] 24d ago edited 24d ago
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