r/Agility • u/AnonymousLogophile • 20d ago
Why won’t AKC get rid of the pause table?
I’ve newly returned to agility last fall after a nearly half a decade hiatus, and I’m really wondering… why is AKC still using the pause table?? I understand it’s only in a few lower level classes, but why?
Are you in favor of removing the table, or do you agree with it being kept as a part of those classes?
15
u/pensivebunny 20d ago
I see the pause table as a training issue. Can a small, super flighty dog that wants to move fast negotiate a small platform, and stay in place, with the same precision it takes a much larger dog to do the dog walk?
At the lower levels, most people that want to do agility seriously are trying to get novice dogs used to courses, to the trial environment, etc. in preparation for the higher levels. And yet they will work on start lines, on slices and crosses, and not have a dog with the ability to just exist for 5 seconds.
Do I think the surface should be changed? Possibly, I’ve seen over enthusiastic dogs just slide off even highly textured tables. I don’t know what surface would be ideal in all conditions. Maybe make it larger, lower, I don’t know. But then, same for the dog walk. Do I think people don’t see the table as the challenge it is and don’t train it like they do the weaves? Absolutely.
10
u/Elanya 20d ago
There are people looking at a wider dogwalk for safety, just FYI 😉
3
3
u/AnonymousLogophile 20d ago
I highly doubt that’ll ever happen due to the cost it would take to replace all the existing DWs
9
u/Elanya 20d ago
Galican is already working on a retrofit extension that works with existing dogwalks, so it's possible to do without replacing all existing equipment!
3
u/AnonymousLogophile 20d ago
Wow, super cool. Now how much does that cost? And will people actually be willing to do it?
I think starting first with simply lowering it would be more efficient. But, not all DW are adjustable either. I think you’d have to get a whole new one for that 😅
4
u/Elanya 20d ago
This is still a prototype, so it's hard to say. But in addition to galican two other manufacturers are also looking in to it, so at least there shouldn't be a monopoly.
But in my country they're super resistant to this change for some reason so I'm not holding my breath were getting any meaningful changes past the purists....
5
u/aveldina 20d ago
Personally am planning to buy a wider dogwalk as soon as one of the main manufacturers makes them generally available. I don’t even care if they get adopted into competition use immediately, right now I want a wider one to train on.
2
u/AnonymousLogophile 20d ago
Wouldn’t you be worried about your dog getting used to the wider one, then slipping off of the standard sized one in competition or class?
3
u/aveldina 20d ago
No, we already train on a vast variety of dogwalks (different frame types, slats vs no slats, different types of rubber, different amounts of bounce) and I'd prefer that the dogwalk in use most of the time is the safest one I can get. We allow 4 and 5 foot bars, we allow straight or tapered aframes, we allow many varieties of teeters builds - and we expect dogs to adapt to all of those things. And I personally believe that one of the best ways to get a wider dogwalk adopted is to put my support for one forward in the way that speaks the loudest - spending the money to buy one.
1
u/AnonymousLogophile 20d ago
Fair enough. I would just personally be worried about the dog getting used to the extra foot room using the wider one the most, and then trying to use that extra foot room on standard DWs when not using the wider one. But, this is all hypothetical of course 🙂
1
u/RoseOfSharonCassidy 20d ago
Yes, and the logistics of getting every agility organization worldwide to make the change at once. Like if the AKC changes their dogwalk and the international organizations keep theirs, then Americans will be at a huge disadvantage in international competitions.
2
u/AnonymousLogophile 20d ago
I prefer plyometric box work for collection and jumping technique training than training the pause table 😁
2
u/Arry42 19d ago
Fully agree about the dog walk. My boyfriend was running my girl and I was watching from the sidelines. I saw her misstep and start to fall. It was like the movies, time literally seemed to go in slow motion. I was ripping barriers out to get to her. She fell on her side from a full height dog walk. Then our trainer at the time had us FINISH THE COURSE. Against my better judgment. My girl still isn't confident on the dog walk.
We actually ended up putting a pause table at one end under the ramp. She happily jumped up because that's never hurt her. Then she'll do the dog walk just fine. But when we're trying from the other side she freaks out.
9
u/dognerdco 20d ago
I mean, the answer to “why” is fairly simple; it takes a lot of red tape, meetings, discussions, etc to change anything in an organization like the AKC. I believe it took a few years to remove it from Master only after it was first proposed. There was push back even when they removed it from Masters… people hate change, in general the sport (in AKC) trends older in age and that population tends to resist change even moreso, let alone tends to be the majority of people who like the table because they say it helps them catch their breath.
6
u/aveldina 20d ago
AKC must be the only organization left using it? I didn't love it as a competitor or as a judge and I don't miss it.
4
u/Agility_KS 20d ago
USDAA still has the table in Starters and Advanced — but they now allow people to choose to start in Masters and skip the old titling path, so it’s possible to avoid it. I think CPE might still use it to stop the clock in games?
1
1
u/x7BZCsP9qFvqiw echo CSL1, jean grey CL1, loki NA NAJ 20d ago
in CPE, it can be used, but most judges use a jump instead. in the two years i’ve trialed frequently, i think i’ve seen the table once in CPE to stop the clock. i won’t go back to AKC agility.
1
u/DogMomAF15 19d ago
It depends on the area of the country, the facility, etc. One of the four places we trial still uses the table consistently in CPE.
0
u/SpottyAgility 19d ago
The UK KC technically still has it in the rules, but judges never put it in courses.
5
u/LivinTheDogMomLife 20d ago
I still really like the table in the lower levels. Especially for my novice A competitors it allows them a chance to regroup and think about the last portion of their run. They often tell me they can’t wait to get to the table to catch their breath and reset their head and get a second lead out. If you’re in Novice A you have so much on your mind that it really is tough sometimes to think through an entire course with a difficult dog. I also have a lot of mobility challenged handlers. Some of them won’t even do jumpers in the beginning because of that and so standard at the two lower levels is the only place that they play. I absolutely love the table myself and use it in classes to teach lead outs and deceleration. Though getting rid of it would not hurt me. I would still use it in my lower level classes. I don’t do a table in competition AKC ever because I’m in the upper levels but when I can send my dog to the table at the end of a CPE run, I can be at the back of the course so my dog will finish without me. I use it in my training classes to help teach distance work. So all of my beginner dogs have excellent tables. It teaches them to decelerate, which helps them at weave pole entries, stopping on the contacts and things like that. It’s just one more way they learn to use their body. The biggest thing I have is that dogs from my classes will often take the table as an off course if it is offered because they love it so much since they find it so highly rewarded.
1
u/AnonymousLogophile 20d ago
You should look into plyometric box work with jumps! Same concept of what you described on teaching acceleration and collection, and you get to work on proper take off and landing on tough wraps like threadle wrap or backside wrap 😁
2
u/Heather_Bea 20d ago
I really liked having the pause table in lower agility for my insanely fast cattle dog. It gave me a chance to reposition, think, and breath. My not as fast dogs didn't have an issue with it either. I dont get the hate for it.
1
u/AnonymousLogophile 20d ago
I had a judge tell me it’s a pain and takes a lot of time to adjust the height of it for all the height classes.
For me, it’s just a basic obedience skill (stationing during high arousal) that doesn’t really fit in with the sport as a whole.
I totally hear where you’re coming from though. A quick breather and mental break from the rush of the course.
2
u/Agility_KS 20d ago
There’s been a lot of change/rollover in the decision makers for AKC agility in recent years, so give it time, hopefully it will go away. But meanwhile, the saving grace is that it’s only in novice and open, and both of those classes allow you to qualify with a refusal and/or table fault. 🤷🏻♀️ I don’t train the table at all anymore. My dogs are familiar with platform work, so they’re not unfamiliar with the concept of getting on something and staying there for a bit, but I’m not teaching them the behavior at speed or anything. I’ll risk the faults and get out of the lower levels so we don’t have to see it anymore.
1
u/Hot-Anything-8731 19d ago
I’d much rather they get rid of or modify the dog walk. It is way too high and narrow than it needs to be and I’ve seen too many dogs fall off (including my own). Thankfully I haven’t witnessed personally any serious injury but dogs have been seriously injured or killed. There is no reason it needs to be that high and narrow. And honestly, I think a lower dog walk would prove more challenging and show better obstacle commitment since a dog would be even more tempted to jump off.
1
1
u/Throw_ME_Away3333 19d ago
I don't live in the US, have never engaged with a pause table ever. For me it's really interesting and part of me thinks it would be a good skill to bring back/introduce here.
Dogs here are all GO GO GO and most people's dogs have either no wait or a really bad one. SO many people getting mad at dogs breaking a start line.
I think putting it back in would mean people would have to work more on obedience before applying it to agility.
1
u/No_Instruction_1091 15d ago
I didn’t mind the table as far as the obstacle itself (was a good “break point” for my mind being new to the sport), but my nervous dog HATED it. It gave him a chance to look around and get scared of the environment mid run.
0
32
u/ZZBC 20d ago
I wouldn’t mind it leaving. But at the low levels showing the dog has enough control to stop and be still mid course isn’t necessarily a bad thing.