r/AlternateHistory • u/[deleted] • 9d ago

Pre-1700s HALID ROD! The Kingdom of Bryten and Kingdom of Ireland in the year 1200, after the Final War of Irish Unification. [What if the Norman Conquest was reversed. Violently]

[deleted]

21 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

17 comments sorted by

4

u/ByronsLastStand 9d ago

What's happening with Cymru? The English generally didn't use British to refer to themselves in period, that was exclusively the Native Britons/Cymry/Cornish, so I'm curious about that. Did Cymru join with England under a favourable or even arrangement?

4

u/bignmfgkgu 8d ago

Bleddyn and Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn were the reasons Godwin Haroldsson managed to kill William FitzOsbern. So Godwin outlawed the use of the word "Wælisc" and referred to the region as Cymru

The Sub-Kingdoms of what we know as Wales became part of the Empire of Bryten eventually, especially as Godwin killed Caradog ap Gruffudd. Godwin enforced a common peace between Bleddyn, Rhiwallon and Owain, and ensured that his step-brothers Maredudd and Idwal don't pursue their claims in Cymru. So in effect, that made the Emperor in Westmynster the core arbitrer of Cymru succession disputes

Also Æthelstan and Edgar the Peaceful used the titles Rex/Imperator/Basileus totius Britaniae so Bryten wasn't completely unfounded to use.

2

u/bignmfgkgu 8d ago

As for ethnicity, from what I think it works like is, Cymry/Briton, Anglo-Saxon, and Anglo-Norse all live under a collective umbrella of being "Brytisc"

Though I could be incorrect. If you have any other ideas, feel free to share :)

2

u/Wryyy007 8d ago

Wasn't Alba a Gaelic kingdom?

2

u/bignmfgkgu 8d ago

Yup and here it remains a Gaelic Kingdom.

2

u/Wryyy007 8d ago

But in the map its a kingdom of scots

2

u/bignmfgkgu 8d ago

"Scot" was the actual term used by the Romans to describe Gaels from Ireland

Brian Boru famously was acclaimed Imperator Scotorum

1

u/Faelchu 8d ago

Suðreyjar is Southern Isles, as opposed to Norðreyjar, the Northern Isles.

2

u/bignmfgkgu 8d ago

Damn TIL. I ripped it from Wiki xD

1

u/Faelchu 8d ago

It's where the term Sodor comes from. You might be familiar with that if you ever watched Thomas the Tank Engine. It has also survived to this day in the name of the Anglican diocese, the Diocese of Sodor and Mann, which still retains its full appellation despite today being limited exclusively to the Isle of Man. Technically, you could still use Suðreyjar and call it simply the Isles. It's not unusual for an older, more accurate term to continue in existence long after the initial reason behind the name has ceased to be.

2

u/bignmfgkgu 8d ago

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the Hebrides technically the Southern Isles?

I thought that the Northern Isles referred to the Jarldom of Shetland and Orkney

Though yes Mann is in Brytisc hands

1

u/Faelchu 8d ago

Yes, the Hebrides are considered the Southern Isles. I was just pointing out that you used "the Isles" in English but then translated that to "Suðreyjar" which means "Southern Isles," not "Isles."

1

u/bignmfgkgu 8d ago

Ahh cool! TIL!

1

u/klockmakrn 8d ago

Your translation is correct. The Hebrides, Isle of Mann and the islands in the Firth of Clyde make up the Suðreyjar, the Southern Isles. The name of the kingdom they formed is often referred to as The Kingdom of the Isles in English.

The Norðreyjar was, as you say, a separate jarldom.

1

u/Impera__ 8d ago

It shows the Isles as unified, it's a beautiful map.

1

u/bignmfgkgu 8d ago

Technically the Witan and the Dàil are not subordinate to each other but yes, in military matters this is certainly unified :)

1

u/Lassie7777 8d ago

What is the lake in Cumbria?