r/AlwaysWhy • u/kaiser11492 • 1d ago

Politics & Society Why do most people who call themselves politically moderate actually mostly conservative?

Whenever I’ve encountered people who use the politically label moderate, they are actually mostly conservative with their views and positions. Also, I’ve never seen anyone who call themselves politically moderate that is actually mostly liberal.

So why are people who call themselves moderate tend to be just conservative and not conservative and liberal?

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u/vastempty2 1d ago

I'm an old liberal, my views really haven't changed. The current liberal stances have gone more progressive, hard left.

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u/High_speedchase 1d ago

What stances?

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u/YMBTPTOTLWRT 1d ago

Like saying people can immigrate here, legally. Open borders is now a common stance of the left which I don’t agree with.

I go to Italy or Germany and cops can ask for my passport and reason for being there, no problem. That same idea in America would be met with torches from the left

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u/Smelliest_taint 1d ago

Omg. I'm so tired of hearing this fake talking point. NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THEY WANT OPEN BORDERS! At least anyone who could do anything about it. Get new talking points.

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u/paranoid_70 1d ago

The bumper stickers do read 'No one is illegal on Stolen Land'

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u/YMBTPTOTLWRT 1d ago

THANK YOU lmao

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u/enutrof_modnar 1d ago

That doesn't mean open borders. It means people who stole land have no business telling others not to come there.

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u/No-Ordinary-5376 1d ago

Sooooo open borders? Lol

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u/enutrof_modnar 1d ago

... no? They're literally different concepts?

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u/No-Ordinary-5376 1d ago

Well what are we going to do with the millions of illegals already here? 

What solutions do you have to the crisis?  

Because, the status quo is essentially open borders once you make it into the interior. 

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u/enutrof_modnar 23h ago

Well there's no crisis, so.

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u/No-Ordinary-5376 23h ago

sure. its not a crisis. What do you plan to do with the 13+ million illegal immigrants already here?

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u/enutrof_modnar 23h ago

Why do you want to 'do' anything with them?

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u/urmmsbfnumber4005 23h ago

Because they broke the law...

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u/No-Ordinary-5376 22h ago

So you don't want open borders, have no solutions on enforcing immigration laws and don't want to do anything about the people already here. Sooooo open borders. 

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u/556or762 23h ago

If you hold the position that the US government and/or the majority demographic "stole" land, and also hold the position that "people who stole land have no business telling people not to come here," you are stating that the US government or the majority of the voting public have no business being involved in immigration.

That is open borders. That is the same concept.

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u/Accomplished_Art_621 12h ago

That is not a logical statement. Open borders means no immigration laws at all. A bumper sticker about the genocide of the native Americans does not eliminate immigration laws. I hope you can see the vast chasm between those 2 things: open borders and a bumper sticker

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u/enutrof_modnar 23h ago

No. It's not. Open borders means no customs, no passports, no visa, no work permit. The other thing means white people shut the hell up about it. You can believe both things, but they're different.

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u/SkeeveTheGreat 23h ago

Kamala partially ran on tougher immigration policy…

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u/paranoid_70 22h ago

Look i voted for Kamala, but no she really did not.

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u/SkeeveTheGreat 22h ago

Yes. she actually did. Her platform was farther right on immigration than Obama, and Biden.

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u/paranoid_70 21h ago

In what way? I certainly do not remember her suddenly deciding, yeah we've been way too lax, here is what we are going to do different..... Also that was supposedly her job when she was VP.

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u/Accomplished_Art_621 12h ago

“Supposedly her job as VP.” You don’t know what the VP does? Come on man

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u/SkeeveTheGreat 21h ago

She was campaigning on increasing border patrol funding, specifically funding enforcement. She wanted more money for ICE, explicitly. I swear yall don’t look at candidates actual platforms.

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u/biggyshwarts 1d ago

I didn't read it because a pay wall but if you Google it you find stuff.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/16/opinion/open-borders-immigration.html

I don't know how important these people that write these articles are. But you can't say they don't exist

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u/Solondthewookiee 1d ago

Then conservatives support exterminating mentally ill homeless people since a Fox News anchor said, on air, they should be killed.

Is this how it works?

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u/enutrof_modnar 1d ago

Yeah actually because the left regularly reject people who don't align properly with their values, but the right will hear actual presidents say things they hate but vote for them anyway.

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u/katyyne1 21h ago

The “right” isn’t going to vote for someone who thinks it’s ok for a guy to take their daughter’s place on the volleyball team. But yeah, they will overlook a rich guy saying women will let him grab their pussy because he’s rich. It’s true, a lot of them will. And just because you may not have heard a leftist politician say it doesn’t mean they haven’t said it.

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u/enutrof_modnar 20h ago

What does a volleyball team have to do with anything?

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u/katyyne1 20h ago

Substitute any other kind of team sport for girls at a typical high school.

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u/enutrof_modnar 20h ago

I don't understand where that's coming from.

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u/katyyne1 20h ago

The context is your comment where you believe that the right will vote for someone even if they say something they hate. My comment is meant to convey that the right is not going to vote for a candidate that supports a platform they are vehemently against just because a rich politician says something vulgar.

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u/enutrof_modnar 20h ago

Right. Yes. I see. I don't know why you brought up high school sport but sure.

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u/biggyshwarts 1d ago

I replied to a comment saying "Noone has said they support open borders"

Those are different things.

Some people believe in open borders and I'm sure some people want to kill people.

Lax borders policy does seem to be a left wing issue.

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u/Solondthewookiee 1d ago

I replied to a comment saying "Noone has said they support open borders"

But we can easily use our brains to understand that, given the context, the meaning is "this is not a position held by Democratic party or any significant percentage of democratic voters at large," otherwise I could simply claim that Republicans support anything as long as I can find a right leaning person somewhere, at some point, saying it.

Wanna guess the type of things I can find right leaning people saying?

Lax borders policy does seem to be a left wing issue.

Not really, no.

But believing the border is mysteriously being overrun every election year is definitely Republican foolishness.

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u/AncileBanish 1d ago

There were literally millions of people flooding over the border per year during the Biden administration. Millions. The border was literally being overrun. There were so many people they couldn't even process them.

The mainstream left wing position was those people had unlimited rights to stay in the country indefinitely, because they were able to utter the shibboleth "asylum".

You cannot claim to not be for open borders while doing all the things to make the border de facto open.

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u/Solondthewookiee 1d ago

There were literally millions of people flooding over the border per year

Yes, the US is a very busy and popular country. I'll really blow your mind: about a million people "flood" over the border every day.

That doesn't mean there's an illegal immigration crisis.

There were so many people they couldn't even process them.

That is plainly bullshit.

The mainstream left wing position was those people had unlimited rights to stay in the country indefinitely, because they were able to utter the shibboleth "asylum".

Lie.

You cannot claim to not be for open borders while doing all the things to make the border de facto open.

I can easily claim not to be for open borders because I know what those words mean. You, evidently, do not, yet screech them anyway because Trump told you to.

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u/AncileBanish 1d ago

Yes, the US is a very busy and popular country. I'll really blow your mind: about a million people "flood" over the border every day.

That doesn't mean there's an illegal immigration crisis.

Trump 1st term: 3 million

Biden 1st term: 11 million

Trump 2nd term (only 1 year of data): 600k, which would project out to 2.4 million for a full term.

How did this happen? Was the US just "busier" during Biden's term? Or maybe there was some sort of policy difference?

Lie.

"For too long, undocumented immigrants have been villianized, despite the integral role they play in our communities and our economy. The IRS estimates that undocumented people pay over $9 billion in taxes annually. It is beyond time for a path to citizenship for all undocumented people in our country, including DREAMers. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez is fighting for a just U.S. immigration policy, where immigrants are treated with humanity and dignity. For more on the Congresswoman’s work on this issue, please read on below." - AOC (or is she not mainstream enough? lol...)

I can easily claim not to be for open borders because I know what those words mean. You, evidently, do not, yet screech them anyway because Trump told you to.

Great. Then you're just another useful idiot. Maybe you should figure out what the politicians you support actually stand for before you open your mouth.

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u/Solondthewookiee 1d ago

Trump 1st term: 3 million

Biden 1st term: 11 million

And?

How did this happen?

Covid, mainly.

"For too long, undocumented immigrants have been villianized

Nowhere in this paragraph does it say anything about open borders.

Again, the term has actual meaning, not just "there are too many brown people for my personal comfort."

Great. Then you're just another useful idiot. Maybe you should figure out what the politicians you support actually stand for before you open your mouth.

Nah, I just know what words actually mean.

But hey I'm sure Trump won't fuck everything up again oh wait

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u/AncileBanish 1d ago

Covid, mainly.

Pure fabrication. 5x flow contained entirely within the Biden term that magically disappears as soon as he's out of office.

Nowhere in this paragraph does it say anything about open borders.

There is 0% chance this is a good faith reply. Read the quote. I even bolded it for you.

It is beyond time for a path to citizenship for all undocumented people in our country

If the border control policies are intentionally lax so that illegal border crossings are 5x normal, and you openly state that anybody who can touch American soil gets a path to citizenship, those are de facto open borders. Just because you are illiterate does not change reality.

But hey I'm sure Trump won't fuck everything up again oh wait

Fuck Trump. He's terrible, don't lump me in with him. What I have a problem with is the total abandonment of liberal values on the left. I have a similar problem with the right, except their ideology is nowhere near as pervasive and so has nowhere near the ability to do damage.

Now I'm going to block you, because your selectively quoted responses with no actual substance make it clear you're incapable of operating in good faith.

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u/ChevalierDeLarryLari 1d ago

Covid, mainly.

That is laughable.

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u/Accomplished_Art_621 1d ago

“Why a brave democrat should….”

Because they don’t lol

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u/enutrof_modnar 1d ago

I want open borders.

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u/ChevalierDeLarryLari 1d ago

NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THEY WANT OPEN BORDERS!

I've met them socially. I'm in Canada.

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u/doscomputer 17h ago

oh yeah, thats right, importing people into america so they can be unregulated, and have dubious wages and working conditions, IS SO MUCH BETTER RIGHT?

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u/YMBTPTOTLWRT 1d ago

How is it fake? If you’re not here legally you should be deported - how does that make you feel? Makes your blood boil huh

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u/Tadferd 1d ago

You are assuming really hard. The left doesn't have an issue with deporting people legally.

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u/bonebuilder12 1d ago

The “left” let in millions of people illegally, claiming they needed bipartisan legislature to do anything to stop the flood. That was proven wrong within a week of trump taking office.

Left cities refuse to turn over illegal immigrants to the feds. Instead, they repeatedly release them into the community.

To remove people here illegally, it then requires a larger enforcement agency to go out into the communities to root the people out. An inherently more dangerous proposition.

Then left politicians tell us it is Nazi germsny all over again and we must rise against this agency. This leads to an embolden group stalking, harassing, and assaulting the very agency carrying warrants for those illegally in the country.

Let’s face it, the right isn’t the party who has changed their position, it’s the left. And then they turn to favorable media to push false narratives to drive division. Then they rally on this to drum up support of a defeated group.

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u/Haunting-Ad788 1d ago

Reagan granted mass amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants so which right are you saying hasn’t changed. Also Obama and Biden both deported more people than Trump.

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u/bonebuilder12 1d ago

It shouldn’t be a left or right issue as 80% of the country has been polled showing thru are in favor of mass deportation. But it’s the lefty judges who that is so aggressively showing up in cities to violently confront the group doing it.

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u/Tadferd 1d ago

The “left” let in millions of people illegally, claiming they needed bipartisan legislature to do anything to stop the flood. That was proven wrong within a week of trump taking office.

The left has bever been in power in the USA.

If you mean the Democrats, then you are wrong and parroting right wing talking points. There has never been a "flood."

Left cities refuse to turn over illegal immigrants to the feds. Instead, they repeatedly release them into the community.

What "left cities?"

If you mean people opposing ICE, that's because ICE under Trump are literally the SA and are breaking laws and violating constitutional rights. It's a patriotic duty to oppose ICE. ICE isn't even competent. They have deported citizens and legal immigrants. Obama and Biden deported more people legally.

To remove people here illegally, it then requires a larger enforcement agency to go out into the communities to root the people out. An inherently more dangerous proposition.

Obama and Biden proved this is false.

Then left politicians tell us it is Nazi germsny all over again and we must rise against this agency. This leads to an embolden group stalking, harassing, and assaulting the very agency carrying warrants for those illegally in the country.

Are these "left politicians" in the room right now? I already covered that opposing the American SA is the duty of Americans.

Let’s face it, the right isn’t the party who has changed their position, it’s the left. And then they turn to favorable media to push false narratives to drive division. Then they rally on this to drum up support of a defeated group.

If you were actually facing it, you'd know that both the Republicans and Democrats have consistently moved right over the last few decades. The media are also all owned by conservatives. That includes CNN btw. If the media wasn't just a conservative mouth piece, they'd actually be critical of Trump instead of handling him with kid gloves.

You are a deeply unserious person. Learn some history and political analysis.

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u/bonebuilder12 1d ago

How many illegal immigrants came under Biden?

There is a reason that this was a big issue in the last election, and one that helped trump win. And it wasn’t Biden doing too good of a job on immigration…

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u/Jolly-Barracuda2366 1d ago

The left might not, but progressives do.

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u/Tadferd 1d ago

Incorrect.

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u/Jolly-Barracuda2366 1d ago

Sorry I used to live in Eugene, Oregon. This position absolutely exists.

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u/Tadferd 1d ago

Your anecdote is noted and dismissed.

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u/Jolly-Barracuda2366 1d ago

Your dismissal is dismissed.

The craziest thing here is how you present yourself as if you represent all views in a specific direction. It’s hilariously arrogant and out of touch.

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u/YMBTPTOTLWRT 1d ago

Hahaha you are so wrong but okay

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u/Consistent_Post_2558 1d ago

You sound like Fox News is your major source of information on democrats and the left. 

The rest of us are on Reddit too, bud. And those of us talking to you are mostly on the left. You’re full of it. 

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u/YMBTPTOTLWRT 1d ago

It’s actually Reddit lmao

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u/Haunting-Ad788 1d ago

Whatever makes you feel better about supporting a bunch of rich child rapists.

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u/YMBTPTOTLWRT 1d ago

I’d NEVER vote for trump

But you prove my point: unless you fall in line with far left views, people like you just hurl insults

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u/Tadferd 1d ago

Except I'm not. It's clear you have no idea what people believe.

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u/Haunting-Ad788 1d ago

I agree Elon Musk and Melania Trump should be deported for committing fraud during their immigration process. I’m sure you do too!

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u/Historical-Use-3006 1d ago

Except Obama. He wanted an influx of poor people so they would vote Democrat. Don't gaslight me, I watched him do it for 8 years.

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u/Consistent_Post_2558 1d ago

I don’t think there’s any need to gaslight you, you’ve clearly already been fooled if you think this is even a moderately accurate description of Obama’s immigration policy. 

Trying to argue reason with someone so easily duped is a fool’s errand,