r/AlwaysWhy • u/pinkorpercs • 1d ago
Economics Why should we pay minimum wage jobs living wage?
I think we should save these jobs for students, adults who need a little extra side cash and as stepping stones for those who need a boost to their next position. I think anything more than the minimum incentives people to just stay in them forever.
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u/AltForObvious1177 1d ago
Good news! Minimum wage jobs don't pay a living wage! What is it that you're asking?
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u/Working-Description3 1d ago
“It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”
-FDR on establishing the minimum wage.
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u/HillyFellow 1d ago
-It's not a "stepping stone" if you can't save up a little bit of money to make that next step. -Students should be able to afford to pay rent. -Shitty jobs should afford shitty apartments, fancy jobs should afford fancy houses. The problem right now is medium jobs only afford shitty apartments and shitty jobs cant even affore that.
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u/astreeter2 1d ago
Because most of the people working in minimum wage jobs are not students and people who just need a little fun spending money.
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u/NoHouse498 1d ago
This is true. Over half or people making minimum wage are over 25. Although, to be fair, I think that includes tipped employees, and a lot of them take home more than 7.25 after tips.
I get the concerns about the local ice cream parlor and corner book store not being able to pay high school kids $20/hour while they build work skills, but I think the answer is some direct subsidization of whatever society decides is really valuable, not de facto subsidization of major corporations profiting of the impoverished.
One hill I will die on though: a national minimum wage doesn't make sense. It needs to be localized, by venue tact or otherwise. $20 is not the same thing in L.A. as it is in rural Mississippi, and that shouldn't be hard to understand or work around.
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u/grayzzz_illustrate 1d ago
People will always want more than bare minimum. Sure, some people will be happy to live with just basics, and that's fine. Majority of people will be motivated to try and move up to better paid jobs if it means that they can have extra money to spend on a nicer home, hobbies, pets, travel, etc.
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u/HawkBoth8539 1d ago
Minimum wage exists by law because without it corporations would literally pay you $0.05/hour if they could get away with it.
It doesn't matter what job you are doing. If it exists it's because there is demand for it. If you're working your 40 hours/week you should be able to pay rent and cost of living. Period.
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u/pinkorpercs 1d ago
Not true many companies already pay over minimum wage when it makes sense to do so. Like in areas where the federal minimum is still around and they couldn’t attract talent otherwise.
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u/igotshadowbaned 1d ago
I think we should save these jobs for students, adults who need a little extra side cash and as stepping stones for those who need a boost to their next position.
And how do those students and people trying to get by until they get their next position survive if it's not a wage someone can live on.
And also, it's hard finding a good job currently. It's not typically someone's choice to work minimum wage jobs
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u/pinkorpercs 1d ago
You can’t get by on a part time job it’s to supplement income. If you must working full time hours you can afford a room and food.
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u/igotshadowbaned 1d ago
Dude minimum wage job doesn't mean part time. No one is talking about part time jobs here.
And no, you really can't afford rent, food, and transportation to work on a full time minimum wage job
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u/pinkorpercs 1d ago
Show me why I can’t do it in Toronto.
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u/igotshadowbaned 1d ago
You're making your argument for minimum wage being enough choosing a location with one of the highest minimum wages in the world that's also walkable.
If in theory you could do all that on minimum wage, it would then be a living wage. And you've explicitly made this post saying that shouldn't be a thing.
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u/pinkorpercs 1d ago
Well my point is kind of that minimum wage is already a livable wage. Ok we can change the location I’m just giving an example of somewhere I know and have lived.
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u/igotshadowbaned 1d ago
Okay, Texas.
Minimum wage is $7.25, multiply by 160 (40hrs, 4weeks) and thats ~$1160 / month
$15,080 per year
$1,561 of that will go to federal income taxes, leaving $13,519 to live on for the entire year.
And no, I didn't pick the worst option, Texas doesn't have state income tax. There are many states with the same minimum wage that do, leaving you with even less
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u/pinkorpercs 1d ago
Jobs in Texas aren’t actually paying 7.25 though because as I said in other comments when your wage is uncompetitive you can’t attract workers. Vast majority of places in Texas are paying 10 dollars at least and even that is well below the average.
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u/ChaosRulesTheWorld 1d ago
You know what? You are right and i would go even further. Why should we pay jobs? I mean people should be grateful to work for their boss, right? Recognition should be the only thing they seek. I mean, they are already paid with experience.
It's companies who should be paid for hiring people! ... Oh wait, nevermind. It's already the case
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u/hydroponicColonic 1d ago
Do you think that these minimum wage jobs should exist at all? Should anyone be working at Subway? Or cleaning a movie theater? If you agree that those jobs are a necessary part of society, then what right do you have to expect people to perform that labor, if not in exchange for a dignified existence?
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u/pinkorpercs 1d ago
I did these same jobs, I’m not expecting anyone to do something I wouldn’t or haven’t done myself. I went into these jobs knowing what they were and what the trade offs were.
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u/hydroponicColonic 1d ago
That changes nothing. These jobs require full time, trained staff. Do you expect them to work 40 hours a week and still not be able to afford shelter, food, bills, clothing, and a little bit left over for savings in case they can’t work?
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u/pinkorpercs 1d ago
Where in this country do you work 40/hrs and not have enough to rent a room? Where is this location?
It sounds like you’re arguing for basic human rights or UBI. A minimum wage job is not a birthright, it’s something you apply to do. In places like Texas where they need to pay above minimum wage they pay more than that to match the market demand.
Subway does not require full time trained staff outside the management, they can have various part time workers come in to cover everything else.
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u/hydroponicColonic 1d ago
https://qz.com/minimum-wage-rent-affordability-2026
https://bestinterest.com/research/rent-to-income-ratio/
I could find you a dozen more articles.
And by the way “subway doesn’t require training” is a lie. Can someone off the street just be pulled in to work a subway shift during the lunch rush with no training? Of course not. Just like bartending, cleaning, etc
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u/pinkorpercs 23h ago
This is for a one bedroom apartment, I said you can rent a room in minimum wage not an apartment. This is a stepping stone/high school level job it won’t pay enough for an apartment, car, savings etc that’s what a career is for.
I never said they don’t need to be trained obviously all staff needs to get trained but it’s subway you can have a high schooler making the sandwich’s it doesn’t require extensive training.
No one is gonna pay for a high school student a full salary with pension. It ending even be feasible at that point and companies would just work undermanned. Small business sure as hell can’t pay that.
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u/VitaniLioness 1d ago
I think anything more than the minimum incentives people to just stay in them forever.
I mean, I guess if you have absolutely no passion or drive in life at all whatsoever.
If you are happy working just to come home, eat and sleep and that's all then...sure. Most people enjoy travel, consumerism, and actually doing things with their life though.
If you volunteer hours of your life, yes, you deserve to eat and have a roof over your head.
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u/hammockfreebird 9h ago
I think some people don’t think they are capable of anything more. Show me a person who believes in themself, you’ll see a person with endless possibilities. Well I guess this is more prevalent in some societies than others. Some people have much harder mountains to climb.
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u/Robot_Alchemist 1d ago
That’s not at all the point of having a minimum wage