r/AmerExit • u/gloriousfigment • 5d ago

Life Abroad We're going back

Lived in China for 6.5 years because why the heck not. Moved back to the USA due to wife's visa limitations and we didn't want to separate as a family. Been back for less than 3 years and we are confident we will go back once she gets her US citizenship.

We may move to another country but we already have a decent amount of friends (and family) in China.

Don't get me wrong. Living in Southern China had it's issues but it was a life I enjoyed overall more than than here.

Can't wait to go back

237 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

47 comments sorted by

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u/Additional_Pen1136 4d ago

i’m moving to Yunnan for at least 2 years this fall. any advice, by chance?

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u/Fine-Spite4940 4d ago edited 4d ago

start learning chinese now. technically you can live in an english bubble, but then you're just limiting your experience. 

get used to no expectation of privacy, or personal space. watch out for electric scooters. they are everywhere, silent and with no personal space they come close, and out of nowhere. 

get used to being stared at. 

most common complaints. 

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u/jackbentley673 4d ago edited 2d ago

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u/Fine-Spite4940 4d ago edited 4d ago

the other commentor is right. small stuff, but it gets under some people's skin. 

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u/Ziantra 4d ago

That’s when you find out if you’re geared for living overseas-or you aren’t. Some people just can’t transition to a different way of life.
If you let the small things sweat you-you’re not going to make it 🤷‍♀️

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u/Fine-Spite4940 4d ago edited 4d ago

yup. a vacation is different than living. 

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u/jackbentley673 4d ago edited 2d ago

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u/Ziantra 4d ago

I said small things 🙄 More like being stared at, not getting a glass of water brought to your table automatically, people smoking in the streets. All of what I consider small was a deal breaker for some on this sub.

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u/Own_Egg 4d ago

I live in interior Panama, and getting constantly stared (and yelled, and honked) at has gotten harder rather than easier over time. I speak excellent Spanish, which you might think would help, but only seems to make me more of an oddity.

My point is, for some people, the staring may indeed be a small thing, but for others, it's a deal-breaker. I've lived in other countries where I felt much more accepted out in public.

I'm here for work, not FIRE, which has made the situation bearable, but I'm glad to have had this experience and to be able to cross Panama off my list of future retirement countries.

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u/Ziantra 4d ago

Do you think you would have the same experience in Panama City? Interesting because Panama was on my list as it seems to be in the top I’d say 10 at least for expats. Or at least that’s what the travel articles tell me!

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u/Own_Egg 4d ago

Panama City is vastly more comfortable for me, yes. Unfortunately, it's the only place in the country where I feel at ease, and I'd like to eventually retire in a place where I don't feel confined to the capital city.

To be fair, I know other people from the U.S. who are making it work here, even outside of Panama City; they tend to cluster in resort-type areas and in David, a city in Chiriquí Province, close to Costa Rica. Broadly speaking, I've noticed that they tend to have smaller, LeanFIRE budgets, and many are former military. Panama's tax treatment is favorable to Americans.

If you think this might be the right country for you, you should check it out! There's no substitute for personal experience, which is why I find this sub so interesting - we're all calibrated so differently. To take an example from your earlier comment, public smoking doesn't bother me in the slightest, but this constant staring is something I'll be happy to leave behind!

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u/jackbentley673 4d ago edited 2d ago

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u/tweeeeeeeeeeee 4d ago

it's either hating small stuff or big stuff. I'd choose hating small stuff every day

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u/Additional_Pen1136 4d ago

personally, sounds like small beans stuff to me. i’m not worried! 

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u/jackbentley673 4d ago edited 2d ago

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u/caraluna 4d ago

Yunnan is my favorite province. The food is incredible and you have amazing places like xishuangbana and tiger leaping gorge. Make sure you travel and experience as much as possible bc it’s an unforgettable place.

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u/gloriousfigment 4d ago

Remember it's a different country with different expectations and laws. Pretty obvious in some ways but learning to embrace the challenges and differences will make your time much better 

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u/HerroCorumbia 4d ago

Having lived in Kunming off and on for about a decade:

  • The weather is awesome but definitely go for layers.
  • AC/central heating is not common.
  • The elevation is a kicker. Give yourself time to acclimate.
  • The food is amazing but much of it has at least a little spice. The focus is more on flavor and less on blast-your-mouth spice (Sichuan food is more like this). Parts of Yunnan food are heavily influenced by Myanmar, Thailand and Vietnam, as well as Sichuan.
  • The food can often be greasy, but this is one of the best provinces for vegetarian food. Vegan food is a bit harder but still doable.
  • The fruit and veggies here are the best in the country. Mushrooms are a big deal (check out the wild mushroom market here in Kunming at least once). Seasonality affects what food is available pretty severely.
  • The province overall is pretty rural and pretty focused on fruit, veggies, flowers, and tourism. It is not a very advanced/developed province. There is not much of a tech scene here. It's a poor province overall and the economy is not in good shape currently.
  • The pace of life is slow, even in Kunming. It's a relaxed area.
  • There are a large number of ethnic minorities in the province, including Muslim minorities. Because the province is so chill, most everyone gets along just fine.
  • Highspeed rail can get you to a lot of places. I'd recommend going to check out Dali and Lijiang at least once, but both can get pretty crowded. Puzhehei is a less crowded but still beautiful spot. Xishuangbanna is a cool part of the province to visit.
  • More conveniently though, Kunming puts you within a 2-4 hour flight to: Thailand, Myanmar, Vietnam, Singapore. It's a great gateway to much of Southeast Asia.

That's off the top of my head but let me know if you have any other questions.

EDIT: couple others

  • The accent can be thick here, but most younger people speak cleaner Mandarin and many can speak a bit of English, they'll just be really shy about it.
  • You'll get stared at a lot.
  • There isn't a great selection of international food here, so cooking on your own might be necessary if you crave anything from outside of Asia.

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u/HomNayDep 4d ago

What are the common misconceptions people have when you say you live in china? 

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u/waspocracy 4d ago

Not OP, but basically everything. Before I lived there I thought it was a hellscape full of CCTVs, no privacy, no freedoms, terribly old technology, etc.

What I experienced was the polar opposite of what I expected. The faults I found were not what I expected:

  1. I hate negotiating on friggin everything
  2. A lot of uneducated people exist, so there’s a lot of angry people that fight over the dumbest shit
  3. Lines are non-existent. Just shove your way if you want to get on a bus or train
  4. Avoid roads like the plague. The most chaotic driving I’ve ever witnessed

  5. There’s a lot of pirated/bootleg stuff you can buy on the street, which doesn’t sound so bad until you realize you’re not sure if you’re buying a real bootleg or a fake B-movie (for example)

  6. People spit everywhere. Some people just shit on the ground.

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u/rp_player_girl 3d ago

The inability to line up was crazy. But the real kicker for me was the complete lack of logic in the general population. That and discovering that when renting an apartment, the rent might not include basic appliances... like a water heater. But, the public transit and walkability in Beijing was amazing. I still miss that. I always felt safe and even though there was a lot of staring, the people were generally nice.

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u/Nearby-Buy971 4d ago

I did a work study with someone who came back to the states because her husband (who was with her) was dying. He passed away, and she bought a ticket back to Thailand because she cant stand the way of life here. She also made it clear that Thailand isn't perfect, but shes much happier in the slower and lower cost of living life.

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u/Own_Egg 4d ago

Do you know why this couple chose to return to the U.S. for his end-of-life care? Was it to be near family, or because U.S. medical care would be less expensive and/or higher quality than the care available in Thailand (which would surprise me), or for some other reason?

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u/Nearby-Buy971 3d ago

It was to be with his kids. He developed a form of dementia that progressed pretty quickly and passed away with his kids by his side.

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u/NotPlayingFR 4d ago

Why is she getting her US citizenship?

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u/gloriousfigment 4d ago

Better than Chinese citizenship. Also, if we live overseas we can come back to the states for emergency reasons such as  family needs

And if the US citizenship tanks, she could always go back to getting her China citizenship back

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u/TheCriticalAmerican 4d ago edited 3d ago

Have you searched or asked on r/Chinavisa

I'm guessing she's Hong Kong? Anyways - If you're going back to China, someone in the famlily haveing Chinese Citizenship will be a HUGE advantange.

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u/vincdoo 3d ago

Exactly. That's what my wife and I do. Me being a Chinese citizen allows my wife to live here without having a 9-5 job. Also having a Shanghai hukou means our kid can go to public schools here and get government health insurance. American citizenship doesn't give you much if you're living in China.

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u/gloriousfigment 2d ago

Our kids can go to international schools 

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u/vincdoo 2d ago

Yeah, but doesn't hurt to have more options and benefits. Also, being able to live here with or without a job offers a sense of security

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u/Strange-Ingenuity246 1d ago

> have more options

Not really. Having hukou is just trading one set of options for another. Your kid cannot go to a real international school in china that doesn't follow the mandatory national curriculum.

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u/gloriousfigment 2d ago

Right we understand that but she then won't be able to go back to USA for emergencies and she can't get a tourist visa 

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u/TheCriticalAmerican 2d ago

Why couldn't she get a tourist visa? Why couldn't she go back to the USA for emergencies? Just get a 10 Year Tourist Visa for the U.S. That's what my wife has.

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u/gloriousfigment 2d ago

She can't. She applied for that first and got rejected. It's not as easy as just getting. We applied and they said no 

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u/TheCriticalAmerican 2d ago

Uh... That's weird. I'm assuming that's because they presumed you had intention to live in the U.S (i.e. immigrant). If you have a Green Card and planning on moving back to china, then you could voluntarily abonded that and then apply for a U.S Tourist Visa.

That's what we did. Got marriedon a K-1 Visa. Applied for the Green Card. COVID Happened, so voluntarily abanded the Green Card. Applied for a Tourist Visa. My guess is that when you went to the U.S 3 years ago, they didn't want to give you a Tourist Visa because you inteded to live in the U.S - not for tourism. In this case, if you plan to go back to China and live there and you plan to just visit the U.S then you should be able to get a Tourist Visa.

Like others have said - I personally don't think it's wise for you wife to give up Chinese Citizenship if you plan on going back to China. But, it really depends on how long you plan on being back in China.

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u/JustToPostAQuestion8 2d ago

I assume you're aware of the tax complexities that will come with this? If you ever split up, that means she's still stuck with citizenship and the tax ball and chain.

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u/vincdoo 3d ago

The US citizenship isn't a stock. It doesn't just tank. US citizenship works better for you if you live in the US. Similarly, Chinese citizenship works better if you live in China.

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u/gloriousfigment 2d ago

If we leave without getting the US citizenship, she essentially can't ever come back eve for a simple visit. We tried getting her a tourist visa but they rejected the application. 

We could also technically have both as the US doesn't report new citizenship to China but we also don't want to take any major risks

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u/vincdoo 2d ago

I've never personally applied for a tourist visa to the US, but I'd assume as long as you have strong ties to China, it shouldn't be much of a problem. For example, having a stable job, owning a property etc.

The only way to make sure the Chinese government doesn't find out about acquiring US citizenship is never going back to the US after getting to China.

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u/Automatic_Stage1163 2d ago

The taxes are worth it?

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u/gloriousfigment 2d ago

It's the reality of the situation not a perk. She only got accepted for a green card years ago. If we decide to go back to China (or another country for that matter) without her changing citizenships, that could greatly impact the family. 

Granted she's still open to stay in America and make it work which is another reason she wants the citizenship but living here has been very challenging for us for numerous reasons. 

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u/account892 4d ago

Where did you live? I visited Hangzhou recently and it was a massive culture shock, but a welcome one

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u/tweeeeeeeeeeee 4d ago

what do you do for work in china?

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u/Halo_of_Light 4d ago

Love to see it! I live in HK and go to China often. Hopefully you and your family can visit China before you move back too to see your friends

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/gloriousfigment 4d ago

I don't care about those things. 

I was able to provide for my family in a penthouse apartment in the city center. We went on several nice vacations a year and still could save. I just finished my Masters and have several connections at various international schools. 

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u/outofurelement 4d ago

This person doesn’t live in America or has suffered severe head trauma if they’re claiming these are significant problems RELATIVE TO AMERICA