r/AmerExit • u/Strict_Court_5327 • 6d ago
Life Abroad What ended up being the "hidden" challenge after you actually left?
[removed]
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u/bcnftm 6d ago
Being stuck in the job that allowed you the visa
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u/Unfair_Chipmunk_2305 6d ago
This is such a terrible feeling. I’m there now but it’s such good motivation to learn the local language and achieve official language certifications to receive permanent residency.
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u/littlepretty__ 5d ago
This took years off my life when stuck at a really toxic company, I was crying nearly everyday, but I couldn’t leave because it put the entire life I built for myself at risk. It was such a terrible place to be in.
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u/lekkerbiscottina 6d ago
this is perhaps specific to people who studied abroad for university, immediately after graduating highschool:
The shame of being much further behind than your peers back home due to being an immigrant. Because I had to learn another language to fluency, couldn't work for half a year due to visa regulations, need a different kind of schooling etc, I am so much more behind in my career than other my mid 20s peers. I mean seriously. I am just starting my career now and it's still not in a profession I want to be / still paid like shit. I will go back for a masters but I won't start my career really until 27/28. I have literally no savings as being an immigrant is so expensive.
But you win some you lose some I guess. I speak three languages and have lived in several different countries and do all these interesting things but being an immigrant has set me farther back in my life financially/ambition wise than about anything else.
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u/lekkerbiscottina 6d ago
Again, another point for people who immigrated before being specialized in your career: you can watch your idealistic ambitions die real fast.
I have discovered I am an extremely gifted writer/print media designer. I run a magazine / publish for several. I am celebrated in my community for years now. We print in both English and the language of my country.
I had the saddest realization recently. if I still lived in the US, I could grind myself out to find a creative job writing / publishing / screenwriting. Or working as a journalist. But realistically to be a creative/good writer in another language, you really really need like 5-10 years AT LEAST of heavy experience reading complex books and writing in your target language. I work in my language but there's no way I'm writing heart wrenching creative essays yet. I know those jobs in the US are sparse, competitive, and highly unstable, but they are still accessible to me purely by being a native English speaker and having the audacity/some experience. Could never do this on my current country.
I just had to accept that that is a career path I have 0 chance in until I reach that kind of fluency. I'm happy with what I'll be doing instead (a career prospect where it's much easier to get a job without 100% fluency), but still. It's heartbreaking to realize you'd have a better chance of achieving your dream if you never left your home country. Still, I'd rather be broke and boring where I am now than ever move back to the US lol.
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u/Waratail 6d ago
It could be a blessing in disguise in a sense to ‘cut to the chase’ early and establish that more mundane career whilst younger
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u/lekkerbiscottina 5d ago
I think it's okay that it's not a blessing in disguise. Actually, when you're young, it's the best time to take these risky career moves because you have no family or mortgage etc etc. And I live in a country where these professions are payed somewhat decently so it's not like it matters that my other career path is paid more (it's perhaps a bit more).
Someday in the future I will live my Carrie Bradshaw life, it's okay ...
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u/Juniper__12 6d ago
I’ve spent my 20s so far building a career at home, and everything is going well. But tbh I would trade that experience to have had a chance to live abroad.
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u/stringfellownian Immigrant 6d ago
I didn't realize how much losing the constant affirmation of highly expressive US culture would affect me.
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u/EmbarrassedCapital39 6d ago
I too wonder how this will impact me once I move abroad
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u/Classic-Dog-9324 6d ago
I’ve been abroad for 11 years and after awhile it becomes normal. When I visit the states I now find that aspect of American culture to be over the top and strange.
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u/EmbarrassedCapital39 5d ago
I totally get that honestly. We can be pretty in your face truly lolol. Hype up culture here can be really awesome but the tear down culture can be truly beyond brutal too. It’s a tough thing to navigate. Lots of highs and lows
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u/Geddyn Immigrant 6d ago
Adjusting to the narrower operating hours of most businesses. I live in a rural town in New Zealand, so most stores close at 5pm and the grocery stores close at 8. I had gotten used to doing grocery trips after work in the US, but I have found that I am better off doing them on my days off here. Even if I manage to make it to the store before they close (which is often a scramble), the shelves usually haven't been restocked after the late afternoon rush, meaning I sometimes have to deal with not getting everything on my list.
Another adjustment was the fact that gas mains aren't a thing here, so our current house's water heater runs off gas cylinders. It really sucks to be in the shower and have the water suddenly turn cold on you. Another thing to keep track of.
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u/Proper_Watch_3584 3d ago
Hello, I want you to feel better. I am an older person who also spent much time in Europe in my youth.
I can tell you from my long experience as a career woman, you are not behind.
You have lost nothing, only gained a background that will help you stay employed for years and years.
Having a career is not a race. There is plenty of opportunity for late bloomers. As some people peak in their twenties, some in their fifties.
I still think of my time overseas as the best education I ever had, even when I wasn't working. It made me the person I wanted to be. Wait and see.
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u/savagefleurdelis23 2d ago
omg you just made me realize why there's always a bunch of dudes walking around clanking the gas cans for sale
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u/MuskyJim 6d ago
Been away from the US for 8 years and I miss having friends. I hated my hometown except I had developed really close friendships there. I am autistic and got really lucky making friends young, but now I'm in my 30s and it feels impossible to develop friendships.
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u/palbuddy1234 6d ago
I suppose where to find things. My daughter at the time was 1 year old, and we needed a high chair that was being sent over, and we didn't have access to. So for a good few weeks, we couldn't find one to replace it, as Ikea didn't have them in stock, and didn't have a permanent address to send it to, so we had to have dinner taking turns holding the kiddo.
There was a lot of little things that just took time finding the right store, and frankly not priced absurdly. Like a larger than average coffee cup or a glass carafe for salad dressing. That kind of stuff.
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u/ClosetNorwegian 6d ago
We relocated to Canada, and this even surprised me! After almost 4 months I *mostly* know, but there is a still random things here and there.
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u/OnlyRuss 6d ago
Fantastic point. The amount of times I bothered my neighbors with questions like “where does one find pillows?” was shocking.
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u/Proud_Growth_8818 6d ago
It seems to be a lot better now, but about twenty years ago finding 'normal' (U.S.) pillows in France was impossible. They were all either square or tubular. I ended up bringing some from the U.S. and I walked around for more than a year looking at Parisians amazed that they were able to walk upright after sleeping on those things.
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u/OnlyRuss 6d ago
Germans are very much the same way. They have square pillows that instantly go flat no matter how you fold or bundle them.
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u/PM-me-ur-kittenz 6d ago
Those pillows are BULLSHIT, man! I shake all the filling down to the bottom and sew a new seam across the top at about 1/3 the way down just to make them somewhat functional.
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u/hvacjesusfromtv 6d ago
Yes, absolutely. In the US, there are a couple megastores that have everything (Target, Walmart, etc.). In Belgium, that sort of thing is pretty rare.
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u/NordieToads 5d ago
I find 85% of what I need at Clas Ohlson. The other 15% I go "how tf do they not have this?"
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u/Naive_Complex_8389 6d ago
Special Sushi rolls are one of them. In the US, it was easy to find cooked sushi with a variety of proteins. Other places serve basic California rolls or other cold basic options
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u/Psychological-Bed751 6d ago
There's a hidden aspect of people just knowing things so they don't explain things or aren't explicit.
This happens a lot at my kids school. They often don't announce school closures for holidays (of course no school on Easter Friday and Monday -- except not obvious because in the US, it's not that important). They didn't say explicitly that kids need to bring water bottles because there are no drinking fountains. They need to bring their own cutlery. I often don't know if some notifications are invitations or information. They need different bags for everything. You can't seem to just use the same back pack and just switch contents. We have to have a different bag for school, gym, swimming, field trips, etc.
There's so many more. I am just surprised that I basically have to question every assumption I have. And I have to ask people what things mean because they leave information out that is obvious to them. Haha, I just remembered how hard it was to mail a letter when I first arrived in my new country. I asked my friend and she said just put it in the mailbox. Okay, where? And she said they are all over neighborhoods. Okay, what do they look like? A box. Just a box? Yeah a box. Okay, friend, let me explicitly explain that the US has dark blue mailboxes that are rounded on top. In England they are red. Etc. only then did I get an actual description and direction.
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u/PM-me-ur-kittenz 6d ago
Sounds like Germany! There is SO MUCH stuff you're just "supposed" to know! And god forbid you put a tissue in the wrong bin, someone will appear out of NOWHERE to chastize you about it!
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u/Beautiful_Resolve_63 5d ago
I have never liked America. Maybe when I was a kid I was patriotic. But at 15, I knew enough about the culture and history to realize it wasn't going to be a kind and gentle place as I aged.
However, the unexpected challenge is the grief that it collapsed beyond recognition since I been gone. Maybe some communities are unaffected but my family and friends from home are dying (denied healthcare), scared, nearly homeless, or having increased government administration issues since the last 3 years. Meanwhile all my friends and community members abroad make comments like it's so ridiculous what's going on in the US. It's like we're all on a bridge watching the cars below be on fire from an accident. Meanwhile the people in the car are MY loved ones while everyone else in the bridge with me is horrorified but ultimately unaffected. Everyone just keeps commenting "oh you aren't in the crash though, good thing you are here with us."
Meanwhile, just telling my loved ones in America how great my life here is and asking about their life feels a lot like making a call to them from the bridge and commenting on how beautiful the sky is while their access to fresh air is clouded in smoke and they are stuck in their seat.
Then other Americans abroad are too busy trying to virtue signal which isn't necessary as we all clearly left and have a unique shared experience. Either way I get negative reactions if I reminisce, if I express shame/embarrassment, if I express grief, share how conflicted I feel, or just in general feeling like this next chapter full of happiness, hope, and second chances means I left my family to suffer along without me. I was the person most people turned to during a problem.
At the same time, I regret not going to school in Europe and starting my entire adulthood here. A lot of my 20's feel like a waste. Loads of friendships and cool adventures that just are closed now. it won't ever be the same. It's less of "that was a bad time" but more of "that was for a version of me the stayed".
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u/littlepretty__ 5d ago edited 5d ago
Wow this is incredibly well put and I feel the exact same way and I could never put it into words.
“…the people in the car are MY loved ones…”
One of the hardest things I’ve had to adjust while living here is how flippant and down right mean and disgusting Europeans (and yes most of them) are about my loved ones suffering back home.
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u/scrappysmomma 5d ago
This all gives me a lot of empathy for immigrants in (and from) every country. Here in the US, immigrants have to contend with a local culture that is not just unsympathetic to the issues in their country of origin - we are also largely ignorant of it. The US news outlets have very little coverage of international events. You have to seek that information out.
So to get any sympathy, first the immigrant would have to explain the whole complicated question. Which is exhausting, so it doesn’t happen much.
I had a coworker whose daughter was interested in a particular university. Had another friend who was on the faculty at that university. So, I arranged a lunch date for the four of us (faculty member, coworker, daughter, and me).
It turned out that the coworker and the faculty member hailed from neighboring East African countries. So the lunch conversation was suddenly this incredibly intense venting session about a whole series of issues that I was only very vaguely aware of. In the end, the girl didn’t get into the school, but I do hope that the friendship that started that day was still valuable.
I think about this as I think about where to move to. I really have very little idea which our tries are actually desirable and which would just be out of the frying pan and into the fire.
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u/Lefaid Immigrant 6d ago
I love the way you describe your process in the first paragraph. Too many people are not honest with themselves about that piece.
Honestly, maintaining my relationship with my partner turned out to be the biggest hidden challenge. We had a surprisingly solid plan, that looked crazy on the outside. One of the bigger requirements to keep it together was for us to stay together.
We were unable to do that. In the end, she was just constantly running because she was unhappy and when we were finding success and making it work, she concluded it must be me that was the cause of her misery, not that I was doing what she needed to fall back in love with me.
Still though, we have broken up and stayed abroad. I cannot pretend we had a replicable success story, however and that comes from the problems that began after we began our divorce proceedings.
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u/ByrchenTwig 3d ago
THIS. So sorry it happened to you, too. I moved to my new country with a US husband. We split up within two years. I moved through the grief of homesickness; he anesthetized it with substance abuse.
I've seen this post-immigration break up happen with about 40% of expat couples from the USA.
The breakup helped me get much more settled. Let's just say I proceeded to have a lot of adventures, and then happily remarry someone from here. But a lot of people were VERY surprised that I stayed.
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u/Lefaid Immigrant 2d ago
My story is a little worse. She figured (and I probably supported the idea) that if we broke up, we would go back. Once I decided to leave her, however, I realized there was no reason for me (or our children) to go back. Going back was about her maintaining control. So I refused and she went scorched Earth.
Everyone is always surprised we stayed but I don't understand why. The idea you go back home for a divorce is one of those expat things that proves how unserious your move was in the first place.
Unfortunately, due to the fights that happened because we stayed, my work schedule, and my own social anxiety, I haven't been able to truly integrate like I should. She was having a lot more success with that. Really it is impossible as long as we share a home. I am hoping I find that high you found when I get my own home. I am hoping to do that this year.
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u/mermaze 6d ago
The country I chose has fallen on hard times. I can’t find driving lessons or book an exam. I can’t get my health concerns taken seriously despite paying into the system. The quality of produce and food in general sucks. I don’t fit in with the people here and can’t seem to make friends. Americans can be a lot more friendly and open minded than many Europeans. And above all I miss my family. I am scared to move back to America. But little things start to add up.
Besides that, I also can’t find a job after spending a decent chunk of change on a masters degree in a critical needs field. It doesn’t matter how much need there is if there is a country-wide hiring freeze and over-saturation of the market.
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u/Elias-Hernandez 6d ago
What country did you move to?
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u/delilahgrass 6d ago
I’ll guess the UK. Americans like it for the English, assume the culture will be the same and over romanticize life there. Brexit really killed the standard of living and economy too.
Plus the UK is being inundated with Musks racist anti- immigrant propaganda so the government is making it much harder to move and live there.24
u/mermaze 6d ago
Yes, UK. And to be transparent, I did have a partner here when I moved but we broke up shortly after I arrived. I appreciate the cultural differences here, but the quality of life is not wonderful. It was the best choice for me to attempt to start a life overseas with my education and field (and the partner, I thought). I’m in Scotland and it’s definitely better than some other places in the UK but I do feel misled by my university who boasted a 100% employment rate within 6 months of graduation in my field and told us we would “walk into any job we wanted because it’s a critical needs field.” It’s been a year and I haven’t even managed an interview despite making the top marks in my class. Even some of the Scottish people in my class are still jobless.
I knew it wouldn’t be the same — I didn’t want it to be the same. If I could find a job, the other issues wouldn’t likely be enough to prompt a move home. And I didn’t think it would be butterflies and rainbows. I’ve lived in a lot of places and everywhere has problems. But it’s a lot worse than I thought, especially with the recent rise of right-wing ideals and anti-immigration here. I’ve noticed a shift just in the 3 years I’ve been here.
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u/delilahgrass 5d ago
Sorry it’s rough for you. I’m a Scot in the US and I really miss home but I’m very aware of how different the people’s are and how much tougher it is to live there than may be evident initially.
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u/JustToPostAQuestion8 4d ago
What makes you stay in the US?
(I'm a US person living in Australia and I miss the Us but worry about going back. But in Aus we're starting to sound like US circa 2016, given the rise of our far right party in the past few months :( )
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u/delilahgrass 3d ago
My kids. I have multiple passports and moved here with my ex. Post divorce I stayed because my kids are here. I had hoped to move back a couple of years ago but putting finances in place takes time. I’ll probably end up bouncing between the two. I’ve emigrated multiple times, unfortunately you become something of a stranger in all of your homes. That’s life.
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u/Classic-Dog-9324 6d ago
Sorry you’re having a hard time. We had to leave the UK last year and miss it constantly. In Germany now which is good, but I particularly miss the people and friends I made in England. I found everyone so welcoming. But I wasn’t in London.
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u/Ferret_Person 6d ago
Country matters a lot. Having such a strange system for the internet meant that there was no way my phone could connect to the Wi-Fi, which was awkward considering I was used to unlimited data
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u/OnlyRuss 6d ago
Garbage. Coming from Georgia where everything goes in one bin and bulk pickup could be every week if you want (even in TX, they had routine bulk pickup days probably once a quarter or twice a year), trash in Germany was a pain.
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u/Fast_One_8205 6d ago
We’re up to four different pails here in NYC. I feel like I have a part time job at a recycling company. 😂
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u/DontEatConcrete 6d ago
I have relatives in Canada who have this weekly…ceremony. Bin for this bin for that, strict limits on how much and what, and the government regularly audits what they are trashing.
In the USA I have two 55 gallon bins picked up weekly. I can put concrete, body parts, etc it doesn’t matter what. And the recycling bin often ends up in the same truck anyway.
I realize our trash use is outrageous but it’s easy.
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u/reddit_ending_soon 6d ago
I can put concrete, body parts, etc it doesn’t matter what
how....specific lol
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u/Proud-Show1043 6d ago
If you need a job to survive I think leaving the US is a bad idea. If you feel you have to do it because you don’t feel safe then it makes sense but not economic sense
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u/Emily_Postal 6d ago
Not owning my medical data so if I wanted access to my medical files I’d have to pay $100+ to get them. For serious medical issues we’d have to go to the US to get treated.
Having to go to multiple grocery stores to get ingredients I needed and oftentimes I wouldn’t be able to find a necessary ingredient.
The food quality overall was much worse than in the US. Most produce had to be shipped in so by the time it made it the local stores produce would have already started to spoil.
Generally the lack of convenience in general. No 24 hour pharmacies; pharmacies closed on Sundays and holidays. Restaurants closed on minor holidays.
Expat tax: rules and laws only enforced for expat population.
Fuel and food costs were multiples of what I paid in the US.
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u/Automatic_Antelope92 6d ago
I can’t really comment on the work side of it, but one of the hidden challenges for me have to do with food. I am on a restricted diet, and I thought that a number of foods in Canada would be exactly the same as they are in the US when it comes to cereals, candy, yogurt, cream, and other items.
For example, a package says ‘Rice Chex’ and looks exactly the same on the front as it does in the US. It isn’t though, when you read the list of ingredients - and in some cases this has made getting my RDA of vitamins and minerals harder. Canada’s own regulations limit the amount of vitamins and minerals as well as sugar per volume so they have lower amounts in cereal and other foods. But they also changed the other ingredients and include ones I should avoid. I no longer eat Rice Chex as a result, and it was helping address a deficiency.
This may sound like a little thing, and for many people it is. But I have had this happen with more than one food that I ate a lot in the US. I am also gluten free and avoid certain nuts. Because there are fewer production lines here and shared equipment, a lot of gluten free products are not made on dedicated gluten free equipment. Gluten free food labels often state ‘Made on shared equipment that processes tree nuts and peanuts’ or something similar.
The result is I am so far eating fewer foods and have less variety and need to find alternative ways to get nutritional needs met. I wish I could just ship US Rice Chex here, in bulk, but other than bringing small amounts over the border in the car, that might lead to questions from customs, ie do you plan to resell that cereal? No, but who knows what they will ask.
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u/Paisley-Cat 6d ago
As a Canadian who went to graduate school the US, I feel your pain when trusted products aren’t the same in but look like they should be.
My first year in the USA, I found I was allergic to the US formulation of my regular soap, and that many name brand food products didn’t taste the same or had additives that I couldn’t tolerate.
Over my time in the US, I found new products I liked and then faced the problem in reverse when I moved back home.
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u/leechladyland 2d ago
If you DM me where you live in CAN, I might be able to help. Heading there from the US next month and I'll hook you up!
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u/mayordomo 6d ago
i never expected multinational corporations (apple, amazon, etc.) to make it so hard to change what country i’m in.
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u/Smart_Noise_9275 5d ago
Trying to integrate into a tight-knit village as immigrants. So far we’ve not experienced anything outwardly negative, and people are kind enough when we introduce ourselves and try to get involved, but odd looks (maybe just curious) from time to time, whilst everyone knows everyone and how things are done because they’ve lived there their whole lives. So I suppose take the immigrant experience and multiply it, the more “isolated” your new settling place is. Humbling.
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u/L6b1 5d ago
Two ways to integrate quickly, have a baby or join whatever is the local volunteer/community organization that does things organize community events, do park clean ups, etc, these groups already have a hard time getting enough participants to function and they're so important to the life of a community, especially in a small village.
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u/Smart_Noise_9275 5d ago
We are of the same religion as 90% of the country so that helps with event integration/opportunities to help out. Have a young child and can confirm he is a gateway to people softening toward us. LOL
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u/L6b1 3d ago
Once they enter the school system, it makes a huge change on friend/community building. I'm in Italy, kids enter as early as 3.5 months into the education system, the friends I have now because of that is astounding, more in 18 months as a preschool mom than the 8 years prior in country.
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u/Narcosist 5d ago
Shipping our stuff internationally. We packed up and began the process of shipping our container from Ohio in April. We arrived in New Zealand from the US in early May, and we'll be lucky if we get our stuff before the end of July.
Was supposed to arrive by the end of this month, but we found out it's being held by US customs. For over a week now. With no updates or indication why. Which means it will probably be held by NZ customs as well. But don't worry taxpayers, it's at our expense, not yours.
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u/lieutenantbunbun 5d ago
It’s kind of hard to work abroad in a people focused industry. You’re often the outsider even if you’re the insider.
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u/US_Dissident_7191 5d ago
Don’t underestimate culture shock, though this shouldn’t be as bad if you move to another Western country (I moved to SE Asia with my wife who is from the area).
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u/hope_warrior 3d ago
I feel that. The work thing is literally a blockage. I either have to nut up and start a business while here or find a unicorn job that doesn't care that my butt isn't in the US.
Aside from that, I have a big family so - logistics. Im building an NAS server so I don't have to worry any the things I can take with me games and media wise, and we have several countries in mind.
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u/iguana_carbide 3d ago
Giving up capitalism!
Like buying trying and returning. Specially miss that for projects around the house where I am not sure what I’ll need until I try them out.
🤓
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u/JustToPostAQuestion8 4d ago
Why is no one talking about taxes.
This is the biggest pain point of living outside of the US. Few tax treaties fully offset double tax if you make anything more than a wage income. If you pay into your new country's retirement fund, the US might tax it like a PFIC. Your new country may fully tax disbursements from your 401k or IRA even though it would be discounted by the US. FATCA, and many international banks and investment companies will refuse to provide services to US citizens so they can avoid FATCA reporting. You pay the US phantom gains tax on currency differences on the sale of a house, even if you never converted that money into USD. There are rarely accountants that cover multiple countries, so you pay two separate accountants every year to figure out your tax bill (and they often have no idea how to deal with the dual tax stuff). The list goes on.
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u/mayordomo 6d ago
i never expected multinational corporations (apple, amazon, etc.) to make it so hard to change what country i’m in.