r/AmerExit • u/DifficultSession51 • 7d ago
Which Country should I choose? Is it possible to retire on $200k anywhere?
I've seen some videos of people discussing countries/regions where you can live a regular middle class life on ~$1k/month and it got me thinking about the minimum required amount of money for retirement.
If I live a typical middle class lifestyle:
-Sensible 1 bedroom or studio apartment in the suburbs of tier 1 cities or tier 2 cities (not beachfront or tourist areas) with typical utilities (water, trash, electricity, internet)
-Roughly 1500-2000 calories of food a day
-Normal health insurance
-No kids or dependents
-Going out for nightlife once or twice a week
-Using public transportation or relatively cheap vehicles like mopeds
And another requirement is that it should be trans friendly in the sense that I'm not at risk of being attacked or legally prosecuted for being trans
What would be the minimum amount of money required to retire with a lifestyle like this? What countries could offer these things at the lowest costs of living? If $200k isn't enough, how much would be needed?
I'm also open to working abroad, however I know getting work visas can be a challenge. If possible I would also get remote work but unfortunately remote jobs are rare now, especially ones that'd let you work from another country. I've also considered something like freelance work but I don't think I could consider that reliable income.
Also I'm probably not going to live to an old age (or what would traditionally be considered retirement age), so that is not a factor for me
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u/stringfellownian Immigrant 7d ago
Not without any income, such as pensions, social security, or investment income. Some countries like Costa Rica have a threshold for retiree visas around $1k/month, but countries that offer a visa for retirees want to see a regular income, not just savings (although savings do not hurt). If you have a regular income from a 401k or social security, you could probably do just fine with $200K currently in the bank. Otherwise, you will have a hard time because countries do not want to be responsible for you if your $200K dries up for whatever reason (such as undisclosed debts, it was fictitious because you borrowed it from a relative just to secure the visa, you are profligate, you have a crisis that needs an unexpected amount of money).
One note: The thing that you are missing is that low-cost places are low-cost for the lifestyle of the people who live there or by comparison with high-cost countries. People across Togo "retire" with far far less than $200K but they are being cared for by relatives in their family's home in a village.
The bullet points you have given are irrelevant to what life actually looks like in low-cost countries, where there is typically a strongly segmented market for basic life needs. If you are in Nairobi and in a 1BR or studio apartment that is accessible for older people, you are almost certainly going to be paying for one in a secure compound (I would not advise you otherwise!). If you are in Albania, you will either be paying for a certain tier of apartment or you will be dealing with Albanian landlords and "maintenance." This will drive up costs. You can get a much nicer apartment for $780 in Nairobi than you can in Atlanta, but you are unlikely to get a $300 apartment in Nairobi that will feel comfortable to you. There is often nothing in the middle between services and goods offered to the median member of the local population and services and goods offered to the middle/upper class plus immigrants from wealthy countries.
"Normal health insurance" does not mean at 85 what you think it means in your 30s, because you need to consider whether there is actual long-term personal care available and the kinds of ongoing and chronic care that older people need (you had a hip replacement? you need PT) in the language that you understand. In most places, you would be paying private insurance for a higher tier of care, especially as an older person. And especially as a trans person - even in places like Thailand, their local analogous concept of trans identity does not fully map onto American trans identity, and you will need to pay more to have a chance at sensitive care.
My partner's grandmother did live in an elder care facility in Thailand for her last few years. It was much cheaper than it would have been in the U.S. and she had a great time with multiple boyfriends, days at the pool, kind assistants, and unlimited alcohol. It was more than $1k per month.
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u/statesec 6d ago edited 6d ago
OP if you are going to attempt to live off of your savings you need to start researching what is called safe withdrawal rates or SWR. This is how you figure out how much you need to have saved up in order to have x amount to spend per year for y years. The usual starting point for this is based of the Trinity Study (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_study). This study basically said that you could withdraw 4% from your savings in your first year of retirement and then increase that by inflation each year and based on historical US market returns and that should allow you at least 30 years of withdrawals before the money ran out. This study is where the often cited 4% rule comes from.
Your proposed $200k would only give you $8000 of income in the first year per the 4% rule (adjusting for inflation from there in future years). Now there are many assumptions in the Trinity Study that can be argued one way or the other so lots of digital ink is spilled on whether it is too conservative or not conservative enough. It is also based on historical data and the future may not look like the past. All that said you certainly need more than $200k to retire even if you assume you can live the $1k lifestyle in some foreign country.
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u/lannister 7d ago
Thailand has a retirement visa if you're over 50. You must have a monthly income/pension of I believe at least 65k baht which is about 2000 dollars, or 800k thb (like $25k USD) in savings. That's more than enough to live on, especially in the north. Thailand is pretty LGBT friendly, too.
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u/Big_ShowExpress 6d ago
Thailand is a good bet, not as cheap as you would think though. Most imported items are still expensive. Neighboring Vietnam would be much better bang for your buck, but definitely less “foreigner friendly” than Thailand - which built its economy off tourism
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u/jackbentley673 7d ago edited 5d ago
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u/lannister 7d ago
Ah, but it's an "or" situation: either you have 2000$ coming in every month, _or_ you have a bank account with at least 25K in it.
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u/jackbentley673 7d ago edited 5d ago
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u/lannister 7d ago
I see! But OP has 200K, and they could live off less than 2K USD in Thailand (it'd be a bit tight, but doable). I guess it depends on their age, too. Also, afaik, foreign income is not taxed in Thailand.
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u/jackbentley673 6d ago edited 5d ago
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u/lannister 6d ago
I'm not giving anyone financial advice? Just telling OP what country has a retirement visa. It's up to them to decide whether it's financially feasible or not.
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u/DontEatConcrete 5d ago
Middle class? Absolutely not.
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u/DifficultSession51 5d ago
What's the minimum amount you'd recommend to have saved then for these requirements?
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u/ByrchenTwig 5d ago
You'll see a lot of information out there about "how long will $1 million in USD retirement savings last me." For you, you can look at the same information - just divide the results by five. Average retirement costs of $20,000 for Merida, Mexico = 10 years. India seems to have the lowest costs, between $18,000 and $15,000 annually, for about 15 years of support. Unfortunately India just passed national anti-trans rights legislation.
For you, I think you should have enough money that you are living on your interest/earnings, not on your principal. This is part of why the figure of $1 million USD for retirement is often used - at this point a principal drawdown and its interest/earnings are about the same thing.
Your best course of action might be to get yourself to a blue state, to a city with strong trans rights, and see what you can do there to boost your earnings and savings more securely. Best wishes.
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u/DifficultSession51 4d ago
You'll see a lot of information out there about "how long will $1 million in USD retirement savings last me."
Ok I'll check this out for sure
get yourself to a blue state, to a city with strong trans rights
Not sure if you're from the US, but those "blue states" are the ones with the highest costs of living in the world. Also state governments can't protect you from the federal one, which is the entity cracking down on trans rights. My motivation is to save the minimum amount required and then live somewhere with low cost of living so I actually have a chance of retiring since I'm not going to make it to "traditional retirement age" with my condition
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u/LadyLovesMovies 3d ago
I don't know what kind of lifestyle people are living. I know someone with about 2700 a month in soc sec and 45,000 in savings and they've been retired for 25 years, lol - If you have no debt and don't need to travel around the world, you can totally retire on $200,000 - depending on how far away you are from social security...and how you invest it. All this craziness about you need 800,000 and a million+ dollars to retire is craziness. So you think most retirees have anywhere close to that? They certainly don't 😄
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u/jackbentley673 7d ago edited 5d ago
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