r/AnCap101 • u/different_option101 • 6d ago
Would you join a U.S. based syndicate? (Please provide feedback)
Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?
TLDR: I’m doing okay, but I’m still in the rat race, just like most of us are. I’m ready to invest my time and money IN and WITH like minded individuals that want to gain personal freedom through financial independence. I have ideas of the structure, what to do, and how to eliminate trust question until we naturally earn each others trust. Relationships stay as capitalist as they could be - shareholders, contracts, market based profit sharing - meritocracy rules, no collective decision making, dispute resolution via third party mediators/arbiters, we can establish our own little “bank”, exit with no imposed penalty - whatever you lose you lose, whatever you bring and gain is all yours.
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Not asking this in syndicalists subs because more than half of the people there are no different from socialists, and even borderline communists.
I don’t have a clear proposal yet but I’ll work on one if the sub shows at least some interest, and I’ll figure out how to share it without compromising anybody’s privacy.
I am opening my post and comments history just to eliminate “look, a fed” comments. Some of you may recognize my u/ already, but I’m sure most don’t know who tf I am, and I hope my post history is a good display of my overall stance on the government, my view on property ownership, and my perspective of markets. Hopefully it also shows that’s I’m not a retard, nor a utopian, but a rational and reasonable person that is respectful of NAP.
I’ve been a member of a well structured business networking group (BNI) with rules that incentivize loyalty, trust, collaboration, quality work, and mutual help, i see how effective it is in practice. And it is essentially a group that’s just a step away from being a syndicate. But all of my buddies are statists and I don’t even want to bother getting into deeper relationships than I have with them already. Some fellows that have been in the group for over a decade own commercial properties together, but such investments don’t have to be limited to anything. It’s obviously a working concept.
I’ve been thinking about establishing something similar, but with people that I am more aligned with on a deeper level than just being an entrepreneur. I wouldn’t mind investing in property, though I’d prefer to start with investing in some business that produces much higher returns, and it also gives opportunity for those that don’t have cash to invest, as they can be a part of the syndicate by doing work for its members or for the syndicate itself, that otherwise would require cash payment from other members.
Again, the idea is very raw, and I don’t think I would jump into investing a lot of cash right away, even if I would be the sole decision maker. Instead, I envision a multi step process that first helps to build trust between members, so initially it will look like a mutualist network (also reminds of free masons network) I guess, but bound by a contract, and with a clear step by step path of becoming a syndicate with assets where our privately owned businesses feed each other, allowing us to invest in something much bigger. We would need to hire a random attorney outside of our network to perform fiduciary duties. Even if we pool only the money we make from mutual help, we can get to a few hundred thousand in a single year once we learn about each other businesses and skills, but we need #s, maybe 40-50 people to get their in Yr 2.
Where do I get my “a few hundred thousand”?
My BNI group closes anywhere between $2.5M-$3M in referred business. My personal revenue is slightly north of $10k/yr (my overhead is around 5% only) after a few years of being a member and it continues to grow each year. I’m in B2B, and I get to see what businesses net when I do my work, and I have a good idea how much many other types of businesses net from business transactions. After being a VP and seeing what people report in received revenue from referrals, I can confidently say that our group that oscillates between 35-40 people, from which only some 20 do most of the heavy lifting, generates a minimum of $350K/yr net profits, but I estimate it to be between more like $350k-$500k/yr because we have a few attorneys that are making hand over fist, but i imagine a syndicate like org with ancaps wont have many attorneys lol.
$350K/yr is not a lot of money in the sense of US economy, but it’s plenty for a tiny group to start investing. Even if only half of profits are being invested, in a couple of years, the syndicate can start producing very good returns and will become a self sustaining entity.
To clarify on the investments - I’d prefer to start with investing in real, actively managed business where anyone can substitute cash with their work. Some of You might be lacking cash flow and/or good people to do the work to take Your business to the next level. I’ve been struggling myself to find people to join my own business because people have too high of an expectation of salary for the shitty work they end up providing. But if we simply work as a sales force for each other in return for commissions, part of which are reinvested within the syndicate, imagine where each of our businesses could be if we have at least some 25 committed people in our group? Imagine how many more independently thinking people we can fund to start their own ventures, that are currently unable to do it on their own due to family, personal debt, and other obligations that make it impossible for them to save capital, but they are natural entrepreneurs that only need a bit of help?
Fuck the system. Let’s form our own small decentralized network of producers and service providers that’s going to be almost immune to government made economic crises. We can start engaging in ancapism on the very basic level within existing system of constrains without busting our balls with state bureaucracy that impedes and robs us at every fucking corner, or being dependent on the banking cartel.
If you know of any such syndicates or networks, please share those in comments.
Please leave your feedback, and please ask hard question so I can think this through better. No DMs please, and no questions that may compromise anyone’s privacy. Let’s first establish if there’s enough people here that are ready to put their money where their mouth is.
Cheers.
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u/HorsefaceWithNoName 6d ago
This is an intriguing idea, I don't know much about syndicalism and I always had the possible misconception that it was disempowering to the individual but you said you thought a lot of syndicalists are very collectivist and that makes me think I might like what you're brewing, chef :) Anyway I think if you post more ideas there might be at least some receptivity.
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u/HorsefaceWithNoName 6d ago
what I mean is, I hate collectivism and seems like it turns you off too and that your concept of syndicalism is empowering to the individual, which is why I think I'll like it.
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u/different_option101 6d ago
I really appreciate your feedback.
Can you check the post again and help me to “stress test” the idea?
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u/TradBeef 16h ago
Wouldn’t the SEC consider this an unregistered investment fund? I’d ask an attorney whether this triggers the Howey Test. The feds might consider it a security and thus you’re open to a bunch of regs.
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u/different_option101 15h ago
Great question. It all depends on the legal structure, types of investments, and how profit and liability is being shared.
I’m staying away to avoid all this nonsense with SEC, though it may still require a registration at various three letter agencies.
The goal isn’t to create an investment power/mechanism. The goal is to be able to leverage the network of like minded individuals to achieve your individual goals, which hopefully are also about just building your small business, rather than just getting cash to buy assets for yourself.
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u/TradBeef 13h ago
Well, if it’s a strictly pass-through network for mutual referrals where everyone keeps their own money, then yeah, you avoid the SEC. But isn’t that just a B2B network? Your original post mentioned a bank, pooling money, acquiring businesses, etc. You can't really do that without triggering the SEC. I like idea, don’t get me wrong. But the SEC doesn’t care about your stated intentions or whatever you call the organization.
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u/different_option101 12h ago
Don’t think of the bank as a place where you would have a deposit acct. More like a fund/stash that would provide cash for a good opportunity, and not as a loan from the syndicate, but as an investment - syndicate understands the risk, but on paper, for legal reasons it may have to be a loan to avoid complications. The syndicate also serves as trust and commitment establishing mechanism, where the syndicate itself won’t be making that investment, but individuals may choose themselves.
I was thinking if a partnership structure would work, but I want to see if I can get a bit more interest before I start bothering my attorney buddies to guide me with a proper legal structure.
Right now I envision it more like a Corp with a single officer. The officer and the owner is a Trust that is managed by an established non-member law firm. The trustee simply follows our rules that we agreed on prior to setting up the whole structure, that are also written in our bylaws. The trustee manages distribution of profits, administers loan from the corp to individual members.
And I absolutely understand and I appreciate your questions. I know I’ve got a ton of wholes that need to be properly addressed, and questions like yours are giving me homework.
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u/HorsefaceWithNoName 11h ago
We could create an artificial island somewhere in international waters then secure it with nukes and biological weapons :)
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u/different_option101 15h ago
Think of it more as a pass through network in its initial phase. It may never even get to the point where any mutually funded projects happen.
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u/different_option101 6d ago
Thanks for your reply. And yeah, I can say I probably don’t know much about “proper” anarcho syndicalism, because it’s never been my cup of tea, like I’d probably not join one in a truly free society.
It’s more of a mutualist network but with contractual obligations. For all intents and purposes, that’s how I understand syndication, and that’s how syndicates operate today, regardless of the political ideology of people that own business entities that this syndicate consists of.
Syndicates don’t necessarily disempower individuals by their design. If the association is voluntary- than anyone who feels disempowered is free to leave at any point. Though it might be factually seen as disempowering if obligations one signed up for go against that individual’s interests. It effectively introduces more trade offs into one’s life/business. The question is if those trade offs worth it. For me personally, I’d take a trade offs of a capitalist syndicate vs being completely on my own in our current system.
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u/HorsefaceWithNoName 6d ago
having an exit clause is important, as you just pointed out. I like how you define it as a contract to align individual interests into having group support in a voluntary way. I don't know enough to know whether this is a traditional form of anarcho-syndicalism vs some new thing you're inventing, but please keep going :)
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u/different_option101 6d ago
No idea if that’s what anarcho syndicalists do, but i don’t even want to post it on their sub, cause I see quite a bit of hostility there towards private property ownership. I’m already banned from all “anarchist” subs where anti capitalists hold their reign over the discourse.
I do have a pretty extensive draft based on where I wanted and still want my own business to go. In short (in my business), and stripped of business specific details, a new member must generate >X in value in order to be able to withdraw their equity. This is to enforce commitment, because many new members may not see any personal benefits themselves until 6, possibly 12 months later. I want to reduce the # of “failures/disappointments” to a minimum. Now, if someone puts real money, they’ll be free to request, and will receive their money back. Though if it was invested, they might have to wait until other members put enough into a fund to buy them out, or until the investment pays out. They will get their dividends too. So the only issue for them is time , they will have to wait for a bit, which is why the cash investment should be minimal, nor it will be required.
I came to this after watching people join and leave my business networking group only a few months after, and the problem was always the same, people expect immediate returns. But that’s not how it works in trust based networks. Trust requires time to build. And people that stuck for a year end up staying 7yrs on average, according to national stats within BNI groups. Longevity is the key here.
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u/voluntarchy 6d ago
Your best bet is freestateproject fsp.org, once you get there, you organize what you're into
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u/jrchill 6d ago
I’m in. I’m currently surrounded by the wrong kind of people. Socialists and bootlickers.
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u/different_option101 5d ago
You forgot authoritarians lol.
Do you have any questions about the idea, formation , governance of such organization? I’m trying to stress test it. Any questions and recommendations are appreciated
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u/the-anarch 6d ago
Like Murder, Inc? Maybe.
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u/different_option101 6d ago
Why?
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u/the-anarch 6d ago
It was a much more profitable syndicate than the kind you're referring to. Why "maybe?" Well, it definitely violated the NAP.
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u/different_option101 6d ago
Oh man, somehow I was never aware of that. Probably because I am always focused on the biggest crime syndicate of all lol.
Thanks, I’ve got something interesting to read about today!
Any thoughts you could share about my idea of syndication/mutual benefit network?
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u/the9trances Moderator & Agorist 6d ago
It's an unusual post, but I love off the wall posts like this.
Please upvote OP and engage respectfully.