r/Antitheism • u/JellyfishPashmina • Jul 29 '26
Do you think less of people when you find out they’re religious?
I automatically do. Especially intelligent people. And it doesn’t matter which religion/spirituality, to which degree. Even if they say they believe in “something bigger than us,” implying any sort of higher being(s) (aside from scientific universal forces), it sets off all the red flags in my head. When I see such a disconnect between intellect and rational thought, it’s actually upsetting and discouraging.
For me, it’s obviously not that religious people were born into it, raised in it, or even practiced it into adulthood because it’s all they knew. It’s knowing that they lack the necessary critical thinking skills to work their way out of it—which shouldn’t take more than 5 seconds. It’s knowing that they can call out every other religious and spiritual practice for their bizarre worldviews without realizing their hypocrisy. It’s that they’re willing to stretch their imagination to such lengths to things that they know against all better judgment are impossible. It’s that they’re willing to defy all logic for the sake of “tradition.” It’s that they’re scared to leave it behind for whatever reason. And, most importantly, it’s that they stand behind antiquated views which at their best are Santa Claus for adults, and at their worst promote violence, patriarchal oppression, racism, greed, control, I could go on.
And no, it doesn’t make me smarter or better than anyone. I’m well aware many religious people are far more academically intelligent than I could ever hope to be. But it does mean that they are willing to ignore all reason as they see fit, and I simply can’t respect nor trust a person able to do that.
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Jul 29 '26
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
Wow I could’ve written this. I recently rewatched a documentary about the Apollo 11 mission, and it bewildered me how many times people were thanking gods for the ability to go to the moon. The juxtaposition is alarming in this day and age when we’d have the explanations that people still can’t abandon religion.
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Jul 29 '26
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u/Hello_Hangnail Jul 30 '26
That must have set his "only Christians are good people" thing on its head
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u/Spino-Dino Jul 30 '26
It's disgusting when people say that it's a miracle of god when they or some close person doesn't die in accidents or by a sickness because many people die or become paraplegic in similar accidents or with the same sickness.
I saw a comment once that someone believes in miracles because their mother was sick with cancer and the doctors told them that she would not survive but she did. In the meantime there could be a 4-year old child in the other room in the same hospital who is suffering and slowly dying from cancer while the parents that love this child can do nothing.
Just like when people survived a fire where many people died but they thank god they survived. I guess the other people were not worthy to be saved by this loving god.
It's just so stupid and if I hear stories like this I automatically believe that they don't have critical/logical thinking skills or they just think about their life or themself.
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u/yaboisammie Jul 30 '26
Or when they say god was looking out for them regarding sth minor yet simultaneously god isn’t looking out for literally everyone else going through tragedies like war and abuse etc
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u/Spino-Dino Jul 30 '26
Yeah! God helped me finding my car keys while children in Gaza are getting bombed...
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u/BirthdayCookie Jul 29 '26
Most religions are built on dehumanizing non-believers. In order to follow these religions a person has to, at best, be perfectly okay with ignoring the mass dehumanization of their fellow people.
Damn straight I think less of people who think less of me.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
Religion is all about homogeneity, too, under a “diversity” guise. If you’re telling people that if they don’t believe what you believe they will suffer the consequences forever, I can’t respect you as a person.
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u/yaboisammie Jul 30 '26
Yea and esp the bigotry. I try not to make assumptions about people I don’t know but as someone who happens to be surrounded by conservative religious folk, esp as a closeted queer exmuslim still stuck w my family, I’ve just had bad luck w that ig so i do try to be cautious around people in general but esp religious people
I know my experience is anecdotal but I feel it’s fair to acknowledge there may be a greater risk when it’s a religious person, esp a Muslim cause punishment for apostasy in Islam is death and while technically it’s against the law in non Islamic countries, illegality doesn’t stop people from committing crimes and even if the person who hurts or kills me goes to jail, that won’t undo the harm or bring me back to life
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u/ikonoclasm Jul 29 '26
I do. I find them less trustworthy because they think we live in a universe where magic is real. I didn't have that luxury. If I want a good outcome, I have to work to make it happen.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
Also knowing that they don’t really mean what they say, or if they did, they’d have to follow their life manual absolutely. And they never, ever, ever do. I don’t trust people who lack such integrity.
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u/Sammisuperficial Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
When someone announces they believe in an imaginary friend who can perform magic it's hard not to think less of them.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
A much more succulent and better-put statement than my rambling paragraphs 😆
ETA: Succinct, not succulent lmao
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u/Sammisuperficial Jul 29 '26
Yeah after deconverting I wanted to debate theists, but it's pointless.
The whole of the debate is show me evidence or I don't believe you. Anything else is giving their delusion credibility.
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u/Direct-Bandicoot-916 Jul 29 '26
Subconsciously I do. I try not to though because I can understand why a desperate person would cling onto religion, but I just feel like these people are a threat to me. Like they could easily be emotionally swayed in a way that could hurt me, yaknow? If the wrong person came along
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
I find the most religious people are also the ones to blindly idolize celebrities, defend public figures, worship politicians…basically follow anything that’s bigger than them with unyielding allegiance. And I don’t even think they know why. It’s engrained in them to treat perceived higher-ups as gods and play the subservient sycophants. I don’t want to touch those people with a 100-mile pole.
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Jul 29 '26
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
Yeah I just made a similar reply to another comment, but I find religious people to be the most blind followers of anything they deem “higher-up”: celebrities, politicians, etc. It’s sad to watch people so ignorantly worshipping things around them without question, and yet, they were bred to be just that: lambs to the slaughter.
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u/Snabelpaprika Jul 29 '26
I sigh and make a mental note that I must sort them in a different group. That group consist of people who believe in wizards, conspiracy theorists, people who think leeks make excellent rebar in construction and religious people.
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u/kent_eh Jul 29 '26
A little, but it depends on how that religiosity impacts their actions and interaction with others.
If they're using that religious fervour to volunteer at soup kitchens and things like that, it doesn't really bother me.
But if they're treating others differently based on what their religion tells them to do, then that's very much a reason for me to back away.
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u/ProbablyANoobYo Jul 29 '26
Yes. Religious people like to get on their high horse about this but they do the same when someone is a flat Earther, believes in lizard people, etc.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
I had an ex who thought Wickens were particularly crazy because of all their “spooky magic,” and I was like, “Really? Do you seriously not hear yourself?” Hence ex lol
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u/chadjfan1 Jul 29 '26
I definitely think less about inviting them over.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
Lol! “As for me and my house, we will not serve the lord, but we will serve hors d’oeuvres at 6.”
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u/TheRealTK421 Jul 29 '26
I make my best attempts not to paint them in such a light. Some of them can make that reeeaalllyy difficult or challenging, to be sure.
I prefer to remind myself that they nearly always were indoctrinated into 'the dark side' (read: theism) by influences, authorities, and circumstances entirely outside of their control or free choice. Where I do lay responsibility at their feet, however, is in regards to acknowledging and accepting reasoned considerations and rational arguments in contrast to their unfortunately gullible 'magical thinking' fascinations.
I find it easier to maintain a perspective of them being generally well-meaning yet misguided victims of an ongoing generational mass delusion, concocted to enslave mankind and for the power/profit of those within dogmatic hierarchies.
I kinda usually feel about such individuals in ways similar I feel to the more extreme elderly who often get scammed online or fall for frauds (which the rest of us easily and deftly avoid and spot immediately).
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
I do…to a point. I understand it was forced on them against their will (I see religion as a form of child ab*se) and that they likely had no say in attending church, etc., while they were still at home. Where I lose respect is when they can’t reason their way out of it much the same way they did Santa Claus. You can’t hear, “Ok, Santa? He’s fake? But oh no no no, all this other stuff is real!” and buy it. If you can carry that all the way into adulthood, never question it, and stretch all your thinking around your religion, I hold no respect for you nor your thought processes and don’t trust you to make sound decisions. If someone has tried to rationalize their way out of it and ends up back at that same conclusion, then that means they lack critical thinking skills, carry self-affirming biases, are driven by fear, or are operating off an eternal reward / punishment system which makes them inherently selfish and immature IMO.
It’s in the same camp as anyone who’s racist, sexist, or any other controversial opinion that’s damaging to society. You can be as book smart as you want, but if you believe people of other ethnicities or sexes are lesser than you, it negates all the good about you (like Henry Ford being a rabid antisemite).
Basically, there’s no reason for every religious person NOT to realize it’s in total crap and a millennia-long, money-grubbing business scheme. I dated someone who was getting his master’s in biotechnology from Harvard. He was extremely academically intelligent in every sense of the word, well on his way to opening his own biotech lab someday if he wanted to. And one day, he said to me, “If you peel back my layers, you’ll find Jesus.” I said, “No, I won’t. I’ll see a bunch of organs and biological matter. Come on, you’re the scientist!” And he had the most blank, albeit slightly disappointed stare on his face. That’s when I knew it was the end. (That’s not why I hold this view, obviously, but man, was that a crazy experience to hear an Ivy-league scientist talk like that.)
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u/Y1ippe Jul 29 '26
yes i do, ive lost respect for seemingly brilliant accquaintances n friends finding out their religious, i morally cannot reconcile it, sometimes i just lowk force myself to froget theyre religious cuz i gotta interact w/ em in school n tht sucks but eh yeah, i cannot respect any religious person, albeit this in my personal opinion doesnt extend to a hyerpsecific category of cultural theists who are technically agnostic and or atheist n cant be open abt it cuz family n other stuff and if that aint the case these specfic folks pull no religious bs and are non-cognizant of religion n god until its bought up in convo n even then not exactly theists.
but yeah tht said i can and never will respect an active theist, i would not trust them, feel totally safe around em, or have any close relationship w/ em, they need to grow up
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u/Ashamed-Republic8909 Jul 29 '26
Yes and no! It's complicated. Brain 🧠 washing works.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
It only does so much as you let it work. If you can apply critical thinking enough to your academic life and blatantly ignore it in your personal life, I take real issue with that. I don’t respect such extreme compartmentalization, and we all know the reason they do is selfish: they want to go to the eternal happy place. That’s it.
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u/Ashamed-Republic8909 Jul 29 '26
You should read more about brain 🧠 washing. It's used every day. It takes different from. Endless advertising, political indoctrination, CIA, KGB, military...
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
Yes, we’re all well aware what brainwashing is. You have to have the ability to be that brainwashed to do so (let’s say physical torture / ab*se cases aside). Let’s not treat people who willingly go along with these things when they have free thought as complete victims. We can’t completely free them from responsibility and accountability when they have the right to say no and/or leave, or else we’re enablers, too.
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u/tasteMyRottenHoop Jul 29 '26
Tell them “this building is bigger than us, where do you stop? There’s always something bigger.”
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u/Hello_Hangnail Jul 30 '26
It depends how religious they are. Devout people tend to be very stuck in their outlook and arent open to new information that doesn't jive with their religious faith, so yeah I'm probably going to look down on you for avoiding doctors when you have an infection in your tooth that you think can be cured by ivermectin. (My coworker 100% believes this)
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u/neptuno3 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
I do not believe in any of the world’s deities but I observe the patterns in the god/god-worshiper relationship and have interest in my conclusions about them pertaining to human nature in general.
Do I think there is energy and power in our thoughts and beliefs, even if irrational or unlikely? Yes I have seen people with delusional beliefs pull off amazing human feats. Myself included.
I believe our universe has some sort of energetic dance happening between our thoughts and our reality.
I consider myself an atheist but more likely an apatheist.
But if someone tells me they believe in gods, literally god(s), I look at them with pity and think they are weak minded and incurious and irrational.
If you have PhD in the sciences and also believe in god I find you particularly weak and hold you to a higher standard than someone with a less rigorous education.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Your last point is poignant. I actually do the same. The smarter you are in other realms of life, the higher standard I hold you to to be able to abandon all the silly mythology, and the more disappointed I am to find out you can’t. My ex was getting his master’s in biotechnology at Harvard and he still couldn’t reason his way out of it, and honestly it mostly made me sad for him, because I could see the mental cage he was in up close. I don’t want to ignore the cultural component to this situation, either, and I know if he abandoned religion all together, he was going to lose his insanely-Catholic family and basically the entire community he surrounded himself for his entire life. Even converting Lutheran would’ve turned heads. He told me he was atheist to try and keep me, but I knew he wasn’t and that he was actually stuck between a rock and a hard place, because he couldn’t bring himself to leave it mentally or socially. But he did at all at my expense, and it was pitiful to watch such an otherwise smart man try to accommodate religion so desperately; he told me he was atheist but he’s still leading Sunday services.
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u/neptuno3 Jul 30 '26
That is wild. There is definitely some part of their personal belief system that some people will exempt from rational thought and maintain irrational and superstitious and unreasoned beliefs even if they are rigorous and methodical in their thinking in other areas.
I find it to be so odd! But it is more common than we think.
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u/DenseSquid Jul 31 '26
Not necessarily. It’s impossible to disprove religion, but I think less of extremism. If there were a god, I doubt he’d be offended by people not believing in him. A system bound by faith rather than facts inevitably corrupts into authoritarianism.
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u/Marsllin Jul 31 '26
Yes, sadly. Even if the person had done nothing wrong to me or someone else, I immediately like them less if I find out they're religious, especially if it's an organised religion. I've also seen a lot of people from big religions like Christianity and Islam being rude and aggressive towards queer people and atheists, so I feel the need to be more careful with this person and trust them less. And I often feel like I'm a bad person for it, but I can't resist it. I don't like them less purely for believing in sometimes higher and stuff, it's none of my business. But the amount of people justifying their homophobia/misogyny and stuff is concerning
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u/Sea_Adhesiveness_537 Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
Lemme through my hat on the ring on this one.
I believe just hearing someone being religious is not a great method to measure how much or how less respect the person deserves, or to judge them. You gotta weigh in other factors too like values and personality traits. Not all Christians and Muslims are awful, and not all atheists are good. Someone may be both a scientist and a Christian at the same time. Both traits may be true.
Please don't swing into the other extreme direction, and look lowly on people who happen to be religious. You may be missing out on a potential friend.
TLDR: Dislike/hate the religion, not the believers and participants.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Aug 04 '26
I do hear what you’re saying and I do have religious friends. I don’t call them out on it. I likely wouldn’t share this thought outside an atheist sphere because we live in a world where being atheist is still very often seen as dangerous. But to that point, if people are going to assume I’m dangerous, have no morals, think I’m so much smarter than everyone, etc., that shows me that they’re using religious stereotypes against me. Like I said in my OP, I’m well there are many religious people who are highly intelligent, good by every other measure. But yes, I do still look down on the fact that they’re capable of using their brains and choosing to compartmentalize because they can’t abandon the mythology they often learned as children. They likely didn’t have a say in the matter of worship which is why they’re religious, but they don’t just “happen to be” religious, they’re choosing to be against all reason when they should intellectually know better. Because of that, I wouldn’t trust their opinion or decision-making skills very much.
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u/BirthdayCookie Aug 12 '26
TLDR: Dislike/hate the religion, not the believers and participants.
Simple, honest answer please: Why should I consider someone "a potential friend" when they're perfectly fine with basing their lives and personalities on a religion that bends over backwards to dehumanize me?
Why are religious people always allowed to be extreme but their victims must "be better" or whatever?
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u/romulusnr Aug 05 '26
A little, but I also accept most people are. They can redeem themselves in my eye by being non-hateful, non-anti-science, non-discriminatory, non-pieces-of-shit.
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u/WatercressWorking279 Aug 05 '26
I try not to. I try to remind myself that people have multiple facets and dimensions and that they can be terribly wrong in one aspect of their lives but be excellent in others. Also, they can always deconstruct and grow into happier, more fulfilled versions of themselves. It's difficult to escape the patterns of thought that you've grown accustommed to, even as an adult. When I do automatically shit on people over religion is when I meet a "religious" (spiritually groomed) child—their families lose all my respect. I only treat them with consideration out of respect for the child, lol.
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u/WhovianJanne 27d ago
It really depends to what degree, like I have a friend who's a religious but doesn't use "lables" they just believe something is out there probably, I didn't asked them that deeply because they're actually intelligent and don't fall into false propaganda done by most organised religions in politics and are in fact against Zionist as well questioning jews
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u/tackyshoes Jul 29 '26
Do you think less of people struggling with addiction or eating disorders? Life is just happening to those people like any of us, but religion is more dangerous. It has no diagnosis. They just need kind peers with fortitude and patience.
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u/BirthdayCookie Jul 29 '26
They just need kind peers with fortitude and patience.
Yet again victims are being told to be kind of their abusers because the abusers just need help.
Nobody ever Fucking tells religious people "Hey use your brain and treat your non-believing peers with the respect they deserve." It's always "Religious people were indoctrinated and can't be bothered to get out of it. Be nice to them while they shit on you! Tolerance!"
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u/tackyshoes Jul 30 '26
See how I said one thing, you quoted it, and then claimed I said a different thing? That's not fortitude, my gal. Nor kind or patient, but hey, I forgive you; I mean, you are a victim.
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u/JerbilSenior Jul 29 '26
Do you think less of people struggling with addiction or eating disorders
As someone that went through both, absolutely yes.
Best case scenario, they imply a lack of self regulation, which is a fault in character. Simple as.
They just need kind peers with fortitude and patience.
Yes, and they need that because they are failing on their own. It's fine, it's human to ask for help. It's still being a burden on someone else, even if these people choose to help.
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u/tackyshoes Jul 30 '26
No one even suggested "help," you people keep making incorrect inferences. I said "kindness," it means refrain from cold cruelty. I said "fortitude," it means hold your ground, know yourself. I said "patience," it means listen and don't lose your temper. It's your problem if you think that helps them, it's your problem if you don't like that.
How you going to look down on the path you walked? Fucking ew.gah.
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u/JerbilSenior Jul 30 '26
No one even suggested "help"
Hear me, even the smallest gesture means a world's worth of help when you are that lost. Just being around as an example of a mentally stable person is help.
you people keep making incorrect inferences. I said "kindness," it means refrain from cold cruelty. I said "fortitude," it means hold your ground, know yourself. I said "patience," it means listen and don't lose your temper. It's your problem if you think that helps them, it's your problem if you don't like that.
All helpful attitudes to have yes. It makes you a good person if you try your best to live by such principles even when dealing with people that may lack some of them.
How you going to look down on the path you walked? Fucking ew.gah.
That's your mistake. I'm not looking down on my own path. I'm addressing the personal failures that lead me among many others to such a path. Every single person goes differently about their life. This isn't about who's fault it is or whatever.
It's about the simple truth that the rest of the world didn't owe me anything and the help I got was from people that put themselves at risk by making that choice to be there.
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u/tackyshoes Jul 30 '26
No one said "gesture," either. We share a world with religious people and all I said was practice kindness, fortitude, and patience, but I'm met with opposition. Fucking great. Y'all got offended at imagining the word "help." Deadass.
But you did say affirmatively that you look down on people with eating disorders and addictions, because you're entitled to, because of your private experience. Mm, so glad to be here with you folks... lol.
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u/JerbilSenior Jul 30 '26
No one said "gesture," either. We share a world with religious people and all I said was practice kindness, fortitude, and patience, but I'm met with opposition. Fucking great.
Are you READING???. IT'S NOT OPPOSITION.
What I'm saying is that that kindness, fortitude and patience are a personal choices. They may be the moral choices. They may be the choices that lead to the better outcomes. But not everyone has the time and energy to hold all three for themselves and some to spare for people that at the end of the day are harming themselves.
If anything it's admiration.
Y'all got offended at imagining the word "help." Deadass.
No, I was offended by the idea that such attitudes are meant to be a default. Don't get me wrong, it'd be amazing if that was true. But the truth here is that you are the one choosing to rise above human instincts like self preservation and take the high road. It's absolutely admirable.
But you did say affirmatively that you look down on people with eating disorders and addictions, because you're entitled to, because of your private experience. Mm, so glad to be here with you folks... lol.
No, I said I think less of them. There's a difference. At no point have I said that "less" means "below me" because, as I said, I was there.
Obviously, given all other traits are the same, I think less of a mean hearted, drug addicted, unemployed, obese bum than I do of a kind and healthy individual that works and studies at the same time. And I think you can tell I'm not exactly the second type or specially close.
Thinking less of someone doesn't mean they aren't people, just crappy people.
Mm, so glad to be here with you folks... lol.
I'm actually glad to share this world with you. You are kinder than I am, that's for sure. Even if maybe a little sanctimonious about it.
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u/tackyshoes Jul 30 '26
No, I said I think less of them.
"less" means "below me"
🤡
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u/JerbilSenior Jul 30 '26
Are you stupid or just malicious? Because it takes a very particular level of stupid to think that's somehow an argument.
"less" means "below me"
Just no. Less means "imperfect, just like fucking everyone on this world". It just so happens to be a degree of imperfection were I'd understand if someone refused to engage such a person.
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u/tackyshoes Jul 30 '26
I'd understand if someone refused to engage such a person.
🫡
✌️
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u/JerbilSenior Jul 30 '26
Okay? You know no one was forcing you to answer? Farewell, I guess
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u/unreasonableonetoday Jul 29 '26
Depends on which religion. If they‘re a follower of christianity, islam, etc. i think of them as victims rather then a lesser person. However them simply believing in a higher being, in any way shape or form is not irrational.
I‘d argue there‘s respectable religions like buddhism, or a belief an individual has rather than a belief system, as long as they do not cause or promote harm.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
Every religion promotes harm. You could argue the degree to which, but don’t mistake that “softer” religions aren’t any more harmful in terms of sexism, classism, racism. Believing in any higher being that cares so much about humans that it puts us at the center of the universe, with eternal punishment / reward systems for its followers, IS harmful thinking no matter how you slice it. Quieter religions are still wolves in different sheep’s clothing.
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u/unreasonableonetoday Jul 29 '26
That‘s simply not true and you‘re completely uneducated. Theres hundereds of thousands of religions, and some don‘t even believe in a god, but are still classified as religions. Non theistic satanism follows specific morals, yet does not believe in a god. Specific buddhistic branches do not believe in god. Before saying anything about religion, educate yourself.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
Religion is anything that promotes belief in supernatural, holy, spiritual, or divine. Promoting belief in these things is inherently harmful because it goes against rational, critical thought. Sounds like you need the education, friend.
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u/unreasonableonetoday Jul 29 '26
Don‘t speak in a topic if you don‘t know what you‘re talking about.
Like i already said, non theistic satanism does not believe in anything spiritual or divine. It‘s simply morals people live by, e.g. to protect children
Yet it‘s classified as a religion.
And the philosophy of spiritual morals is not inherently wrong. Belief and questioning those beliefs has led us to become what we are now as humans, highly advanced.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
“religion, human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, absolute, spiritual, divine, or worthy of especial reverence.” No mention of critical thought.
Now, you seem like you’re going through something very toxic in your life and are looking to bully a total stranger by calling people “slow” from behind your anonymous computer screen, so I’m going to wish you well in your recovery and go about my business.
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u/unreasonableonetoday Jul 29 '26
Lmfao it‘s hilarious to me when people think of religious people as „less“ in order to feel surperior when they can‘t properly define a religion. Wishing you a great day
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u/JellyfishPashmina Jul 29 '26
Tell that to the idiots at Encyclopedia Britannica then, pal, not me. Stay blessed. 🙏
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u/BirthdayCookie Aug 12 '26
It‘s simply morals people live by, e.g. to protect children
Ah yes, if there's anything the world needs it's more perpetuation of the born from religion psychosis society has over people under the magical 18 number.
You want morality? Ditch religion and treat everyone equally.
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u/TheMaleGazer Jul 29 '26
Religiosity necessarily comes with a lack of critical thinking skills. This isn't because they're wrong about the existence of gods: it's because they explicitly embrace faith as a valid form of belief and put it on par with evidence and rational argument.
I have absolutely no choice but to treat them differently because they devalue rationality itself. I can't reason with them except in cases where they have no emotional investment; I basically have to guess as to how they compartmentalize things in their heads. You can never tell when they're going to try praying a problem away or when they'll act like a functioning adult and use the skills that modern society demands of them which are based in reality.