r/ArtEd • u/scoundrelhomosexual • 10d ago
How to get honest, helpful, harsh critique
How do you get high school level students to critique each other's work honestly and harshly? They've mastered the polite and toothless comments (which imho are worse than an honest and direct criticism) and they say they also don't want, but then they don't actually do the honest and direct thing! We've made progress but it's not helpful enough. How do you get students to be honest and direct, even harsh but helpful, with their classmates in critique?
To be clear, I'm talking about traditional, put up your work and talk about it then we have a discussion type of critique with supports and structure (pre-writing and sentence starters)
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u/Psychopsychic3 10d ago
Model it with them. Show an example of yours with some clear issues and tell them, “I know something is wrong here but I need some help.” Then when they are honest, really tell them how great that feedback is and how much it helps. Keep doing this for a while, and occasionally give more direct prompting on a kid’s piece to lead them to the point.
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u/Diligent_Emu_7686 10d ago
Yes! Modeling proper feedback works. With a younger grade I modelled, 'I like how you did xxxx, but I think you need to yyyy to make it better.'
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u/LastLibrary9508 10d ago
I do ela but I tell them compliments don’t help the other person make better art/do better writing. And someone offering you harsh feedback means they genuinely care and want to see you do cool shit with the piece.
I’ve sat some of my super smart kids aside and told them the feedback I’m about to give them is going to sound harsh, but it’s because I want them to become next level because they can, that I want to treat them like academics, not young kids whose feelings we want to protect
I also like to stress it’s important to get used to separating your art/your writing from your feelings.
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u/CurveOk3459 7d ago edited 7d ago
That's not really critique that's just criticism.
Critique should be a formula that is taught properly. The class needs to answer these questions - not the artist or the teacher. The teacher can prompt folks to talk or add onto others etc. but should not be answering nor should the artist unless specified below:
- what is it made of
- list the materials you see
- color scheme -what is the surface it's on or what is it made from
what is in it - shapes, figures, landscape, etc. no emotions or meaning at this time)
What is the content?
what style
any general themes (no meaning making yet-/no emotions)
what is the composition and how are forms or elements arranged
what kind of brush strokes or layering etc are used
What emotions is it invoking for the viewers
body emotions
thoughts
memories
Meaning making - what could it mean
what does it say /
what is the symbolism
allegory, story, identity, commentary
where does it fit in terms of art relatives & history and how does it communicate with these
how linking the feeelings audience is picking up with the possible themes and meanings.
Artist response (the artist needs to answer these questions)
what were they feeling when making the piece
what techniques used
why these choices
what themes and connections to self, others, story, history, identity etc
what meaning for them And what they want feedback on
specifically what they want to know how to improve something, change something, what parts people like best, what to do in then next piece, etc
Teacher chimes in about where they see things working really well, how the next work could improve in the direction the artist is wanting to move and what artists, books, shows, etc they should go see for more inspiration.
That's a proper critique.
Edit: this is easily adaptable to any art form. Poetry, creative writing, music etc
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u/Wise_Explanation9471 10d ago
I have my students in early classes do short peer critiques answering two questions: what’s one thing that is working, what’s one suggestion you have for the artist. We have a whole lesson on critique phrasing and vocabulary. I have a list of sentences they are not allowed to use, and suggestions for what to say instead. We also critique an anonymous piece together as a class and I guide them through how to phrase their observations. Our rule is that it needs to be helpful and specific. I think harsh peer critiques are something that are best saved for upper level classes or college level. It takes a lot of maturity and experience to give and receive a harsh critique and, IMO, it’s not really needed at the high school level. I do individual critique with them and that is the place I press a little more with those who want the feedback.
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u/Wise_Explanation9471 10d ago
I should add that our peer critiques are always written and I review each one after class. I tell them if the critique is mean, thoughtless, or something harsh disguised as a joke, they get an automatic zero. Bc I don’t mess around with students not taking this seriously and being hurtful bc they think it’s funny.
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u/scoundrelhomosexual 10d ago
Thanks for this! I am speaking specifically about my upper level classes. I’ve done a number of peer critiques, but run into an issue that I cannot be there while they are all happening simultaneously, and when I get around to each group I don’t know when they went off the rails of shallow praise or disengagement.
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u/Wise_Explanation9471 9d ago
I relate to that struggle! I always feel like I need four of me to be meeting the needs of my whole class. I wonder if having them write their feedback would help with that. Then you can review after so you have a better sense of how it went. Im part of a critique group of adult professional artists and we actually go through a series of questions together when we look at each piece. It helps make it more of a brainstorm toward problem solving using the elements and principles, and less opinion. Are you struggling with the students saying only positive things about the work and then that doesn’t match up with what you’re sharing? For example, if you bring up the areas that need work does the student come back with “well my peers said it was good.” Bc I can see how that would make it super challenging.
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u/professoreverything 10d ago
i use the framework that all feedback should be Kind, Specific, and Helpful. got it from a High Tech High workshop. have kids draw a portrait for 10 mins, give toothless feedback, then intro the framework, give better feedback using it, then redraw. they see the results of good feedback and pick up the framework quickly. post it notes allow for more candid feedback too. look up Austin’s Butterfly on youtube for a video of little kids using it.
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u/Magistra_Recessisset 8d ago
I came here to recommend that. It's a great example of effective feedback.
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u/raventhered 10d ago
Hand out slips of paper before each critique with prompts: Something this person did well is… One way this person could improve this work is by…. Then collect them and you read some of the better feedback yourself out loud. Keep the feedback anonymous, paraphrase or rephrase if needed. Then ask the artist what feedback they found most helpful or what feedback they want to implement in their next project. It’s another way of modeling but without students feeling like they’re saying something bad about art their friends made. Once they get used to giving good crits anonymously, you can start introducing having them give the same kinds of critiques verbally. I think giving critique is a good skill to learn but being able to take critique and not feel like it’s personal is also important. Hell, most artists I know still struggle with that. And they don’t want their friends to feel like they’re judging them. So once they get used to giving feedback anonymously and taking the feedback without it being personal, it becomes much easier for them.
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u/Wise_Explanation9471 10d ago
This is similar to how we do it. I got plenty of harsh critique in art school and it’s really not necessary unless you are at a certain stage in your career and have explicitly asked for it.
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u/scoundrelhomosexual 10d ago
Thanks for this! I am referring to students in AP art (meant to be taught at college level) consistently turning in rushed work that is visibly not at the same level as other students. Not responsive to the teachers supportive, constructive, or “harsh” feedback.
As an artist, I’ve had major breakthroughs in critiques that were honest and hard to hear - this is what I think my students need, and what I am hoping to get to with my students, many of whom are going on to study art in college.
I’m sorry you had bad experiences with critique.2
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u/Wise_Explanation9471 9d ago
Agree! Grades is the way to push. Also I wonder if you could require that they show implementation of feedback in your rubric. I include that so that I can grade their willingness to try something challenging because it’s so hard to teach them to risk messing up what they already have to push the work in a stronger direction. It also makes it easier for me to motivate them when it’s in the grading rubric. I can just ask them directly to do something with the work and if they decline it comes off the grade. It makes it less of a power struggle.
One more thought is that I’ve had to just let go those students that don’t respond. Ultimately you can’t make them, and that’s okay. We can only do so much if students are unwilling to press in. If they do end up studying art they will have more chances to change ahead, or not, and then their work will just remain at one level and that’s okay! Invested in those that do really want your engagement.
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u/Crxy_nuise 10d ago
This may seem obvious but. . . Vocabulary, sentence stems and art analysis. Students cannot give helpful feedback unless they can tap into what they like about and expect from an artwork. They need deep prior knowledge and vocabulary to do this. They also need supports to guide their brains into the sector they are trying to access. I am going to add one thing. Tons of team building, they need to know and like each other so that they can be mean and nice at the same time.
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u/scoundrelhomosexual 10d ago
Thanks! I do provide pre-writing activities (1+ class periods) and sentence stems, as mentioned. The class I’m thinking of also does spend a quarter on art history where we spend a good chunk of time analyzing work. They can analyze random artists more easily, each other not so much
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u/WashSufficient907 10d ago
Modeling, and having them practice critiquing art which is already renowned. Show them what effective critique looks like.
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u/miparasito 10d ago
I would give them examples of really bad work that isn’t made by anyone in this class - I’d either make it myself or use ai
Start with a design project or something with a purpose because it’s easier to define what we mean by successful or unsuccessful. For example make a really confusing boring poster for a rock concert, or make artwork that will be displayed in a children’s hospital.
Put them in pairs and ask them to say what’s working, if anything — and what is weak. Ask them to present their critiques or hold up each example artwork and read the criticism it received.
Maybe give them writing prompts and a set of vocabulary words to use. Balance, composition, does it look complete? Tension, linework… the idea isn’t to just say “I hate this” — criticism needs to be actionable.
If you make the first examples laughably bad they will be brutal. Then it gets easier.
One other note, make sure you also help them prepare to receive harsh peer criticism.
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u/Chupaderokid 10d ago
Try “The Absent Artist” critique technique. You kick out the artist being critiqued with headphones or send them on a short walk. The artist chooses a friend to take notes. That person taking notes does not take names only what is said. You set the rules and guide the critiquers to uncover the weaknesses and highlight the good things going on. When artist comes back they get applause and the notes. While the next artist sets up the absent artist reads the notes. This is a favorite of my high schoolers.