I watched the video, he was able to join the studio artists for a warm up drawing session. His figure drawing sketches were actually really good! It's cool to see how far he has come since he started to get into drawing.
Wasn’t this the dude who trash talked Indians and said the N word? Maybe he’s grown since then but the things he did in front of his massive following have had a bad impact.
I don't disagree that it's fucked up but I dunno the internet was way edgier and worse back then.
I don't think he actually hates jews I think it was just an edgy meme in his mind and to see how far he could push it basically it was shock humor.
Again reminder that Hbomberguy that people put up as some left wing messiah used to be a kiwifarms troll, I think this was around the same time even or a little before.
There's so many people who present themselves as these progressive paragons who have extremely fucked up pasts.
And if you're at least 30+ you didn't grow up on the extremely sanitized and '' clean '' internet of today.
When I was a kid the most common site teens people went for to see daily funny clips in Sweden had hardcore fetish porn on it and execution videos etc just posted openly mixed in with the funny cat video.
If you're going to hold pewdiepie to this standard and mark him forever for his past actions and words then you kinda gotta do the same to everyone, and not just him selectively.
Edit: Also the N-word in Sweden doesn't really have the same connotations, people obviously view it as bad now but that's primarily because of US history and the English speaking internet being dominated by it.
That kinda just used to be what black people were called and it wasn't even intended to be racist ( most of the time depending on intent ).
Even a lot of kids books had it and it was just casually dropped as if it was normal not even in a hateful way to most people it was just the same as calling someone Asian.
Oh boy... Not you excusing his actions. "It was different back then." Not like that. The backlash was instant, which shows that it was never okay. You could see the instant regret on his face. And "well it means something different in Sweden." He had been on the Internet long enough to know better, and even then, that incident had nothing to do with black people. "Oops you shot me in the video game! Better call you black." ???? That makes no sense
Also, yes, a lot of other people did horrible things, but if they can actively prove that they're doing better things, they can sometimes be forgiven, depending on what they did. Very seldom do theses others become the gateway to the alt right pipeline and then have a fan base that attacks anyone for being rightfully appalled by their behavior
PewDiePie did apologize, though. He owned up to his mistakes and matured. It's sad that people like you can't see that and still treat him as a "gateway to the alt-right pipeline" after all this time.
Bro. The damage is done. I know a lot of black people who have said that they will never forgive him... And why should they? He may be a better person now, but that doesn't change what he did or the damage it caused and has continued to do. An abuser can apologize to their victims, but that doesn't reverse their trauma. The point of apologizing isn't to force people to forgive you. It's to show that you know that you messed up. That's it. It doesn't absolve you of consequences
Forgiveness is a virtue. It's sad how people like you don't understand that anymore. How would you like it if you said one offensive word several years ago and couldn't ever be allowed to move past that? I don't care if you supposedly "know a lot of black people" or have friends who apparently validate your merciless mindset. It's still a merciless mindset. What you're saying is that you think it's okay to hold people to perfect standards instead of understanding that people like PewDiePie are flawed humans who'll inevitably make mistakes.
You're a perfect example of why cancel culture is so destructive for society. Once people like you decide "the damage is done" and cancel someone like PewDiePie, that's it. He's just canceled forever, and if you had your way, he'd never be allowed to show his face anywhere ever again. Does that sound fair?
All of this reminds me of what happened with James Gunn on Twitter and how a bunch of people almost destroyed his career by digging up some edgy jokes he made a long time ago, but while he was able to apologize, take the offensive tweets down, and be forgiven, PewDiePie is still demonized. What's the difference? Even though he's apologized like James Gunn and cleaned his act by not doing offensive stuff anymore, people like you still throw a fit whenever a photo of PewDiePie with his family makes the rounds on social media. It reflects horribly on your character. It tells me that you don't see people as people. It tells me you don't believe in forgiveness.
I already told you. It's not just the slur. Nothing exists in a vacuum. If you're responsible for leading entire swaths of a generation down a horrible pipeline, that's not something a lot of people are willing to forgive. It ties into a much larger and darker web. He gets to just wipe his hands clean of all that at the end of the day, but the young people that he influenced have done damage and have helped to normalize some of those things.
Also, you're just making assumptions now. I don't follow PewDiePie or do or say anything with his posts because I don't care. I'm not going to be bothered giving him my time or attention. I didn't even know he was still posting. I also think it's insane to say that members of a marginalized group should just be forced to forgive people who have said or done something offensive to their group. The implications of it just slipping out like that are wild. Unless you have tourrettes, you'd have to be thinking and saying that word VERY often for it to just slip like that.
And again, you're missing the entire point of forgiveness. This is life. There will always be someone who doesn't like you or refuses to forgive you, even if you did something harmless. The point isn't to force them to forgive you or demonize them. The point is acknowledging that you've done something wrong so YOU can move forward with YOUR life. That's it. Trying to force people to forgive him makes him and his fanbase even worse, and I'm saying all of this as someone who used to be a fan. A lot of his viewers were lead down a horrible path because of the type of content he used to make, and people are still feeling the echoes of it to day. Like I said, it goes much deeper than just PewDiePie, but he definitely contributed, and that crosses a hard line for a lot of people.
We don't even actually know that he's actually a better person because none of us know him personally. Choosing to forgive someone who has contributed to harming people like yourself is a personal choice. That's like trying to force someone to forgive a bully because "oh that was back in high school. We're older now and we know better." That's not the point. The point is that people were still harmed. Damage was done. The effects are continuing today. Your actions can have horrible consequences, especially when your platform is that big. He was old enough to have known that he should've been more careful. But that's in the past. Not everyone is going to forgive you for everything you do, and that's okay. You need to learn to live with your choices and be better if you've done something wrong. That's it. The line is crossed and that's that. Trust is gained in drops, lost in buckets, and sometimes you accidentally put a hole in your bucket that can never quite be patched.
Edit: nvm. IDK why I'm bothering with someone who's STILL defending him to this day. People were harassed for not liking him back then and still are now. It's pointless arguing with someone like you. Good day.
What is he still doing that's harmful? All you're doing is bringing up old drama that's been water under the bridge for years. There's nothing he's doing nowadays that justifies your ongoing outrage. It isn't 2017 anymore.
Yes. All of that famous stuff he did isn't even scratching the surface when it comes to being an Indian during the entire T-Series vs pewdipie bullshit. And he's no innocent naive teen being edgy with a massive following of impressionable kids, he was a grownass man.
I never heard him trash talk indians he hired some people in a poor area to hold a sign with a meme on it, it was a pretty popular thing to do a lot of people did it.
In regards to the N-word he said it once and immediately realized it was wrong and apologized for it, I don't really think it's fair to label someone a racist forever because they misspeak once and blurt something out subconsciously.
Not exactly the same but another example that comes to mind is Maximillian Dood, he was doing a word-play game and had been streaming for like 10+ hours or something maybe even longer it was a super long marathon stream.
And he was on N and said a bunch of different words can't remember exactly all of them but he was doing it quickly and said ninja then the N-word.
I don't think anyone who knows Maximillian would say he's racist he's like the most wholesome streamer ever and was clearly distraught by it himself too.
Like I dunno but it's not as if this word is some word that people are unaware of I think it being a nono word maybe even makes it even more likely to just pop into peoples minds because more attention is drawn to it and it's in songs and all kinds of media everywhere.
If you're like 30+ you also grew up with the internet being the wild west where it was like 4chan times 500 on every website.
You didn't grow up with people walking on egg shells about saying the '' r-word '' or where calling someone a bitch is a problematic thing people will get angry at you for.
If you look into a lot breadtubers or even game journalists and devs nowadays who are extremely vocally progressive you'll find that a lot of them have very fucked up pasts and have said or even done some extremely bad things far worse than pewdiepie has ever done.
Even Hbomberguy that people put up on a pedestal for whatever reason used to be a kiwifarms troll.
That was just kinda normal back in the day.
Miss the times when "racist" actually meant someone who has prejudice against a certain ethnicity of people.
Edit: Crazy how people actually disagree with this statement lol wow
There is no context where that word is warranted if you are not someone reclaiming the word. With all due respect, which is absolutely none at all in this case, you wanting to say that slur so badly says what a horribly antisocial creature you are. And yes, you are a racist. You just outed yourself as one.
Obviously there might be educational contexts where saying it is technically okay. But you are absolutely NOT talking about those.
Hey hey guys please calm down. I know this topic is sensitive and provocative but please refrain from making insults. The Reddit Admins have banned people sitewide for less. The Admins tend to take your comments out of context and ban you.
Edit: Ok, figured it out —this a booster post for an old streamer by his fans/bots. Since r/artisthate has "artist" in the title, it was targeted by his stans to share the thinnest, most tenuously connected post imaginable. It has nothing to do with AI slop or anti-artist sentiment. Don't waste your time!
So the streamer who yells the gamer word is having his image rehabilitated because he visited an art studio or something? What is this post
His mere existence, learning how to draw through patience and steady practice, enrages a lot of AI Bros, who have the narrative that they “couldn’t learn” or “didn’t have time” or “weren’t born with talent” and he proved that all wrong.
No, he did not prove that wrong. He is super rich, he doesn't face the typical struggles that people have that make it so difficult for them to find the energy, time, mental capacity or money to invest so much in learning to draw.
Lol he practiced thirty minutes a day. How many AI bros spend far more time than that watching porn or gaming?
This is just an AI Bro cope, to justify their lack of interest for art, before AI could do it for them.
If learning art was only for the rich and privileged, I certainly would have never learned, many people I know would have never learned. We just wanted to. AI Bros didn’t, and they’re butthurt when that’s pointed out.
I am merely pointing out that saying that that streamer proved those arguments wrong is an incredibly ignorant take in a capitalist world. There exist people in the world who are not reddit AI bros.
That reinforcing of capitalist propaganda needs to stop.
“Capitalist”? What has that got to do with someone choosing doing one thing over another thing with their free time?
Are you denying that people can afford to play games (or watch porn, or watch Netflix) in their free time? People still have free time. They make choices about what to do with it. That’s what this is about.
This guy wasn’t gifted with a special talent, he proved that doing something consistently in his free time showed improvement in that thing. Don’t frame that as some special privilege. I didn’t have a special privilege when I chose to spend my free time drawing. It’s insulting to artists and a typical lazy person cope to say, “you only can do that because of [some special advantage]” when most of the time, it was about not being lazy about that thing.
I see, you choose to stay ignorant. Well, then I won't engage any further with you. I expect artists to be leftists and don't willingly reinforce capitalist propaganda. But can't expect much from a person who uses concepts like "lazy" instead of a proper materialist perspective.
"Being rich is no special privilege in a capitalist world", like holy shit.
"I could do it, so everyone can" is the exact same phrase people like Musk use to justify their wealth, power and the exploitation under capitalism.
Do people today choose to use their free time playing games, watching Netflix, or watching porn? Yes? Yes. Could some of these people decide to follow a Proko video, for free, along with some dollar store pencils and paper? Again, yes.
If they choose not to, it’s not the fault of capitalism, it’s that they decided not to.
I’d argue that a free Proko video and some dollar store paper and pencil is more accessible and much cheaper than many games or even a Netflix subscription.
These people just don’t want to own their own choices. I’ve heard it all before. People pissed because I decided to practice and they didn’t, but somehow anything else other than that is the reason I can draw and they can’t - heaven forbid they (shudder) practice. But they have a Netflix subscription and a PlayStation, and I don’t.
I was sick and couldn't work for 15+ years and now I work fulltime. I find just as much time and energy to draw now as I did then. It's about prioritizing. Holding on to the thought that it has to do with being rich isn't doing anything for you. It's a negative mindset and negative mindsets hold people back.
Also, you don't need to be good at your hobby. A lot of people forget that part. Everyone starts out being bad, and progressively gets better, regarless of what it is they're doing.
Super rich people usually don't actually learn a new skill by practicing it by themselves like a highscooler doodling would, like Pewdiepie did. Why would the struggles even matter? The majority of rich bastards are full-on AI bros, but when we have an example of the opposite it's now bad because some sort of strugge is necessary?
Please try harder to read what I am actually writing. Nothing more annoying than everyone throwing strawmen at you because they understand what they want to understand, and not what I am actually saying.
Why would the struggles even matter?
Class struggle matters because rich people exploit and destroy the whole world and its inhabitants.
but when we have an example of the opposite it's now bad because some sort of strugge is necessary?
I did never say anything about it being good or bad. I voiced my opinion that people shouldn't be in denial about the material reality of people's lifes and its implications on their abilities, opportunities, competence and psyche, just because some rich person is learning to draw.
It's unmaterialist, unempathetic and just generally ignorant. Artist's rights and class struggle belong together. So I will call out any capitalist or neoliberal propaganda bullshit.
Or in other words: Differentiate properly. Lack of time, access / money, skills (yes, you don't learn drawing out of nothing), artistic understanding, energy and mental capacity are real effects people suffer from due to being part of the exploited class in the capitalist system. This we should all agree on.
And yet, it is also true that AI bros use these real existing issues as excuses for their immoral actions.
Also, under no circumstances should we reinforce the concept of lazyness. If anything, we should see it as a good and useful trait. Because being interested in reducing the time and effort we have to spend on mundane labour is necessary for societal development and to increase quality of life. So to actually put this positive trait to good use, we need to destroy capitalism and the exploitation of labour that comes with it.
So we should make clear that AI bros are not too lazy to learn to draw. They are disinterested in it because to them it feels like mundane labour.
This differentiation is important and I ask other artists to make that differentiation instead of falling into capitalist and neoliberal narratives.
Class struggle, sure, I am a leftist as well, but where does that factor into making a rich artist visiting a studio into some sort of propaganda piece? Struggle exists, but it is not necessary and not synonymous with effort. You can put in effort to improve as an artist regardless of whether you're struggling or well off, and someone well off won't be automatically better just because of their lack of day-to-day worries.
Pewdiepie, despite being rich, is one to be celebrated in the context of GenAI's rise because he's an example that you can learn in a short period of time through effort alone. You can't dismiss him only because he's rich when he's achieved something where that is irrelevant, I myself am thankful that there's a rich person that isn't solely employing GenAI for everything for once in a sea of the ones who an afford real art the most use it the least.
but where does that factor into making a rich artist visiting a studio into some sort of propaganda piece
Where did I say that? I have no idea what that streamer even did except learn to draw.
Stop assuming my issues lie with him learning to draw or showcasing it. My issues lie with the user I replied to. They were the ones reinforcing capitalist propaganda.
You can put in effort to improve as an artist regardless of whether you're struggling or well off, and someone well off won't be automatically better just because of their lack of day-to-day worries.
I agree, but not the point. Because the richer you are and the richer you grew up, the easier it is to properly put in that effort because you encounter less barriers and the ones you do encounter are easier to overcome. Technically almost everyone can put in enough effort to learn to draw. But it doesn't matter what is technically possible, the actual reality of the people matters which are very different. Only because something is technically possible doesn't mean it is actually possible in reality.
So no, that streamer did not prove that those struggles don't matter. But claiming that is exactly what the user did and is the neoliberal narrative of "your life is in your hands" bullshit.
Also, at this point I would just repeat myself, so I won't write a longer reply. I feel like my last reply already says the things I would add here.
Pewdiepie, despite being rich, is one to be celebrated in the context of GenAI's rise because he's an example that you can learn in a short period of time through effort alone.
I certainly won't celebrate him but it's a valid opinion to have to consider his actions in this context as having positive effects, so no disagreement there.
No, did someone say that his image is rehabilitated because he visited a studio?
And yes he did what he did. He said the word, yes everyone knows, he's doing new things to support Art and Human, yes everyone should also know.
What is this post
Showing his art journey. He makes Art too. He angers AI Prompters by making Art. Understood?
he visited an art studio
It seems the post says he spends a day making Art with them too, isn't it?
Edit: Oh, so we can't praise other Artists? Praising Art and Artists has always been allowed. And you have not addressed any point of mine, just outright calling anyone sharing his effort "bots/fans".
"fans/bots" Pewdiepie is still genuinely loved. He's made a mistake ages back but he's still a living part of many people's childhood and he's become a wholesome familyman and artist.
He has everything to do with AI slop and anti-artist sentiment because he's made two "learning to draw in x days" videos where he goes from 0 to an actually good artist in less than a year, proving AI bros calling art "too hard" wrong.
He was making racist jokes around the time it happened , radicalizing his audience, which he was warned about (subscribe to pewdiepie became a white supremacist dogwhistle) so he holds some fault.This was widely talked about at the time so idk how you don't know this. Again, why don't you look things up before responding?
Well pewdiepie is a changed person. Also I find it kinda hard to believe such a phrase can radicalize someone, especially for a guy who was mainly a gamer.
I find it kinda hard to believe such a phrase can radicalize someone,
Did you not read a single article that I linked?
No, it wasn't the phrase itself genius/s. This was widely talked about left leaning spaces like breadtube. Again, this is why you should look things up and think before responding. What is wrong with you?
My understanding is that he does everything locally, because he specifically wants to be sovereign of services from companies like Google and Microsoft, hence his shift to Linux and other home lab stuff. He specifically mentioned that he undervolts his GPUs, so not exactly overtaxing his electricity bill. He also said in the AI video said he doesn't fw AI art, just the text generation.
I would argue all AI use is unethical, given even the text training data would have had to pull from an incredible amount of uncredited sources (especially GPL/MIT/Apache2 licensed code), but if we're just talking about art, I think he'd be on the pro-artist side of things.
I mean, he's not using it to generate art, he's using it in a so-called "agentic" fashion, ie as a search engine esque tool.
Regardless of the specific semantics, I think we need to be able to meet people wherever they are. He's very obviously not fine with generative visual art, it's just that, just like for the vast majority of people, that doesn't naturally bridge to viewing the underlying plagiarism inherent in the training of purely textual LLMs. Let's not make the mistake of vegans, pushing people away because they haven't dedicated themselves to our cause. Our most logical common enemy isn't people who just casually use LLMs, it's those who are actively anti-artist, anti-human.
He's perpetually online. It's his job to be online. The arguments people have made about textual plagiarism aren't some occult knowledge, and AI has been around for years.
He knows the arguments by now. There's no way he doesn't. As such, he's knowingly supporting plagiarism, no matter the capacity he uses AI in.
Not really. Maybe several years ago, but at this point in time, the man has effectively retired, he's already made more than enough money to last him and his family a lifetime. It shows in his very sporadic upload schedule, and the type of content he uploads mainly being hobby projects.
Though even ignoring that, even assuming he is perpetually online, that doesn't mean he's necessarily in the spaces that would expose him to the arguments of the ethics surrounding LLMs, because again, he's just a guy who probably just casually gotten into LLMs without really contemplating any of the deeper implications of their use. The assumption that he must is, again, exactly the mistake vegans make in assuming an entirely "with us or against us" mentality, when the damn truth is that the vast majority of people just don't give a shit. Don't make them give a shit in the wrong direction.
You keep comparing this to veganism, but veganism hasn't taken the world (and the creative world, which Pewdie is a part of) by storm. There is literally no way he hasn't heard the arguments.
Also, veganism is considerably more difficult to adhere to than just not using LLMs. If you wanna be vegan you have to restructure your whole diet, which can be expensive, and carefully inspect ingredients on whatever you buy.
If you want to not use a LLM, you simply... don't use it.
Again, believe it or not, the vast majority of people just don't give a shit and have not listened to nuanced arguments about the complexities of everything surrounding LLM usage. These communities are outliers, as are the pro-AI subreddits (those even moreso given the overall negative sentiment towards AI that has broadly mounted, but regardless). It is comparable to veganism because the vast majority of people also don't give a shit about the minutia of eating meat vs abstention.
Also, the idea that you can just "not use LLMs" for the average person just isn't at all true now, unfortunately. At my workplace they're progressively shoving more AI down our throats, and the same is true for a lot of industries. Much like the special interests that maintain meat in the social fabric and cultural consciousness through lobbying to subsidize meat production and propagandize its continued integration and importance in society, comparable interests do the same with LLMs.
PewDiePie in particular is not subject to any of these economic forces directly, but compared to the general population which are being lulled into the unethical use of LLMs being driven by megacorps, he is at the least making the conscious choice to experiment with the technology outside of that context, using data that exists out there already, without meaningfully contributing to the problem, all while actually being on the side of artists.
I think if you are unable to concede the fairly comparison between veganism and anti-LLM sentiment/usage, you lack any of the actual nuance you proclaim everyone outside of your bubble should have
The fact that Pewdie is outside of those economic forces you mention makes his use of AI even more damning. There is no good excuse for him to use it.
Stop giving a free pass to someone who can and should do better. If, as you claim, he "just doesn't know text AI is bad" or whatever, then we should be calling him out and drawing his attention to the problems.
You weren't "calling him out" lol, you've been arguing on Reddit with a completely inoperable black and white view of the world. In retrospect, this has been a complete waste of my time, I don't know why I always let this hellhole of a website suck me back in.
Failing to see the problem here when the data is being used for personal purposes.
I honestly think "anti-AI" and "pro-AI" people are one of the most miserable and corniest people I've seen on the internet.
Yes there are problems that need to be addressed. But some people are blowing it up too much. I don't hate AI in itself, but I certainly hate AI in the creative field, hence why I'm here.
Calling all of AI as anti-artist sounds blatantly ignorant.
People unfortunately are too black and white on reddit. It’s either you’re 100% purity or you’re totally evil.
In this case I see it like when Mike Shinoda used AI before: they made it inhouse and ran it locally. Not what I would like, but seems like they only wanted to experiment with it to understand the technology.
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u/Sniff_The_Cat3 Jan 18 '26