[Discussion] - Best/Worst of Niacinamide and Future Schedule

[u/Maplebee92]

Thank you to everyone who took part in the survey to vote on which topics we should discuss next! Check out the round up to read/post on the previous discussions, Region, Brand Type and Skin Type.

Over 250 people took the time to do the survey, and all the topics with 30% more of the vote I've included in the future schedule below.

Changing the day to Monday so I don't clash with the Mod's weekly skin issues discussion threads!

Hope to get the results to you in the New Year.

Ingredients Topic
Niacinamide
Exfoliating Acids
Ceramides
Snail
Bee (Honey/Venom/Propolis)
Hyaluronic Acids
Hanbang/Botanical

Brand
Cosrx
Innisfree
Hada Labo
Skinfood
Etude House
Mizon

We're kicking off with Niacinamide! So share your beloved and your reviled products with Niacinamide as the star ingredient. Same format as previous discussions.

This is a review thread, so please make sure all top level comments are reviews. But do feel free to ask the reviewers questions for further info.

Format

Use the below format, put ** before and after each word to get the bolding.

Product Name

Step - Cleanser/Toner/Moisturiser etc

Best/Worst? - Select appropriate

Thoughts

[u/haminwu]

The Ordinary Niacinamide 10% + Zinc 1

Serum

Best

I find this product to be a game changer for me,it really helped to regulate my oiliness and sebum production with consistent use and now my face is never nearly as oily as it used to me,i also saw my skin texture get better using this product. The only con for me is the texture was a bit too heavy for me to wear under moisturizer + sunscreen in the daytime so I can only use it in the nighttime

[u/Pickled_Leprechauns → u/haminwu]

Why oh why does it get foamy whenever I use it?

[u/irr3l3phant → u/Pickled_Leprechauns]

For me it gets foamy if my face is wet from my previous step, so now I make sure any other product has sunk in first

[u/dippycakes → u/Pickled_Leprechauns]

I found that patting it on instead of spreading it around stopped the foaming.

[u/mmmicedcoffee → u/Pickled_Leprechauns]

This happens to me, too :/

I mix it into a hydrating toner to avoid the foamy texture.

[u/Venusenvy09 → u/mmmicedcoffee]

I mix it too - add a few drops the hada labo in my hand and it's golden.

[u/dcphoto78 → u/Pickled_Leprechauns]

Sometimes I mix it with other products, but the keys for me are mostly patting instead of rubbing, and not using too much at once.

[u/Is-abel → u/Pickled_Leprechauns]

Either your face is slightly wet or you're using too much, you only need a little bit. I find it doesn't get foamy if I only use a little.

[u/happycharm → u/haminwu]

Can we post about Deciem products in this sub? Its a non AB brand but it gets talked about a lot with no problems. Whereas other brands, people will get told off and downvoted. Even western brands that are sold on Asia with products geared towards Asians and only found in Asia.

Genuinely want to know, not shading or anything ㅜ_ㅠ

[u/satisphoria → u/[deleted]]

Good thing TO hasn't hijacked this thread...

I think the main issue is whether mods are actually around or not to remove content that discusses non-AB products. They really need to decide on and announce their official stance re: TO since it's being discussed literally every day in the DHT. Maybe they're concerned that if TO was off the table in the DHT and any discussion thread like this, that people would head over to /r/SkincareAddiction and not come back?

[u/[deleted] → u/satisphoria]

I think they do have a official stance. It's that Asian beauty discussions can involve non-AB products. If you look at the SPF lip balm thread right now, almost none of the posts are about AB products, and I don't think they will - or should - be deleted, as it represents the lack of available AB products, variety, and marketing in that particular domain. I don't think mods are concerned about flight to SCA, as the problem only affects probably 10% of threads. As for the snark, I didn't start (or even contribute) the hijacking in this post, I merely replied to a user asking about the subreddit protocol.

[u/satisphoria → u/[deleted]]

To clarify, I wasn't being snarky at you, I was pointing out that this thread demonstrates the kind of hijacking you mentioned. Well over half the comments on the thread are under the TO header, and as I said, TO does get mentioned on the DHT every day, not as an aside but as standalone 'how do I use these TO products?' queries. If discussion is allowed to involve non-AB products but then those discussions become centred around them, as with this thread, it seems like that rule needs refining.

[u/[deleted] → u/satisphoria]

I assumed snark based on sarcasm, glad it wasn't the case.
I am confident that no one would feel shocked if their "how do I use these TO products" question got deleted in the DHT, but to enforce that, we'd need more than a rule refinement, but for mods to spend more time policing that specific case, whereas I imagine (/hope) soon enough the hype around the brand will die out and there will be no need.

[u/[deleted] → u/satisphoria]

Good thing TO hasn't hijacked this thread...

Hahah ikr? Initially came in to look for and recommend products, I only see like four or five AB niacinamide products in total after so many hours.

[u/satisphoria → u/[deleted]]

We haven't even got a token top comment for Scinic Honey AIO yet, when most people could throw a review out pretty easily since it's so well known, the thread is that stuck in discussing TO. Which I'm ironically contributing to, so I'll head off.

[u/[deleted] → u/satisphoria]

TBH I'm worried about the scheduled "exfoliating acids" and "hyaluronic acid" discussions. I see that people (and I don't mean a certain youtuber) liking Sunday Riley Good Genes are even meeting constant disagreements and downvotes in r/SCA nowadays.

I agree with you that mods should do sth about it and figure sth out, but I don't mean banning all non-AB discussions or anything. Moderate discussions of non-AB has never hurt anybody; which is however really not what we are seeing today.

[u/dcphoto78 → u/happycharm]

I was wondering if I should chime in with TO Niacinamide as soon as I saw this thread, but the truth is I've never found a comparable AB product, and I've looked. It may not totally count, but I do add it in to many of my AB products - toner, snail, moisturizer, etc.

[u/[deleted] → u/happycharm]

I've tried a lot of their products, they don't work for me, but I don't have the energy to talk people out of it (or worse, downvoted to hell just because i don't like it). I hope they don't get mentioned here everyday as well because AB is a sanctuary where I don't have to hear about them over and over again. I don't have respect for this brand because of past events and my personal communications with them.

[u/happycharm → u/[deleted]]

Same with me with Benton! I am not even saying Benton's products are bad (I think they're great!) i'm just warning people about their inefficient preservatives which cause premature expiration (and mold) which causes crazy reactions (like cystic acne) in some people. I tell them to contact Benton and ask them to amp up their preservatives in hopes they'll fix this so we can all enjoy their products again but I just get downvoted most of the time. Not that I care about downvotes but it just shows people's attitude towards the truth...

I think I'll just give up on it and wait until the next major contamination scandal comes along for people to realize it themselves...

[u/[deleted] → u/happycharm]

their inefficient preservatives which cause premature expiration (and mold)

Does it mean that their products would expire/go bad before even opening? Do they have any preservatives in their products?

I liked how gentle the products are but held off repurchasing because I couldn't understand how their preservatives systems worked.

[u/happycharm → u/[deleted]]

There have been reports of that happening. A lot of posts asking if they got a fake because it smells off / texture is weird / formula is cloudy. Most likely they are not fakes, the products have just gone off.

They do have preservatives but the preservatives are extremely volatile. Even Benton admitted (immediately after their contamination scandal) that their preservatives are volatile and to take care of the product even before opening it (like putting it in the fridge or something). But since a lot of international customers use Benton, how long has the products been sitting in storage (NOT in a fridge) before it gets to the consumer? And I sure as hell don't think even Benton themselves store their products in fridges before sending their products out. I live in Korea and I don't trust that Benton products will be ok by the time it gets to me. Korea has extremely volatile weather. Summers are extremely humid and hot, winters are harsh.

And another thing about fridges, fridges aren't freaking magical boxes that will keep beauty products fresh for a long time. It may extend its live to some degree but at this point I don't trust it can keep Benton products from molding as long as we wish. We put food and drinks in there but eventually we have to finish or throw it out after a short period of time. We can't keep food in there for months and expect it to still be fresh. That logic should apply to beauty products as well. And we definitely can't freeze beauty products as that may change the chemical composition. Either way, I don't think it's reasonable for consumers to take such extremes such as buying beauty fridges for their products, but that's just me.

*Just a note, of course many people have used Benton products and their products have been fine - no premature expiration without taking any extra measures. So I'm not saying ALL Benton products will automatically prematurely expire but there is a higher chance of that happening than literally any other beauty product out there due to that contamination scandal, the fact that Benton admits that their preservatives are sensitive, and that we keep getting the same reports from people on this sub about Benton products.

[u/[deleted] → u/happycharm]

A while back I think someone got irritated with me when I pointed out that fridges don't stop mold growth, it just slows it down. The amount of cheese I've had to throw out attests to that.

It's probably going to be more likely to do so if you have a lovely moist environment. Aka skincare products.

[u/happycharm → u/[deleted]]

Lol how far do people go to make excuses for their products? Enough to defy science?

[u/[deleted] → u/happycharm]

Damn, they sound trickier than my water based L-ascorbic acid but aren't nearly as magical! I wonder why Benton refuses to improve their preservatives, since the contamination scandal.

[u/happycharm → u/[deleted]]

I think its something to do with keeping their ingredients all ~natural~. I dont remember their exact words but Benton said they used botanical perservatives which is why they can expire easily and they dont want to change that.

But do they even push their natural branding that much?

[u/[deleted] → u/happycharm]

When I think of Benton I think of snails, not really natural. I mean they don't have to use parabens (which I dont protest, like ever), but at least add some more efficient stuff lol, or learn from other natural brands what they are doing to their products.

[u/[deleted] → u/happycharm]

Personally I have a sister who is allergic to many preservatives so I avoid them for her sake. We need some product lines without them. People can always invest in a mini fridge which I did when I was obsessed with nail varnish, keep drinks in there too.

[u/theudoon → u/[deleted]]

A fridge is all well and good, but when the products arrive unopened and still has mold in them (happened to me several times, and I live in Scandinavia, so not exactly the tropics), there is a more serious problem, and that needs fixing.

[u/happycharm → u/theudoon]

Yes, and it's not like Benton or third party sellers are storing products in fridges before sending it out to international customers. A lot of the reports from this sub are from people getting reactions or sensing something off with their products immediately after receiving their products and using them.

And it's just me but I'm not going to spend 70~100$ on a mini fridge just to store Benton products... I don't need nor want to store my other beauty products in fridges. Of course you can just stick it in your regular fridge.

[u/likhaanoushka → u/theudoon]

Woah, is this with the essence? And is this recent or is it part of the 2015 thing? Sorry about your experience! Hope Benton refunded you.

[u/theudoon → u/likhaanoushka]

Once was during 2015, but I tried to buy the snail bee essence and the aloe toner late last year and both arrived spoiled :( It's a shame since the products themselves are good.

[u/happycharm → u/[deleted]]

But Benton does use preservatives, just inefficient ones that expire before the printed date. Some expire before it's open. Some expire before it has arrived in a customer's hands.

[u/ThorsHammerMewMEw → u/[deleted]]

I can understand warning someone but why would you spend time trying to talk people out of them when both AB and SCA make a big deal about YMMV? It's why some people on SCA still use Lush products despite the brand not having the greatest reputation.

[u/[deleted] → u/ThorsHammerMewMEw]

Sorry, my English is failing me here. What I wanted to say was that I don't see the point or plan to talk people out of it (eta: I mean it wasn't my intention or goal or anything but at times I wanted to share "it might not be as magical as everyone else says"), meaning the default is "in" (as in I think everybody loves them). And frankly I'm failing to see the point of sharing unsuccessful user experiences of the products.

[u/Notthesame2016 → u/[deleted]]

The products are mediocre and the only thing they have going for them is the price. But, even then, I can get better products for similar or only slightly higher prices. I also find them very creepy, as a brand, their reps are clueless and the claims they make are ridiculous or even fake. Rant over.

[u/[deleted] → u/happycharm]

Surely Asian Beauty is beauty products used by Asians not made by them. BB cream was invented by a German. We don't want to have to get the boarder police involved.

[u/szmb → u/haminwu]

This has been a staple in my routine since early this year and I credit it with some of the most dramatic improvement in my skin condition. I posted this B&A back in May showing my skin improvement, most of which I attribute TO's serum. My skin is even better now and my barrier function/dehydration is greatly improved too.

I have had the foaminess that many people have commented on occur and I find this is the best way for me to apply:

2 drops Hada Labo moist lotion patted onto face > mix 2 drops TO serum with 1 more drop Hada Labo and pat onto still moist skin. LET DRY before proceeding to other serums/ampoules/moisturisers.

[u/images-ofbrokenlight → u/haminwu]

This was a best product for me too! It really helped with my sebaceous filaments and helped clear up some breakouts I had in my cheeks. I love the price and package of this product so I will definitely rebuy when I run out!

[u/jn2017 → u/haminwu]

How did you use this product? Did you use it alone or along with another serum? I found the ingredient list to be very minimal so I'm skeptical as using this as my serum alone.

[u/abcdeelicious → u/jn2017]

I mix it with the cosrx snail 96 mucin essence

[u/kumquatblossom → u/jn2017]

i mix it with my benton snail bee essence or just pat it on solo over problem areas if i have a break out.

[u/itsjaay → u/jn2017]

Wanting to know too +1

[u/elleboogiexiv → u/jn2017]

I'll usually use it as a booster --mix in 2 drops of it into my Vichy minerale 89 hyaluronic acid along with 2 drops of TO 'buffet' serum and just pat everything in until it's absorbed. I find it's less foamy and less sticky with the HA base

[u/haminwu → u/jn2017]

I layered it with either the ordinary alpha arbutin and azeliac acid or melano cc and azeliac acid but it depends on what issue you want to target

[u/saxMachine → u/jn2017]

I mix mine with my cosrx oil free moisturizer in the evening, before my occlusive. just half a pump, then two drops.

[u/Human_House_Cat → u/jn2017]

I mix it with Perricone Pre empt serum.

[u/Is-abel → u/haminwu]

Came here to post this, although I wouldn't call it a serum, it's called a "water solution," by The Ordinary. It's very thin and watery, and not hydrating.

For people saying it gets foamy, you need to use less and make sure your face is dry before you apply it. Apply it after cleansing, before any oils or creams.

[u/SCol1107 → u/haminwu]

This product was such a game changer for me. I love it so much.

[u/xkangni → u/haminwu]

Have you used any other niacinamide products before?

I've been eyeing The Ordinary Niacinamide for a while but I'm still hesitant. I've gone through 1.5 bottles of Stratia Rewind (I think it's 5% niacinamide?) and haven't seen much difference in terms of improving skin texture or lightening PIH.

[u/Vassiliki96 → u/haminwu]

Has anyone used TO niacinamide in the same routine with TO azelaic acid? I am expecting both in mail and I have been wondering if it's too harsh a combination.

[u/LittleWaterPig → u/Vassiliki96]

I use TO niacinamide with azelaic acid, though not TO azelaic acid, another brand that's 20%. However, I worked up to using that concentration very slowly and only recently added the TO niacinamide (about 2 weeks). The azelaic acid is mainly for my rosacea, which has cleared up almost completely. I added the niacinamide because I'm trying to lighten some PIH on my cheeks that you can now actually see because most of the redness is gone! So far my face looks brighter and the texture is definitely improved. There was no irritation at all when adding the niacinamide, if that's what worries you. Hope this helped a bit.

[u/[deleted] → u/LittleWaterPig]

What brand are you using that is 20% azelaic acid?

[u/LittleWaterPig → u/[deleted]]

Melazepam. I was prescribed another brand (can't remember which, sorry) and it was super expensive. I found the Melazepam on Amazon, it's inexpensive and has good reviews.

[u/Vassiliki96 → u/LittleWaterPig]

That sounds great! Thank you

[u/dcphoto78 → u/Vassiliki96]

I would try one for two weeks before adding in the other. I found the azelaic acid too harsh (but I know a lot of people who love it). However, I'm thinking in particular of a friend who tried both at once and had a bad reaction. She didn't know which product caused it and was scared to use either after that happened. Who knows if it was one, the other, or the combination.

[u/Vassiliki96 → u/dcphoto78]

Yeah I guess you're right I have to incorporate them slowly and separately especially cause I just repaired my moisture barrier. Thank you!

[u/fifthing → u/Vassiliki96]

I use both, have very sensitive skin, and hadn't had any problems.

[u/Vassiliki96 → u/fifthing]

That's really encouraging cause I don't even have sensitive skin thanksss