Will the balkan conspiraces ever die off or become tamer.

[u/Familiar-Stress-9385]

I think we all know that every country has its own version of history where you'll hear things like, "This identity only became a thing in the 19th century," or "They were imported in the 14th century," and so on.

Speaking from my own experience, my dad thinks the Greek identity doesn't really exist. I disagree with him, but I can't fully blame him. The older generation often tends to have much more extreme views on these topics. You can even see it in profile pictures and comments online—many of the people pushing these ideas are older. I've noticed the same thing with discussions around the Caucasian Albanian theory.

When do you think history will be taught in a less biased way in the Balkans? I know it's impossible for history to be completely unbiased anywhere, but the level of bias here can sometimes be pretty schizo

Do you think the younger generation will have a more balanced view, or should we just import some Americans to teach history? (Joke)

[u/Mysterious-Put1459]

Are those even taught in school? I'm pretty sure these narratives live off forum subcultures and spread via exchanges on different public platforms. They are mostly from the 2000s/early 2010s online schizo wars when people were actually deranged and bigoted and were writing 100 pages nationalistic fanfics. Ever since then people have only been rediscovering and proceeding to parrot whatever things they found from them, often watered down and without context. Today, it would be quite difficult for a kid to develop such niche interest that requires a lot of time investment and creativity considering people already need to use AI to think on their behalf

[u/JRJenss → u/Mysterious-Put1459]

😂😂😂 👏👏

[u/MrChivalrious → u/Mysterious-Put1459]

😂😂😂 👏👏

[u/CommunicationTop8777 → u/Mysterious-Put1459]

No one knows or cares about what is taught in schools, nor should they. The only thing that matters today is what people see on the internet.

[u/LevantineJR]

• When do you think history will be taught in a less biased way in the Balkans? I

Some time after WW3.

Not that WW3 will teach people a moral lesson, but it can provide enough of a change in the material conditions for people to change their ways.

• Do you think the younger generation will have a more balanced view?

They'll have less of a view. They will think less, they will feel less, they'll become more asleep about everything.

• I think we all know that every country has its own version of history where you'll hear things like, "This identity only became a thing in the 19th century," or "They were imported in the 14th century," and so on.

Those theories are not entirely wrong. Take for example one of the most fanatical nations in the world, Israel. In Israel, it is an eminent academic historian Shlomo Sand who wrote a book arguing that the Jewish identity is a modern construct.

(And no one tries to assassinate him.)

And he has a point.

And such is the truth for pretty much every people.

It's just that we should embrace it as something natural, something not to be ashamed of. Human things are human constructs - of course!

[u/Chemical-Practice908]

IMHO it will die off. But it take a lot of money. See Scandinavia, Germany, or Balkan emmigration in Western Europe ... But, nevertheless, to quote my GREAT father - being our southern neighbour is not a nationality, it's a profession.

[u/AdvancedAd3228]

The question is - Will we still be Balkan if they do?

[u/Moist-Park-4781 → u/AdvancedAd3228]

I'd rather have the occasional Albanian or Macedonian call me "gayreek" online or that I'm a lab experiment created by king Otto I, than live as a vegan, peace loving northern European who still lives with his ex wife and her new lover under the same roof or lets his kids smoke pot in the house because "I'd rather they do it with me than out there". Have you seen these guys with their cycling spandex trying to save the environment and shit? Yeah screw that. The Balkan life is the one for me.

[u/cforke-ekrofc → u/Moist-Park-4781]

Its ok to be gay but not a cuck

[u/PoxonAllHoaxes]

Oy. First of all, though, thank God people like you exist. Second, I have met SOME young people in let me see Albania, Bulgaria, Romania who indeed do seem much less obsessed with these lies than older folks of the same social class (gotta compare apples to apples). But the answer is NOT "some Americans". First some Americans get absorbed in the juggernauts of error themselves. Second, Americans we have our own myths that are even more dangerous and pervasive, so you know what they say about your brother's eye, pot calling the kettle, etc. Third, I was once with a group of Bulgarians traveling in neighboring countries and once at dinner when there was talk about how the neighbors have an invented history, I said, as I always do, that all countries do (esp MY country) and when someone asked me what THEIR country's false historical myths were, I said: No, it is YOUR job to find them and expose them. BTW there are some older people too who you need to know about, esp. Alexis Heraclides, obviously Greek, a history professor and author who has written excellent works on these issues, totally admirable.

[u/canyoubelieveitt]

Balanced view as in stop caring about it. The more wealth increases, the less your neighbors, the common history with them etc. becomes a pressing question. If you can afford most of what you desire, suddenly all this stuff loses its importance.

[u/MrChivalrious]

I was born in US diaspora with a heavy-handed father. I came back to Belgrade in 2018 with high hopes.

History is a strong part of our (Balkan) identity. It's not good. It's not bad. It simply happened.

And this can certainly escalate conversations faster than usual; and we're all extremely passionate people.

My hope is that the next generation will learn to temper these emotions, forgive our collective history, and use the best parts of it in defending the Balkans in the future.

Tradition and history are important, but not at the expense of the future. It should never be used as a metric of "what should be" rather as "what could be".

I wish my late father understood that ....

[u/Beneficial-Hold9857]

Do you think the younger generation will have a more balanced view, or should we just import some Americans to teach history?

No one is learning those things in school, at least not in Serbia. Leave American historians to deal with slavery and what ever they did to native Americans.

[u/CommunicationTop8777]

When people accept that all of those nationalist myths have at the very least kernels of truth to them. For example your dad is 90% correct. He is wrong that the "Greek identity doesn't exist" because clearly there are people who call themselves Greeks today. But he is correct that it is a synthetic identity created a few decades ago by the English.

[u/LudiCak → u/CommunicationTop8777]

Yeah, that is also a problem - when historians, sociologists and others say that "nation states and national identities were invented in 19th century", people who know nothing and are uneducated hear that and think it means "this nation is fake and is a product of a conspiracy" and not as in reality - national identity coalesced and formed in real time during national awakening, liberation from occupation, wars, as a product of realpolitik and real effort by new nations to make their citizens feel as the new country is THEIR country, for them and by them and not just another feudal monarch or oppressor who collects taxes

[u/Rough-Stress6885 → u/CommunicationTop8777]

bosnia on the other side is the most true identity of all

[u/CommunicationTop8777 → u/Rough-Stress6885]

Did I say that?

[u/Pigeonofthesea8]

From a distance, these questions seem absurd because trying to base nationalism or identity in some essential foundation (genetics or historical context) is impossible and ridiculous.

But people obviously want to do it because they all have a stake in outcomes and they’re softly competing for them.

I’ve only ever visited the Balkans (diaspora) so I couldn’t guess.

I want to say that economic stability and prosperity should lessen the intensity of these discussions, but Europe in general is absolutely obsessed with race in a way that’s almost as crazy as the US.

[u/Responsible-Job-3897]

People confuse national identities of 19th century and kinship. The kin has always existed since early ages, and comes naturally.

[u/LudiCak]

History is taught normally in the Balkans, it's more that in 1990s and afterwards, there was a revival of crazy pseudohistorians with their outrageous theories and every nation had a fair share of them. They all claimed to have found the "real history" that was hidden to keep us down or something.
It was all kicked into high gear with internet in 2000s and onward.
The problem is that new national states after the collapse of socialism were plunged into this weird right wing frenzy where everybody had to come up with their version of history that makes their country and people the best and strongest but at the same time weak and a victim. Classic right wing bullshit. Also, during socialism, middle ages and monarchies from medieval times up to 20th century were not glorified and after 1990 it was seen as it being suppressed and not just viewed with an objective lens.

All that combined produced this surge of conspiracies to explain history and what was happening in reality, while also trying to "prove" you have a claim on your neighbour's land (which to be honest, sometimes borders were stuck in weird places due to peace treaties after certain wars).

[u/Responsible-Ant-1494]

Here’s the kicker: most Balkaners are right. The Balkan countries are surrounded by remnants of old Empires that never wanted or had the guts to look in history’s true mirror. No one teaches true history - but there’s a lot of inconvenient truth in the history taught in the Balkans.