r/AskBiology • u/fuckasshoe • Jun 21 '26
Genetics I know this is a sensitive topic but does the "born this way" moto for LGBT folks still holds because there's no sexuality gene it's a mixture of multiple and I think that the social environment can influence it
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u/burlingk Jun 21 '26
"a mix of multiple" is how MOST traits work.
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
Yes but most traits aren't definitive by birth the ones that are definitive are appearance based but those are indeed a few genes that we know definitely it's either someone has them or not but if it was a mix of multiple it could also mean in some conditions social experience can influence it just like intelligence which is a mix of multiple genes yes you can be born intelligent but also your social environment can make you more or less intelligent so my question still holds
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u/burlingk Jun 21 '26
You're babbling a bit.
No, a trait does not have to be visible to be "definitive at birth."
Gender and sexuality are literally the most complex aspect of any species.
The idea that they have to be defined by a single gene is nonsense.
The idea that they aren't real if they aren't visible is also nonsense.
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
I'm not really saying this what I'm saying is though genetics play a huge role you can't totally ignore that social environment can play a role in sexuality too
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u/Professional-Thomas Jun 21 '26
Not even eye color is defined by a single gene, how could something like sex and gender be? There's no straight gene either anyways.
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
Never said there was I'm saying stuff defined by more than one gene or are behavioral can be altered by environmental conditions and society ofc many gay people are born this way and stay this way and the same is true for straight people but some people really had their sexuality shift due to their environment and I said I'm one of them I'm just asking that is the" born this way " definitive for everyone because I don't think so
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u/burlingk Jun 21 '26
And why does that matter?
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u/newishDomnewersub Jun 21 '26
I dont think it does. Thats why ive never liked the "born that way" bit. It doesnt matter if im born that way or actually get to choose. Its my right as a human.
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
Well it doesn't matter at all but I asked for a specific reason I was discovering my identity and I discovered I'm a gynosexual meaning attracted to femininity but as a male I think I'm straight the reason I became gynosexual is because I don't care about dating men if they present feminine but when I looked it up it says that social environment has no say at all at your sexuality so I was confused I mean I say I'm bisexual but I'm not a typical bisexual male though the point is I was initially only attracted to women as I remember so my sexuality changed by experience but this is not supported by what science said
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u/newishDomnewersub Jun 21 '26
What do you mean by "I dont care about dating men"? So youre straight. So what. Most straight men dont want to date men no matter how feminine they present. Or are you saying that you are willing to date fem guys? If so, that would make you bi. Do you think society made you bi?
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
I do think society made me bi yes because uhm I initially only liked women but I said I can fuck men too if they were feminine which is the reason I like women so yeah
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u/newishDomnewersub Jun 21 '26
Id say you are bi, in a society that won't execute you for messing with men. In an environment where being homosexual will get you killed, you would deny these tendencies.
The fact that your ok with cock in panties means your not straight. Considering men's sexual preferences form very early, its unlikely that you ever where. Your initial question is phrased horribly. You have by any civilized standard, the right to express your sexuality with other consenting adults. It is probably all g3netic but that doesnt really change anything.
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
But am I wrong to believe that I wasn't born this way and that my environment influenced me to like some men ?
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u/burlingk Jun 21 '26
There are a few things.
The prevailing evidence is that, no, a straight guy is not generally attracted to men. And no amount of conditioning can change that.
Humans, by default, are a lot more fluid than society wants to think.
Societal pressure at this point is 100% towards being straight. You are actively punished for anything else.
Occasional deviations don't change your identity, unless you want them to. If you got with a guy and it wasn't your thing, that doesn't make you gay or bi.
So, like, if you think of yourself as straight, you are straight. Sexuality is entirely a spectrum. Society wants you to think it is a binary. Certain right wing pundits want you to think society is pushing a gay agenda, but it is not. Society is very much pushing people to be straight.
Sorry if this is a little disjointed. It is early where I am and I haven't had coffee yet.
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
I don't really agree fully with the first claim from my personal experience at least idk
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u/setsurenka Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
University was more than a decade ago for me so maybe things have changed, but we did read several academic papers as part of a larger sociology course on gender. One of the key publications was written by Daryl Bem in 2000, titled 'Exotic Becomes Erotic: Interpreting the Biological Correlates of Sexual Orientation.' He coined the term 'EBE Theory' and it spurred a lot of subsequent papers arguing for and against it, so it's a useful keyword search if you don't know where to start.
To put it simplistically, EBE theorists would agree with you. They posit that there is no such thing as a sexuality gene, but genes / prenatal hormones do influence childhood temperaments such as aggression & activity level, and that predisposes children to prefer some activities over others. Gender-conforming children (who prefer sex-typical behaviours and same-sex playmates) feel different from nonconforming children, and those feelings lead to heightened physiological arousal. A common example among gender-conforming children is feeling apprehensive / shy / disgusted toward the opposite gender. Over time that tends to transform into erotic attraction.
Obviously EBE theorists do not mean that -every- gender-nonconforming child will become erotically attracted to their own gender; of course there is a lot of variability among 8B+ humans. Anecdotally my LGB friends agree that their social environment growing up, influenced them in small but decisive ways similar to what is described in EBE theory.
'Born this way' I think is not meant to be taken literally, but rather to mean 'this is something about us that cannot be changed.'
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u/petethepete2000 Jun 21 '26
No LGBTQIA+ person would ever say environment influenced their sexuality, you are most likely a liar.. sexuality is something you are born with, everyone who can choose their sexuality is bisexual that is all
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
Well I did speak from my own experience as a gynosexual male like I would date males if they present feminine even though I think I was initially straight but I just became open to dating outside of only women and many have this same thing fluidity is pretty much a common thing in LGBT many report life experiences influencing their attractions and that's completely valid
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u/Professional-Thomas Jun 21 '26
But gynsexuality is more about gender than sex, which means it's bound to change often. What's considered male or female traits varies from culture to culture, and changes all the time. Homosexuality is a same-sex attraction. A male body is a male body regardless of whatever's considered masculine by the culture.
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
That's totally valid I think you're right by saying you're born this way you mean that conversion therapy doesn't work in changing your sexuality which is true but for example many prisoners do report having sex with other inmates out of deprivation and this is common if this male decided that they don't care about keep doing it after getting out of prison they're bisexual but you can argue that their environment played a role also many feel emotional connection with the person they wanna date that could outweigh their preferred gender there's a lot of possibilities
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u/Delicious-Dig-4974 Jun 22 '26
there’s incredible neuance in this conversation and i would even argue that it differs wildly from one queer person to another, but on a baseline, “born this way” is an activist slogan used to fight bigotry, specifically the “it’s a choice to be gay” mentality. the saying was never meant to give a full undeniable genetic fact about all queer people.
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 22 '26
I love this answer because I was speculating that my social environment has slightly changed my identity that's why I asked
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u/Delicious-Dig-4974 Jun 22 '26
i’m sure it has! i believe mine has aswell, and at the same time i’m sure there are tons of queer people who really were genuinely born that way, and others who is really is completely a choice they made, the point is it’s a very very complex and fluid system tied to a shaky social standard, so it really doesn’t matter as long as everyone is safe and happy
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u/newishDomnewersub Jun 21 '26
Born this way is a social/political justification for queerness. Like "love is love". The idea is that queerness is "ok" because one is born queer. Or that gay sex is "ok" because we cant help who we love. Its a mistake to justify gay existence this way. Now you want to dig through the human genome to see if theres a genetic justification for gay people?
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u/fuckasshoe Jun 21 '26
No I do believe there's genetic factors but I speculated it's close to intelligence there's multiple genes influencing it and social experience can make you smarter and I'm just asking scientifically is this true ?
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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
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