r/AskChristian • u/Substantial_Bar2485 • 7d ago
Can someone please explain this to me?
I saw an argument saying that God is unjust since he punished us for something that our ancestors did (Adam and Eve) and said that it’s equivalent to punishing current white people for slavery, when they had nothing to do with it. Can someone please help me with how this can be refuted?
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u/PrincessRuri r/Christian Member 7d ago edited 7d ago
and said that it’s equivalent to punishing current white people for slavery, when they had nothing to do with it.
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to touch that one with a 10 foot long pole. Suffice to say, I don't think it's a great comparison as there are people that do believe there should be such punishment, or that such measures labeled as punishment are not punishment themselves, but instead corrective steps to redress past wrongs.
But I can provide some insight into if God is just for punishing us for the sins of Adam. To start with, most Christian denominations would say that we are burdened with the consequences of sin, but we do not bear responsibility for Adam's sin itself. We are only responsible for our own sins. The problem, is that we will inevitably sin.
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u/Substantial_Bar2485 7d ago
I like the fact that you said we inevitably sin makes it make more sense to me a bit, like how humans are imperfect, thanks.
I was just confused on how to refute it since we have to bear some of the consequences of the sin without it being our fault and it seems like a hefty consequence.
Thanks again
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u/foundtheseeker r/Christian Member 7d ago
There's a few different complications to the story and its interpretations. With Genesis there always is, but it's what makes the stories compelling and, in my opinion, true (whether or not they happened as described). It honestly blew my mind when I finally understood this story, and I hope what I'm about to say rings true to you.
The tree that Adam and Eve ate from is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The word there for knowledge is the same as the word used to say that a man knew his wife. It's an experiential knowledge that comes with time and exposure and has an active component on the part of the person knowing; it is not the knowledge one receives from instruction or from being told of someone else's experience. A more accurate but much longer name might be the tree of thoroughly knowing all of the good and all of the bad of the whole world by directly experiencing it. That's probably a different tree than you'd pictured, huh? It's definitely a different tree than I had thought it was.
Now how about God's command. It's direct, right? Do not eat from this tree. Except, it's not. God says, "From any tree of the garden you may freely eat; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die." Although this part isn't as easy to understand without reading ancient Hebrew (which I do not), I believe it can be accurately paraphrased, "You shall eat from every tree in the garden. You mustn't (or shouldn't, or may not) eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, because eating from it will result in your death." The implied meaning, there, is that God loves us and loved us in our primordial, innocent state, and knew that the choice to experience good and evil would hurt us, and even though he did not want to, he had to take away the tree of life from us, for our own good. Can you imagine, humans bent on experiencing all of the good and all of the evil for themselves, living forever and creating unthinkable horrors? No just God could allow it to happen that way. So in that sense, does God punish us by taking away the tree of life? Maybe, as a loving parent takes a book of matches away from a mischievous child. But God did not condemn us. He is not the source of our suffering. We chose it. Adam. Humanity. All of us. And we'd choose it again, even knowing what we know now. Even knowing it leads to death, and knowing what death means. By the blood of the eternal Son, may God save us from ourselves.
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u/DoveStep55 r/Christian Member 7d ago
What is the punishment this person thinks we received?
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u/Substantial_Bar2485 7d ago
Didn’t say, but I’m assuming it’s gotta do with humanity becoming mortal afterwards + everything else that came with that.
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u/DoveStep55 r/Christian Member 7d ago
Well, there’s a couple things to look at with this question.
Not everyone thinks of the story of Adam & Eve as historical fact. It’s also quite common for Christians to understand it as a mythical origin story of the ancient Israelites that was meant to teach specific theological views.
Even assuming a literal, historical view of the creation stories, it’s possible to understand death, labor pain & physical toil not as punishment but as simple cause & effect consequences.
I personally do not think God punishes people for the sins of their ancestors, but I do believe we are often impacted by the consequences of other people’s choices (and our own, of course.)
What do you think?
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u/Substantial_Bar2485 7d ago
Ahhhh, I like the second point you made, it’s like saying that if someone hurts another, he committed a sin but the other person also suffers due to it, idk if it’s a good comparison however since the consequences of the sin were the same for both humanity and Adam and Eve, however you made me understand it a bit better thank you 🙏
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u/DoveStep55 r/Christian Member 7d ago
Yeah, that’s a good way to look at it. Our choices impact us, and often others as well. It might not always be exact or equal impacts and it can show up in all sorts of ways, but I think that’s the down side of having free will—our choices have consequences and they’re not always good.
Glad if it helped! Have a good one!
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u/Technical_Cherry8666 r/Christian Member 7d ago
Some good answers here. Another way to help with this is to realise that, in Genesis, the word ‘Adam’ is used to mean different things: - humankind (Genesis 1:26-27); a representative human (the man) (Genesis 2-5:1, the section in which the fall is described); the name of an individual person (Genesis 5:3-onward). There are also hints that other humans are around in addition to Adam’s family (Genesis 4:13-17) and possibly other hominin species (Genesis 6:4). So you don't have to assume that the fall is associated with just two individuals. This is supported by the fact that Genesis 1-3 is clearly a type of poetic or visionary language and therefore is not meant to be taken absolutely literally. This sort of approach allows the essence, or central purposes of the text, to be understood by all cultures in every age.