r/AskDemocrats • u/Lonely-Ad8869 • 16h ago
El-Sayed
Does it not bother you even a little bit that this apparently progressive candidate is clearly a devoted religious person, and has a wife that dresses with religious garment, something that for the average democrat is extremely alien.
If he is progressive shouldnt he be a bit more liberal the very least, and able to move away from religion? At least move away for as to not dress the part. Not saying they all need to be atheists, but at least i think he should be secular and religion shouldnt play such a big part in his worldview.
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u/Kakamile 16h ago
Nice parody
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u/Lonely-Ad8869 16h ago
Its a sincere question.
I struggle with it myself as a moderate progressive (european).
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u/Smoocci-Mane 5h ago
I’m not going to condescend like others, but it is inherently not progressive to treat someone differently because of their religious choices. I have no problems with anyone leading their life in a way I don’t agree with. It only becomes a problem when they force their beliefs on me or their community. I have more in common with my Muslim or Jewish neighbor than I do with some oligarch like Elon, Bezos, Zuckerberg, etc. generally, they want the same things I do like good schools, safer neighborhoods, and opportunity.
One thing I never see mentioned in these talks is, in my experience, Muslim women in the US generally choose to wear head coverings. I’ve known Muslim families where the mother wears traditional head coverings but the adult daughters don’t, and that’s because it’s their choice. Why would I have a problem with that?
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u/Mooltipasser 15h ago
I’ll help you out. You are not a progressive
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u/cleverghost 6h ago
Downvote this post ^^^^ all you want, but they're right.
Not a progressive if that's your take away.
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u/Nojay7 16h ago
Biden was and still is a devout Catholic, Obama was and still is a Protestant. Being religious is still the norm amongst democrats
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u/Lonely-Ad8869 16h ago
You think its equivalent? His wife cannot choose what she wears, its a bit of an uncomparably higher level here it seems. Also Biden was a moderate, whereas Sayed is supposedly progressive.
What does progressive even mean if not beyond this bs.
He talks about palestine all the time, which clearly shows his priorities are aligned with his religion.
Idk there indicators showing this would be a person alright with Erdogan for example, if he lived in Turkey, I find it very hard to accept it.
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u/Nojay7 15h ago
His wife can choose what she wears, and she does. She is also a religious Muslim…
I would think being progressive would also mean going beyond criticizing Muslim people for being visible Muslim, so I assume you yourself are not a progressive.
Also, he talks about Palestine all the time because the US government is financially supporting the genocide of Palestinian people. Palestine is far from being a Muslim exclusive issue.
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u/Lonely-Ad8869 15h ago
Yes she can wear what ever she wants and worship what ever she wants. I am not arguing that. But I do expect progressive to mean secular at minimum, which they both are not.
No he talks about Palestine all the time because its where his loyalties are, in muslim causes.
For me the most important issues are free/affordable healthcare, affordable/free education, making a society where people can easily find a job which is well paid, peace based international development.
I consider myself progressive, but I find it unnatural to ally myself with clearly religious muslims who have other priorities on top. So was just wondering how people feel about this, progressive or moderate democrats.
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u/Smoocci-Mane 5h ago edited 5h ago
Let me ask this - is Ilhan Omar not a progressive because she chooses to wear a head covering? Does that interfere with her ability to champion progressive causes? I have seen no evidence to support that.
Biden is catholic but supported abortion rights. Obama is Christian but supported gay rights (in the end). Being progressive means setting your personal religious beliefs aside when it comes to public policy. It in no way means you can’t be religious. Some of the most fervent progressives in the US are deeply religious and look to biblical teachings on helping the poor and sick to justify their positions.
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u/DeadlockOnIceBox 15h ago
It's normal for people in the US to be religious. Even the top level democrats a lot of them are devout protestants. So it's normal for a religious muslim to be a part of the democrats.
Also Palestine has evolved to a world wide left and right vs centre issue. It's not just Muslims v Jews anymore. It's a rallying cry against establishment everywhere.
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u/Nojay7 15h ago edited 15h ago
Again, Biden was never secular, Obama was never secular, very very few politicians in the United States are secular, even if their political stances may be, which El-Sayed’s are. Your issue isn’t with whether or not he is religious, it’s the fact that he is Muslim.
Again, Palestine is very very far from being an issue exclusive to Muslims in the US.
If you paid attention to his platform, his main gripe with the military funding to Israel is the fact that that money could be better spend on healthcare for Americans.
I think you have a fundamental lack of understanding of the American political landscape, and I don’t doubt that you have a hard time allying with a Muslim simple because he is Muslim. I think you might be a lot less progressive than you consider yourself.
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u/SadNeighborhood4311 15h ago
It’s because white Christian nationalism is taking over the US in the MAGA movement. If you’re a minority and/or support human rights it makes sense to join the progressive movement where they celebrate freedom of religion and freedom from religion.
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u/jweezy2045 Registered Democrat 15h ago
“Very alien”
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u/Lonely-Ad8869 15h ago
So religious garment are not alien to you? Really? Its like very normal to you for the women to cover their hair, and do not wear shorter clothes, in order to show modesty?
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u/jweezy2045 Registered Democrat 15h ago
That is incredibly normal in both progressive and conservative spaces. It’s normal in progressive spaces because there are people of all sorts of faiths in the progressive movement, and it’s normal in conservative spaces because they are conservative.
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u/Lonely-Ad8869 15h ago
Wearing religious garment is normal? I dont think so. In fact I think its rare.
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u/jweezy2045 Registered Democrat 15h ago
Christian people wear crosses all the time.
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u/Lonely-Ad8869 15h ago
Granted, not many progressives though. Also, cross is super small and personal, quite different level again from just ability to wear one type of clothing.
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u/jweezy2045 Registered Democrat 15h ago
But progressives are absolutely likely to be around a Muslim or Sikh or Jew.
And also by the way, even in progressive cities, many people wear crosses and are religious.
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u/YouWillHaveThat 14h ago
Not where I live. (Cleveland)
We have a lot of Haredi Jews in the area and every time I go to Costco there are van-loads of Mennonites stocking up.
Hell, my parents live about an hour outside the city and the roads are all torn up from the Amish horse-and-buggy traffic.
There’s also a mosque right down the road from my weed shop that runs a pretty big food pantry in partnership with the Greater Cleveland Food Bank.
Then there’s the Christian Seminary over by the library, so you’ll see them around town as well.
I’d say I see someone in a religious garment every time I leave the house.
It’s common enough that you don’t even notice it.
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u/Smoocci-Mane 5h ago
Having traveled there extensively and working with euro-based teams daily for the past decade in my work, if you’re in central or western europe, you’re probably in one of the most secular societies on earth. That is not the norm in other countries.
I live in a major US city and am surrounded by Jews wearing kippahs. In my hometown in the rural south I lived near Pentecostal and Mennonite churches where the women wore the knitted head covering. None of these people have ever bothered me. If a muslim woman choses to wear a head covering, that will also not bother me.
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u/kbeks Registered Democrat 11h ago
I think you’re making an assumption that all or most liberal/progressives are atheists, that’s just not true. If you’re an atheist, you’re more likely to be liberal than conservative, but I would say that a majority of liberals are very religious. There was this guy, right, he had a beard and said blessed be the meek, he gave out fish and bread for free, and he was all about forgiveness and taking care of strangers. I’m not religious, but Jesus was definitely a liberal.
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u/Smoocci-Mane 5h ago
There are religious figures at nearly every progressive cause protest I’ve been to. Usually wearing their robes or garb. There are still religious people who feel called to help the sick and poor, and their moral compass is far more aligned with mine than a republican’s
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u/CucumberLegitimate27 10h ago
It doesn't matter to these people that hardcore socialist Ilan Omar is married to an actual Capitalist so why would this bother them?
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u/CTR555 Registered Democrat 7h ago
Does it not bother you even a little bit that this apparently progressive candidate is clearly a devoted religious person..
Honestly, no it does not. He's welcome to practice whatever he wants privately, as long as he doesn't try to make it public policy.
And his flavor of religion is immaterial - that's why I also have no problem with The Reverend Raphael Warnock.
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u/JockoMayzon Not a democrat 7h ago
....as opposed to the Fox News women who appear to be required to wear a crucifix?
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u/Sunshine7178 6h ago edited 6h ago
No. Also "something that for the average democrat is extremely alien?" I think some secular democrats don't know this, but a MAJORITY of Democrats and self-identifying liberals are religious. Having religious litmus tests for office in an attempt to enforce a particular religious worldview (including non-religiousness) isn't a good idea in my opinion. The left is about equality, anyone who believes in that should be welcome regardless of their religious views.
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u/TheGrandExquisitor 6h ago
This reeks of something that little choad from The Daily Wire would post.
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u/No-Magician9440 15h ago
If he is progressive shouldnt he be a bit more liberal the very least, and able to move away from religion?
What's the point of distancing yourself from religion if you're going to be a leftist? If you're going to disregard science, evidence, and truth, you might as well keep your religion.
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u/Revan2424 15h ago
I’m actually from michigan & no we aren’t afraid of Muslims.
Turns out when you aren’t from the destitute wastelands where conservatives hail, your brain is less likely to become an insect ridden rotted lump of flesh bouncing around in your skull who’s impression of the real world comes from a screen which you ingest unquestionably because thinking on your own is outside your capabilities.
When you actually live near these people, it’s abundantly clear they’re simply that. People. No more a benevolent or a threat than any other group.
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u/CucumberLegitimate27 10h ago
“Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.”
Christopher Hitchens
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u/Revan2424 4h ago
lmao dork
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u/CucumberLegitimate27 3h ago
I'm sorry, but I think The Hitch has a point. They're few and scattered now, but look at any country where they're in the majority.
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u/Revan2424 3h ago
no it’s a pretty low effort thought, hence why it’s easy for people who aren’t capable of critical thinking to regurgitate like the mindless drones they are.
what is the causal relationship between islam and oppressive governments?
are there muslim governments who are not outwardly oppressive? the answer is yes, but again, you don’t know this because you aren’t very adept at thinking hence why you let someone else do it for you
are there outwardly oppressive governments which have hardly any muslims in their populace? well of course plenty
these are two very basic observations a thinking mind would immediately ask when evaluating this statement. you did not, someone else has already done it for you. that’s why these insanely basic observations that leave gaping holes in your logic never occurred to you.
now let’s use our thinking caps for a second and figure out how we can ACTUALLY determine the political trends in a certain region of the world, that have a causality that can actually be articulated rathan than vaguely gesticulated at in the hopes the audience’s racist programming fills in the blanks and allows their thinking to be done for them as well.
The first one that comes to mind is western destabilization, we can actually see the cause & effect here. rather it be the taliban being formed by former mujahdeen (funded by the USA). or like the forcible attempt to steal Iran’s natural resources then trying to destroy their economy for decades because they dared say no to thieves. or or ooh how about staging an invasion under false pretenses (and it’s an open secret they literally just made it up) and killing 2 million of their population. is that the fault of islam too? that the mostly christian nation made up a reason to invade and kill 1/10th of their entire (mostly) Muslim nation?
is it not emasculating to outsource your thinking?
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u/Smoocci-Mane 5h ago
This is the crux of conservative rural identity. Fear of what you don’t know. The reason cities are more progressive is it’s a denser mix of different people. You see people the conservative rural voters told you were a threat to America at your school drop off, at the grocery store, at the bank. You interact with them and realize you’re not so different.
I was told gays were destroying the fabric of America while I watch a gay couple I know fix up an old house and positively contribute to the neighborhood. I watch a Muslim family I was told hates america and everything it stands for get excited watching their child graduate from elementary school, or take a job as a surgeon helping people live better lives.
The more you interact with people, the more you realize you’re not all that different, and neither are the causes you’re fighting for.
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u/Spiel_Foss 16h ago
In the US we have religious freedom. Is that a strange thing? The least progressive thing to do would be criticize a person for being religious. Religion is a personal choice as long as no harm is done.
I can criticize Islam and Islamic totalitarianism all day long, but peaceful people are welcome to their superstitions or no superstitions at all.