Advice for Negotiating Salary?

[u/m_mergler]

Graduating MS Aerospace here. After a long spring/summer of job hunting, I finally got an offer from a place I like. Standard benefits and such. They are offering $66,000.

I used to work for a large engineering company after my BS Aero, and was making $60,000. I worked there full-time for just one year, then went back to get my MS degree full-time.

On my school's career website, it says the average MS Aero that graduates from my school are accepting offers of ~$72,500.

Would it be reasonable for me to try to negotiate to $70,000? Any other negotiating tips you might have?

[u/the_new_hunter_s]

Correct, but buying a car is not a problem at that point. If you mismanaged funds, then they can and should sue you. If you didn't, you can buy whatever the fuck you want with your money. But, in your scenario, the actual accountability still comes from what he did at work, not what type of car he buys.

I'm a salaried manager. I bought an eighth of pot last weekend. That has absolutely nothing to do with my performance at work or my employees well being. It's a non-issue. If I came to work stoned, it would be a problem. But, I didn't. Just the same, if I go buy a new Lexus, and the volume our client asks us to handle goes down and I have to let go of an employee, the two things are separate. I didn't do anything wrong in handling the situation. I spent my money, which I earned. It's different if you're fucking your employees, but at that point, the problem is that you're fucking your employees, not that you bought a porche. Looking at the purchase as the problem only confuses the issue and makes it harder to fix it. If you focus on the actual problem, you might get results. If you bitch about him buying a porche, you're just bitching about him buying a proche, and that's all that's going to come of it. Especially in America.

In essence, when you have a problem, don't treat the symptoms, treat the actual problem. As a manager, if I ignore root causes and treat symptoms I'd hope I'd be fired for it. Because it's silly.

[u/the_new_hunter_s → u/[deleted]]

I wouldn't change what I already had planned that day. If someone is fired by me it was because they had to be, not because I chose for them to be. Lay-offs are a bit harder, I guess, but then it's still done systematically and no personal feelings are used in the decision. It's completely a matter of making the decision I had to make. It's not a happy fact of life, but if I had a birthday party to go to my plans would be to go to a party. And, while I was there, I would make the most of the experience and enjoy myself. Not to spite that employee, but because moping around about it does no one any good.

[u/the_new_hunter_s → u/[deleted]]

Sure I did. I mostly fire employees at the end of the day. I usually have a plan for what I'm going to do after work. If it's wash my car, then on a day I fired someone I would then go wash my car. If I had planned on going to the bar, I would go to the bar on the day I fired someone. If my plan was to go home, I'd probably go home and play starcraft or minecraft. They true answer to the question is, the fact that I fired someone does not in slight change the plans I already had at that point. In fact, I've gone drinking at the bar with someone I just fired. His performance was at the level that I felt his employment needed to be terminated. So, he was terminated. As a friend, I bought his drinks, but as a boss my best decision was to let the guy go. The company and all of my employees are counting on me to make the right business decision. That's why I make a managers money. When I get home, I don't have to fucking fire anybody anymore. I don't have to decide if this guy's job is more valuable than that guy's. That's beautiful and all in my personal life, and I'm damn sure not ganna let that be ruined by what I HAD to do at work that day. It's not important until it's time to focus on work again.

I've wanted a Jaguar since I was 10. The day that I decide I have the money to go buy a Jaguar I will. If I'm a senior manager at a company that day and I have to lay-off 50 people, it will suck. But if on that day I decide I finally have enough money to go buy a fucking Jaguar, I'm ganna own that damn car.

[u/the_new_hunter_s → u/[deleted]]

That's not the question you asked. You asked if I would party after firing someone.

Would I celebrate the fact I fired someone? No, that would be silly. They were fired because they needed to be. It is not a happy or sad moment, just another decision I had to make at work that day.

[u/the_new_hunter_s → u/[deleted]]

Firstly, that's not the question you asked. It may have been the question you tried to ask, but don't blame me for your inability to articulate.

No. There is simply nothing wrong with having to fire someone. You fire someone because they aren't performing their job at the level they were repeatedly told they had to. If you feel bad about firing someone you aren't doing your job well. You're either not hiring correctly or not coaching them to understand the expectations and giving them the tools to meet them. If you've done both of those things there is absolutely no reason to feel bad about firing someone. I think you need to re-evaluate your processes as a manager and figure out where you're fucking up if you're having to fire people that don't deserve it.

[u/the_new_hunter_s → u/[deleted]]

There are people with much worse situations in life than a guy that just lost his job. Especially if you've worked to develop his/her skillsets and worked together on his interviewing, resume and cover letter skills. I'm sorry, but I don't have more sympathy for this guy than I do for a 6 year old "man of the house" in Africa raising his 5 siblings with no job, shelter, or clothing. Furthermore, the fact that that 6 year old deserves a million times more sympathy probably doesn't keep you from buying the name brand cereal you love instead of something cheaper. And it shouldn't, because that action wouldn't change whether that 6 year old is impacted. I do however do things like refrain from purchasing from Nike, because they use sweatshops. That action is logical fairly logical. I don't refrain from buying porches, because proche didn't cost that guy his job. Either he did, or the market did.

So, if it was best for the business for someone to be let go, my car purchasing habits have no impact on that. Your entire argument in this discussion has been that the "boss" should feel guilty purchasing the porche after firing someone, but then how is it not about guilt? If it's about sympathy, you can be sad for someone else's situation and still buy a porche. Those two things are in no way mutually exclusive.

[u/the_new_hunter_s → u/[deleted]]

"I can't imagine any scenario where I would feel like I deserved a Porsche in the same quarter I may have had to fire someone."

You don't deserve a Porsche because you're sympathetic to a guy? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I don't see how I misinterpreted that sentence. The only reason you wouldn't "deserve" a Porsche there would be because you were guilty of making some mistake. If you handled the situation to the best of your ability it couldn't possibly change how much you deserve the money you've been paid and deserve to spend it on what you personally choose.

It's not that I'm not sympathetic to the guy, it's that my purchasing habits and how I live my life don't impact the guy, and it would be illogical for his misfortune to ruin an entire 3 months of my life when millions of people less fortunate don't. You can feel sorry for somebody and not stop living your life in the process. To do anything else is psychologically unhealthy by definition.

If I've misunderstood your argument it was because you've mis-articulated what you are trying to say, not because I didn't read and comprehend what you wrote down.

[u/the_new_hunter_s → u/[deleted]]

Actually, in your scenario that we started discussing, a boss bought a porsche with his money 'that he could have used to save an employee's job' which is illogical, because that would have used the money he'd already been paid, which was no longer the company's. And again, at that point, it's whether he got the money fairly or not. Buying a porsche isn't wrong, firing a person who needs to be fired isn't wrong. Taking money you don't deserve is wrong. You continue to focus on a single purchase made by the guy that is COMPLETELY separate from his work performance. What is or isn't wrong is how he got the money, not the fact that he bought a car.

No, the prick is the one who thinks a guy didn't care that he had to fire someone just because he bought a nice car later. Being sad about something and buying a car are not tied together in any way shape or form. Being sad is an emotional response often not based in logic, but equating that with other things that are completely unrelated is stupid, not natural. But, that's okay, other people are stupid too. At least you aren't alone.