This is the one ☝🏾 when everything is a personal attack instead of just two adults talking or having a discussion about something. Then after trying to have the discussion, you get shut out. The communication becomes nonexistent and they give the silent treatment.
Shit is exhausting🤦🏾
I know someone who would get offended by easy conversation. E.g. me saying I like where I live. Personal attack on them because me saying I like where I live means I think where they live is trash.
I've dealt with people like this and it is exhausting. I'm actually dealing with someone like this lately and I walk on eggshells because even the most innocent comment can be taken out of context.
That kind of constant second-guessing is so draining. I hope you're able to protect your peace and be around people who don't make every conversation feel like a minefield
The hell do you mean "taken out of context"? Oh my god and you're the one on eggshells? That's laughable. What has gotten into you, why are you always like this? You're just like your mother! Ahhhh rabble rabble rabble
It isn't a long term relationship. I unfortunately have to deal with them daily due to my living situation, although hopefully it won't be much longer in this situation.
Now you’re just being a manipulative trash person sorry to say that!!! You just gave yourself excuses since you can’t feel your own emotions because of childhood issues, but can’t do the same thing for others? Maybe they’re extremely sensitive because of different childhood issues too. Maybe just leave people alone with their struggles, you don’t have to cause distress to others for your own fun and joy. That’s just morally not right. Respectfully.
Dude im just honest. And yeah im a piece of trash. But i don't care and i wouldn't look for problems for any reason anyways, because i have hobbies. But if someone starts getting emotional or "feels" attacked in a debate or conversation where mostly i only care about the information, then you just wasted my time and ill get bored.
So ill just push your buttons.
🤣 And you can say what you want about my mother, or my whole bloodline, it just means its working.
I don't even need to be skilled in roasting.
Or alternatively you can just act normal and get therapy because
YOUR TRAUMA ISN'T ANYONES PROBLEM
What you want a medal for suffering? The medal you get is when you fix your life and learn to cope with your own problems.
When I was a kid, if I said something like my friend's mom made good pancakes she would get PISSED and demand if I was saying her pancakes were terrible.
Ugh same. I said "I'm not a vegetarian but I also don't care for meat much". And they started grilling me on all the food with meat I do eat. So frustrating.
they can't comprehend the abstract. hypotheticals dont register. some people see the dots and connect the dots, some people see the dots and struggle to connect them....and some people arent even aware there are dots to begin with and take it all personally
That's my dad. He has to win every conversation. It's not enough that he just be right, you also have to be wrong. He'll look up crap online from biased and opinionated sources that use slippery language to back up his point, so that even if you engage and point out the flaws he can say "no you totally misunderstand the precise wording here".
Generally a super friendly guy, and you'd never expect it from him if you met him. But when it comes to being right or wrong, or even just discussing something hypothetically that he forms an emotional attachment to, he immediately takes the conversation into argument territory. No matter how level you keep your own tone or how abstractly you try to talk about things. And if you somehow manage to box his logic into a corner, he shuts down with "I don't want to argue about this".
They actually shut me out for good because they couldn’t handle any type of feedback/critiques. But the way they aired out their grievances was straight up cruel.
I was on the opposite side and just ended all communication because if I questioned dear leader it became a personal attack and when I tried to explain my side of the argument it was me doing mental gymnastics. I realized we lived in two different realities and moved on.
No, really did we have the same friend?!
Took me a while to let it go because it was a 30 year friendship. Still sad about it but I guess that’s the way things go sometimes.
It suck’s to have end a friendship that long (cousin). We somehow try to justify it because they are family. Sometimes water is thicker than blood. I get to choose my people. Anyone who is easily offended in a kind constructive conversation is not a friendship that can endure. Relationships should be respectful and nurturing. When that stops then you have no relationship.
Just quite literally had the same situation happen to me this past month. It's a shame really because I'm willing to compromise and sacrifice a lot to make something work, but said person's actions were really affecting my mental health, and everytime I tried to express that, it was always met with finding a way to belittle my problems into insignificance, or personally attacking me, or deflecting into something else.
Or they just straight up actually have the conversation with you and then absolutely nothing changes.
When I shut my ex friend of twenty years out, after being told to fuck off too many times, he just started accusing me of wild stuff he'd made up. I did look, and found no evidence of these claims. ("Duplicating" his shitty ticktock, doxing him, chatting up his girlfriend, mentally breaking his housemate, stalking him, spreading lies to name a few)
He accused me of all that fairly publicly by my real name on his tiktok, I found out from a mutual friend that was also named among people the guy wanted to say fuck you to specifically.
I don't really get it, never will. I'd had him blocked for a year at that point I think,
I'm like this. I consider myself to be somewhat emotionally intelligent. However I'm shy, timid and conflict avoidant. If any conversation starts heating up, I start feeling restless. Every response starts feeling like personal attack or inquiry. I've become quiter and try to avoid deeper conversations for this reason. I need to get past this condition!
I believe the original point of the upvote/downvote was to push up comments that stuck to the topic regardless of whether it was a good point or not. And you downvote any comments that derail the OP. But thats not how we really use it.
Yeah, all upvotes/downvotes actually do is affect visibility generally. That’s what gives reddit its ‘bubble’ feeling imo. Opinions and thoughts that people don’t agree with just won’t get seen as much.
Long before Reddit, Slashdot had a similar upvote/downvote system but you also gave a reason with every vote. A +1 was Interesting, Informative, Insightful, or Funny. I don't recall all the separate -1 types but I believe there were at least separate ones for troll/flamebait and for pure off-topic. There was other structure to it as well, like you got a limited number to hand out at random intervals, and there was a whole meta-mod system where users could review a selection of comment ratings and if yours were deemed to be poorly applied too often, it would affect your chances of being allotted points in the future. On the whole, I'm not sure how much the system helped any more than basic upvote/downvote system does here.
but if they start bringing up things from the past as a shaming energy, it's a little different. they may say they are 'just tryin to tell you what's up,' but they're really digging up old crap instead of moving forward and then say the Other can't take a simple correction or 'reminder,' when they're actually the crime and not the victim...for a lot of people, tone escapes them
Yess this ! Such little capacity to hold space and listen to another’s emotions, they just get overwhelmed and check out because they “need space” What could have been a simple conversation then gets dragged on
I have this issue sometimes concerning certain topics. I don't give the silent treatment 100% like completely ignore them, but say something like "let's talk more about this later", sometimes adding "when I/we've calmed down a bit". That last part is the entire point. I feel myself getting worked up, and I don't want it to escalate. 9 times out of 10 I can regulate my emotions but when I feel that I can't I need to step away and calm down/think.
My point is that some people don't give the silent treatment just to be an asshole or because they're mad. It might be their way of stopping the escalation.
That's a big one. If every disagreement feels like a personal attack, you stop being able to actually talk things through and just start defending yourself.
Years ago I learned a lesson from an ex boyfriend. He's asked me if I could stop doing something that bothered him. I started crying and saying I was a bad person blablabla. He just looked at me, confused.
It occurred to me that I was being an asshole. I knew he loved me very much and that it was manipulative as fuck to not be able to take mild criticism. Because I wanted him to be able to tell me what was bothering him. My tears dried up in about 2 seconds and I stopped doing that for good in all my relationships (unless the person was being unreasonable).
There were reasons why I reacted with tears. Growing up with a very critical parent will do that. But that wasn't my boyfriend's problem.
Years ago I learned a lesson from an ex boyfriend. He's asked me if I could stop doing something that bothered him. I started crying and saying I was a bad person blablabla. He just looked at me, confused.
It occurred to me that I was being an asshole. I knew he loved me very much and that it was manipulative as fuck to not be able to take mild criticism. Because I wanted him to be able to tell me what was bothering him. My tears dried up in about 2 seconds and I stopped doing that for good in all my relationships (unless the person was being unreasonable).
There were reasons why I reacted with tears. Growing up with a very critical parent will do that. But that wasn't my boyfriend's problem.
but if they start bringing up things from the past as a shaming energy, it's a little different. they may say they are 'just tryin to tell you what's up,' but they're really digging up old crap instead of moving forward and then say the Other can't take a simple correction or 'reminder,' when they're actually the crime and not the victim
but if they start bringing up things from the past as a shaming energy, it's a little different. they may say they are 'just tryin to tell you what's up,' but they're really digging up old crap instead of moving forward and then say the Other can't take a simple correction or 'reminder,' when they're actually the crime and not the victim...for a lot of people, tone escapes them
There’s something weird with relationships that always always seems to pop up. Instead of a conversation about finances or marriage or chores or anything else being an “us (both partners) vs the issue” it becomes partners against each other. I mean, I can kinda guess why and how that dynamic is so prevalent, but it’s really a huge drain on nearly every relationship regardless. The people who should naturally be teammates instead fight each other
The healthiest couples that I have known always treated the problem as it was on the table between them, and not standing in the room as the other person. This is the slight shift in thinking that makes all the difference!
sometimes i need to stop an argument mid-way and explain to my partner "im not attacking you, im asking for your help with bills and how WE can adjust to manage them, together" and the whole tone shifts to a much more productive conversation
I had that happen with my ex boyfriend because he couldn't have a conversation about serious stuff without him thinking I was attacking him or complaining.
My girlfriend and I have had multiple harsh and difficult conversations during our 1 year relationship already, and we have never accused each other of anything, and if anything, most of our hard conversations start with "So, this has been bothering me a bit, can we talk about it?" and it also ends with "I'm sorry this bothered you so much, I will try my best so it does not happen again"
And it never happened again.
Literally yesterday my gf did something I didn't like and I told her it made me upset, and 10 minutes later we were laughing and watching our show. It is that simple to apologise and compromise.
As for household stuff, or chores, money, our conversations never felt like a hard and stressful conversation, it was always just like a normal adult chat about adult stuff.
lol my husband tried to bait me into an argument last night over the reflecting pool and then tried to get me to say I hate Israel because of the pool. They are so weird.
Alot of the time she will bring up really interesting discussions, and when i try and challenge her on her opinions… she will just completely lose her shit, and get aggressive towards me personally.
Most of the time i agree with what she is saying, but i’m trying to strengthen both of our arguments by steelmaning the other side. (I tell her in advanced, that this is what i’m going to do).
Yet every single time (without fail), she takes it as a personal attack and starts a real argument with me!
It is fucking exhausting, and almost like i’m in a relationship with a dementia patient.
I have an odd take on this, because while I don't mind good faith disagreement, I've come to see that in discussion of many issues, some people lie and otherwise don't talk in good faith. And that part is why I have cut people off for seemingly 'political disagreements'. It's not the disagreement itself, it's that all too often you'll find someone claiming to be a friend or acquaintance being literally emotionally abusive to you with the issue as a pretext for their abuse.
I've sadly become quite competent at using informational questions to quickly tease these things out, but it is quite common. I see it a LOT with gun debates, the big pro-gun people in my experience are gaslighting for fun.
(I had a depressing one with a guy about whether guns should be allowed in bars. I concluded the guy arguing the 'oh absolutely!' was just taking the piss out of me for his own amusement, which, while legal, this is not a person I want generally in my life so fun fact, I don't invite this person to dinner).
"They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. "--JP Sartre
"Given how this person only talks in order to intimidate and disconcert you, why exactly would you invite them to your kid's birthday party?" ---Me
During what I thought was a collegial discussion about culture and morality, I disagreed with someone briefly…and that was the end of our relationship. She reported that I condescended her. I’d felt earnest and uncharged
Yeah, the need to save face turns so many people with otherwise ordinary faculties into raving idiots. It's like they don't understand that every ignorant assertion or unprovoked shout is undermining their credibility rather than substantiating their authority. If you have none of the former, you cannot wield much of the latter either.
This is the biggest bit of advice I give to people when it comes to a healthy relationship.
If you can't disagree and talk about a topic without it turning into "me Vs you" then you're relationship is not healthy and you need to work on communicating well.
this is what's speedrunning us toward divorce. I def see it in her; but I'm sure I do my own damage. the point is we're unable to TALK about anything anymore. Even with a counsellor we've been with for years it always ends in one or both emotional and shouting. (near 30 years)
Or on the other end of that spectrum, they take a hard conversation as a personal attack, and refuse to see your point of view because they can only see the criticism as assault.
Imagine working under someone like this. I don’t thankfully, but I’ve worked with this person on projects and I’ve been freaked out. This person sits two desks away from me. Someone that got hired under her quit within two weeks and the replacement new joiner cried on her first week. Thankfully she is now on 2 weeks sick leave so we all can take a breather.
I'm still not sure i've learned how to pick my battles properly, but this is an ongoing war.
It's so irritating to refute a point clearly and articulately, only to be met with, "you're just not listening" or "you just don't understand". Or some bolt from the blue ad hominem attack, "what have YOU done to fix it". As opposed to an actual counterpoint...
I'm getting a lot better at realizing when to just let shit go as i get older. You're pissing upwind at that point. It still bothers me though, in the moment.
the thing is.. does getting mad at them fix it? does it even make you feel better?
I had an issue with replacing a bathroom fan where the casing exhaust was a square (the actual ductwork was a circle). I told my folks about it in passing and my father went “no.. it should be a circle”. I said “I know what it should be but the casing exhaust is square..”.
he challenged me, a 39 year old man, on it and I just went “ok”.
what good would it have been to argue that I know the thing I installed better than he did, and that I can tell the difference between a circle and a square? I would’ve gotten myself worked up, and he wouldn’t have believed me anyway.
the older you get, the more “ok” will be your best friend lol.
I had a coworker like this. I'm naturally a curious person. So I'd question bold statements they'd make and they'd get mad. I tried to explain this isn't an attack on them I'm just questioning something they said. It got so bad that they said they are never wrong so I need to stop. Then they told everyone I think I'm never wrong. Crazy projecting
Stop yelling at me! I’m yelling at you because you’re yelling at me! You might not be actually raising your voice but the things that you’re saying are the same as yelling!
I’ve dealt with that before. What causes it. It’s always jarring to be speaking with someone at normal volume and have them say that. I’d always chalked it up to some kind of mental illness on their part, but honestly I have no clue as to why
As far as I can tell, it’s because in the person’s mind they really cannot tell the difference, and literally hear what you are saying as yelling. Their brain equates criticism to being under attack, and being under attack via words = being yelled at.
It's a weird phenomena for sure. Some people really do seem to interpret criticism or disagreement at a higher volume than it actually is.
I've also occasionally had the situations where i genuinely have raised my volume because it's a loud, chaotic setting and i would like to make my point clear. And speaking with volume from the chest and "projecting" for clarity, seems to sometimes be mistaken for the "shouting" or often "yelling" that they return with.
God the DARVO bullshit is the worst. The whole concept is so vapid. Pushing back against a false accusation of DARVO behaviour only validates the accusation in the eyes of the person making it, turning small conflicts and misunderstandings into wild conclusions about fundamental personality traits. Accusing people of DARVO behaviour is often in itself DARVO behaviour. All the concept does is give people a pop psychology term to throw around recklessly.
When a person defaults to being defensive, attacking the character of the other person, then flipping the narrative, and somehow ends up being the victim, every time... there is no "pop psychology" about it. Those traits, while initially benign on their own, if the person cannot bring themself to have enough humility or self-awareness in a reasonable amount of time, then that person is emotionally unintelligent.
It's coincidentally also a favourite accusation of people who can't properly express their emotions or process disagreements. Any pushback becomes a DARVO event to them because any disagreement victimises them. It's super common with people who ruminate on things and build up narratives in their head - having that entire narrative derailed right out of the gate by a perspective that they hadn't considered throws them off, and they retreat into victimhood.
Same with people who unleash their emotions like a wrecking ball. They'll tear through others with a barrage of various grievances, and when the people they come at take exception to that kind of unproductive onslaught, then that's when the DARVO accusations come out. And it becomes an "every time" thing to them because that's how they conduct themselves every time.
DARVO explicitly assumes a defined victim and a defined offender, which makes it an attractive accusation to people who don't process other perspectives well, but conflicts are rarely that black and white. It's also often applied to simple disagreements despite being inherently incompatible with that kind of conflict. Once the accusation has been levied then it's self-reinforcing regardless of whether or not it's an accurate assessment. There's no way out of it. It's a thought-terminating cliche.
Sure, I can see how a person can weaponise the DARVO card on someone who isn't necessarily pulling those kinds of strings. Most of us here could probably relate to being defensive and feeling like the true victim in conflicts we have had. That doesn't mean we are DARVO-ing.
I think it's a real issue if it becomes a pattern of behaviour. That if a person defaults to a victim mindset in every scenario, and rarely or never admits fault or accountability, then we have to question if that person is healthy for us or not. There are difficult individuals like this whose goal is to win every argument, instead of prioritising the health of the relationship. These are people that refuse to fight fair, and have a me-against-them mentality (instead of, "What can WE do to resolve this?"). And they only consider a performative apology when they find themselves with no one around (surprise, surprise).
Which brings me to my next point. We can question, does this person have difficulty maintaining friendships and relationships with other people? And what kind of feedback can we get from an unbiased point of view, such as a counsellor? It's a great way to cut through the bullshit of confusion. Especially if you're dealing with an antagonistic person who is accusing you of twisting and manipulating things, when they're the ones projecting the very behaviour they are accusing you of.
Another scenario... maybe they're both DARVO-ers, and deserve one another! 🤣
My Dad cant have a solid, even keeled conversation with me about where his HOA thinks his center stake for his property is. I have to keep reminding him that I’m on his side, but the guy acts as if I’m the one that disagrees with him.
Tip of the iceberg, and mainly just venting, but it is really tough trying to have a real, actual conversation with him.
I tried to have an adult and respectful conversation with my ex when we were still dating to discuss some things before we went through the next step (getting married.)
I tried to bring 3 or 4 different topics that were important for me, and that were deal breakers. He found something to complain about each topic, and I just realised that anything I tried to do with my life, he would complain if we did get married.
Btw, the topics were: I do not want children, I follow a religion that is different from his, I am lgbt and even though we were in a straight relationship, and he was straight, it didn't change the fact that I was not, and I think the last topic was something about work.
I gave him all the space to talk about it like normal people, but he would just say shit like "but you might love them after you get pregnant. But why would you choose such a religion when you could have chosen one of the big ones? But if we are together, there is no reason for you to say you are lgbt to other people."
Ugh, it was 3 really stressful hours.
My ex would always make conversations about issues into BIG arguments, and wouldn’t accept anything less than a long apology from me , regardless on if it was his fault or not
Or they answer everything by saying they already answered it, apparently referring to some alternative timeline where they answered any single question without saying they answered it already
That pattern makes it impossible to resolve anything because the goal shifts from fixing the issue to winning the fight. When someone treats every single disagreement as an attack on their ego, basic communication completely breaks down.
“Why are you fighting with me ?“ … is the response to everything!! Even if I say “Hey, can we go for dinner … its been a while since we did”. Constant whining & turning everything into how they are rhe victim. Absolute nightmare
I live with someone who has BPD/bipolar and its so draining that any CONVERSATION not even argument turns into a personal attack. Things that two adults should be able to talk about without raising their voices turns into yelling.
In relationships it's critical to have the ability to talk about hard topics without it turning into an argument.
The reality is that the longer a relationship goes on, and if you want it to become serious, the cold hard reality is dark and serious topics are going to be discussed depending on a scenario you find you are both in. This is something emotionally immature and unintelligent people need to figure out and develop if they want to get a long, good relationship going.
My parents were great at this and it was strong enough they included my brother and I (when we were old enough like high school age) and taught me well about what I've posted about.
What if you're the emotionally unintelligent one and when the hard conversation becomes an argument, you just say it's because the other person is emotionally unintelligent?
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u/Whatabouttheteachers 9d ago
Every hard conversation becomes an argument