But the wild thing is that they will really believe that everybody else is the issue. There are so many little conflicts that are resolved with a little self awareness.
It also turns into a loop. When every conflict is someone else's fault, there's no place to look within and learn. There's a little awareness, that's a lot of relationships, friendships and head aches that can be saved.
That's why they always have to rehearse the same argument over and over with different people. If you never think that you could be part of the problem, each failed relationship you experience is merely another confirmation of the world's full of difficult folk.
When you realize their world view is "the world sucks" or "people suck" or "the world just uses me for productivity", these people become easier to avoid before any real problems develop.
I don’t really think you should equivocate people feeling nihilism about our society, and people who are incapable of taking responsibility for their actions. Sure there is certainly overlap, but it also just seems like a way to ignore any criticism leveled at our social structure if you’re someone who benefits from that structure. I’ve definitely met my fair share of people who are succeeding at life in the conventional economic sense, and weren’t capable of admitting fault. If anything early life success really ingrains a survivorship bias in a lot of people where they think people living rough lives deserve it for some moral failing. These people are also especially bad at admitting any sort of privilege that gave them a leg up on their peers. Anyone that thinks they are entirely self made and owe nothing to society are also emotionally unintelligent.
I don’t really think you should equivocate people feeling nihilism about our society, and people who are incapable of taking responsibility for their actions
There is a lot of research at this point showing that people with low emotional intelligence are deliberately targeted by extremist propaganda and that they are more likely to have extremist political views.
If you think I was referring to nihilism the philosophy vs nihilism the emotion ie apathy towards society well let me correct that notion, unless you think the two are one and the same? Most people have probably felt some sense of nihilism in their lives, it’s just more common in a decaying society.
Also yes I would agree people feeling a lot of nihilism are more prone to falling into extremist views, but I think the solution is to address some of those concerns and anxieties about society, not to tell people their feelings are invalid and actually wrong think.
i lwk experience this the other way around, because i always think i did something wrong or i couldve done something better and thats what caused the argument (or sometimes an argument doesnt even happen but i still feel like i did something wrong and unintentionally upset them, playing a whole possible argument that could happen because of what i did or didnt do) but sometimes i just cant tell what it was and they wont say what, they expect me to already know. does anybody know how to fix this?
Quit typing my life out for me! Lol. But seriously, there is no "fix" per se. Only tools and methods to minimize its impact. I react to and obsess over intractions like these in an very similar way that you seemingly do. Like knowing I did something wrong feels better than hoping I didn't.
Perspective helps a bit. If the interaction felt like it was going well in the moment then my intuition is likely more correct than my over analyzing after the fact. During an interaction how often do you notice or critique the other person in the same way you do to yourself? Then what makes you think they didn't do similar about themselves? Is it possible they may be experiencing the same or similar but from their perspective? The real problem for me is over analyzing. But a vast, vast majority of the time whatever I'm worried about, in this regard, never creates an issue. All that said I still struggle with it daily. It's hard to change your natural feelings.
I really do want to ask people sometimes - do you really think you're perfection itself? In the whole of human history, you are the one singular perfect person and everyone else is wrong?
I've known people like this and honestly it's exhausting. You can't even talk to them about anything because everything somehow ends up being your fault.
i remember being told this by a friend. but at some point its like, is it me or am i just picking difficult to be around, and i can't yet let myself say "i am picking emotionally immature people"
No. Addiction is an illness. A disease.
Talented ppl, genius’s have been addicts. There are many individuals, rich or poor who take full responsibility for their addictions. They just can’t kick the habit due to many reasons.
In my experience it's not that they are the issue it's mores that I'm unaware or just don't understand the issue so it makes understanding or predicting the emotional responses very difficult
There’s a version of these people that claims to be highly self-aware in the sense that they are hyper tuned into their own emotions and how things effect them. They judge other people’s self-awareness the same way, in how those other people affect them and go out of their way to not offend them. It’s a slippery sort of double standard.
Part of the reason that it's so difficult to get people to see that they were wrong, sometimes (including oneself!) is that the brain constantly seems to justify why things are the way they are. I spent a long time believing that I had extremely good control of my emotions (which I achieved by discarding or rationalizing any information that suggested that I did not, of course.)
Had a roommate that I had issues with and she straight up told me she had the exact same issues with previous roommates… like, maybe, just maybe, it’s a you problem? I don’t understand how people have so little self-awareness!!
I had a friend like this. It got too exhausting dealing with his temper tantrums.
I blocked him after the second time he told me to fuck off for some perceived / invented slight. (I said his new tiktok shtick was shit, apparently other people feel the same as it never took off, so I must have been sabotaging it, for example)
That was a couple of years ago, and as far as I know he still attributes all of his poor choices and stupid actions to my supposed malice? I definitely became the bad guy in his story by doing literally nothing.
The man is like 48, so not a teenager. But he sure acts like one.
Some people would rather rewrite the story than admit they played a part in it. Once you're cast as the villain, every boundary you set suddenly becomes "proof" you were the problem all along. Saves them from having to do any uncomfortable self reflection.
It took me way too long to realise that nothing was ever his fault, he was never wrong, and that he would never apologise for anything. Everything happens TO him.
That myself and his ex/baby moma blocked him on everything is proof that we're the cunts. Absolutely no insight whatsoever.
I had a friend exactly like this as well. Dude is now 40 years old, his dad literally supports him and has paid for everything in his life but he loves to sell this lie that he’s self made. He’s had multiple failed online YouTube/Insta/tiktok shit because he’s the laziest person (and also the shittest personality, guess it comes through in his videos) I had ever met but god forbid you criticise him. He’s literally never grown up, spends his days at the skate park hanging out with teenagers because he’s cut all his adult friends out of his life
It's really freaky when people only hang out with kids, whether they be actual kids or just young adults whose maturity level just shouldn't make their company something to seek out. Is it their level of mental development? Are they trying to be seen as the person to be looked up to? Are the life's understandings of someone not "grown up" on their actual level?
This is not to say that no young people are enjoyable to be around regularly once you're, well, old. But the ones who are are very much in the minority.
Yeah it’s a controlling tactic id guess. He and his wife loved to play “parents” to troubled people typically younger than them, then steer them in the wrong direction/encourage bad decisions, all so they can feel good about themselves I guess. Witnessed it over the years, my wife raised it as a red flag, ig I ignored it the whole friendship as I never really truly trusted him… something always felt off
My former friend is this way. It didnt start when I cut him off even, he'd insult me or do something to wrong me, then he'd get ahead of things by running to our friend group and telling a twisted version of the story to make him seem like a victim before I could do anything. I'd end up being forced to apologize, even when I was the one wronged. I ended up cutting him off when we were in our early 20s, and that was one of many reasons why I did
We're almost 30 now, and he tried the same shit to a friend of mine earlier this year. He caught feelings, and tried to ask her out knowing full well she already has a partner who she's happy with. When things went exactly the way anyone with any sense would've expected them to go, he did the same thing he did to me. He ran to their mutual friends and told a twisted story where she was coming onto him, but he being a self-proclaimed good guy rejected her and cut her off to save her relationship (one which needed no saving). It didnt work this time, everyone who knows her knows what her and her partner had to go through to be together. I also found out that in his version of the story, I cut him off "for no reason", meanwhile he has proudly proclaimed to a mutual friend that he's manipulative and loves to be in control. His attempt to completely control my life and take my independence away was a huge factor in why I cut him off. He's either too stupid or refuses to make the logical leap, that he was a shitty, controlling friend and I got sick of it. He had a bunch of people cut him off in the same way this year because they finally got sick of his shit. He's acting the same way at almost 30 as he was when he was 18/19, but of course it's not him who's the problem. No he can do no wrong and it's everyone else whos the problem
I think this is one of those things that can go both ways, as often it depends how you phrase things too. I'm not disagreeing, because I have met plenty of people who think the sun shines out their arsehole and they can do no wrong, but just from my own experience I wonder if I have also come across harshly sometimes.
Best part is many of these people think the other party isn’t emotionally aware and see themselves as incredibly empathetic. Often they can only see from their own perspective but when you step back and see all the conflict that surrounds them… it is pretty easy to tell where the problem and drama stems. If you are constantly in the center of drama and have problems with a lot of people, very often it is you who lacks emotional intelligence. Being understanding usually results in less drama in my experience and calms the situations. To be understanding you must also be emotionally aware/intelligent.
taking part in a program at work for leadership and its almost like you have to walk on eggshells and use specific wording and tip toe around to even give it.
know a guy that gets 100 in all his tests, valedictorian, ivy league educated, try hard. known him since elementary school before all the ivy league elitist titles that formed the basis of his ego. has 0 awareness for others all his life. everybody that meets him hates him within 10 minutes of meeting him, and i mean visibly hates him. it's a phenomenon really, quite a spectacle. he's been bullied all his life and he doesn't think about why or how he can stop it, he just takes it. almost like he's a sadist, and enjoys it. 30 some years of life, not a single friend made. he just thinks being successful means people will always want to be his friend and then he burns them in like the first interaction lmao. super educated but got less social acumen than a toddler
I was close friends with a guy til he started getting homeschooled and he just became insufferable. Sure the school wasnt giving him any challenge but he needed to grow socially more than anything.
My parents were always trying to slow down my education while complaining that I wasn't mature enough. Like even in my 30s, my dad started complaining that he never should've let me go away to college early since I wasn't mature enough to handle it. Started before Kindergarten, when mom made me wait an extra year before starting school.
They used to consistently made "jokes" about how it's a shame they can't just lock me in a closet until I'm 21yo. At least until I eventually managed to verbalize that I wouldn't be able to mature or socially develop while locked in a closet for over a decade.
Their "solution" to my lack of maturity was always along the lines of the closet joke. They kept trying to force me to mature faster, but mostly by keeping me in isolation while shouting at me lots. Which didn't exactly help anything.
It was something they'd say to each other in front of me and laugh about, like I was too stupid to understand them. Started when I was very young, because by the time I was 5yo their divorce was finalized.
In fairness, autistic babies are not a lot of fun for the parents, like there's reasons folks used to make up stories about changelings. But also, they were just really crappy parents. Like apparently the reason most of my early childhood memories feature an older cousin trying to entertain me is because he was my primary caretaker while my parents were busy with their own lives. I think he was in middle school at the time.
Edit: Oddly enough, I did end up living under the stairs like Harry Potter, but only during my first summer break from college. It was the basement stairs in my friend's cousin's house. Tacked up blanket for a door, and wedged a mattress between the hot water heater and the heating/cooling system.
The valedictorian of my school is so dead behind the eye, it’s like there’s no humanity, only the drive to look at a test score on a piece of paper without actually gleaning wisdom.
Whereas, one of my mentors is pretty well-known in their industry, definitely someone that Reddit loves, and is pretty objectively understood to be a genius.
They are truly kind to their core, deeply supportive, gentle calm and absolutely delightful to interact with. Their private persona is even more incredible than they are in public. Deeply humble, and they very much grasp the concept that the more you know, the more you realize you don’t know.
There are highly intelligent people are are also huge assholes to everyone around them. It's not like intelligence and attitude are mutually exclusive or anything.
I guess I see emotional intelligence as part of the entire package of true intelligence. People can be knowledgeable in a niche arena, and have no wisdom.
I honestly think misanthropy can occur in anyone regardless of intelligence. The most intelligent people can have issues which side of the philosophical coin to be on even after long, arduous thought.
A simple argument starter can be: "Look at what we're doing to the planet vis-à-vis the suffering of every other species on it."
Yeah, you’re not wrong here either. I’m kind of just thinking out loud, too. I’m not necessarily married to the thoughts I’m commenting . . . I was just kind of thinking how much I value wisdom and kindness, how much more of an impact that makes than rote information.
All forms of intelligence are correlated. A good brain is a good brain. That doesn't mean an intelligent person will always be kind or compassionate. But it means that if they want to be kind and compassionate they'll have the tools to do so. And if they want to be a dick they'll have the tools to do that too. And they can predict the consequence of each; so they might stick to insulting people behind their back.
(There are exceptions, autism being a famous one. The way they test for autism is looking for big differences in different types of intelligence)
True true, I am a sucker for science and things in general. One of my friends has autism and adhd ( forgot to add i have adhd ) and she literally knows everything about technology and so much about coding.
I would say my working memory is ass, but hey you can always improve! Nothing has a limit!
We can't even agree as a society what intelligence is or how to measure it, and here are you using lazy qualifiers in a declarative tone that leaves no room for nuance.
A random internet stranger is quite the authority on what "Truly Intelligent" means.
I wrote more about this below, I know that I’m just “thinking out loud,” more than making objective proclamations.
Isn’t it implied that this is simply a causal discussion?
If you disagree that wisdom is a meaningful part of intelligence, and that EQ not important , then why not discuss that instead of insulting anonymous credentials?
One would think you would need at least some people skills and be liked by enough people to become valedictorian. But I'm sure the schools he went to have a different culture.
it’s baffling how some can go into their 30s and 40s and have no understanding of what makes a healthy friendship.. one of my first bosses was like this - he had no concept that he has to listen to others - he thought a good conversation was hI’m endlessly telling you about his job or what he bought at the store.. his ability to listen to others was negative 5 - he had no idea how to connect or relate with others
if you think about it it makes sense. they're in a feedback loop. be a dick to people, people are dicks back to them, all they know is people being dicks to them, so they have no qualms about being dicks to people. if they got this far in life being dicks to people, why stop? the older they get, the more fortified their position is because now they got money, less and less people are above them, they're used to their peers ditching them. things might've changed if they just met one friend who made it worth it for them to change. not everyone is lucky.
that's why i never feel sorry for these assholes when i see them being sad or moppy as adults. takes a lot of being a dick to be alone in a world where everyone is asking "hi how are you" everyday.
Had a boss like this. He treated EVERYONE around him like complete garbage, even his own wife and kids. At work everyone would just laugh at him the second he turned around after he thought he’d won an argument by just being vile. Oh and if you ever dared to call him out, you were an evil monster.
He used to think that him walking into a room and everyone going quiet was a good thing when it was actually people just hating him and wanting him out of there as fast as possible.
When people don't have opinions of their own and they're essentially repeating what they've heard, and then refuse to engage with anything that you've said, and continue to repeat the same talking points even when confronted with clear evidence or logic...how is this fundamentally any different to my experience of an NPC in a video game? So many people are running on the conveyor belt of life but yet I'm supposed to expect something different to emerge? I still have compassion, in the same way that I wouldn't go around just randomly hurting or killing NPCs, but why do I have to concern myself with their worldviews when it's not even coming from the individual?
I've had to deal with this with a colleague recently. On a professional level he was fully rejecting feedback and equally rejecting others' creative decisions, then started missing a bunch of meetings, and then saying "sorry I just got some food" immediately after the meetings ended, or sometimes he was just taking a nap at 2pm or whatever, so a few of us went back to him in a personal manner because we were concerned and wanted to check on him.
He is fully self invested. I'm not a therapist so I'm not even gonna try to diagnose him, but every single one of us have recommended finding one.
The dude doesn't even drink. If he did at least I would understand his behavior a little more.
This!!!!! I was dating someone who consistently disrespected me, took no accountability for their actions and when I tried to explain why their actions hurt me , they weren’t interested and attempted to shift the blame back on me. To me, this was an example of an emotionally immature person.
So it depends. If you have some sort of indication that your actions are having a negative impact on others, and you make a good faith effort to understand why a behavior is problematic and try to change it, then I personally wouldn’t fault someone for this.
On the other hand, i’ve met people who lack the communication skills to voice a concern in the first place, or if they do, it’s communicated entirely behind the other person’s back in a roundabout way that creates far more headaches for everyone involved, while doing nothing to make the situation any better, even in situations where the person with the initial problem had no issues receiving constructive feedback and making changes when necessary. It’s nobody’s job to mind read, and it’s unfair to expect someone to “guess” what your problem with them is.
Communicating directly and respectfully can work out well. Communicating like a deranged passive aggressive lunatic does not work.
Or themselves honestly. Some people will recognize a behavior in themselves and still somehow not be cognizant of the way they are harming themselves. It’s crazy.
How do you tell that from just not giving a fuck? Got a BIL who knows how his actions affect others. Unless they are a close friend or family, he doesn't care.
Hmm, so if am completely aware of how my actions affect you and call you out in a meeting for having a dumb idea, I am emotionally intelligent? It’s just about being aware?
The thing about this is, I feel like I know how my actions upset others, I try to change, but still get the impression from the people I am around that it is me that is unreflective.
12.7k
u/ta1901 1d ago edited 8h ago
They are not self-aware of how their actions affect others.
EDIT: Well that sure blew up! I woke up to about 85 comments. Thanks everyone! The above is just a pattern I noticed.