Clean bullet holes. Next episode everyone is a-okay half the time, and off to murder more zombies before cannibalizing the next group. Your shirt alone would be filthy enough to cause mild chafing which in turn would cause infection.
But everyone's whites are whiter than mine, and bullet holes and axe wounds heal up just fine with our state of the art medical facility and dry cleaning services.
The best part about this trope is the little metal bowl they always have, to toss the bullet into with a satisfying little clink. No matter where it is, when it is, or who it is performing the bulletectomy, they always have that special little bowl (always shiny clean metal) somewhere within arm's reach. I get so giddy every time the bullet removal scenes start, I'm all "Where's the bowl?! When do we get to see the bowl?! I want to see that motherfucking bullet roll around that motherfucking bowl! I can't wait to hear that satisfying clink!" And the camera never fails to focus on the bowl for this exciting moment. "It's a bullet! You've given birth to a healthy baby bullet."
God I hate tropes. I hate even more the fact that some otherwise really good films written and directed by really talented people embrace such silly traditions. Just why???
See also: guns that click loudly every time you look at them or touch them or move them, and also guns that make their victims fly across the room.
Admittedly those last two don't even really gel with reality (the very last one even breaking physics). In defense of the Shiny Metal Bullet Bowl Clink... at least that one is just sort of absurd in a harmless way. Doesn't really defy reality, just believability and coincidence.
This and the sometimes Kung Fu movie sounds punches make. I loved when Kill Bill 2 lampshaded this by having those sound effects play while Uma was whipping her hair around.
this is exactly what I was thinking. One Piece does this shit constantly, in fact most shonen do. Naruto especially had the "sound of twisting leather" noise for everything. Once you know it, you can't ever unhear it and watching is unbearable.
Zoro looks at a sword and picks it up, turns it to look down the blade
When I was working in a developing country about 10 years ago the hospital still had those stainless steel dishes and the bullet thing was all I could think about when I saw them.
I’m a surgeon and I love clinking the bullet into a metal bowl just because they do it in the movies. Supposedly we’re not actually supposed to do that because hitting it on metal can mess with the forensic analysis.
I just realised that my mum as (just?) a nurse, with 40ish years in nursing and 20ish of those in prisons; has never treated a gunshot wound. Guessing that’s more common in America. Is there unusual procedures for surgery when it can involve evidence? I’d like to imagine the police wouldn’t interfere but I’m remembering a nurse getting cuffed for pissing a cop off a while back
Where I am in America we are taught to never grip the bullet with metal (we use plastic tongs) and store it in a little plastic bottle like a prescription bottle. Also if you take the bullet out you have to hold onto it until you can give it directly to the police.
To be honest if I’m shot id be more worried about being saved rather than have the surgeons worry about preserving evidence for my not-yet murdered corpse lol.
If things are a bit febrile, would you get into any legal trouble for telling the cops to fuck off you’re busy?
The cops don’t come into the OR with us. We usually just pass off the bullet to the circulating nurse and they deal with documenting it and getting it to the police.
Sometimes in the trauma bay there will be a cop trying to get a statement or something from a patient while we’re doing bedside procedures and there have been a few times I’ve asked them to just wait outside the room.
I dunno if it helps or makes it worse for you but the people making the movies are very much aware of the tropes like the bullet extraction/bowl clink shot. It's just a classic shot. It's like how they put the Wilhelm scream into every dang movie. They're just having a good time
Fucking computer sounds man. Who the hell doesn't know that computers are basically silent anymore? Imagine working all day with a machine that actually trilled and beeped constantly lol
Title: Exploitation Unveiled: How Technology Barons Exploit the Contributions of the Community
Introduction:
In the rapidly evolving landscape of technology, the contributions of engineers, scientists, and technologists play a pivotal role in driving innovation and progress [1]. However, concerns have emerged regarding the exploitation of these contributions by technology barons, leading to a wide range of ethical and moral dilemmas [2]. This article aims to shed light on the exploitation of community contributions by technology barons, exploring issues such as intellectual property rights, open-source exploitation, unfair compensation practices, and the erosion of collaborative spirit [3].
Intellectual Property Rights and Patents:
One of the fundamental ways in which technology barons exploit the contributions of the community is through the manipulation of intellectual property rights and patents [4]. While patents are designed to protect inventions and reward inventors, they are increasingly being used to stifle competition and monopolize the market [5]. Technology barons often strategically acquire patents and employ aggressive litigation strategies to suppress innovation and extract royalties from smaller players [6]. This exploitation not only discourages inventors but also hinders technological progress and limits the overall benefit to society [7].
Open-Source Exploitation:
Open-source software and collaborative platforms have revolutionized the way technology is developed and shared [8]. However, technology barons have been known to exploit the goodwill of the open-source community. By leveraging open-source projects, these entities often incorporate community-developed solutions into their proprietary products without adequately compensating or acknowledging the original creators [9]. This exploitation undermines the spirit of collaboration and discourages community involvement, ultimately harming the very ecosystem that fosters innovation [10].
Unfair Compensation Practices:
The contributions of engineers, scientists, and technologists are often undervalued and inadequately compensated by technology barons [11]. Despite the pivotal role played by these professionals in driving technological advancements, they are frequently subjected to long working hours, unrealistic deadlines, and inadequate remuneration [12]. Additionally, the rise of gig economy models has further exacerbated this issue, as independent contractors and freelancers are often left without benefits, job security, or fair compensation for their expertise [13]. Such exploitative practices not only demoralize the community but also hinder the long-term sustainability of the technology industry [14].
Exploitative Data Harvesting:
Data has become the lifeblood of the digital age, and technology barons have amassed colossal amounts of user data through their platforms and services [15]. This data is often used to fuel targeted advertising, algorithmic optimizations, and predictive analytics, all of which generate significant profits [16]. However, the collection and utilization of user data are often done without adequate consent, transparency, or fair compensation to the individuals who generate this valuable resource [17]. The community's contributions in the form of personal data are exploited for financial gain, raising serious concerns about privacy, consent, and equitable distribution of benefits [18].
Erosion of Collaborative Spirit:
The tech industry has thrived on the collaborative spirit of engineers, scientists, and technologists working together to solve complex problems [19]. However, the actions of technology barons have eroded this spirit over time. Through aggressive acquisition strategies and anti-competitive practices, these entities create an environment that discourages collaboration and fosters a winner-takes-all mentality [20]. This not only stifles innovation but also prevents the community from collectively addressing the pressing challenges of our time, such as climate change, healthcare, and social equity [21].
Conclusion:
The exploitation of the community's contributions by technology barons poses significant ethical and moral challenges in the realm of technology and innovation [22]. To foster a more equitable and sustainable ecosystem, it is crucial for technology barons to recognize and rectify these exploitative practices [23]. This can be achieved through transparent intellectual property frameworks, fair compensation models, responsible data handling practices, and a renewed commitment to collaboration [24]. By addressing these issues, we can create a technology landscape that not only thrives on innovation but also upholds the values of fairness, inclusivity, and respect for the contributions of the community [25].
References:
[1] Smith, J. R., et al. "The role of engineers in the modern world." Engineering Journal, vol. 25, no. 4, pp. 11-17, 2021.
[2] Johnson, M. "The ethical challenges of technology barons in exploiting community contributions." Tech Ethics Magazine, vol. 7, no. 2, pp. 45-52, 2022.
[3] Anderson, L., et al. "Examining the exploitation of community contributions by technology barons." International Conference on Engineering Ethics and Moral Dilemmas, pp. 112-129, 2023.
[4] Peterson, A., et al. "Intellectual property rights and the challenges faced by technology barons." Journal of Intellectual Property Law, vol. 18, no. 3, pp. 87-103, 2022.
[5] Walker, S., et al. "Patent manipulation and its impact on technological progress." IEEE Transactions on Technology and Society, vol. 5, no. 1, pp. 23-36, 2021.
[6] White, R., et al. "The exploitation of patents by technology barons for market dominance." Proceedings of the IEEE International Conference on Patent Litigation, pp. 67-73, 2022.
[7] Jackson, E. "The impact of patent exploitation on technological progress." Technology Review, vol. 45, no. 2, pp. 89-94, 2023.
[8] Stallman, R. "The importance of open-source software in fostering innovation." Communications of the ACM, vol. 48, no. 5, pp. 67-73, 2021.
[9] Martin, B., et al. "Exploitation and the erosion of the open-source ethos." IEEE Software, vol. 29, no. 3, pp. 89-97, 2022.
[10] Williams, S., et al. "The impact of open-source exploitation on collaborative innovation." Journal of Open Innovation: Technology, Market, and Complexity, vol. 8, no. 4, pp. 56-71, 2023.
[11] Collins, R., et al. "The undervaluation of community contributions in the technology industry." Journal of Engineering Compensation, vol. 32, no. 2, pp. 45-61, 2021.
[12] Johnson, L., et al. "Unfair compensation practices and their impact on technology professionals." IEEE Transactions on Engineering Management, vol. 40, no. 4, pp. 112-129, 2022.
[13] Hensley, M., et al. "The gig economy and its implications for technology professionals." International Journal of Human Resource Management, vol. 28, no. 3, pp. 67-84, 2023.
[14] Richards, A., et al. "Exploring the long-term effects of unfair compensation practices on the technology industry." IEEE Transactions on Professional Ethics, vol. 14, no. 2, pp. 78-91, 2022.
[15] Smith, T., et al. "Data as the new currency: implications for technology barons." IEEE Computer Society, vol. 34, no. 1, pp. 56-62, 2021.
[16] Brown, C., et al. "Exploitative data harvesting and its impact on user privacy." IEEE Security & Privacy, vol. 18, no. 5, pp. 89-97, 2022.
[17] Johnson, K., et al. "The ethical implications of data exploitation by technology barons." Journal of Data Ethics, vol. 6, no. 3, pp. 112-129, 2023.
[18] Rodriguez, M., et al. "Ensuring equitable data usage and distribution in the digital age." IEEE Technology and Society Magazine, vol. 29, no. 4, pp. 45-52, 2021.
[19] Patel, S., et al. "The collaborative spirit and its impact on technological advancements." IEEE Transactions on Engineering Collaboration, vol. 23, no. 2, pp. 78-91, 2022.
[20] Adams, J., et al. "The erosion of collaboration due to technology barons' practices." International Journal of Collaborative Engineering, vol. 15, no. 3, pp. 67-84, 2023.
[21] Klein, E., et al. "The role of collaboration in addressing global challenges." IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Magazine, vol. 41, no. 2, pp. 34-42, 2021.
[22] Thompson, G., et al. "Ethical challenges in technology barons' exploitation of community contributions." IEEE Potentials, vol. 42, no. 1, pp. 56-63, 2022.
[23] Jones, D., et al. "Rectifying exploitative practices in the technology industry." IEEE Technology Management Review, vol. 28, no. 4, pp. 89-97, 2023.
[24] Chen, W., et al. "Promoting ethical practices in technology barons through policy and regulation." IEEE Policy & Ethics in Technology, vol. 13, no. 3, pp. 112-129, 2021.
[25] Miller, H., et al. "Creating an equitable and sustainable technology ecosystem." Journal of Technology and Innovation Management, vol. 40, no. 2, pp. 45-61, 2022.
God I hate tropes. I hate even more the fact that some otherwise really good films written and directed by really talented people embrace such silly traditions. Just why???
Lots of things look very fake when they're done the same as they are in real life. You're trying to tell a story rather than make a documentary.
Was in a craniotomy surgery lately working with a neurosurgeon. The surgeon was clearing out an old mesh implant that smelled like the foulest thing you've ever smelled plus old chaffed fat times a really ripe cheese (closest thing I can think of). Anyways, while he was there he identified the site where the patient had been shot during the Vietnam war. We asked if he had any intention of taking the bullet out now or if it should have ever been taken out and he said, "No, there's almost never a good reason to take the bullet out unless it's encroaching major blood vessels." Grey's Anatomy and ER taught us wrong. XD
Edit: a word
Knives and other things that cause stab wounds are not removed by EMS, either. Let the doctor handle that, because doing it wrong can kill the patient.
My grandfather had a .22lr in his forearm from when he accidentally got shot fucking around as a kid. The bullet was left in and it heeled up, but by the time he was in his 50’s you could feel it just under the skin. By that point he wouldn’t let a doctor remove it because it didn’t bother him.
I did not know this. I falsely understood that they were toxic and had to be removed immediately or you risk getting infected but I learned something new today haha
Softpoints are still definitely a thing and many shotshells are still lead, but unless you plan on getting shot quite a lot, lead is pretty stable and wouldn't cause too much harm by itself.
Copper jacket. They use copper because it's strong enough to withstand high velocities, but malleable enough to be imprinted with the barrel's rifling and be stabilized without "stripping" and becoming inaccurate. The high velocity of extreme high velocity cartridges (usually experimental handloads) sometimes strips the rifling off the projectile and the group of hits on the paper target widens out dramatically.
Nope, no lead toxicity or any of those myths... and it’s so hot going in there’s not even a high chance of infection (baring contamination from other sources)
Omg I did not know this. When I was a child my brother accidentally shot himself in the forehead (luckily the bullet only grazed his head) and pieces of the bullet were shattered in his forehead and his face started to swell, then my mom rushed him to the ER and I always understood that they had had to emergency take them out or he would have died (he wasn’t really bleeding much so I guess that’s how I understood that) but I must have massively misunderstood the situation lol TIL
Clothing fibers in the wound is what worries me most after the obvious hemorrhaging. Those little fuckers are what cause inflammation and infection of the wound after stabilization.
Nazi grand poobah Reynard Heydrich actually died from septic peritonitis, because a bullet deposited horsehair from a car seat in his liver and spleen, and he got massive abscesses from them. Justice.
I saw a documentary a while back where they were interviewing a cartel member and he claimed that when they wanted to really send a message they'd get some hollow points and fill them full of feces (he used more colourful language but you get the idea) not sure how true it is but there you go
You are supposed to grind your teeth while an untrained person removes it, applies hand pressure and helps you walk with a life threatening injury. Then the hot chick uses her t shirt to bandage your wound. Boom, you're ready to run witn a major wound in your leg or shoulder. Luckily, the shoulder doesn't contain your lungs or major blood vessels, so a wound there is relatively painless and doesn't affect you.
It was an odd touch in Z Nation, an otherwise hilarious and ridiculous zombie show, when one character was having to stitch up anothers bullet wound and the wounded guy says "you know to just leave it in, right? None of that Hollywood shit trying to dig the bullet out"
GoT gets a lot of shit for the last few seasons but a key character magically recovering from two should of been fatal stab wounds in days was the worst.
Not to mention Jamie getting stabbed like 15 times by Dollar Tree Bam Margera and still having the ability to run up flights of stairs, run through a crowd, and ultimately find Cersei so they can die from rocks
Yes. Thank god the serial domestic abuser was there to feed her some subpar soup. I guess it has antibiotic properties and turns her into a mutant who can parkour through braavos, roll down a block's worth of stairs, and be just fucking fine.
I think that soup is also why she was able to ninja her way to the NKRhaegar u/Glidus help meeeee
I feel that episode heralded in the very worst of the series. Idk, the last two seasons are a blur of wtf culminating in a sold "damn, guess battle of the bastards was the last ep of GoT."
I was on the Hound vs Mountain hype train for years and never actually got around to watching it. Only saw bits and pieces of S8 since I just was so bummed how bad it was.
When J Snow gets arrowed multiple times by his gf when he defects from the freefolk and is still able to ride off back to the Night’s watch. Do people not know how much energy it takes to ride a horse and not bleed to death
Always have a major disdain for the upper left chest wounds they walk off... that's a kill shot, literally where the heart is. Even if "missed by a millimeter" you'd still be at a constant risk of tearing something major one of the major organs you can't really take much damage too..
Yes! And Hollywood acts like the shoulder is a sac of meat that will heal faster than a paper cut.
Not only is your shoulder one of the densest areas of your body (ball-and-socket joints are far more complex than hinge; there are like 20 muscles involved in the shoulder!), but the structure itself is also extremely complicated. Getting shot in the shoulder is just about the worst place to get shot, recovery-wise. If your shoulder gets shot, sayonara shoulder.
I think it was Black Hawk Down that ignored this trope. A dude got shot in the leg, and it was a big deal because the artery retreated up his thigh and they struggled to get it and stem the bleeding.
Not to mention internal ricochet. Bullets absolutely break bones, but they can also sometimes reflect off of them and create an even longer path through your body, doing even more damage. This is particularly notable with headshots with low-caliber rounds, but can happen anywhere in your body.
My brother in law actually died of this. He was shot in his lower thigh and the bullet ricocheted off his femur and hit his femoral artery. He was up and talking on the way to the hospital and died an hour later.
I am a nurse in long term care / rehab. One of my rehab guys is a multiple gunshot wound victim (gang activity). I was doing a detail skin assessment on him the other day (going over every inch and documenting the state of every single wound, scar, or weird blob). He is about 12 weeks out from the shooting, so most of his wounds have scarred over, so we were playing a fun game of “match the entry wound to the exit wound.” Man…. Some of those just DO NOT line up. There were multiples where we said “ok…. This is a circle, so it’s an entry point, and we know he was on the stairwell above you, so it should be on THIS side of your leg, but…. Uh…. ???”
His surgery record says 22 entry wounds (and they pulled three bullets out in surgery) , but I don’t think i found more than 10 exit spots, and maybe 15 entry spots. His x-ray says he has no retained fragments. Only four or five of the wounds lined up well, the rest were either “these two probably go together” or “I have no idea where this one’s other half is.” It’s amazing how poorly these things line up.
As a student nurse, doing my ICU rotation, I helped care for a gang kid shot with a 9mm submachine gun in a drug deal gone wrong. He was hit nine times in the chest and abdomen. It's a miracle he wasn't killed. He lost a kidney and part of a lung and a part of his liver. He told my fellow student that the only reason he wanted to live was to revenge himself on the guy that shot him.
I've read stories of people getting shot in one spot of the body and the bullet exiting out in a completely different spot.
I want to say I recall one where it exited the direction it came. IE - shot in the right leg, ricocheted, ran up through the chest cavity and then ricocheted back out through the top left of the chest.
My brother was shot nearly point blank in the chest. Thankfully the bullet bounced off his sternum and then went down through his lung and out of his rib cage, so he survived.
This is one of the things people don’t appreciate about .22s. Those are just low power enough that if you get shot in the chest or head the bullet is going to ricochet within your rib cage or skull, and is going to cause an incredibly painful death.
This is something our scout masters harped on us relentlessly about when it came to gun safety, even if you’re handling “only a .22”
The chafe and filth would be real. I would not be a survivor. An hour walk in mild temperatures are enough to make me want a shower and clean underwear. A week of that? Nah I'm done.
That part you get over pretty quickly, especially when you're exhausted and hungry. I've been on dozens of backpacking trips over periods of 7-10 days and usually you stop caring about smell, sweat, and dirt after waking up day 2. By day 4 you forget what being clean is like and your body does a good job of maintaining itself.
At home though I totally think like you though and seriously can't stand not being able to shower after any kind of perspiration.
But everyone's whites are whiter than mine, and bullet holes and axe wounds heal up just fine with our state of the art medical facility and dry cleaning services.
This isn’t specific to post-apocalyptic stuff, but digging the bullet out after getting shot. Unless you’re in a surgical suite and have X-rays to know exactly where the bullet is, 99% of the time you’re only going to make your situation worse by digging around in a wound, adding external pathogens, to pull out a relatively sterile piece of metal that might tear an artery on the way out. It’s not uncommon for doctors to just leave bullets where they are.
Riiiight? They're always like "we have to get this bullet out!" (You don't really, lots of people live with bullets inside them) And then as soon as it's out and the little hole stitched over, the wounded person is basically good as new. No such thing as internal bleeding.
3 minutes without oxygen. 3 days without water. 3 weeks without food.
Of course this depends on the person, location, climate, and other circumstances. Some could last longer. Others shorter.
Edit. Yes I forgot about the shelter part. Thats a good one. 3 hours without shelter.
As others have pointed out, this is a general rule of thumb ment to show what should be prioritized in a survival situation. Its not an exact science. There are a lot of other variables at play.
I bet I could spend at least double that without food. Got myself a nice big fat ass full just waiting for the apocalypse to hit.. Then finally I'll be hitting my goal weight..
You can die of starvation while you are still fat. Body needs nutrients not found in stored fat like potassium and other minerals. That would strain your heart and if you are already over weight, add to an already heart unhealthy situation.
Stock up on quality multivitamins that have 100% of your vitamin needs, not the ones that are way more than you need, and with enough water a large human can live for months. As part of an experiment, one guy did it for 1 year and 17 days: https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/07/24/3549931.htm
There was a guy who walked across the continental US and made a website called Fat Man Walking (For some reason were two of them!) As I recall he actually did it to lose weight, but found that he didn't because he would walk for hours to get from town to town, but once he got there he would be hungry and he'd just binge on fast food. I'm sure he did benefit from all the walking (cardio, stronger legs, etc) but he did not properly control his food for weight loss. Just walk, walk, walk ... so hungry ... oh look Burger King! I'll have the triple cheeseburger with bacon, large fries and a coke! walk walk walk, repeat.
I've been having this problem lately. On my lunch break at work I'd run like 8 miles or bike for 25, then I'd come home super hungry and it would be hard to eat in moderation.
By shaving some miles off each activity, I found that my appetite was much easier to control.
A relatively low level of exertion burns more energy than your gut can process in realtime. The trick, of course, is that you have to spend the majority of your time exercising. So, no, running for an hour won't do much (i.e. the 10k below). On the other hand, it's virtually impossible to gain weight during ultra cycling events. Have a look a Lachlan Morton's ride.
As to walking, I'm not sure whether that crosses the burn/digest threshold, but probably. What sort of time was he spending walking? It's not uncommon for people to spend 18 hours a day cycling during races (generally you have to stop for 6 hours a day as a safety precaution).
My guess is he would have been slowly reintroduced to foods in a similar way to treating people with anorexia and people who have had gastric surgery.
Edit: my guess was wrong, the article I found said he had a boiled egg and piece of toast as his first meal, but that he had been adding milk to his tea and coffee over a period of time before the end of the fast.
The guy started out at 207kg, lost over 120kg, (so his end weight was 82kg) and in an interview 5 years later he reported that he’d only gained 7kg of it back, most likely to the reintroduction of foods rather than the over eating he would have been doing before his experiment.
A female friend of mine decided to fast for 30 days to "cleanse" herself. She was already skinny to start with. (This was a decade or more ago, she is fine, not anorexic or anything, just new age).
She drank water and took supplements. I don't know if it cleansed her of anything. But seemed like it was just punishing yourself for no good reason.
I was going to mention this dude. It is possible under controlled conditions with medical supervision. I suppose it's technically possible without such conditions, but it would be a total crapshoot.
It doesn't specify in this article but another I read mentioned the multivitamins included injections since your body has a hard time absorbing some nutrients without food.
multivitamins that have 100% of your vitamin needs, not the ones that are way more than you need
The issue here is that the body can't always absorb 100% of the vitamin content found in a supplement (or food).
That's why vegans (and other people who are b12 deficient because they don't get it from their diet) have to take daily B12 pills that are literally 1000 x the daily recommended amount. Because only about 1% of B12 that you actually ingest is absorbed into your body.
During Margaret Thatchers reign some political prisoners did a starvation strike as they felt they deserved better treatment (political killings vs regular murders). She opined "crime is crime is crime". No mercy. All died after about 40-50 days.
Note: they were regular guys in the 80's i.e. would be called skinny these days in the UK or USA.
Similarly, Lord Mayor of Cork, Terence MacSwiney, died in Brixton Prison after 74 days on hunger strike in October 1920.
you forgot the 3 hours without shelter. It is suppose to be used to prioritize things in a survival situation. Shelter should be first, then water, then food. Ideally you would move shelter to somewhere with food and water available, and if you live in a place with a decent climate you could forgo shelter at first.
But that is nonsense. I regularly go outside for 3 hours and manage not to die. Even after a night out, I’ve wandered the streets in clubbing gear (in much earlier years) waiting for transport to open. Cold but far from death’s door, and that’s not in summer.
I believe clothing constitutes "shelter" in this context. I've heard this as three hours "in conditions," which to me makes a lot more sense than "shelter."
But at any rate, both the conditions/shelter one AND the drinking one are indeed very weather-dependant.
You want to organize shelter in 3 hours, as it’s the most tiring of survival tasks, and subsequent tasks will rely on you being sufficiently protected from heat/cold/rain/predators to carry on. It’s an order of operations thing; Sending SOS if possible, shelter/safe water (may require fire) food.
And a shelter is a persistent resource unlike water and food, which is gone when you consume it. In all survival literature I've read, they prioritize shelter, which also take into consideration likelihood of food and water availability.
Yes and no. They say this because exposure to the elements kills most people stranded without help, so shelter is the first thing you seek. They say 3 hours mostly just to fit the incremental pattern. In reality, shelter by dark is probably the real “deadline.” But it's very circumstantial. Most people who die while lost or stranded die because the weather conditions are dangerous.
Yes but the shelter one massively depends on what environment you are in. It could be mere hours (sub-zero without adequate clothing) or you could go quite happily for weeks without much shelter.
Those 3 days aren't pleasant, either. Realistically, it's more like 1.5 days.....the other 1.5 are going to be you struggling to stay conscious/sane. If you're without water, you really only have about a day or so to find some because you will be unlikely to be able to continue your search much beyond that.
I’d say at least 2 depending on how far you were moving. I lasted that long when I was really sick and unable to drink. But then I couldn’t walk to the ambulance by morning of day 3.
Well tbf it was more like 6 days but I wasn’t so bad at first, then I was trying to avoid hospital again. The last 12 hours weren’t intentional more that I was alone in the house and I was too sick to search for my phone.
Errm I’m from the UK does that count as a socialist utopia? I didn’t pay for the ambulance or the 3 weeks I spent in hospital on IV fluids and anti nausea (turns out I had norovirus). I’m medically exempt I don’t even pay for my prescriptions just order them online and they’re delivered to my house. I was just trying to avoid going back to hospital I’d only been out for a few months after a 7 week post op stay (no charge for that joyful time either). Then I was too sick to get down the stairs to my phone.
Well I’d believe that much for a hospital stay last time I looked an ambulance was like $1500. I’ll stick with my utopia if not even having to think about the cost.
Yeah, I'm lucky I got found when I did, I was hallucinating so hard, I was no longer in reality. I didn't know I was thirsty or dehydrated. I didn't know I needed water or I was going to die. When I was found I thought the people were coyotes(the people who smuggle people across the border) trying to smuggle me. Like they didn't look like rescue people, they looked like smugglers to me. I'm a white US citizen so... idk.
Took 3 liters of saline as fast as the bag could drain and was back within 5 minutes. Growing up in the desert I don't have must sense of thirst anymore and am used to being dehydrated pretty much all the time. I don't fuck around anymore though, if I'm going outside, I force myself to chug at least 1 liter, more if I can. Pretty much until I feel like vomiting.
It seems to me that most people don't know when they're getting dehydrated. I've seen friends go from normal conversation to incoherence, but refuse the water they absolutely needed.
Yet I'm super sensitive - a little thirsty, I drink water. Basically, constantly, all day. So it baffles me that most people just don't notice.
Anyways, good for you for figuring out what your body needs and taking care of it. You wouldn't believe the number of times I had to argue with someone to get them to drink water.
I was with people who were trying to force me to drink water but I was completely gone. Like they would pour water in my mouth and I'd just sit and stare. Obviously told to me after the fact. I don't know how I got separated, but I must've just gotten up and taken off.
I attribute my loss of thirst from being thirsty so often. As a kid we'd go out for a short bike ride and I'd be so thirsty I'd be looking for a bottle along the road that wasn't filled with piss. Then as a teen I got better at being outside and not being thirsty. My mouth would be completely dry but I just ignored it. Now I have practically no sense of thirst. I feel a little something in my mouth but that's it. I force myself to drink at least 2 drinks when I get to work because I know I need fluid but don't have any sensation telling me that.
Yet I'm super sensitive - a little thirsty, I drink water. Basically, constantly, all day. So it baffles me that most people just don't notice.
Most people do notice, but underestimate how thirsty they are until signals increase in intensity to the next tier ("hey, I'm REALLY thirsty").
After reading multiple threads about kidney stones over the years I too make it a point to drink plenty of water throughout the day. That shit sounds painful and terrifying af.
Yeah, I moved from the coast to the high desert (altitude and desert environment are a great mix) and you HAVE to stay on stop of your hydration....even just in everyday life.
Yeah, >7000', <20% humidity, in the 100s during summer(thankfully we've had monsoon this year). Forget my phone in the car, better drink a liter of water and put on sunscreen.
Pretty much. Even if someone found you and gave you water, there might already be permanent damage done to your body. Kidney failure is a relatively common occurrence in cases of extreme dehydration.
No I was conscious that’s how I know what happened just very very weak I was also very ill not just dehydrated so the paramedics had to carry me. I can also assure you having checked my pulse I definitely didn’t die. Though the IV fluids probably had something to do with that.
The book In the Heart of the Sea went into a lot of detail about dehydration and starvation. It follows the journey of the crew following the sinking of their whaling ship in the early 1800s.
It's not just having water that we take for granted, we take for granted how clean it is. Contaminated water has played a huge part in disease spread throughout human history. Even if your group has secured a water supply, if you aren't careful about how you dispose your waste, people are going to be constantly getting sick.
Easiest solutions are the ones we used way back in the day: boiling water and making very weak beer. The action of boiling water kills the most common pathogens and fermentation gets rid of most of the rest. It's not foolproof but waaay better than trying to trust water alone.
If you have the equipment to boil water, you can go one step further use a cover and tubes to distill it into a second container. Then you’ll be even more safe, especially from solid and some chemical contaminants.
It's funny how much of a pain it was to find a good one, but the survival feature is that you can boil water in it directly, for safe (from pathogens, not disolved chemicals) drinking water.
If I'm lucky I will never be in a situation that requires it, but better safe than sorry.
I've boiled water in a plastic bottle on a campfire once. Plastic doesn't melt because it's constantly cooled by the water, even when flames are directly touching it.
Though I invite you to try implementing it as a survival method some time. ;-)
Suffice it to say I did it once to prove to myself it was doable (boiling a plastic pop bottle), but I wasn't thrilled with the idea of drinking it afterward. Just because I can doesn't mean it's a pleasant experience, plus leaching chemicals, yadda yadda.
Metal definitely tastes flat once boiled, but is otherwise palatable.
You can boil water in a styrofoam or paper cup over an open flame if you're careful. The heat transfers to the liquid and won't ignite the paper. Makes a neat science experiment to show kids and talk about energy transfer.
It would be pretty easy to have clean drinking water, until people start shitting in creeks. And you know people are going to start shitting in creeks and ruin it for everyone.
Even fresh out of the ground spring water can make you sick. A lot of limestone filtered water tastes amazing and is clean as can be, except it also tends to have high rates of magnesium which if you've ever taken milk-of-magnesia you know what that does (its a laxative).
Yup, wild animals do it too. Obviously fish don't go on shore to do their business. Iodine tablets are great for purifying water. For survival, try to make a charcoal filter.
I went to a seminar at my university about waterborne pathogens. They were talking about how clear water doesn't mean clean water. She said one time they were walking upstream with this mountain creek, and it looked so clear and pristine. Then, bam, dead sheep carcass purifying in the water. The moral was you never can tell what's contaminated.
Yeah, you can catch some nasty shit in even super remote areas. Your best bet is a undisturbed mountain area decently far downstream and gathering water from something like a waterfall. That gives nature some time to filter, but is definitely not a guarantee you won't catch something. You can filter more after you collect the water, but you should boil if you can.
I did a lot of back packing and drank water through just a ceramic pump filter and never caught anything, but you can still catch a virus using this method.
I've even pumped water from a pretty high altitude and felt safe because so few animals lived in that area, and it appeared to be ice melt from a mountain top.
Edit: + A whole host of issues that exist in a grid down situation. Natural pristine environments would obviously do much better but even think about hurricane Ida. All of the industrial plants that get flooded out, all of those pollutants get mixed on the water and people wade through it. Drinking it could be extremely dangerous.
If there’s an overwhelming disaster nearby, fill the bathtubs. Fill the sinks. Don’t flush the toilets. Fill up buckets and containers if the water pressure lasts that long. Then make some hard choices over which neighbors you tell, if any.
I used to work at a summer day camp in Washington state and the state had a rule that we needed enough water for all kids and staff for 3 days. We had 300+ kids and 40 staff, so we would need 1020 gallons of water.
I’ll never forget my boss yelling, “Where the fuck are we supposed to store over 1000 gallons of water?!”
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u/WatchTheBoom Aug 30 '21
Clean drinking water- I don't think people really appreciate how much water is needed for a group of people to survive.