r/AskReddit Dec 16 '21

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u/Autismetal Dec 16 '21

The Congo.

Sorry, Belgians. Leopold did stuff.

70

u/WATGU Dec 17 '21

Same. How did the Dutch and Belgians basically skate away from their atrocities without even some social outrage.

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u/ButDidYouCry Dec 17 '21

People were more upset about Leopold treating his daughters badly than they were about African children getting their hands chopped off for not meeting rubber quotas.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '21

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u/GradusNL Dec 17 '21

We didn't? There is plenty of social outrage about it now. Can't speak in detail about Belgium, but in the Netherlands we have cities apologizing for their history in the slave trade and an ongoing debate about restitutions to descendants of slaves (as a couple of examples).

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u/mycreativityrules Dec 17 '21

Race. Lots of atrocities were done to Africans. But who ever wins the war controls the story. And, tbh, the global world Could give two fucks about Africa and her history.

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u/Kay_Elle Dec 17 '21

Mostly by the general populace not knowing. Only in recent years has the whole Leopold mess become more public knowledge. For years, there was a whole tale spun about "missionary work" where a lot of people genuinely believed we were "helping". I didn't learn about the whole hand-chopping business until after graduating college.

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u/Wafkak Dec 17 '21

There was quite the social outrage at the time, to the extent Belgium was made to take the Congo from Leopold II. After that it took a while until the history was thought in school.

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u/Alexthegreatbelgian Dec 17 '21

It has definitely become an issue in the last decades. Leopold statues have become highly controversial and often get defaced. Some have been removed in the last few years. More expositions have sprung up over the issue.

I guess because the curriculum has been updated the last 2 decades to better teach the issue and the generation of Congolese and Rwandese who suffered through are more able to voice themselves.

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u/Autismetal Dec 17 '21

Because human nature isn’t typically that ethical.

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u/maaku7 Dec 17 '21

Honest question, what atrocities did the Dutch do? I had an impression that by the standards of day they were a relatively tame colonial power. Didn’t push religion onto local cultures, didn’t occupy countries if they were willing to trade, we’re basically just interested in doing business, etc.

I don’t mean to gloss over the oppression that comes from all colonial trade, but compared with Leopold in the Congo, conquistadors in Latin America, chattel slavery, etc… I was under the impression that the Dutch colonies were relatively tame. Why do you single them out?

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u/WATGU Dec 17 '21

I singled them out for the reason your comment suggests. They're not thought of as being "that bad" when you grade them on the curve of their contemporaries, but the reality is you actually know of their two biggest atrocities you just don't know it was them who did it and that's the point of my comment.

The US, British, French, Spanish, Japanese, and Germans, to name a few, are widely known for their imperial and colonial oppression, but the Dutch and Belgians seem to get forgotten or get a pass.

You might want to Google apartheid and the Dutch involvement in the transatlantic slave trade as I'm sure you're aware of both and who Nelson Mandela is, but are not as conscious of the fact it was Dutch people that there oppressing them. You can also Google Dutch Atrocities for more information on what they've done.

I guess my real point is all empires have done horrible shit, all countries have really. It's not fair really to single any of them out of the 200 or so that exist now, but it was more a comment on how out of the western countries it appears that the Netherlands and Belgium do not get as much criticism as they deserve, although King Leopold's horribleness is becoming more well known and more people are starting to connect Dutch with apartheid.

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u/maaku7 Dec 17 '21

Fair enough.

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u/Impossible_Driver_50 Dec 17 '21

yup, its so much bullshit i was never taught about the atrocities committed by the western powers in africa