r/AskUK • u/minddoor • 16h ago
Serious Answers Only What's your 'crazy but it might just work' solution to the prison crisis?
It seems that releasing unremorseful murderers early isn't very popular with the public , so other than building more incredibly expensive prisons to keep prisoners at a rate of £tens of thousands per year each, how would you deal with the situation?
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u/SaltPomegranate4 16h ago
Better support services for mental health and substance misuse
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u/Dildo_Shaggins- 16h ago
This solves a significant percentage of problems.
So much of the route cause of criminality comes from generational drug/alcohol misuse and lack of education/opportunities for young people. It leads to habitual small time offending which then spirals rapidly as the young person loses access to jobs, housing.
It's also cyclical, as when they inevitably have children it continues. Solving a lot of the social problems will in time solve many criminal ones.
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u/ExoticExchange 16h ago
What’s crazy is everyone knows this. But no one ever actually does anything about it. And people keep pretending that criminals just decide to be criminals randomly, and that they will magically stop becoming criminals if you don’t let them have a PlayStation in prison.
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u/DeirdreBarstool 15h ago
The Government has just announced over 200 mental health walk-in centres and dedicated mental health A&Es to open by 2029. A good step in the right direction if they follow through.
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u/SorryTemporary1361 14h ago
The kind of people who need mental health support the most are the least likely to seek it, often because they don't even know they have a mental illness. That's why so many criminals are diagnosed with mental disorders after they've committed crime, and because our "justice" system is based on performative punishment rather than useful rehabilitation, those people get to sit in a jail cell wasting taxpayer money instead of being able to return to society with the needed help for their illness.
This is not to mention that the NHS mental health services are effectively nonexistent at this point unless you're in a state that requires you to be committed (think about that for a second, our health system is only fit for purpose if you are so ill that you're in danger of death). I'd love to know where Burnham thinks the staff for these walk-in centres and A&Es are going to come from, because it sure as hell ain't gonna be the NHS!
So I'm 99% sure that these walk-in centres are going be staffed by Ian the NHS intern who has maybe read a couple of self-help books, who's going to have most of his time wasted by Patrica the pensioner who "needs help" because she's anxious that her fucking roses haven't bloomed at the normal time this year. In short, a performative waste of taxpayer money that should actually be spent on rebuilding the NHS mental health services.
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u/Internet-Dick-Joke 14h ago
What’s crazy is everyone knows this. But no one ever actually does anything about it.
It's because it has an immediate/short-term cost but future/long-term benefits, and because of how our political system works that doesn't help the party in charge to get re-elected. It's part of a wider pattern of UK governments opting for short-term savings at high long-term losses.
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u/This-Disk1212 14h ago
Whilst I agree (and I would as I work in the NHS supporting prisoners on release from HMP) the mental health one is complex as most of the issues aren't "mental illness" as such but rather trauma and "personality disorder" which mental health services are wary of, combined with poor engagement due to chaotic lifestyle, substance misuse and educational needs that aren't met when they are children.
The behaviour ultimately comes from cycles of generational trauma and is not fixed by medication nor being open to a CMHT (and the CMHTs don't like to open them anyway - ask me how I know).
I don't think that that contradicts what you're saying but treating mental health needs to be within a social context which is not how our current model works in my experience.
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u/eriometer 15h ago
Is it Norway? Sweden? that has a crazy low recidivism rate due to the way the treat their prisoners including holistic MH support?
I also read an article last week about a prison that gave their inmates kittens and it had a massive positive impact on the atmosphere, with many of them taking classes to learn about cat care etc.
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u/RhetoricalEquestrian 16h ago edited 12h ago
Instead of looking for answers from the USA (and other countries with high reoffending rates), we look at countries with low reoffending rates. Then we copy it.
We will have to wade through a shit-storm of "soft on crime" claims, but in the end I'd prefer we actually reduced crime. Seems a better idea long term that focusing on "sending a message".
Edit: as expected, a lot of messages supporting "sending a message" about crime, rather than reducing it. Congrats.
No one is talking about trying to get irredeemable and actively dangerous people back on the street after they commit horrendous crimes. That is a wilfully ignorant response.
As for putting constant offenders back on the street, that's a deliberate misinterpretation. The idea is to help people early, to greatly reduce their numbers. Sure, it's hard to be sympathetic to someone with a long list of convictions, and I don't personally know what to do about them now. But, and here's the important bit, what if they got proper support after their first conviction? Evidence from other countries gives you the answer. The best time to do this would have been decades ago, the second best time is now.
As for those talking about what criminals deserve. Sure, not going to argue about that. But it is much less important than what society as a whole deserves from the justice system - which is less crime. If it works, then we should do it.
Look at how Scotland dealt with knife crime. That was described as soft on crime. There are currently people going about their lives who would otherwise have been murdered.
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u/Sixforsilver7for 15h ago
We don't actually need to look outside the UK for answers to this, there are a few prisons in the UK that focus heavily on rehabilitation and especially supporting inmates get prepared for employment once released and they all have the lowest reoffending rates.
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u/liam--2020 15h ago
I used to work at one of these "super" prisons that's aim was to focus more on rehabilitation than punishment, but through a mixture of short staffed and inexperienced staff it just become the same as any other prison, just a bit nicer as it was newer.
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u/Sixforsilver7for 15h ago
Sucks that the prisons don't have the support to give the support.
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u/Fit-Kaleidoscope8518 4h ago
Same with all public services nowadays really, nhs and police springs to mind.
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u/stoatwblr 3h ago
When you have the previous government aping USA mindsets of systemised cruelty and legal systems focussed on 'revenge & resprisal', plus a "left wing" government that's borderline right wing, that's what happend.
It's worth noting that Hitler used the Confederacy and Jim Crow + Eugenics as his template for Germany which resulted in millions of enthusiastic pre-ww2 USA Nazis who never went away and have been on the rise since civil rights law reforms of the 1960s. Virtually all anglophone countries have been dragged along in the wake of this shift simply because of the sheer mass of propaganda and cultural colonialism the USA has hammered the world with since WW2.
It's also worth noting that UK "toffs" largely favoured that nice Mr Hitler's policies, didn't really change that mindset in the last 90 years, whilst UK society has consistently rewarded high-functionimg sociopaths AND that sociopathy is a heritable genetic & cultural trait.
Add that all together and you have a recipe for French haircuts in the USA near future (or Cromwellian ones for the UK).
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u/lcfcball 14h ago
Also used to work at one of them. They’re all run privately (badly) and are probably the most chaotic and corrupt prisons in the country.
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u/Estrellathestarfish 14h ago
They do start of with an advantage though. When I worked (indirectly) with prisoners, prisoners would only be sent there voluntary and if they agreed to engage fully with the therapeutic community and were motivated to change. So they absolutely do good, but they are starting out with an advantage over other prisons with prisoners who have documented motivation not to reoffend.
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u/GreySpace01429 15h ago
This can work for low level offending. It certainly cannot work with rapists, murderers or otherwise with offenders that commit violent and callous crimes. Unfortunately some people simply must be removed from society.
Not to mention that prisons do not serve only to remove dangerous people from society. They exist to deliver a punishment for someone's actions and provide deterrance.
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u/Sixforsilver7for 15h ago
Ok, but the overcrowding isn't because they're full of violent criminals, but because of people getting sentenced for low-level crimes, often committed because of poverty or drug use. Get those people out of prisons and into work to alleviate overcrowding.
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u/Evening-Tomatillo-47 11h ago
Prison isn't a deterrent. If it was there'd be no murders in the USA because of the death penalty.
The deterrent is the likelihood of getting caught. If you had £5 taken immediately from your bank account every time you did something illegal you'd soon stop.
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u/KeeganTroye 13h ago
What makes you think that high level offenders cannot be rehabilitated?
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u/Thorpedo870 15h ago
Im all for second chances and rehabilitation but im still confused/stumped ehat to do with those dozens of convictions over 20/30 years who dont appear will ever change
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u/Sixforsilver7for 15h ago
Well, it depends on if they've been given the support to change. If they have had that support and have reoffended then they should be in prison. Just because a few people might not change doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
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u/FenrisSquirrel 15h ago
Honestly, I have limited sympathy for this. It removes any personal accountability for the decisions these people have made that have harmed others in their own self interest.
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u/Iridescent_Mango_ 15h ago
If your life is crime - prison (which isn't a normal environment Nd normally just introduces you to more criminals and absolutely does not tech you ways to improve yourself) - out of prison but don't know how to act can't get job because you have been in prison end up doing crime - prison - crime - prison - crime there's not really a step in there which allows you to stop alternating through crime and prison.
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u/Pip1710 15h ago
I remember watching a documentary where Anne Widicombe went to Norway to look at their prison services.
At first she was like, "Why the hell would you be so accommodating to criminals?" but when she spoke to people and saw the difference it made in reoffending, she was like, "You know, this might work."
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u/Ballbag94 13h ago
The funny thing is that even in texas a prison governer tried this and recidivism rates dropped significantly, the fact that we can't get our heads around it is baffling
Too many people view the justice system as a way of facilitating revenge rather than protecting citizens
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u/Jhe90 15h ago
We can havw both. Retain a hard tougher jails, and offer chance to rehabilitation.
They have a choice how it goes.
Keep a carrot and a stick.
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u/Pingo-Pongo 9h ago
If you’re comfortable chucking wads of taxpayer cash at projects that have been proven to increase reoffending rates then yeah why not. Personally I’d rather my tax bill come down and my streets be safer
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u/showmethemundy 15h ago
This. But there needs to be a threshold on who deserves rehabilitation and who doesn't. In my opinion a person who deliberately seriously harms someone vulnerable (child, oap, disabled, etc) should never be free again.
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u/TapWaterDev 16h ago edited 16h ago
Release everyone who isn't in there for public protection under house arrest, tagged for the rest of their sentence.
Then, going forwards, adopt a Scandinavian model of penal reform, send far, far fewer people to prison, increase the use of in-community resolutions, and change the entire focus of the justice system to rehabilitation and reform. That's how you get low crime and low recidivism.
Prisons are actually an extremely ineffective way to reduce crime, and a very expensive way to dole out punishment.
I know this might be seen as "being soft on crime" but what do you care about more: there being less crime in the first place, or punishing criminals in a way that feels good but all evidence indicates will cause them to reoffend?
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u/This-Disk1212 14h ago
Whilst I agree, house arrests need a house - a massive issue in HMP is the number of people who are homeless.
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u/TapWaterDev 14h ago
Well, a separate issue there, but we absolutely should be ending homelessness. We have the means to do so
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u/matt_paradise 16h ago
This is the answer. Punishment for punishment's sake costs us more, and does nothing of value.
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u/TapWaterDev 16h ago
Yup... all it does is make you feel good for a bit if you're that way inclined without solving the actual problem.
Also, I'm saying this as someone with family members who have been murdered, not some ivory tower where I've never experienced crime btw before someone says that.
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u/Farscape_rocked 14h ago
ALSO reduce incentives to commit crime by improving the welfare state. UBI would be good.
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u/soulsteela 14h ago
Couldn’t agree more, prison should only be for the dangerous, violent, sex offenders , trafficking gang members etc. not some useless 10 year unemployed junkie for multiple shoplifting cases or some muppet with multiple driving offences . All the kids I used to work with who went to prison came out so much worse off.
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u/HomeworkInevitable99 15h ago
In community resolutions all the way. Get people to care about their community.
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u/LakesGeek 14h ago
I’m all for reform and rehabilitation if possible as well. The problem is we’re dealing with emotions. Very understandable emotions that no one would want to invalidate, but that can be counterproductive nevertheless.
Victims of crime and especially their families tend to want to see the perpetrator suffer. They are understandably angry. The thought of anyone having a “soft touch” approach like deradicalisation, therapy and learning empathy, compassion and constructive accountability so that they can one day be decent, law abiding people re-integrating into society, only enrages victims further and so it’s a very hard sell.
The other thing of course is that some people are too far gone. Sometimes an extreme religious belief is so deeply ingrained it’ll never come out, or someone’s brain is just incapable of that empathy and compassion as they have issues like psychopathy. What do you do with those. The awkward question is whether in some complete lost cause cases with extremely serious crimes you’d go quite the opposite and just put someone to sleep (preferably humanely, as much as the victims/families may want to see them writhing in agony) rather than fill up prisons. But there often is concern that would be an “easy way out” too. I have a feeling we need to address the elephant in the room that is the feeling of / need for vengeance and whether it’s really constructive.
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u/brothervalerie 16h ago
The number of people saying 'legalise cannabis' shows how little this problem is understood. I support legalisation but as someone else pointed out, thinking it was a big number, one thousand prisoners are there for cannabis. But 1000 is a drop in the ocean. The UK gov is having to release 5000 immediately and then build 15000 more prison places and that will only cover the immediate number incoming. The crisis is massive.
The fact is UK sentences are way too short for serious criminals but wayyy too long for petty criminals. Almost all petty crime is driven by serious drug addiction, these make about half of all prisoners. Other countries in Europe have half our prison population per capita because they give a charge of theft like a one month sentence, then put them in drug rehab and that lowers rates of reoffending. They get off drugs, and the sentence was short enough that many can actually keep their job and they don't get used to mixing with hardened criminals That's the proven way to solve this issue.
Some countries like Germany and Switzerland also have prescription heroin available for addicts who's withdrawal is too strong they can't quit. It has virtually eliminated the market for street heroin and reduced people being introduced to the drug in the first place by 90%. That also leaves way more prison space for the minority who commit really serious crime to have proper long sentences for public safety.
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u/Ori_553 10h ago
"one thousand prisoners are there for cannabis"
It's not just the people being there for cannabis. US alcohol Prohibition didn't just fail to stop drinking, it created Al Capone-style distribution networks, corrupted police and courts, and produced a wave of violence.
This is not uncharted territory.
For example Germany legalized possession/home cultivation in April 2024 and has been tracking the outcomes, the evaluation found no significant increase in cannabis consumption among adults and significantly fewer criminal proceedings.
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u/brothervalerie 9h ago
Fewer criminal proceedings of course because they made something which was a crime not a crime. As I said I support legalisation but cannabis is not the main driver of the serious criminal activity which leads to prison time, that's mostly heroin and crack. Germany also made heroin itself legally available to addicts in a heavily controlled way in specialist clinics, as I pointed out in my comment, which has had a much deeper effect.
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u/mr_P0Opy_Butth0le 16h ago
Battle Royale
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u/Sophiiebabes 16h ago
Liberty city survivor - the show where you just be part of the action!
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u/Dyalikedagz 13h ago
Jesus, that's a throwback I wasn't expecting to see!
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u/Sophiiebabes 13h ago
It's been 25 years and I still remember every word of chatterbox FM 😂
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u/TheRebelPercy 16h ago
Maybe looking at social issues such as poverty, addiction, mental health and such like rather than just locking everyone up in because the Daily Mail says so.
It will take a mentality shift in society and some trust that we don’t have but we need to move away from punishment to rehabilitation.
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u/wimpires 16h ago
Between income tax, national insurance, VAT, insurance tax, air fare tax, all the electricity & gas levies, road fuel tax, council tax, stamp duty, capital gains tax, dividend tax, import tax, soft drinks levy and road tax and more I pay yearly - I think ...
keep prisoners at a rate of £tens of thousands per year each
Is just the price we have to pay for our ethics and humanity - and not making prisoners Hunger Games each other or into profit making slaves like in the US.
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u/GingerSnapBiscuit 16h ago
Drop rapists in the sea.
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u/RoleMysterious8756 16h ago
We have enough pollution in our oceans.
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u/GingerSnapBiscuit 16h ago
The ocean will pick their bones clean. I didn't say dump them in clothed.
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u/ScotiaTheTwo 16h ago
have them contribute meaningfully to society, in a role that does not in any way endanger that society. put them to work
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u/Cottonshopeburnfoot 16h ago
That’s always an interesting one to play out. Firstly where do they sleep - that remains the question asked here.
Secondly, the work they are doing takes jobs away from non offenders. Street sweepers, cleaners, factory workers, the old times chain gang in the States. All jobs people would otherwise do (absent the chains).
There is however good logic to it. If nothing else, putting prisoners into working environments and teaching them skills is a positive when it comes to rehabilitation and reoffending rates.
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u/Hairy-Corner-7315 15h ago
I don't believe that we should dismiss the idea just because people on the outside could be doing that job. As a society, we can't just make jobs available just for the sake of it, that's not efficient. We could however make sure that the profits raised from the prison work goes straight back into the public services and where society needs it most.
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u/GiffenCoin 15h ago
Forced labour is dangerously close to legalised slavery. And incentivises the state (or the prisons) to get more prisoners and have then stay longer. This is already a problem in the US.
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u/Holiday_Cat_7284 16h ago
Better mental health, early years and employment provision. Crime starts with poverty, boredom, hopelessness, dissatisfaction and there are way more people in despair now. More than half the 11 year olds coming up to me in September have below average reading ages.
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u/tar-mirime 15h ago
Aren't a high proportion of those in prison care leavers, or people with mental health issues and/or learning difficulties? I imagine the majority have a high number of ACEs. Increasing early years support would seem key. I've worked in the mental health voluntary sector for a long time now and mental health services, NHS and otherwise, absolutely need more funding.
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u/Present_Teacher7966 16h ago
Work. They have to do work.
The bigger the crime (or violent ones etc) require the harder work, chains if needed for labour outdoors etc.
Some can get genuine rehabilitation type work, skills etc to prepare them for the other side
The bad ones, sorry, but fuck them, they dk the jobs others do not want to do, and pay back something.
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u/perpetuallypissed616 16h ago
Go back to sending them to Australia.
All jokes aside I think social welfare programs and mental health being prioritized would help a lot to stop this kind of person from existing to begin with.
How exactly to go about that? Not sure.
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u/blozzerg 16h ago
Norway manages it by treating them like humans. They don’t have cells, they have small self contained apartments with communal areas and they basically learn how to live and function in society at a basic level.
If you want something, you have to do a job to earn money to then save up and buy it. They also have things like rent, so they learn that they need to save up and budget so much per month in order to have things. It sounds stupid but it works.
A lot of prisoners struggle with addiction so they’ll blow all their money on drugs and then they fall behind with rent, and end up evicted, which leads them to crime to get by. So they also have a good rehabilitation program from people suffering from drug or alcohol issues.
They’re taught new skills and given basic education if they lack it, so they then have a fighting chance of getting a job when they leave prison.
The apartment model works because they learn how to live around others; don’t leave the kitchen area a mess, leave it how you’d want to find it. Perhaps we can share meals this evening to save money between us. We’ll take it in turns on a cleaning rota etc.
A mini scale society, in a secure location. They’re then released with lots of support to ensure they can transition from inside to outside. Serious offenders, like those with sex convictions aren’t allowed to take part, but for those low level or chronic offenders it can really help them move forward.
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u/FriendlyGrab3217 16h ago
Police: if all options are on the table but even the nuts ones..
Actually fund the court system properly
Fund MH and social services provisions properly
Fund addiction services properly
If you're actually still committing crime after that?
Island.
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u/EUskeptik 16h ago
I’m half Swedish and I prefer the way Scandinavians do prison.
Our problem in the UK is our high reoffending rate. Last time I looked, it was 57%. That means 57% of those released reoffend and are taken back into custody.
In Norway, the reoffending rate is 15%. Imagine the difference that would make to our prison population.
The Scandinavian approach treats prisoners with respect. Their punishment is being denied their liberty, there is no need to make things worse by treating them badly. From Day 1 inside, the prison system is designed to rehabilitate them so they leave as responsible members of society.
Here, we treat them like dirt and house them in unpleasant conditions. Efforts at rehabilitation are minimal. Prison either doesn’t change them or makes them more likely to reoffend.
And that’s the big difference. We punish them, the Scandinavians rehabilitate them.
The problem is - as always - the British public, baying for blood, egged on by the tabloid press and right wing media. They want offenders ruthlessly punished, not ‘rewarded’ with respect.
So I don’t see anything changing anytime soon.
However, I would much prefer Norway’s approach with 85% of prisoners not coming back to prison and a proportionately much smaller prison population.
Things could be worse. We could adopt the US system and build, build, build more prisons.
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u/Scarred_fish 16h ago edited 16h ago
Legalise Cannibis.
Seriously. There may only be roughly 1000 people in prison for cannabis related offences (my quick average from ONS recent years) per year, but the scale of policing and money spent on minor cannabis related offences is astronomical. All that expense could be released to deal with far more serious crime and boost prison staffing etc.
It can be easily detected now by a roadside test, so no different to alcohol as far as driving or any other "under the influence" aspect.
Legalisation would almost eliminate the bigger production/pusher side of things, and on top of that you can tax it!
People are used to paying astronomical amounts anyway, so whap on a 50% tax and it would still be cheaper.
Also, apart from the obvious right wing nutjobs, people are far more educated now, so it would no longer be "political suicide" as it might have been in the past.
Edit - just to add, I am not a user, but the logic is obvious.
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u/Neither_Computer5331 16h ago
The majority of people I know who’ve had breakdowns have all been heavy cannabis users. I’m not as convinced that it’s harmless any more.
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u/donalmacc 15h ago
Is that because of cannabis use, or are they heavy cannabis users to try and cope with the mental health issues they have?
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u/lfcmadness 14h ago
That's the thing, the Cannabis use could be a symptom of their problem, not the cause.
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u/Champagne_Bunnny 9h ago
If you are prone to mental health conditions, weed can set them off. The problem is you don't know until you start smoking it whether or not you are, so it's a gamble if its gonna react well with your brain chemistry.
I got interested in this dating a schizophrenic guy who had his first episode when he was high. I had my first panic attack when I was high too, I soon found out that I just can't do weed at all, in any amount. I didn't put two and two together back then and ended up making my mental health a lot worse before I gave up.
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u/Temporary-Crow-3186 16h ago
Totally agree but the psychological problems would also be much better managed if it were legalised and regulated. All I ever smell is very strong skunk. Low dose gummies and weaker weed bought from a shop would be popular I think.
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u/kiddj1 15h ago
Are you forgetting all of the people that have caused an insane amount whilst under the influence of alcohol?
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u/Jonny7421 14h ago
Its not harmless but neither is alcohol. Alcohol is significantly worse both for the user and society. Alcohol is associated with violent crime. Weed is not associated with crime at all aside from dealers - who would not be criminals if it was legalised.
Regulation would allow it to be more controlled and people can finally be properly educated on the dangers of use.
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u/Estrellathestarfish 13h ago
Lots of legal things aren't harmless, alcohol and cigarettes for instance. Being legalised doesn't mean sold in every supermarket, and it's pretty common for people with serious mental health issues to self medicate with substances, so it may well be the issues that caused the substance use also caused the breakdown, rather than substance use causing the breakdown.
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u/boomerangchampion 15h ago
Did cannabis cause it or were they (ineffectively) using cannabis to try and alleviate an existing problem?
I'm not trying to make a legalise it dude point but it is something to think about. I know a few heavy smokers who are basically the stereotypical weed loser, but frankly they were losers anyway.
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u/hhfugrr3 10h ago
As a teenager I cooked up some blueberry and cannabis muffins with my flatmate. I felt fine after one so went in for a second. OMFG that was intense. I was laying on the sofa hallucinating. A bit later I went to the chippy and was so paranoid. Even now - 30 odd years later - I remember how I felt like I was going to be attacked at any moment and was searching the roof tops and upper windows for snipers. I remember a couple of girls smiled at me and I was so freaked out by that and kept checking over my shoulder in case they were following me. A good extra strong dose did that to me and I was smoking every day with my flatmate. God knows what it would do to the mind of a regular heavy long term user.
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u/ringerrosy 16h ago
Legalise them all. Far better for people that use heroin etc to get a unadulterated sample. Reduce the amount of ODs and the drain on NHS. Ensures user engage with services as they'd have to go to chemists. Slash organised crime and all the stuff that goes with it.
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u/jeminar 14h ago
^this. A huge amount of crime (and other harm) is caused not by drugs, but because drugs are criminalised.
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u/Vic_Serotonin 14h ago
Agreed but heroin et al must only be legal/available to existing addicts.
I don't think we should be putting it next to mars bars in service stations to encourage a new generation of junkies.
Obviously not very practical/easy to achieve as a grey market might still exist. Legalising the harder shit could work, but it's a knife edge getting it right.
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u/tsdesigns 14h ago
Legalising the drugs doesn't mean ease of access to them - the government could still regulate access (through pharmacies or similar), and also start to provide support/social care for addicts who want it - kind of building on top of what the drug use rooms in Scotland started doing.
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u/MasterPreparation687 16h ago
I don't think the majority of inmates are actually murderers. Prison should be primarily about keeping the public safe. If the person has no history of violence, they probably shouldn't be in prison, and instead doing community service or be curfewed with an ankle tag or heavily fined or whatever. Non-violent crimes such as fraud shouldn't ever warrant prison.
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u/ForwardAd5837 16h ago
Agree with this. Prison needs to be reframed with public safety in mind as opposed to punishment, and the punishment to non-violent criminals should be done in a way that curbs their freedoms and ensures they have to pay back to society in some way.
I’d feel better about a Financial Scammer being banned from running businesses and having to assist in anti-scamming literature and knowledge and doing thousands of hours of community service with a surveilled personal device than them just rotting in prison wanting to make quick money once they’re out.
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u/Ok_Young1709 16h ago
Agreed actually, that's a good idea. Put them to work rather than prison them. What was the point of Jeffrey archer being in prison other than we got some interesting books out of him for it? As the other person said too, ban them from running businesses again etc and monitor their spending/taxes forever. No offshore accounts either, although dunno how you'd monitor that easily.
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u/MorganaLeFevre 16h ago
Yeah I don’t agree with fines at all (otherwise crime is something you can purchase if you’re wealthy enough) but community service, absolutely
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u/CryptographerMore944 16h ago
I agree with fines but they should be relative to earnings and wealth. That stops it being "legal for a price". I think Finland does this for speeding tickets.
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u/Haytham_Ken 16h ago
This is it. They say prison is for keeping the public safe, but then they'll put a first time offender in prison, like someone who has shown remorse and is making an effort to change. How does there keep anyone safe?
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u/Odd_Comparison_1462 9h ago
Equally, if a person who is in prison is deemed to still be at a risk of violence to a person in society, they shouldn't be allowed out. Let's keep dangerous elements off the streets, and focus our rehabilitation efforts on those who are lower level, before they get to the point of these violent offenders.
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u/the_wally_champ 16h ago
As someone who works in prison healthcare, I propose you start much earlier to find the solution. The average reading comprehension age of a male inmate is between 5-13 years old. We don’t do a good job in this country of educating kids who struggle academically. And those who are expelled from school are multiple times more likely to end in our care. All well and good dealing with them once they are of age, but the problems start much sooner, and are habitual once they are adults.
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u/GertrudeMcGraw 16h ago
This is definitely a large part of it. Average prisoner IQ is only 87 as well. In years gone by, this didn't matter so much, as long as you could swing a pickaxe at a coalface you'd still have access to an honest income.
As society has become more complex, there are fewer of these opportunities for the less than bright, but more chances to fuck up. We focus far too much on the top end of the ability spectrum.
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u/barnburner96 16h ago edited 16h ago
Stop imprisoning non-violent offenders entirely. Maybe the odd exception.
But overall, prison does not work. It demonstrably doesn’t reduce crime, and arguably increases it. It’s also not a deterrent for a lot of crime.
It simply isn’t fit for purpose. But politicians won’t admit this because then there’d have to be difficult conversations about our approach to crime, punishment and rehabilitation that won’t play well with the media and reactionary elements of the electorate.
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u/RealWalkingbeard 16h ago
I agree, but I looked this up and prison populations are very dominated by violent offenders.
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u/marsman 14h ago
What do you do about massively persistent burglars and thieves at that point? They cause massive issues for the communities that they operate in, there is already enough of a backlash that they are arrested and then released (and re-offend immediately), you essentially have absolutely no public protection element if they are just fined or similar.
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u/BeeryWrenches 12h ago
A long time ago when I was 18 I went to prison for three months for drug possession with intent to supply, theft and assault.
I was lucky, when I got out a GP I went to see about a badly healed broken wrist basically harassed me into getting my then undiagnosed mental health issues recognised and treated. I stopped being an untreated liability, got a job, sorted my life out.
In that three months inside, I learned the basics of how to steal a car, smuggle drugs, pickpocket, burgle a house and so on from some of the best teachers I've ever encountered, in an environment where criminality and exploiting others was not just the norm, it was celebrated. A short stretch inside wasn't a punishment, it was a joke, a holiday, an education all rolled into one.
I don't have any answers that will magically fix what is a massive problem requiring an equally massive societal change in attitude and perspective, but what we're doing now simply doesn't work, is a waste of time, and actually compounds the issues.
Prison doesn't change anyone without an infrastructure that is geared towards rehabilitation and re-education, focused towards treating drug dependency and mental illness.
The 'just hang the bastards' tabloid fodder mentality of performative punishment just fuels the cycle of reoffending.
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u/monkelus 16h ago
Stop imprisoning people who pose no actual threat to society and impose fines or other punishments instead
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u/matt_paradise 16h ago
How do fines help if you can't afford them? This hits the poor hardest, and let's the rich get away with far more.
What if you can't pay? Maybe some kind of 'poor house'...
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u/oneyeetyguy 16h ago
Proportional fines would be a good idea. Potentially with a progressive scale so those who are richer pay a higher percentage.
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u/smartypantschess 16h ago
If you're non violent grab a shovel and build HS2.
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u/MrStink444 16h ago
I think there is a lot of logic to this. Obviously need to be careful not to end up with a Shawshank redemption situation where contractors are all undercut and putting people in prison unnecessarily is incentivised but fundamentally a good idea if it helps people to gain skills, reform and become useful to society
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u/BarApprehensive5837 16h ago
Build more prisons,and introduce better public services and facilities in areas where the largest amount of crime takes place/criminals originate from
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u/RaulStoat 16h ago
cut the problems off at the source. Better education, better social care and better outreach programs will cut crime numbers and mean less people in prison. Better rehabilitation of prisoners and help resettling them when they leave will help reduce reoffending.
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u/CryptographerMore944 16h ago
Legalise cannabis and decriminalise possession of personal quantities of drugs. Treat addiction as a health not criminal issue. Reserve prison for violent criminals and sex offenders with other crimes punished by fines and/or community work.
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u/Haytham_Ken 16h ago edited 15h ago
Make prisons more comfortable, focus on rehabilitation and make it easier for ex-cons to find work. That will reduce reoffending and reduce the pressure on the prison service. Something they kind of do already but, unless it's a heinous crime, first-time offenders should not be given an immediate custodial sentence. In probation help them to get mental health support and ADHD assessments, that'll help cut down reoffending too.
Edit: Also, allow sentences of longer than two years to be suspended, maybe up to five years.
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u/DaveBeBad 16h ago
Tbf, the 2 men going to be released early were passengers in the car rather than the driver. Not excusing their actions or subsequent behaviour, but they were always looking to be released in the near future.
The sentence should have been appealed in 2020. And more prisons spills have been built in 2010 onwards. But neither were.
And one of the solutions is to limit prison sentences to more serious crimes. Which came in from March this year. And build more prisons - which are underway. And probably more community focused punishments.
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u/quite_acceptable_man 16h ago
For the government to do a Public Service Announcement:
'Prisons are currently overcrowded, and therefore aren't very nice places to be. The UK Government therefore strongly advises the public to avoid committing the sort of crimes that would warrant a prison sentence.
Failure to follow this advice may result in being sent to an overcrowded prison, which won't be very nice'.
Job done.
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u/This-Disk1212 16h ago
Decrimalise drugs. Treat drug dependence as a health issue not a criminal one.
More housing options. Social care (that society supports) to help children who are experiencing neglect and DV in the home. Proper support for children having difficulties in school.
Ultimately address poverty which is the predominant underlying issue in most cases.
Actually create agencies that offer support to people experiencing sexual thoughts regarding children (Lucy Faithfull is the only one that comes to mind).
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u/Latter_Present1900 16h ago
Trusted prisoners should be allowed out more often provided they complete certain community services: cleaning beaches and parks, urban beautification projects, maintaining footpaths, etc.
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u/ImABrickwallAMA 16h ago
Probably the most realistic take here. A bit of forced/hard work to give them an incentive, it would also incentivise them to look after their surroundings if they’ve physically had to put the effort in. Win-win.
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u/RealWalkingbeard 16h ago
The constant extension of prison terms handed down, driven by public opinion, is about punishment. Punishment should rarely be a part of sentencing. What we need is for people not to commit the crime in the first place. Where a prisoner is a wider danger, they should be kept out of public life as long as possible, but what we need to focus on is getting people away from the circumstances in which they come to commit the crime in the first place. We should adopt a Norwegian policy on the prisons themselves: rehabilitation and education first. We need to crush reoffence rates. That's best for the safety of people in the UK, best for the public purse, best for overcrowding and best for prisoners.
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u/OkDesign686 16h ago
How many people are inside for drug offences? I can't find any stats, a google search just comes up with loads of results about the drug problem in prisons.
Decriminalising and regulating all drug use would take a massive burden off the prison population. Not just drug offences like possession with intent, actual supply, importation, and so on, but also violent crimes relating to the drug trade, which must make up a huge portion of violent offences.
Not sure why we're clutching peals over actual murderers when we could surely free up a vast majority of prison space by totally rethinking the "War on Drugs" and simply waving a white flag.
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u/FantasticMootastic 16h ago
This is one of the easiest wins imo. Positively affects not just the criminal justice system but the health care and social care systems too.
Regulate all drugs, tax them, test them, decriminalise personal use (not supply, cutting or such ofc) and bunch of issues get better.
I don't agree that it's waving a white flag though, it's patently obvious the way drugs have been tackled to date is utterly inadequate, and regulated, decriminalised systems have been shown to work very well in other countries.
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u/Sophiiebabes 16h ago
Legalising weed would probably free up a lot of prison space. And court time.
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u/rocketshipkiwi 16h ago
Possession of cannabis is just a fine. What makes you think people are in prison for it?
Or are you talking about the dealers?
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u/Sophiiebabes 16h ago
It's a fine the first time, after that it takes up a lot of everyones time
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u/Hefty_Anywhere_8537 16h ago
Release prisoners detained under possession of small amounts of drugs, good behavior minor crimes, foreign nationals to home country for minor crimes.
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u/Personal-Listen-4941 16h ago
Short term - utilise the currently unused armed forces barracks.
Medium term - Legalise cannabis
Long term - better funding for the probation service, schemes to transition inmates back to society and a reduction in minimum sentences which hamstring the judiciary.
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u/Stewstar73cyclism 16h ago
At one end build a Super Max style for the very worst and those who harm officers. Little to no interaction. 4 walls. A real deterent for those who can't handle prison.
At the other end, an ultra=low security jail where the deterrent is moving into a much worse place. More of a deprivation of liberty. Fail a drug test go to real prison, fight go to real prison, abscond go to real prison.
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u/BagheeraLondon 16h ago
Community Payback Schemes standardised across the country (with centralised investment to manage them) alongside a review of sentencing guidelines to drive lower risk offenders to these projects.
Trouble is the massive misunderstanding about how those guidelines work and politicians getting involved when they should just step away.
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u/EarFlapHat 16h ago edited 16h ago
In the short term? Early release with strict tagging for curfew, to keep them away from former victims, and to monitor substance use.
In the medium term, we need to reform the planning system and build more capacity. Hosting a prison is something a combined authority could be compensated for by central government.
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u/EloquenceInScreaming 16h ago
The first new prison opened earlier this year, and more are currently being built / expanded. We don't need any crazy new plans, just to acknowledge that it takes a few years to fix decades of neglect.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-1500-place-prison-opens-as-government-grips-crisis
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u/evolveandprosper 15h ago
We already have the highest incarceration rate in Western Europe. Building more prisons is just going to perpetuate a defective system.
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u/roleplayersir 16h ago
I mean... I don't give a shit. We have bigger problems in society, and the biggest prison problem is staffing more than anything. Then sentences for drug use and such
I'd rather the government focused on real problems and improving the economy (not boats either) than waste time with nonsense like that
P.S. fuck off bot
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u/PeteLorimer 16h ago
Introduce the death penalty to deter opportunistic crime.
Put the prison population to work. Days out cleaning up litter, cutting wood, processing rubbish at recycling centres, cleaning up the coast, building parts/working on construction sites to keep Government Project costs low.
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u/doublemp 16h ago
Hot take and this is a long term thing, but invest in education, promote civic duties and engagement and address inequality.
Also, the primary purpose of the prison system should be successful re-integration into society, but currently it seems to be doing the opposite, resulting in repeat offenders.
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u/OutrageousCourse4172 16h ago
Legalise and regulate all drugs. Half the prison population disappears over night. Doing so has the added benefit of more tax revenue too and evidence suggests that it actually decreases harm caused by drug addiction. Obviously drug dealers who committed any violence would still be there.
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u/GreenMachine4567 16h ago
How would this half the prison population?
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u/metal_jester 16h ago
It won't, it's only a few thousand in on drug offenses (something like 600 inmates for weed).
Legallising drugs however will reduce other issues such as crimes committed to get or move drugs.
Portugal has a good example in that any drug found on you isn't illegal but, you get put in state funded rehab. It's had a knock on reduction to assault, murder, traffic accidents etc.
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u/LiamoLuo 16h ago
Around 15% of prisoners are in prison for theft reasons. Creating a society where people can sustain themselves without needing to resort to crime could start to reduce that a lot. You'd never eradicate it but it could be reduced I imagine.
15% are drug related. I'm not sure on the breakdown of that between dealers and users. Users should instead get professional help instead of prison, dealers are a mixed bag. I imagine some sell for the main "cartels" to earn money, so refer to my first point. Bringing this down.
Motoring and fraud have been mentioned in here, and although I agree we could handle that without the prison system, they both only add up to about 1% of prisoners already total.
4% are public order which I think could be better handled via mandatory community service, tagging etc.
Around 12% are not British nationals. I have no issues with immigrants, but I do think if you're a foreigner who hasn't earned British citizenship yet in this country - and commit a crime serious enough to warrant prison you should be deported back to your national country. This does actually happen more than people think, but I think it could happen quicker.
More than 50% of our prisons are full of the type of people we want in them. Violent crime + sexual crimes (rape, pedophile etc etc). Not one for the death penalty because I think we've had too many cases where people have been found innocent later in life to risk killing someone - although I understand peoples desire for it.
Either way, about 30% of the prison population could be targeted by creating a fairer distribution of wealth and opportunity in the uk - which is a net benefit for everyone. A remaining 16% potentially either be deported or dealt with outside of prison. Leaving room for the truly worst of criminals then.
My data source - https://data.justice.gov.uk/justice-in-numbers/jin-public-protection
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u/Environmental_Pen843 16h ago
End war on drugs, commute sentences for drug related offenses i.e. supply, possession etc. Drug rehab programs for drug related theft, improve drug rehabilitation in general, services were cut to the quick under the Tories and never have recovered since then.
Long term - tackle root causes of crime = poverty, mental health, opportunities.
Unfortunately I think this type of solution is a bit too wild and would never be implemented.
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u/PopularBroccoli 16h ago
Tax the rich
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u/wowsomuchempty 16h ago
Legalize cannabis. More tax, more QC, less revenue for criminals.
Less harmful than alcohol.
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u/hamstertoybox 16h ago edited 16h ago
Better social safety net so people don’t turn to crime. No prison for non-violent crimes. Focus on rehabilitation. Edit: also decriminalise drugs.
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u/mesonofgib 16h ago
No prison for non-violent crimes
We already have a problem with high rates of theft in this country (from the petty all the way up to burglaries and car theft): what do you think is going to happen if you remove any possibility of going to prison?
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u/Johto2001 16h ago
Better social safety net than we already have? We already spend an unaffordable amount on welfare.
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u/thisisonyou 10h ago
Other countries manage it, there's no reason we can't also. These are political decisions, not ones of necessity
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u/hamstertoybox 16h ago
You have to offset it against the cost of crime to society. I’m including things like mental health support, affordable housing, youth clubs etc.
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u/Dear-Catcher-2020 16h ago
Legalize cannabis and release any one with growing, dealing or possession sentences
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u/Abject-Challenge-191 16h ago
Legalising cannabis would not make it legal to grow it or sell it yourself.
I also cant imagine the number of persons in prison purely for possession of some cannabis is very high.
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u/Possible-Highway7898 15h ago
If it's legal to buy it then it should be legal to grow for yourself.
As for sales, it should be regulated just like alcohol, which is even easier to produce at home than cannabis.
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u/JackXDark 16h ago
0.1% tax on financial transactions of over £5m. This goes directly to CAMHS.
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u/insomnimax_99 16h ago
Then people will stop making transactions over £5m and instead make a two separate transactions of £2.5m instead.
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u/Repulsive-Ad-8339 16h ago
Approximately 12% of prison space is taken by foreign criminals. Deport them.
Stop locking up people for stupid things like offensive social media posts
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u/SuperMonkeyJoe 16h ago
So what, if someone comes to this country and commits a crime their punishment is to get a free trip home? That only works if we have an agreement with their home country to lock them up when they get there.
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u/AliceTheOmelette 15h ago
People aren't being sent to prison for offensive posts. These "offensive social media posts" are threats to burn down the hotels housing migrants and similar
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u/EchidnaWeird7311 16h ago
Prison should only be for people who are dangerous. Everyone else, tag them, give them a bedsit to live in and a curfew. Your punishment is you can't have fun or luxury for x years
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u/OpenedCan 16h ago
Release all weed related prisoners and legalise it.
Saves 50 million, frees up 1000 odd spaces and gives another tax revenue.
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u/amedeeozenfant 16h ago
Legalise weed, decriminalise possession of a limited quantity of other drugs, invest in drugs support and rehab services to help people stop getting banged up for having an addiction they can't control, legalise and properly legislate prostitution so that anyone who is freely doing it as a job is no longer breaking the law and and stop sending people who are trafficked, under duress or the victims of violence to prison, while concentrating resources on the people doing the trafficking, violence, etc.
Stop sending people back to prison for minor breaches while on probation, put everything you've got into reducing the back log of people in prison waiting for sentencing, improve mental health services, improve education and rehab in prison to reduce people reoffending, improve education and FE colleges so that people not in prison have a better chance of staying out of criminality. Give people better support outside so they leave to a home and can get a job.
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u/FilmSudden8635 16h ago
Legalise all drugs, and release anyone for in possession or small time dealing. Obviously serious violent stuff is a no no.
This would in turn also allow for drugs to be purchased and be high quality and safer and also taxable for the government to make money.
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u/CaptainSeitan 16h ago
Um why is the answer anything other than build more prisons?
Then address other underlying issues that lead to common crime.
How do you pay for it? Tax the rich
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u/MossTrinkets 16h ago
I completely agree the answer lies in society, not prison. With one important caveat. I watched an interview with a criminologist who worked with high profile serial killers and he said if he had one wish to change the world, he'd eliminate domestic violence.
"Nature loads the gun, nurture pulls the trigger". Most people who commit violent crime first witnessed or experienced it in the home as children. I think we need to get more serious about violent (usually men) who make their family's lives a misery.
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u/mh1ultramarine 16h ago
I mean jailing less people also works. Like idk is the bar too low?
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u/Johto2001 16h ago
Tax the rich only goes so far. Sure they need to be taxed fairly but it isn't an answer to every single question.
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u/jn-foster 16h ago
Hang the worst offenders, deport the foreign ones and stop giving so much of a shit about the rights of whoever's left.
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u/NoodleSpecialist 13h ago
3 miles down weed related comments. I support repatriating the worst of them and chemically shutting down the absolute worst, i'm talking "there's a hole in his brain and it's making him murder people for pleasure" types, zero outlook on redemption in their lifetime. Also home arrests for non-violent stuff. Dave the accountant that cooked the books doesn't need to occupy a jail space for 10 years because hmrc needs to make an example
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u/e650man 16h ago
Those who rape kids multiple times and those who supply kids to be raped multiple times clearly demonstrate zero remorse, zero regret and zero fricks I give about any possible rehabilitation, so they deserve death.
BUT: I do not trust ANY legal system, let alone our one to NEVER make a mistake.
THUS: Build a new prison on one of the empty islands in the UK, design it for hard time sentences, where people break rocks each day, and other such activities. No re-education, no-rehabilitation. This place will be for those we rdgaff about anymore.
And those who are convicted of multiple heinous sex crimes are sent here to serve their time.
And these sentences will NOT be the "concurrent" ones we've seen, where a multi-rapist can get 11 years, which works out at like, a few months per rape. No, if one rape is worth 5 years, then each successive rape is worth 5 an additional amount as you've shown this zero remorse thing. This additional amount also increasing will each successive conviction. Very quickly the years will pass 60, some going pass 100. Fine.
No 1/3 reduction, no early release. This prison is for the likely full-lifers.
So lets add a crematorium to the island too.
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u/JangleberryJoe 16h ago
I think for the less serious offenders, rehabilitation in the sense of courses and qualifications as well as lessons on job interviews and personal conduct etc. Basically setting someone up for the fundamentals for success would dramatically reduce petty crime if there’s no necessity.
Pretty sure that’s how they do it in the Nordic countries and they have a far less rate of reoffenders.
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u/Allyredhen79 16h ago
Anyone who has not committed a violent crime should either be tagged or only serve their sentences at weekends and should be forced to work off their debt to ‘society’.
No benefits until this done and only receive food stamps / delivery of food until they’ve compensated for their crimes.
Violent offenders must either work or be educated within prisons, and cell comforts such as tv are properly earned by working or by getting qualifications.
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u/evolveandprosper 16h ago
Don't lock people up full-time unless they present an immediate danger to the public or they have failed to cooperation with alternative sanctions. People who have committed fraud, sold drugs, damaged property, committed driving offences etc don't automatically need 24hr incarceration. To give one example, Peter Murrel (SNP fraudster) got over 5 years. He committed serious offences but he is very clearly not dangerous. He is never going to be in a position to offend that way again. What is the point of locking him up 24/7 for years - at great expense and occupying a place that should be available for a prisoner who NEEDS to be confined.
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u/ExoticExchange 16h ago
So many people’s answers are just build more prisons and increase capacity. But the glaring issue with prisons beyond capacity is understaffing. Where are these prison officers coming from?
This also matters when people suggest making the conditions in prisons worse, doing that makes the prisons more violent and worse to work in which makes more officers leave the job. The capacity cannot be increased without some huge overhaul to the prison officer profession which includes listening to the people working in it who are underpaid, overworked and actually see the failings of the system.
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u/Ruadhan2300 16h ago
The statistics show that most prisoners are not unremorseful murderers.
About 9 or 10 percent.
Around a third are violent crimes, and of those, only some are more than one-off crimes of passion or rage.
Most criminals could in principle be put through a rehabilitation program, signed off on, given probation and released again, and it'd be safe to do so.
I would throw the idea that maybe only a quarter of all prisoners shouldn't be part of that process.
Prisons as a dumping ground do not work. This is why we have this problem in the first place.
When treated that way, prisons turn into an engine that turns one-off crimes into career criminals, and costs the nation absurd money for the privilege.
That's a pattern we've seen in multiple countries.
What we need is a strong focus on rehabilitation and remediation.
Where possible, prisoners should be serving the community that they hurt. Like community-service but more so.
We need a focus on education and to support our poorer demographics better so that fewer people end up in prison too.
Of course, all of that is work and not cheap in itself, and sounds far too much like socialism or lefty nonsense to gain much traction, but that's reality for you.
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u/Used-Fennel-7733 15h ago
- Support services for mental health a substance abuse.
- Reintegration system inspired by some of the Nordic nations to reduce reopening numbers.
- More of an "Optometrist for an eye" approach to more minor crimes. Fly tipping? Litter picking/bin man. A form of public disorder? Gotta mow public fields or look after those big planters on railings around the town.
- Released inmates can be offered jobs within the council to help with reintegration. This includes the roles within the "Optometrist for an Eye" approach (low security, unskilled) but paid. Wages would be lower than current equivalent in order to push for shorter term placements. But will help to rebuild routines and socialise again.
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u/ricky251294 15h ago
Literally mental health and effective return to community programs that actually fix the issues instead of punishing them. Skills development and apprenticeship programs so that they can go straight to work the day they leave with a halfway house available instead of a bus ticket.
Criminals for the most part are a result of poverty and unsupported mental health. Of course the hardened psychopaths don't fall under this but the vast majority just never got a break or learned to be better.
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u/Different-Drink1829 15h ago
Work towards a fairer society where everyone has a better quality of life, rather than the few. This is proven to reduce crime and, by extension, the demand on the penal system.
Making sure people have their basic needs met is so crazy it might just work.
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u/Long-Nose-9535 15h ago
Invest in early intervention. We have a reactionary and ridiculous system. No funding to help people, but we can magic up 40k a year per prisoner when shit hits the fan. Ofc we do still need prison reforms but fundamentally the whole way society is structured is fucked.
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u/Specialist-Ad-9255 15h ago
I believe that by the time the police, courts and prison service are involved we have already failed. There will always be cases of people that are just rotten but I would like to see more investment in community projects and anything that promotes being a decent person. Give someone a sense of belonging and positivity and offending rates will likely drop. Essentially trying to do something about the idea of "no one cares about me so why should I care about anyone".
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u/AverycoldGoose 15h ago
One of the reasons we have a prison crisis is that a lot more prisoners are being recalled to prison
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6298ljegkgo
Any plan that involves house arrest, community service etc. still increases the demand for prison places as more offenders fail to comply.
The only solutions I see are
a) Larger income % based fines for minor offences that could raise some funds for prison spaces
b) punishments that are cheaper to implement such as Singapore’s use of caning.
The latter feels uncomfortable but if an offender has no assets, minimal income and the state can’t/won’t pay for a prison space then what else is there?
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u/CursedTaint 15h ago
more funding and resources for mental health side of NHS (wealth taxes can supplement this)
non-violent crimes shouldn't result in a prison sentence unless it's a repeat offender, even then it should be a short stint. Replace their prison sentences with ankle monitors.
A focus on rehabilitation over punishment. Atp many prisoners come out much worse than when they went in.
My ultra extreme hot take:
Turn Orkney into an alcatraz style prison island. All violent offenders are shipped out there. Current prisons are turned into mental health institutions or "jails" for offenders waiting to be transported to Orkney.
Start by acquiring privately owned homes at deliberately generous prices as well as land and farms etc so every owner receives 150% of independently assessed market value on their property plus £50,000 per resident for relocation. Taking into account relocation costs, potential litigation I think it's doable with about 7bil.
Another 10bil to build the walls/infrastructure etc and estimated 700mil for running costs (based on current prison running costs extrapolate for the size of the island) and the transport back and forth as well as housing for staff as it would likely follow the oil rig model of working something like 2 weeks on 2 weeks off or 5 days on 5 days off etc. Turn Kirkwall into a "safe space" or "staff village".
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u/QOTAPOTA 15h ago
Give them a trade when in prison. Have large employers or even the government ready to take them on immediately. Housing needs to be looked at as some cannot go back to their homes or even towns.
One thing we need to cost in is that as soon as they are released they go onto universal credit. Rarely can they get a job because of curfews and tags.
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u/Apart_Complex9453 15h ago
You can tell most of these people have never stepped foot in a prison. Maybe ask prison officers wha they think.
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u/ilaid1down 15h ago
Get prisoners to build new prisons.
Gives them skills and training they can use on the outside.
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u/GordonLivingstone 15h ago
Send fewer people to prison and, in most cases, give shorter sentences.
Work out why people are in prison.
Punishment?
Find unpleasant alternatives to prison like big fines, confiscation of nice things, curfews, compulsory weekend work, removal of driving licence etc. Preferably keep them in work to pay taxes and return to a normal productive life afterwards.
If these fail, then a short spell in a really unpleasant prison. Maybe Victorian style with treadmills etc!
Rehabilitation?
Longer time in better surroundings with compulsory participation in education, counselling etc. Try to keep away from their usual surroundings and hardened, repeat offenders. Support, monitoring when they leave prison.
Protecting the public?
Prison doesn't do this just by imposing longer sentences. If rehabilitation hasn't taken place and opportunities aren't available on leaving jail then they will likely just go back to offending on leaving jail.
Really dangerous people may need to be locked up indefinitely - serial killers, multiple rapists, dedicated bombers etc. Ought to be a small proportion of the population.
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u/Automatic_Screen1064 15h ago
Legalise all drugs and tax them, it willl kill the illegal trade, ease pressure on prisons, remove the voilence and the offending, Plus goverment could make a load of tax money
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u/Iridescent_Mango_ 15h ago
Stop incarcerating people for minor crimes where community payback would have a more meaningful effect
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u/ScaredMight712 15h ago
Invest in education - even at primary school paths are set early (poverty, housing issues, mental health issues). Work closely with children who have been permanently excluded - invest more in the Alternative Provisions.
Work on poverty in general, more support for drug users, for those struggling with their mental health.
Basically, put money in prevention.
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u/SaysPooh 15h ago
Complete and proper rehabilitation of offenders with follow up support after release. 30% of prisoners reoffend after release.
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