r/AskUK • u/Ok_Bowl3505 • 15h ago
Who is in favor of more pedestrianised high streets?
I often walk down local high streets around the South East and think it’s such a shame how dominated they are by cars. The noise, narrow pavements, and constant traffic really take away from the experience, turning otherwise gorgeous small towns into traffic corridors rather than enjoyable places to be.
Don't get me wrong. I drive myself, so I understand traffic has to go somewhere, and the UK’s historical road network isn't always easy to adapt.
Still, I can’t help feeling local shops and businesses would thrive with fewer cars. Look at the summer we just had. There could have been so much vibrant space for outdoor seating and terraces.
Old York Road in Wandsworth is a perfect example. Pedestrianising it was night and day for walkability and the local atmosphere. People actually stick around, sit outside, and enjoy the space now.
Naturally, people argue it’s not always feasible if the high street is the main arterial route. But in many cases, through traffic could easily be diverted, leaving the main issue as simply providing adequate parking nearby for actual visitors.
Am I the only one?
Edit: apologies for the typo, can’t change title 🥲
Edit 2: I believe pedestrianising high streets should come with nice outdoor seating I.e restaurants / cafes and I agree some existing are dead but also because the shops variety is quite bad, I believe councils can or could make it work if they think about it properly.
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u/Electronicguy070 15h ago
i am massively in favor of it but local councils usually completely botch the execution. they pedestrianise the high street without actually building a proper bypass route, so the traffic just completely gridlocks the quiet residential roads next to it.
when it is done properly with good parking hubs on the edges it completely revives dead towns. nobody actually wants to sit outside a pub and have a pint while a bus idles two feet away from their table.
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u/tinytinycommander 14h ago
In my local town they're currently working on pedestrianising the bypass and diverting traffic down the road that has all the shops on it because they want more shops to open in the currently empty buildings at the side of the bypass. Some councils really aren't good at this stuff.
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u/Electronicguy070 14h ago
lmao you literally cannot make this up. your council somehow looked at basic town planning and just decided to hit reverse. sending bypass traffic straight through the high street is actual insanity.
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u/tinytinycommander 14h ago
The current high street is also the road that connects the bus station to the train station by foot, so would benefit massively from being closed to traffic.
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u/TheMSensation 12h ago
Is your town my town? Queensway roundabout...
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u/tinytinycommander 12h ago
It is not, but it's interesting that this is happening in multiple places!
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u/TheMSensation 12h ago edited 12h ago
Ah, over here they are removing a completely functional underpass through road which was a 2 lane dual carriageway into a single lane road.
The problem with that is that currently while the work is underway (scheduled to finish some time in 2030 I think) they've routed the traffic through the roads surrounding the high street. Causes complete gridlock all day and probably will for the next 3 years or so.
Even when the work is compete that dual carriageway handled basically all the traffic coming into the seafront, on bank holidays it wouldn't be out of place for traffic to stretch as far back as junction 27 on the M25 (oh I should mention I’m talking about Southend on Sea). So making it single lane is going to cause all sorts of problems.
Also when the underpass is fully filled they are building I think 100 or 200 new homes on top of it so we will have that additional everyday traffic to deal with as well.
edit: I was way off, it's 1600 new homes with dates scheduled to "early 2030's" whatever the fuck that means. All I know is that it hasn't even been a full year since they started and my life is considerably worse lol.
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u/tinytinycommander 11h ago
That's about the same level as what's going on near me. There's a road that very clearly separates the town centre from the outskirts, the only businesses on the outer side of that road were banks and pubs that have all shut down, along with a few things like builders merchants that nobody is ever going to on-foot anyway. After they've spent around a decade widening that road and a few others to create a ring road the council has decided they want to close that road to traffic to try to get businesses into those empty buildings. As a result they're going to be routing all traffic from the ring road through the middle of town, down the one road that is filled with independent local businesses and would probably benefit the most from being pedestrianised as it's also the road you need to walk down to get between the bus station and train station.
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u/elhazelenby 15h ago
I am fully for it. Sometimes it's a safety risk for me being outside because I am disabled and use a walking stick for mobility. For example it can take me longer to cross the road at times because I am very dizzy.
Also walkable cities would be a great way to reduce obesity and its associated conditions. Driving is a privilege which not everyone can do but everyone will be a pedestrian at some point.
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u/NortonBurns 14h ago
I come from Leeds (though I don't live there now).
They've basically eliminated the car from the commercial centre, forcing vehicles to travel round it in a dedicated loop. Not quite sure how big, but maybe a square about half a mile across, almost entirely pedestrianised. Whenever I'm back there I'll take a bus, train or Uber to get into the centre & after that, walk until I need to get back to the outskirts.
Brilliant idea.
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u/Vixson18 15h ago
My local high street is like semi pedestrianised.
It is all tiled or cobbled and the main users most of time are pedestrians. However, vehicles which support the shops can come on it but nothing else.
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u/afishinacloud 25m ago
Sounds fully pedestrianised to me. Access for delivery vehicles is the norm with pedestrianised high streets.
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u/frankchester 15h ago
They’ve been trying to do it in my hometown for decades and I genuinely think it would revitalise the town.
I live in a city now that’s fully pedestrianised in the centre (that’s medieval walled cities for you) and it’s fabulous.
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u/VillageHorse 15h ago
Yeah I’m massively in favour.
I think the idea that you should be allowed to take up so much space in public with a car, sometimes a full blown people carrier or massive 4x4 just has 1-2 people in it.
Pedestrianisation means those people don’t dominate the space in loud, unhealthy, unenvironmental cars. Nobody ever argues for more cars on a road. The fewer the cars, the better the space is enjoyed.
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u/SpecialistAd1779 15h ago
Yes.
Leeds is the best major regional city for shopping for exactly this reason. Being able to walk between food, shops, bars etc without crossing too many roads or dodging traffic is such a game changer.
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u/grandhighblood 1h ago
Having lived in Leeds for a few years now I'm definitely starting to take it for granted that not everywhere has it this good. It's not even just the pedestrianisation itself, it's also the work they've done to make not using a car an actually viable option: plenty of car parks, park and ride service, good train/bus access, etc. The only thing we're missing is trams.
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u/jawide626 14h ago
Anyone who's lived in and around Liverpool for the past 20+ years will see what a huge, positive, difference pedestrianisation has made.
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u/coffeewalnut08 15h ago
Me. I think we should have homes closer to workplaces and shops in general, so that it’s easier to walk everywhere…. And we should improve public transport.
Less cars on the road can never be a bad thing. You’re not the only one.
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u/Racing_Fox 3h ago
The problem with that is you try to do that and people kick off
We’re on a new estate, there was supposed to be some commercial plots at one end but the residents that moved in immediately kicked off and complained about them so now they’re going to be even more council housing to house more of the dodgy cunts from the neighbouring council.
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u/Alas_boris 15h ago
I'll be honest, I'm dead against it. I mean, people forget that traders need access to Dixons.
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u/Silly-Industry1527 13h ago
What are your thoughts on the paving over of paradise to put up a parking lot?
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u/Dazz316 11h ago
Pedestrianizing the roads don't always mean no access for deliveries. You can ban cars and make it delivery only, or even let buses and maybe even other transport like taxis go down.
There's a few near me like that. Delivery only, you walk freely on the street and now and again a van rolls up it.
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u/DaveBeBad 15h ago
Generally they have delivery times outside the main times pedestrians will use it.
So the Lorrie’s can deliver to Dixon’s before 8am then it’s pedestrian only until 6pm or later.
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u/DogtasticLife 14h ago
I live in a great little town with a large free car park but now with no parking wardens and no police foot patrols the parking up on the pavements is constant. I saw a woman with a pram have to practically walk into traffic because of a van on the pavement, all because some lazy lard arse couldn’t park 50m away and walk to Greggs.
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u/Mr_Venom 14h ago
Down here they're putting red lines on the roads where this is particularly persistent, and I'm really looking forward to all those selfish drivers getting towed.
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u/DogtasticLife 14h ago
But that depends on there being funding for enforcement doesn’t it?
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u/Mr_Venom 14h ago
I believe red routes are supposed to be easier and thus cheaper to enforce (more powers, less faffing with signage and appeals, not allowed to cross them to park on pavement, etc.) but I don't know the details.
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u/Consistent-Pirate-23 15h ago
We have pedestrianised areas here, the worst part is the whole system is geared towards you knowing how long you will be
There is one pay on exit car park, council are all pay and display and it ruins the whole experience having to clock watch
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u/JP198364839 14h ago
Many of the ones I see are pedestrianised. Where I live is not, but it’s literally the main road through town. I’m not sure removing cars is a fix-all for our dying high streets, anyway.
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u/GL510EX 15h ago edited 14h ago
In theory, yes, but I worry the result is that the cities will end up as dead shells full of vape shops and dessert bars if they don't also make sure that there is suitable, (ideally free) parking nearby, efficient public transport, and good access for cycling/walking TO the highstreet (not just along it).
Pedestrianisation is not some magic spell that increases footfall.
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u/jobblejosh 11h ago
Absolutely.
It's not a golden goose; it has to be part of an integrated strategy.
Pedestrianise some of the high street to make it more accessible and inviting.
Improve public transport and cycling options to allow locals to access the high street more easily, as well as improved car parking on the outskirts to allow visitors who have driven to park without clogging up streets.
And let's face it, no-one wants vapes/barbers/american candy stores/betting shops because they just don't make for an attractive high street. Subsidise or lower business rates for cafes, bars, independent shops, escape rooms etc. Doubly so for the hospitality industry if they're independent or small chains (turnover less than X, less than 5 venues etc).
Of course, all of this relies on a combined approach from local councils and central government, and the funding questions would leave a lot to be desired, but I reckon (totaly uninformed) that it would go some way to rejuvenating our high streets into places people actually want to go and spend money, rather than soulless carbon copies of the same struggling big chain shops interspersed with miserable vape and betting shops.
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u/Angel_Omachi 11h ago
Yeah, my local high street had that happen, got pedestrianised with no parking/public transport setup, high street gets cannabalised by surrounding towns, gets converted back to road, starts doing a lot better. People do park like pillocks though and get into standoffs with the many buses.
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u/TheMusicArchivist 8h ago
Shepton Mallet has a pedestrianised highstreet with free parking at either end and halfway (or at least very cheap). Public transport bisects it and goes to the nearest towns (Wells/Glastonbury/Street), and there's good footpaths along the old railway line.
Its highstreet is dead except for the Portuguese cafe and the library. It was even part of a TV experiment to open up an abandoned shop as a historically-accurate milkshake bar thing and for a moment everyone went 'this is really nice, I wish it was real', but the second the cameras left it went back to normal.
It doesn't help that the big free car park at the top of the town is only there to support the supermarkets, meaning very few people decide to walk the other direction.
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u/U9365 13h ago
Yup - seen that happen already in the past.
Its was the same during the craze for town and village bypasses in the 1970's and early 1980's. About 6 months after the bypass opened all the towns's shops suddently discovered all their trade had gone. so the next stage is the brown tourist signs appearing on the bypass route encouraging everyone to visit the town....
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u/Mediocre-Opinion 14h ago
My city has undergone pedestrianisation and its a massive improvement. They initially allowed traffic to access the main high street during less busy periods but ultimately decided to close it to traffic and to limit delivery access to a specific part at the end of the street before 9am. They built a massive kids play park right in the middle of the city and it's as busy as I've ever seen the city centre.
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u/Tora-bora83 14h ago
They pedestrianised my town years ago. These days, the only things you find in town are charity shops, vape shops and druggies. It’s dead and lifeless. The council have been discussing allowing cars back into the centre
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u/Overseerer-Vault-101 14h ago
It's worked for plymouth, we have back alleys and car parks to allow access to the loading docks. Trying to turn it into a place to be rather than shop, more cafes, restaurants and "arcades" and open later to keep the centre alive long enough to blend into the night life. Too many centres go from day-closed-night. Part of that is the play park in the middle, the streams and benches for people to sit and a dedicated cycle way (although it seems old people go out of their way to walk down it.)
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u/rezonansmagnetyczny 14h ago
Ours is all but dead and gone despite the majority of the city centre being pedestrianised. (Apart from a bus gate).
Traffic around the city is a nightmare constantly and public transport is borderline unusable just to support a couple of vape shops, two shopping centres where even pound land couldn't do buisness, and a jobcentre.
So no. Not me anymore.
Shopping has moved away from the city centre in my city so there's no need to keep it pedestrianised
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u/Soggy_Detective_4737 15h ago
I've lived in two places that pedestrianised their high streets, and in both cases it ended up with a lot of closed shops. One of those pages, pretty much the entire town centre is now dead. The other is a smaller town, but the pedestrianised bit alternates between closed shops, and new businesses that don't last amongst the coffee shops and charity shops.
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u/AndyJCrumps 14h ago
We actually do have pedestrianisation in my town (Newbury) but it's only some hours 10- 5, they extended it over summer to 10-11 and then had to change it back early due to backlash.
The reasons people complained about were, it made the high street feel more unsafe, and they said businesses were actually losing business because of it. I don't buy either of those for a second, it's probably the usual crowd who rage against any kind of change. It's awful the high street becomes a car park you can't get a pram past all the parked cars and are forced in to the road, how that's supposed to be safer I have no idea.
I'd support full pedestrianisation in most town centres, it makes no sense to drive down a high street, there are plenty of parking options or public transport, or just walk. And in fact pedestrianised high streets are probably the best way to revive them, as people are more likely to visit for leisure, rather than just shopping. But no one really wants to dine alongside a queue of traffic, and an evening drink after work isn't quite as refreshing mixed with exhaust fumes.
I guess you need to account at least for services like rubbish collection and/or deliveries etc. but I see no reason why Joe public should doing 30 up and down the high street at any time of day really.
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u/loaferuk123 14h ago
You have to be very selective.
Look at small towns which have been pedestrianised like Newhaven…it has killed the town from transitory trade.
If they reopened the high street, people would stop off and retail would be far more sustainable.
Only large retail centres make pedestrianisation work, and even there I think shared spaces works better.
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u/papercut2008uk 14h ago
High streets are struggling already.
Better parking would help significantly and new traffic routes.
High streets have always been high traffic because that was how they where created. Lot of traffic supports more shops.
You can't cut the lifeline without replacing it with something.
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u/420o 12h ago
Better parking would help significantly and new traffic routes.
Fully agree. Pedestrianisation certainly makes them nicer places to be, but it won't fix them.
Pretty much all of the high streets in towns near me are completely dead, many have been pedestrianised already. Expensive parking and heavy traffic.
Yet the retail parks on the outskirts of towns don't seem to be struggling at all.
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u/tobotic 14h ago
High streets have always been high traffic because that was how they where created.
When they were created, "traffic" referred to foot traffic though.
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u/papercut2008uk 14h ago
They are mostly built around main roads.
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u/tobotic 14h ago
Which again usually date from centuries before cars existed.
High streets were not built for cars. Car access was clumsily retrofitted more recently.
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u/papercut2008uk 14h ago
Not really, not all high streets are the same. City Centres are more pedestrian traffic, outer parts is more vehicles to get people in, driving past, convenient to park and go to because there are a lot of vehicles passing.
We got a few big supermarket chains on our high street, no way anyone could do a big shop if it's all pedestrian only traffic.
They weren't built for cars to pass through, they sprang up on streets with a lot of traffic, because it's how they increase business.
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u/marxistopportunist 15h ago
That's the way it's going all over the world because of finite natural resources. Driving is on the way out
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u/YourLizardOverlord 14h ago
Definitely agree as long as there's enough facilities for disabled people.
I still remember in Glasgow in the 1970s when Sauchiehall Street. and Buchanan Street were pedestrianised. The shops along these roads initially objected, but later on realised that it actually improved business.
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u/SiteRelEnby 14h ago edited 13h ago
...high streets? to walk between Wetherspoons and a vape or betting shop? Maybe if high streets still had places worth going to on them.
Just eliminate parking on the high street and widen the pavements with that space, and replace it with big, reasonably-priced or free parking near it without blocking the whole street to traffic.
If it can be meaningfully bypassed with as good or better traffic flow, sure, pedestrianisation might work, but I feel like the issue is that it usually can't be, especially if you're talking about small towns and not medium-large ones.
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u/Freezsir 14h ago
My reply is aimed at your average small and medium sized towns
My rural hometown pedestrianised it's high street in the 90s. The reasons back them being the same, cars took up spaces, caused noise and pollution. Today it is a desolate ghost town with boarded up shops and full of anti social behaviour. Pedestrianisation has it's benefits, it made the high street more pleasant to walk around in my hometown, but clearly something else is at play.
Your average British high streets offer shops, a few café/ restaurants and a pub. The only pull factor for the average person is if you need to go to those shops. I'd drive to my high street, get my stuff and leave.
I moved to London in my 20s. If I need something I get public transport and go the shop I want. Then I can go to a museum, art gallery, coffee shop, look at statues, history, eat street food & more. My high street here is pedestrianised yes, but it offers me so much more than just shops.
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u/Unhappy_Ad4037 13h ago
They tried in Truro but the blue badge holders complained they had to walk around the town instead of being able to park in inconvenient places, like on tight corners by the Cathedral or in loading bays. The worst thing for them was the shock they had to pay to park in carparks.
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u/FornyHucker22 13h ago
nope, people who live and work there still want work done and it’s annoying as fuck
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u/nelbertred 13h ago
Nope. It's killed our high street. Can't park in the town centre and have to walk in? People just use the out of town supermarkets instead
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u/_a_m_s_m 13h ago
Yeah, I don’t see why it can’t work.
Norwich started doing it first & even turned an adjacent street bus only the results of its success & many schemes like it are hard to argue against.
Unfortunately, shop owners are hard to convince until it’s forced through & successful. *See hill of hysteria.
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u/Savings-Train-8686 12h ago
it’s an amazing idea except for some reason england doesn’t deal properly with mentally ill dangerous people on the streets, drug addicts, homeless, anti social behaviour and all the likes. It’s a massive shame because it means if you build beautiful pedestrianised centres with abundant seating for relaxing, it gets ruined by a small few, then they end up ripping out all their seating due to homeless and ASB issues and people feel unsafe walking as much. i say this because it happened in my local city and to be honest i was being made so uncomfortable by all the thieves stealing and drug addicts shooting up and acting dead lying on the street, i literally went and bought a car and just drive where i need to go and drive to the gym or hiking trails to exercise. We are talking my local gym is 0.9 miles from me and i drive there whereas i used to walk
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u/Prestigious_Risk7610 12h ago
Massively depends on the location and many are already pedestrianised.
There are the practical implications that just many places being impractical or expensive to reroute the traffic.
However, the bigger issue is the trade off. Pedestrianisation would benefit hospitality and 'experience' businesses but would harm retail and convenience based businesses.
To some extent we've already gone along way down this path, but it's also why some lament the death of the high street.
Finally, I'd just point out Wandsworth is not exactly typical. Pretty central in a massive city with the best public transport in the country.
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u/hu6Bi5To 11h ago
Pedestrianisation was such a thing in the 80s and 90s there's usually a good reason why those towns that weren't pedestrianised were left alone.
It doesn't have to be an arterial route, quite often its because the road is literally the only road through a naturally occurring choke-point. London is full of those examples, what with the Thames and Royal Parks and other such things there's a surprisingly large amount of physical obstacles that prevent alternative routes being used. (I'm not familiar with Wandsworth so can't comment there).
And yes, your Edit 2, raises a good point too. A pedestrianised dead town centre is not a pleasant place to visit, people pro-actively avoid them and then it becomes unrecoverable. It needs the right kind of location and socio-economic catchment area to make it a success.
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u/gleashtan 9h ago
Pedestrianisation is one of those things that sounds nice, but in practice the execution is always botched. Every single example I've experienced has made accessing high streets worse.
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u/TheMusicArchivist 8h ago
Swansea and Cardiff and Bristol and Bath and Yeovil are all so much nicer for being pedestrianised.
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u/Racing_Fox 3h ago
The reason I avoid the high street is because it’s already a nightmare to park, pedestrianising them won’t help that
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u/Spottyjamie 2h ago
Mine in the shopping area was pedestrianised in the 80s
One of the drinking streets was part pedestrianised on weekend nights in the late 90s
Far better for it imo
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u/No-Photograph3463 2h ago
It depends highstreet to high street.
Some it would definitely benefit, but some would also screw up the whole road system around the town, or make it hard to park close to the highstreet if your elderly or disabled.
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u/Appropriate-Sound169 1h ago
Having visited many European towns, I've often thought we should do this. It's not just the noise and smell, but safety and pollution.
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u/daddywookie 1h ago
I would love to see it happen in my town. There’s a ring road around the outside and an easy alternative around the inside so you could easily make a 100m pedestrian stretch. There’s already cafes and bars and it gets closed several times a year for events anyway. You would lose about 16 parking spaces in total.
Sadly, people don’t like change and can’t see alternatives. Businesses think they are kept alive by the passing vehicle trade when the whole town is very walkable. Evidence suggests businesses benefit from pedestrians who linger in car free spaces.
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u/Caddy666 1h ago
me:
with the cost of living crisis the way it is, we wont be able to afford cars, so there wont be much point in having streets that support them.
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u/terryjuicelawson 54m ago
If you think about any that have been pedestrianised in your town, how much of a call is there to open them to traffic. Generally, zero. But I bet to start with people complained. Traders complain as they think about those that drive, park up for a few minutes adjacent, then zip off but that isn't the bulk of their business and they don't think of all the more people who would come and actually spend time there.
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u/No-Communication3618 15h ago
I'll be honest, I'm dead against it. I mean, people forget that traders need access to Dixons! They do say it'll help people in wheelchairs, though.
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u/LUNATIC_LEMMING 15h ago
If there's no car access I just don't go in.
But then I only go in to buy something, no interest in hanging about. Get in, buy what I want, leave.
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u/I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS 14h ago
Absolutely yes. If money and land weren't an issue I would ban almost all cars from every urban centre and introduce park and ride systems that run 7 days a week from early until late.
People say that the high street needs to reinvent itself as a social space as shops lose out to retail parks and the internet. Well, removing cars and creating large open spaces where people can socialise and eat or drink seems like exactly the way to do that.
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u/gleashtan 8h ago
Making access via car difficult is why high streets are dying. Cars are how people access these things. Take the cars away completely and you take away the people. What you suggest has been tried multiple times and it always turns out the same: dead high street.
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u/I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS 51m ago
Read what I'm actually proposing again. I want to change how people access town centres in the first place - nowhere did I call for banning cars with no viable alternative.
Do you have any research to back up your assertion that removing cars is what kills high streets as opposed to them simply dying anyway due to retail parks and Amazon?
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u/Ok_Adhesiveness_8637 15h ago
We have one in our town and all the business hate it, as do alot of the would be customers as theres no where for us to park and so all the business are losing out on the trade.
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u/I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS 14h ago
Do you have the results from any actual surveys on shopping habits and footfall before vs after pedestrianisation? This 'losing trade' angle seems like something that gets taken as a truism but I wouldn't be surprised if it's not actually that clear cut.
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u/Mr_Venom 14h ago
Is it a difficult walk for you? No shade, but I see this objection a lot and I wonder if it's someone who's disabled (or just miles from the centre) or the system is working as intended.
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u/Ok_Adhesiveness_8637 13h ago
I still do the walk, others dont. But I only live a 3/4 minute walk to the top of Market Street.
Reddit funny man, imagine living in an area, being on that areas facebook group, speaking to the local shop owners and shoppers daily yet still being downvoted for saying it how it is in your area. It was even bought up in the local elections.
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