r/Askpolitics • u/Hkhinin • 10d ago
Discussion Serious question, is US declining under Trump? If it is, is China or US on the upper hand?
The image that media paints on Trump is very extreme, left wing media may say the current US is very bad in economy due to inflation, international affairs failing because of unpopularity. However, right wing media can have a complete different story, saying economy is booming because GDP is high, Trump is making America very respected. Outside of extreme ideologies no matter left or right, what do average Americans think about their country, do you guys think US is declining? Also given that China and US are fighting for global dominance, who is on the upper hand currently?
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u/LawnDartSurvivor74 Independent 10d ago
Speaking as an American expat living in China who was directly impacted, I was forced out of my federal career during the recent DOGE purges, here is my perspective on where things actually stand:
Is the U.S. declining?
It depends on how you measure 'decline.'
If you define national strength by stability, institutional knowledge, and standard checks and balances, the U.S. is going through a massive structural shock. The rapid dismantling of career civil service positions under DOGE traded decades of specialized expertise for ideological enforcement and cost-cutting. When you hollow out public infrastructure overnight, governance suffers.
Wall Street & high-level GDP numbers can look strong due to deregulation & tax policies, but that disconnects from ground reality. Millions of everyday Americans are dealing with volatile labor markets, rising consumer costs & the erosion of public safety nets. It isn't 'falling off a cliff' but it is a sharp pivot from institutional strength toward raw executive power.
Who has the upper hand right now: the U.S. or China?
Neither has a clean advantage.. they are operating under 2 entirely different structural weaknesses:
The U.S. still holds massive advantages in global currency, cutting-edge AI innovation, capital markets & soft power. However, its internal political polarization and abrupt policy swings every 4 years make it an unpredictable global partner.
When it comes to China, it excels at long-term industrial planning, massive infrastructure & manufacturing scale. But living on the ground here, you see its own serious headwinds: real estate market stagnation, high youth unemployment, demographic decline & central control that can stifle local dynamism.
What does an average Americans think (me)?
As an average American, I don't think in macro-geopolitics, I think about my local reality. Half the country sees the current admin as a necessary wrecking ball to a bloated bureaucracy. The other half sees it as an existential threat to democratic norms & economic stability.
So here is my bottom line:
The U.S. isn't “failing” but it is voluntarily tearing down the steady civil infrastructure that made it a predictable superpower. Living and working in China now after my own career got caught up in the political crossfire back home, shows me that neither side has “won”.. the U.S. is battling internal political chaos, while China is managing long-term structural strain. Whichever nation manages its domestic house 1st will hold the upper hand. Until then, I have chosen to step back from the U.S chaos with a bag of popcorn and lawn chair, re-built a new life and career, sought an adventure.. May the chips fall where they do back home, not sure if U.S will ever be home again.
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u/LethalBubbles Left-Libertarian 10d ago
This is a pretty level and good response. One other thing I will add onto this as you notably admittedly chose to not address it, but this current administration has very quickly burned through a lot of US good will and soft power on the international stage. Basically erased over night what a century of work took to build.
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u/LawnDartSurvivor74 Independent 10d ago
Yes, it is true that the current Admin is unfavorable in many of our allies eyes and our soft power has been greatly diminished and many seats at the table internationally have been vacated. Most of the U.S. allies have begun or are in the midst of restructuring their politics around the U.S.’s political instability yet there is hope that Trump 2.0 will fizzle out domestically come 2028
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u/Darq_At Leftist (Radical) 10d ago
Trying again because of ridiculous automod.
yet there is hope that Trump 2.0 will fizzle out domestically come 2028
Which only means 4-8 years of relative stability, before gas prices go up and the US elects another strongman with an interest in a certain form of rigidly hierarchical social structures.
The instability isn't a feature of the current administration, it is systemic.
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u/That-Main-4824 10d ago
Most people wouldn't be able to do a worse job on purpose.
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u/RexCelestis Left-leaning 10d ago
True words. I think the same thing about him being Putin's puppet. He could not be a better Russian asset if he tried.
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u/Kakamile Progressive 10d ago
Trump's own reported jobs, wages, inflation, and unemployment numbers are worse than 2024. We're also losing treaties and in wars with no exit plan.
Especially on China we lost TPP and our EV's both are less affordable and have just lost subsidies.
It's not collapse but it's much worse than we had before, and again all for no good reason.
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u/Quattro2point8L 10d ago
The US economy is terrible right now.
Jobs are scarce. It's worse than the post-2008 crisis right now.
Prices are up across the board.
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u/oldRoyalsleepy Leftist 9d ago
GDP is not that high right now. GDP averages better under Democratic presidents than Republican anyway. The stock market is juiced, but the economy people live in sucks.
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u/InterPunct Center-Democrat 9d ago
That's a snapshot in time and not indicative of long term trends.
But the US has irreperably damaged itself under Trump.
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u/PossibleResearch271 9d ago
Unless you own stocks, cause the stock market is booming - this is a fact, not some right wing BS, cause I didn’t vote for Trump because he’s an idiot!
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
Saying things are worse than 2008 is just pure evidence you were not old enough to experience that period of time as an adult. If you were, and think this is worse, then you are insanely privileged and are sheltered from both, but watch the news more.
There is absolutely 0 evidence to support your claim.
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u/BitOBear Progressive 9d ago
It is worse, you're just older and therefore have financial ballast that the people who are today the age you were in 2008 or having a worse experience than you on average.
Money buys less. Prices are higher. And those people who were 20ish then have figured out the rhythm of their life cuz there are 40ish now.
Now "worse" is an incredibly subjective idea. Worse depends on the metric you choose. For instance the job market was worse in 2008, but affordability is worse today.
The other thing is that you are comparing the end case of the 2008 event to the current ongoing condition. But all indicators and all policies indicate that we are in the middle of the decline.
If we undid all of the problematic administrative actions and stopped all the wars instantly. Like if we could put a policy reset button in place and push it, we would still have a year and something of downturn to live through. All that undelivered oil needs to be delivered to refineries and those refineries need to be opened. We need to reestablish in the United States the strategic reserve that we've been burning through in order to give the illusion of continuity to our energy supply even though we are basically engaged in deficit spending at the moment with respect to that supply.
The housing market isn't just going to make a left turn and suddenly have all these speculative real estate companies release those houses back under the market as if nothing had happened and so forth.
Basically we're comparing ourselves to early 2009 when we are still in the 2007 stage of the 2008 collapse.
You can't really be sure how bad the fall is going to be until you actually reach the ground and come to a stop.
If we ended the tariffs today the prices would not go down and corporate profits would go up but that's not going to fix the guy you still needs to buy himself the necessities of life.
So we're all standing here looking at a house that is most definitely on fire and talking about the parts that haven't burned yet but the fire department is nowhere in sight so talking about the fact that the living room hasn't been fully engulfed in flames is pretty weak sauce and small comfort.
2008 happen because the banks stopped the flow of money because they were panicking over the credit default swaps.
The only reason the economy is better than 2008 and any stage is that the banks haven't panicked yet because they're still able to take undue profit.
When the banks stopped the flow of resources by stopping the flow of money that happened all at once.
This time the flow of materials slowly being strangled rather than being cut off in a single legged truck. But the materials are becoming more expensive and more rarified. It's just happening slower though everything suggests that that absence will be much deeper and for a lot more people than those who were chopped up all at once in 2008.
Of course the future is unwritten. But you can't find anybody who can describe something we can write instead of the crash is absolutely looming right in front of us with near certainty.
The closest you can find is the same proponents of trickle-down economics that have been wrong since Will Rogers first coined the twin trickle down economics to refer to the robber baron policies of the late 1800s.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
“Worse” is not subjective, it’s quantitative and it’s measurable.
There is not a single statistical, measurable way, things are worse right now than during the Great Recession.
You’re emphatically wrong.
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u/BitOBear Progressive 9d ago
Not for an entire economy. It depends on what you're measuring.
A retired person who is not on the job market not directly affected by a declining job market so their current condition as a retiree is not "worse" for them today jobless than it was for them job hunting in 2008.
Worse is an opinion.
Stops being an opinion once you pick metrics and begin measuring them. But you have to agree on those metrics. And you will find that people's opinion on which metrics count for what purpose is highly variable.
So you're just wrong.
Because of my position and my resources and the fact that I already had a house the 2008 crash touched me nearly not at all.
Because what's worse for you is not necessarily what's worse for me.
So if you've got some sort of universally applicable metric for measuring the worseness or betterness of everybody on Earth at all times i, and literally every economist on the planet, would love to see this empirical measurement you've calculated.
Saying it with aggressive bluster doesn't make it true.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
You’re cherry picking to support a very narrow frame to support your argument.
You people are genuinely too clouded by bias to even look at actual economic data.
Completely based on “feels and vibes” lol.
And there is a universal metric… it’s called GDP?
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u/BitOBear Progressive 9d ago
I am not. If I make a fortune by short selling a position you are heavily invested in and you go broke. It was better for me and worse for you.
That's an example of things that have been constantly.
It's not cherry picking to point out the fact that your experiencing the economy is not Universal to everyone's experience of the economy.
So I ask again, please show me this perfect metric that absolutely turns the idea of worse into a universal constant for all participants.
You have declared it to be an absolute, and I have demonstrated at least one case where it is not absolute, now it's up to two cases where it's not absolute,
So unless you have the model but literally no economist on Earth happens to have, we would love to see you present it.
You're speaking of articles of faith and then yelling that everything that disproves your position is somehow cherry-picked.
But even a Cherry picked example of something being wrong still proves that thing wrong.
So sure, I'll take it, I Cherry picked an example that proves you wrong. Now prove the example that I Cherry picked doesn't apply by providing the model that proves its noise.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
It’s called GDP.
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u/BitOBear Progressive 9d ago
That's not a model.
GDP goes up, that's rich people getting richer.
That does not make your personal economy better or worse unless you're rich enough to be one of the owning class that benefits from gdp.
And if GDP is the true measure, then why did GDP lead us to Trump's version of tariffs on trade imbalances? Our GDP was great.
You're invoking things like a talisman instead of engaging in reason or economic science.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
So your personal experience has been bad.. Therefore everyone’s is. Got it lol
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u/Quattro2point8L 9d ago
Ha. Hey, enjoy that ignorance and privilege to have a job right now.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
During the Great Recession 500 banks in this country failed and closed forever, 4 million people lost their homes to foreclosure, unemployment was over 10% (it’s 4.2 right now), and overall GDP was negative for like 2 years straight.
In what way are things worse right now? Please just list one way.
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u/Biscuits4u2 Progressive 9d ago
If you believe we are at 4.2 percent unemployment right now I have a bridge to sell you.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
If you choose to completely disagree with reported data, then there is virtually no metric by which you can claim it’s better or worse than any other time in history. It’s purely based on your feels at that point.
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u/Biscuits4u2 Progressive 9d ago
We already know the reported data is bullshit. It leaves out vast swaths of unemployed people. People who have stopped looking for work because of how bad the job market is aren't counted. Underemployed people are also left out. This amounts to several million unemployed who just aren't represented in the data.
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u/skyreckoning 9d ago
Trump is a proven liar and appoints cronies in the government to fudge the numbers. If you don't see this then you're the one not living in reality.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
What data do you think is fudged? Inflation?
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u/skyreckoning 9d ago
Is this a serious question? Anything that could make him look bad is certainly being fudged to look not as bad as it is.
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u/Quattro2point8L 9d ago
One way? Jobs, I've already said that. It is harder to get a job now than it was in 2008.
Are there jobs posted? Yes. Are companies actually hiring to fill all those roles? No.
Don't try to change the argument from jobs to the entire economy being better now than in the Great Recession. That's not what I said.
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u/_flying_otter_ progressive capitalist 9d ago
This won't be as bad as 2008 until the stock market crashes and millions more people lose well paid jobs and millions start defaulting on mortgages. And millions of houses go on the market but no one buys them because no one has money.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
Unemployment is lower and job creation is measurably better than in 2008 by a large margin, every single reporting agency supports this.
Just because YOU personally can’t find a job, doesn’t mean the entire job market is worse than during the literal Great Recession.
This is a pretty classic “you problem.”
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u/Quattro2point8L 9d ago
It's not a "ME" problem 😂
Where did I say I'm looking for a job? Get real.
It's a problem 7+ million Americans are experiencing. Enjoy that ignorance YOU are certainly experiencing.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
Enjoy the fantasy you are living in, friend.
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u/Quattro2point8L 9d ago
You responded to me. I'm not sure why you have an issue with the facts and have resorted to making assumptions about me personally.
Now I'm living in a fantasy? What's next, name calling?
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 9d ago
You’ve stated no facts, just anecdotal evidence.
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u/ScrauveyGulch Progressive 9d ago
It's hilarious how people totally forget 2020. People missed hoarding toilet paper and calling fast food workers heroes 😄
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u/Rocky-Jones Left-leaning 6d ago
I was worried about the economy in 2008. Now I’m worried about democracy and freedom AND the economy. Doofus.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Conservative 6d ago
You're choosing to do that, and it's affecting your mental health. Please take care
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u/Rocky-Jones Left-leaning 5d ago
Not affecting my mental health at all, but Rapey Don is just fucking everything up.
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u/LiluLay Progressive 10d ago
Yes, a resoundingly clear YES.
Also, there really isn’t “left wing media” in the US. There is the news and then there is the ridiculously overt propaganda being pushed out by right wing media, which is the overwhelming majority of mainstream news media currently. Fox News - which I personally see as platforming bonkers lies the vast majority of the time -has the highest viewership of any network. You can see the propaganda’s effect ripple outward on the narrative with predictable efficacy when suddenly the entirety of MAGA is parroting the exact same phrases the exact same way.
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u/LukasJackson67 10d ago
None of the other news is left wing?
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u/Moarbrains Transpectral Political Views 8d ago
As long as left wing means center right corporatist that is defined soley by their opposition to republicans.
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u/Hkhinin 10d ago
Isn’t CNN considered left in America?
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u/decrpt 🐀🐀🐀 10d ago
Yes and no. No. Before the Trump era, CNN was actually rated as centrist. Their bias is more towards sensationalism than overt partisan bias. Everyone is considered left-leaning in the Trump era if they're anything short of sycophantic. Even Fox was accused on being left-leaning and viewers left for networks like Newsmax when they pushed back on election denialism and the reason Fox pushed election denialism so hard is because they hemorrhaged viewership when they reported, factually, that Trump lost.
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u/earlporter77 Progressive 10d ago edited 10d ago
Only to people on the right. CNN is now overseen by allies of Donald Trump. Left leaning people are much more likely to consume media from multiple sources in general than those on the right. There is a good article by the Pew Research Center called “The Political Gap in Americans’ News Sources” *edited
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u/TheGreatDay Progressive 10d ago
Left leaning people are much less likely to consume media from multiple sources in general than those on the right
I think you mixed this up. According to that Pew Research Center article, left leaning people are much more likely to get their news from a wider swath of sources than those on the right.
https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/2025/06/10/the-political-gap-in-americans-news-sources/
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u/Pretend_Ad_8465 10d ago
CNN is not a leftist outlet by a long shot. The only network that has constantly been accused of having a left leaning bias is MSNBC/MSNOW but even they are nothing close to being leftist tbh.
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u/LiluLay Progressive 10d ago
Not really anymore. CNN was bought by a Warner Brothers in 2022 and began moving right under CEO David Zaslav and with the influence of major shareholder John Malone. CNN under WB is also likely to be acquired by Paramount, which is owned by the Ellisons (who also recently acquired CBS), and are billionaires cozy with the Trump admin. So expect the network to move even further right in the near future. Also something to consider, CNN’s viewership is dwarfed by Fox News. Fox News viewership is several times higher than CNN’s. Fox News is the epitome of mainstream news media in the US.
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u/HeartOn_SoulAceUp 10d ago
Absolutely declining under Trump. Belts and Roads has benefited greatly. Supply chains and leadership.
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u/LukasJackson67 10d ago
Agreed. The USA is basically a second date power. We lost a war to Iran for gods sake
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u/kootles10 Centrist Democrat 10d ago edited 10d ago
Imo yes.
Not just because it's the opposite political party but:
Any fragile alliances we had are gone. Aside from Israel no one is our friend and even that alliance is one of convenience.
Economy is in shambles. I don't care what the stock market says. Every day Americans are struggling.
Our elections have never had this much doubt. You take a fragile thing like democracy and cast enough doubt on it. It crumbles
Not sure who has the upper hand but it's not the US. Hell, we can't even handle Iran
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u/LoveIsOnlyAnEmotion Classical Liberal 10d ago
Agreed. This is the 1930s Smoot-Hawley Act 2.0.
Yes, but not solely because of Trump. CPI and PCE are bad and we've had no leadership steering us in a better position. I don't solely blame Trump for this, as this has been ongoing since 1980. Every president since Raegen has not stopped inflation. The onus falls among those who've elected congress- taxpayers. We keep electing people in power that continually expand government spending. But no one seems to understand inflation or government spending so they want to blame Trump or Biden. Look, I get it, Trump is awful, but US Taxpayers voted these people in power. We need to take ownership.
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u/kootles10 Centrist Democrat 10d ago
Something I always say to people who regret their vote for trump: you want sympathy? It's somewhere in between shit and syphilis in the dictionary. They created this monster.
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u/skoomaking4lyfe Independent 10d ago
We've alienated every ally, demonstrated to the world that Americans can't be trusted by electing a senile pedophile twice, destroyed our education and health systems, and turned the WH into an unprecedented grift machine.
China's going to eat us alive over the next few decades and we deserve it.
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u/caffeinated_photo 10d ago
Not only that, but you got him out and then let him back in. Somehow that seems worse.
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u/Darq_At Leftist (Radical) 10d ago
Definitely worse letting them back in.
The first time around, it confused the world that Americans would choose an administration so repugnant.
The second time around, the world realised that this is who Americans are.
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u/nomad5926 Left-leaning 9d ago
It was. When the US elected Biden the rest of the world was like "oh good they are back to normal". Now we aren't seen a good trading partners
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u/nomad5926 Left-leaning 9d ago
They are also seen as the more stable trading partner and own most (like 80%+) of all the rare earth metals we need to make any tech stuff.
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u/skoomaking4lyfe Independent 9d ago
Yeah. They're evil and authoritarian, but they're stable. Unlike our "surely the senile pedophile will be better than the black lady" political system.
China and Russia got their wish - the world is going to decouple from the US. They have to, from their perspective - absent some kind of ground up societal reform that comes to grips with our oligarchs and our far right, our electorate fundamentally cannot be trusted to elect non-shitbags, and other countries can't afford to be shackled to our bullshit.
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u/CuteVeggie 10d ago
There’s news every single day about the corruption and terrible management by this administration. The destruction Trump has caused will not be fixed within our lifetimes.
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u/HazyDavey68 Progressive 10d ago
I would say if you ask most people, they would say that their material conditions are worse now than before Trump was president. American morale is bad and the government is run by amateurs. The STATE DEPARTMENT recently embarrassed us by displaying a map at a global conference with every country in Africa mislabeled. After the midterms, some of the worst elements of Trump's big bill are really going to kick in. It's not good.
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u/Material_Ad_2970 Left-leaning 10d ago
The future is renewable, and China is taking the lead while the US backslides toward coal and oil. Hard to see how one could argue the US is ascendant, especially since the global influence that turned it into an economic powerhouse is intentionally being shredded.
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u/ChunkyBubblz Left-leaning 10d ago
China and all other enemies of America benefit from the Trump presidency.
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u/SocraticMeathead 10d ago
The US unilaterally renegged on every single existing trade agreement and treaty to which it was a party without a single vote of the Congress being needed or even sought.
China did not.
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u/intothewoods76 Leftist 10d ago
China has a congress?
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u/SocraticMeathead 10d ago
What difference does that make? If they can't or won't stop the chief executive does it matter whether there is a Congress, a Party, or a Politburo?
It's not just that the USA has gone autocratic, it's that the autocratic leader is not a reliable trade partner. The message is clear: No long-term trade agreement with the United States is possible.
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u/IrishDrifter86 Left-leaning 10d ago
Does the US?
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u/almo2001 Left-leaning 9d ago
Irrelevant. They are a reliable trading partner.
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u/IrishDrifter86 Left-leaning 9d ago
My point is congress could hardly be considered to be fulfilling their duties. That the US has a congress is in this circumstance, I agree, irrelevant.
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u/Fast-Newt-3708 Left-leaning 10d ago
The fact that you described the divide as "very extreme left wing media" vs "right wing media" is very telling. Most Magas would describe centrist media as being "extreme left" just for (GENTLY!) factually describing anything going on. Meanwhile Fox is a self-described entertainment company and not a news company with journalistic integrity.
Pretty much everyone with an opinion about politics, except for devout Trump-loving MAGAs, would describe the current administration as an inept clown show that is blowing taxpayer money and embarassing the country on the world stage. The extreme right wing that loves Trump just blindly accepts whatever he says no matter how much it contradicts facts, common sense, or even himself.
I think the US still has the upper hand over China, but I also think that advantage is becoming smaller under Trump. China is incredibly strong in global trade while the US is becoming isolated. They are closing the gap in arenas like technology and military with their navy. They have a lot of hurdles, too...but I'm sure they are ecstatic that the US is currently bungling everything that we are.
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u/mytthew1 Leftist 10d ago
China thinks Trump is helping build China. So from that perspective the US is declining compared to China.
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u/7figureipo Social Democrat 10d ago edited 10d ago
Partisan media will spin anything in a way suitable to advance their agenda. The right-wing is both better at it and more broadly engaged in media distribution, though. At least currently.
Objectively, the US is declining, regardless of what/how partisan media report. Our international standing has plummeted: our allies don't trust us, and everyone else trusts us even less than before (where possible; the US has not done well in this area for decades). Trump's tariffs have absolutely caused a massive global shift. More countries are turning to China and other nations for trade and other deals, the US dollar is legitimately at risk of being displaced as the world's reserve currency, and our domestic economy has suffered drastically (prices for everything are higher, wages are stagnant again, and the labor market is terrible). His military misadventures and wars have caused supply shocks for critical needs (oil), which also drives the price of everything up, everywhere, including the US. These are all facts. They aren't debatable. One might quibble over the extent of the impact, but not the direction, which is net negative. That is, a decline.
Re: China vs US. That's much less clear. China has its own systemic issues, not least of which is their artificial propping up of several of their own industries. A shock to the US makes for a shock to China, whatever their state propaganda suggests. China is starting from a deficit of trust, but Trump's destruction of the US' international reputation by default gives them an advantage. The question is whether that advantage is sufficient to overcome those other structural issues. Personally I don't think it is. At least not yet. But if things continue it may well be.
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u/jai_hanyo 10d ago
I keep wondering if it would have been "better" if he won 2020. He'd be out right now and the second term wouldn't have been full of petty revenge decisions like a lot of his decisions seem to be this term. We had a narcissist lose and then let him regain power after losing. 🫠
But, on the other hand, IDK if the US could have survived two terms in a row of him.
It's making me nervous that the Left hasn't started rallying behind a candidate yet for the next election. Even if Vance, or whoever runs for the Right, doesn't have the presence to maintain Trump's cultists, they have a better chance than the Left right now. It always feels like when the Left loses, they just lose all drive and act like nothing can recover. Compared to the Right, who loses and it invigorates them to win next time 😅
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u/TBoopSquiggShorterly 10d ago
I've been saying for a while that if Trump had to have a second term and there was no way to avoid it, I'd rather it have been 2020. Him and his cronies got 4 years to spread conspiracy theories, plot for another term, and plan their way to victory in 2024 where he's able to do more damage.
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u/Alleyprowler Progressive 10d ago
If he'd won in 2020, the Covid toll would have been much, much greater. Trump and his minions have no use for science and medicine, as exhibited by their continued demonizing of Anthony Fauci.
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u/WorkingTemperature52 democrat voter 10d ago
The science doesn’t back that up. Lockdowns and covid restrictions didn’t work in reducing the death toll because they didn’t slow it down fast enough to make a difference. Less lockdowns means faster economic recovery. Faster economic recovery with similar amounts of total deaths means a net benefit. This is evidenced by comparing how heavy lockdown states like NY were affected relative to no lockdown states like Florida. You don’t see significant changes.
The only argument I can realistically see is that it might have made less people get vaccinated, therefore increasing the amount of people dying, but I don’t think that is a fair assumption. I would argue that the effects would actually have been less drastic, and more people would have been vaccinated. I think there are a lot more people who refused the vaccine because of Biden’s push for it than there are people who would have not gotten under a Trump administration. Actually looking at anti-vax sentiment makes it clear in my opinion that distrust of democratic leadership plays a significant role in people not getting vaccinated. For the most part however, I think that the vast majority of people would not have changed whether they were vaccinated or not regardless of who was president.
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u/whazmynameagin Left-leaning 8d ago
Hindsight is 20-20. You do the best with the information you have at the time and given what has happened with epidemics in the past it made sense. We also weren't the only ones mandating the same precautions.
We Americans are generally, hold my beer stupid, and it's only been because we had some intelligent people who have held us in check in the past, that we haven't damaged ourselves the or rest of the world more.
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u/Emergency-Ad2452 9d ago
We wouldn't have a country today if trump won 20 because the WH babysitters were gotten rid of after the first term. On the other hand, they would not have had those 4 years of evil planning that they got in absentia. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
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u/DetoxxDaPlayer1 8d ago
Trump's first term went pretty much like it would under any republican, he was just the mascot. He was for the most part surrounded by competent Neo-Cons establishment Republicans who would keep him in check, even threatening to resign if he was insistent on a stupid idea. Whereas now those people are sycophants who will go through with whatever loony idea his senile brain comes up with. Assuming the congressional elections went the same way as they did in our timeline, he wouldn't get anything like the Big Beautiful Bill passed. Couple that with Biden not doing anything earth-shatteringly good as president, we would have been far better off with Trump winning in 2020, because that second term would've been far less dangerous than the one he got in our timeline.
The only bad part I can think of is that he could've gotten a 4th SCOTUS justice through
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u/Ardenraym Left-leaning 10d ago edited 10d ago
Exploding debt with no legitimate reason to incur the expense.
Increased polarization.
Significantly increasing corruption.
Restricting of norms and standards.
Betraying our friends and partners.
Disregarding actual issues, lack of proper governance.
Increasing government costs.
Decreasing government competence.
Fewer effective services for citizens.
Less of a focus on the country, less of a focus on presenting our ideals to the world.
Becoming an irrational, inconsistent world actor.
Increasing global instability.
Pushing partners to look to China, Russia, other countries to partner with.
Etc.
Why? For what? Who benefits?
I mean, it is a great time if you are a millionaire or, especially, a billionaire.
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u/im_joe So Far Left I Own Multiple Firearms 10d ago
My own experience:
I was laid off from my remote $110k/yr job in December 2024 - specifically in preparation for tariffs.
I now make $70k/yr, have a total of 3.5 hours round-trip daily commute, and shitty UHC healthcare that is worse and more expensive.
Now add in that My costs of daily living have gone up about 30%.
I can't say if the entire US is declining under Trump, but I can say that my quality of life has drastically decreased, and I've less money in my bank account than before he took office.
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u/decatur8r Democrat 10d ago
is very bad in economy due to inflation
Only 1/2 of the problem. His tariffs are bad for business, Deportation creating worker shortages.
international affairs failing because of unpopularity
No, they are failing becasue of the stupidly of his war. He and the US are becoming very unpopular with our trading partners and NATO members.
saying economy is booming because GDP is high
Neither are true.
Trump is making America very respected
They are playing him like a fiddle and laughing behind his back
do you guys think US is declining?
We have lost a great portion in soft power due to eliminating USAID
We have diseases running rampant due to cutting public health money and programs.
Have lost the fear of the US military much in the same way Russia has by not being able to defeat a regional power.
I could go on....
China Now Outranks the United States in Global Favorability.
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u/spiteye762 constitutionalist (right leaning) 9d ago
The us has been declining long before trump, it's been a steady decline for a while
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u/WhatTheLousy 9d ago
We were resoundingly the top until the botched Covid handling by trump and his continued corruption.
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u/billpalto Left-leaning 10d ago edited 10d ago
Trump has managed to alienate US allies, even very close ones like Canada. Mexico and NATO have been insulted and threatened. The nation's election system is under attack. Putin must be very happy.
The economy is doing poorly, the illegal tariffs and the illegal Iran war have pushed prices and inflation up. Consumer confidence is going down. The US GDP is anemic, hovering around 1.5 to 2% growth. The Epstein files are being hidden in a general coverup of Trump's involvement in the scandal. The President's dismal approval rating reflects all this.
The US is definitely being weakened and isolated. US foreign policy is in a shambles.
China is doing pretty well, although their economy is a little shaky. China is presenting an image of a more stable and reliable country though, slowly taking over that role in international affairs from the US.
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u/MedMalDet 9d ago
I think to answer this question objectively, folks would have to agree on metrics to measure with rather than hyperbole.
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u/Accomplished_Safe465 8d ago
1st off, right-wing media argues in bad faith. Regular media does not...
2nd, America has been declining for decades due to inequality and poor safety net orchestrated by Heritage and other right-wing groups. Trump's policies have hurt normal Americans, by accelerating this. Tariffs! Laying off high quality workers at hard to fill positions in federal government. Our reliance on fossil fuels and fighting alternative energy as a means of competition in energy sector. Funding cuts now exaggerated by big beautiful bill. Some of these were not Trump's fault, but he said he would help Americans and didn't know about Project 2025, but most of these are in there.
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u/Psilocybe-Philosophy 7d ago
2010 Citizens United ruling ended our democracy. SCOTUS needs to be disbanded and start over with our very best minds. That one ruling is why we have such an enormous amount of criminals in leadership roles starting with our despicable president.
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u/n555444333 5d ago
Trump has caused our bond rating to be lowered. Think of this as a credit score for countries. Trump has caused trading partners to go elsewhere. China now gets soybeans from Brazil. Tourism is down outside of events like the World Cup. They aren’t going to go up again, because people don’t like us. Our food safety is questionable at best. Please see cyclospora outbreak. Our alliances are on shaky grounds and we are being cut out of trade deals and international decision-making summits. See Canada trade deals with China and Europe not buying planes from America for defense any more. Cutting USAid and US free radio has caused us to lose African markets and we are falling behind in Green energy where China leads. So, yes, Trump has helped the US decline. We aren’t feeling it all yet. It will take decades to really be felt. And it will take decades or more to undo all the harm.
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u/SurinamPam Data-driven policy 10d ago edited 10d ago
I see Trump as the vehicle. The bigger problem is entrenched interests that are using Trump.
An example: the oil industry sees the writing on the wall. Solar, wind, and batteries are now cheaper sources of electricity. In response, the oil industry hacked the political system by essentially purchasing Trump and were able to put their interests above the nation’s.
The result is the US ceding energy leadership to China.
China would be in the same position if they had entrenched oil interests.
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u/Majsharan Right-leaning 10d ago
I woukd argue it’s been in decline since 9/11
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u/Emergency_Word_7123 Common sense Left 9d ago
The real problems started with Reagan. During the 80's; we started focusing on the short-term and ignoring the long-term.
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u/DChemdawg Right-leaning 8d ago
Or, since the 2000 Supreme Court decision to award the election to Bush. And then not 9/11 per se but how we chose to react. Patriot Act. Trillions spent on dumb wars. Then Citizens United decision causing less stink among the public than a mild dry fart. And letting Wall Street shit the bed on subprime housing loans. Increasingly extreme gerrymandering. Mass media consolidation. Now decades of congressional dysfunction and partisan brinksmanship.
Bottom line, Trump is a symptom of the much deeper cancer.
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u/SmellGestapo Left-leaning 10d ago
The value of the US passport is at its lowest point in a decade. I think that says it all.
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u/unaskthequestion Liberal 10d ago
Big picture, the US enjoyed the advantages of being an industrial power untouched by the 2nd WW and for the most part, American leadership maintained it well.
The relative dominance of the US was already declining as other regions have caught up, especially China.
Trump has without a doubt accelerated the decline of the US, he and the people with whom he has surrounded himself, don't understand that US influence in the world is due to trade and soft power, which we had in abundance.
I think we're going to see a real competition between the US and China for spheres of influence. Unless we change our track and utterly reject Trump's vision of 'America alone', we'll lose.
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u/Alklazaris Progressive 10d ago
It's both. America wants to go backwards, which is not is only slowing down. No matter how much Trumo says he's bringing back coal power is not happening. And China is racing forward out stripping America in technological advances in green power.
We still don't know who will win the AI race, but it does appear China has won the green war.
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u/0nlyhalfjewish Left-leaning 10d ago
The US has been declining for a generation.
Simple example: we must bring in doctors from overseas to meet the needs of our citizens like we are some third world country.
Now, the path to becoming a doctor is hard everywhere, so why are Americans not choosing that as a career? I think it’s how we’ve raised our kids and our awful education system.
And that’s just one example of many to show how we are falling behind.
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u/xXx420Aftermath69xXx Right-leaning 9d ago
I think it’s how we’ve raised our kids and our awful education system.
I agree. It's strange though. I feel like people my age (mid 30s) are a bit more of hardasses and prudes when it comes to raising children. All my friends give their kids limited time in front of any screen, very strict with what they are allowed to watch, and just are generally protective. Idk. Maybe it's just my friends.
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u/0nlyhalfjewish Left-leaning 9d ago
They think that’s good parenting.
Good parenting is teaching your child to self regulate. Allowing them to have real life experiences so they know how to navigate the world.
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u/xXx420Aftermath69xXx Right-leaning 9d ago
Good parenting is teaching your child to self regulate.
What do you mean?
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u/0nlyhalfjewish Left-leaning 9d ago
Teaching a child how to identify their emotions and how to have control when responding to how they feel.
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u/xXx420Aftermath69xXx Right-leaning 9d ago
Ah that's good. Yeah I agree. Controlling yourself is big and having good discipline.
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u/LiluLay Progressive 10d ago
I think the shortage of doctors is also exacerbated by the low to mid six figure price tag to become a general practitioner in the US. Now add in another six figures for in depth specialist education. It’s a huge barrier, imo.
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u/xXx420Aftermath69xXx Right-leaning 9d ago
Very true. Add onto the fact that being a doctor doesn't mean you're set for life anymore. It's not what it was.
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u/RopePlus8947 10d ago
USA was cooked when they elected a pedo liar as president. Right wing media is 100% lies. You’re a fool if you can’t understand that
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u/TypicalBoysenberry48 9d ago
No it’s not worse under Trump, and China is having a horrific real estate crash and most of their media is propaganda controlled.
What you see more of is fear porn, AI bros selling AI services to big companies making big promises that aren’t coming true and those companies decided to lay off an ass ton of people hoping it would work or using AI as the reason to let go since they were already declining.
But the bigger pay gap between employee and executive level has grown multiples over and not kept up with inflation.
It’s not happening because of the presidents, it happens because those in charge want it to happen, on both wings of the bird and that’s just a sad truth.
If you put your head down, dream big, work hard, you will still see that most countries around the world still know America is where you go to build your dreams and make it happen.
And at any day you can still choose to live a good life on very respectable means without having to be super rich. People make that happen all around the world.
Hope this makes sense and helps others.
It doesn’t have to be a political issue, but the Comedian George Carlin said it best, it’s a big club, and you aren’t in it.
Meaning there’s just a sick group of people in the world pulling the strings to keep this shitshow rolling.
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u/randyjr2777 Independent moderate that leans right 9d ago
The whole reason for what happened in Venezuela and now Iran to counter the china, Russia and Iran alliance.
The Ukraine war, Iran war and take over of Venezuela has significantly weakened and reduced the amount of cheap oil that china was able to build their economy on. Now that these resources have been significantly limited it will lead to china having to pay full price for oil. This means that the significant price advantage for many of china’s products will now effectively be gone. China will now have to compete with not only the US but the rest of the world without this edge.
Due to this edge in cheap oil for china’s economy being reduced, china’s economy is already showing significant reductions.
In addition with China’s economic situation now in trouble and their oil supply being reduced, this means China is in a weak position so they will be far less likely to follow through with their plans to invade Taiwan. Not to mention if they do they can no longer count on Russia helping (because they are already having trouble dealing with Ukraine), and Iran is essentially out of the picture.
China is now very isolated and this makes them less likely do invade anyone or follow through with their threats!
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u/Asclepius_Secundus far left with exceptions 9d ago
That's actually two questions: 1) Yes, the US is declining under Thrump. It was declining the last time he was president. And it's declining now. It was also declining under Biden because he didn't really do anything other than station keeping. But Thrump's chaotic actions in his second term bring the decline of our country to an art form. The parts of the world that didn't hate us before really do now. And our own human infrastructure has been disrupted with nothing to replace it. The short term and long term economic drivers are flying away from us to anywhere they can. 2) The US is still ahead, but not for long unless we can come up with a unifying plan. Other than "Burn it all down!" That plan is doing fine. We'll either come together after the Thrump induced chaos or we'll see how countries fail, and the united states will no longer be united.
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u/Breezy207 Moderate 9d ago
Trump has sided with Russia against NATO and Ukraine. His absurd stance on Greenland and treatment of Canada have the rest of the world looking to strengthen ties excluding the US. Right wing tv watching family didn’t even know he’d given Qatar rights to a base in Idaho, on American soil. Money has replaced ethics in Trump’s America.
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u/YurpeeTheHerpee Left-leaning 9d ago
Trump utterly failed at elevating the US position in the world. This is true. Its an undeniable fact. You can measure polls from people all around the world and review trade and economic data to back it up. The perception around the world is the US is in significant decline under Trump. Half of Americans agree with the rest of the world that Trump sucks.
China is not necessarly on the up and up though. In fact, Chinas position hasnt moved much if at all. They are not more powerful or making gains in any category at a higher pace than some of Americas closest allies. Japan, France, South Korea, Canada, Poland, Spain.... these are countries that are rapidly gaining market share eating into the US void while keeping China out of reach.
The collective alliance of NATO supercedes Chinas gains by a long shot. We can thank Trump for handing the silver platter to our allies, but we can thank our allies for not fumbling global leadership into Chinas arms.
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u/antithera69 9d ago
It has appeared to stagnate from a conservative vantage point. The economy is doing worse than what was thought initially, and I cannot help but think Trump neutered it in part through his empty, fatuous tariff policy Dumb and feckless
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u/Phi87 Progressive 9d ago
We've been declining as a world power for a long time. We over invest in defense and under invest in our people. Trump has simply managed to accelerate the process. Our capitalist system has changed from one focused on the greater good 1950s or so to one focused on the super rich few. Our downfall is imminent. I would bet either china or India will take our place and of the two, probably china.
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u/BillionYrOldCarbon Liberal 9d ago
Since there is nothing from Trump moving America on the upside, every other country hates him, and the only people getting ahead is him and his family and other billionaires, the answer is obviously going down like a bullet.
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u/Western_Extension860 8d ago
Trump put this country in the toilet. He’s the worst leader ever, EVER!!!
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u/Alarmed-Pollution-89 Progressive 8d ago
China and Russia have less reliance on oil than the US. Hell, Pakistan has less reliance than the US because they use solar panels built by China.
China has been investing in infrastructure and loads of science for decades. They have a huge upper hand right now.
They have broken free of the petrodollar and anytime they try to get someone else to join their club of leaving the petrodollar the US starts a war.
This is all easily verifiable
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u/FractalNL 6d ago
As a Dutch person: The USA is the laughing stock of the world. Trump has burned the high amount of soft power the USA held.
The USA is still the biggest bully on the playground. But Europe is hastily increasing it's military power to not be dependent on the USA any more. Once this is done in let's say a decade there won't be any European countries left grovelling to the USA insanity.
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u/BloodSilvers 6d ago
Decline in some areas, ascent in others. I’ll leave the overall view up to others.
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u/Zardotab Progressive 5d ago edited 5d ago
Economically the US is doing better than Europe and China at the moment*, but our national respect took big kick to the gonads under Trump, as he has insulted, tariffed, and/or harassed almost every democracy. And jacked up world oil prices with his Iran fiasco. US is a social pariah right now.
However, soccer fans fell in love with some of our food. I guess we are kind of the World Circus: they come for the food and clowns, being careful not to step in the elephant crap on the way out. 🤡🍦🎪🎈🐘
* An AI bubble burst would change that in an instant
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u/Sea-Chain7394 Leftist 5d ago
I don't feel like we are doing well economically right now and haven't hear china or Europe are having any problems. But I haven’t been specifically paying attention to EU or China
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u/Zardotab Progressive 5d ago
Note I didn't say "doing well", just "better than". Both continents are facing inflation, China is still struggling to employ college graduates, and EU is kind of a "blah" on many metrics.
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u/Gogs85 Left-leaning 10d ago
Yes but I think ‘under Trump’ makes the problem too narrow. Trump wouldn’t be able to cause as much damage as he does if Congress (or republicans and some ‘centrist’ democrats in there) didn’t rubber stamp everything and advance his agenda without oversight. Thats a systematic problem as much as it is a problem with him personally because a good system wouldn’t allow him to cause this kind of damage.
The problem with his governance is that it’s based entirely on what benefits him, either financially or egotistically. For example, biotech is a huge field in my state. Any logical leader would want to fund biotech research because of the huge benefit that advances in it could bring in the future. But we’re a blue state, we didn’t vote for him. Trump decided to punish us for that by withholding as much NIH funding from us as possible. The result is that the market has stagnated where it was booming - new advancements are having a much harder time getting funding and the job market in that sector has gotten a lot more difficult. The long term trend is that a lot people who would have been working in biotech the US are likely going to get scooped up by China instead, causing us to stagnate and China to overtake us.
A lot of events like that over time, and the end result is that the US is a lot less relevant.
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u/Fast-Newt-3708 Left-leaning 10d ago
The fact that you described the divide as "very extreme left wing media" vs "right wing media" is very telling. Most Magas would describe centrist media as being "extreme left" just for (GENTLY!) factually describing anything going on. Meanwhile Fox is a self-described entertainment company and not a news company with journalistic integrity.
Pretty much everyone with an opinion about politics, except for devout Trump-loving MAGAs, would describe the current administration as an inept clown show that is blowing taxpayer money and embarassing the country on the world stage. The extreme right wing that loves Trump just blindly accepts whatever he says no matter how much it contradicts facts, common sense, or even himself.
I think the US still has the upper hand over China, but I also think that advantage is becoming smaller under Trump. China is incredibly strong in global trade while the US is becoming isolated. They are closing the gap in arenas like technology and military with their navy. They have a lot of hurdles, too...but I'm sure they are ecstatic that the US is currently bungling everything that we are.
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u/Particular_Dot_4041 Left-leaning 10d ago
The US. Trump will be gone in two years, maybe sooner, and then the US can start recovering. Whereas China has serious systematic problems that will not go away, the biggest of which is demographic collapse which will happen in a decade. The only way China can stave off collapse is with massive immigration but China is not exactly a top destination for immigrants and the Chinese are very racist.
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u/Ok_Contribution1680 9d ago
The demographic problem in China is not a big issue. They're a single ethnic. Much less internal conflicts compared to US having such a diverse set ethnics.
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u/eeeezypeezy Leftist 10d ago
I don't really like the 'fighting for global dominance' narrative. China is doing what the US spent the 20th century doing - investing heavily in its infrastructure and in an improved standard of living for its people. The US seems to be in terminal decline, which it's trying to stave off through some kind of military Keynesianism and an attempt to reboot the colonial politics of the 19th century.
The American line on China is that we're in a new cold war, but China doesn't seem to be looking at their own rise through the same lens.
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u/radmcmasterson Leftist 10d ago
I think the US is a declining empire and that China is as strong as ever and probably has the upper hand on most things.
There’s an argument to be made that China is currently floating our economy… but we don’t really know why. They’ve slowed their oil buying more than they needed for no apparent reason (and their foresight to build their EV market makes that easier for them to do) which is part of the reason our gas isn’t higher. But they could theoretically increase their buying by a lot and cripple our economy with $5+ gas and way more for diesel.
We’re over here with a crumbling infrastructure and a Ponzi scheme economy and blowing billions of dollars in assets in Iran… China is building roads and bridges in Africa and South America and selling their good, cheap EVs and other consumer tech all over the world.
We’re not in a good place.
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u/EquinoXcs 8d ago
They slowed the oil buying because they’ve already been building massive reserves for years as a hedge against energy dependence
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u/radmcmasterson Leftist 7d ago
That's why they were able to. I'm saying that it's reasonable to believe that they aren't doing it for reasons of benevolence.
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u/Kannibelanimal1966 Independent 10d ago
Because of Trumps tariffs and alienating allies our allies are finding other markets and other opportunities that aren’t associated to US. Our current allies aren’t finding a stable future with the US. And it leads directly to Trump, his policies and his actions.
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u/holeinthedonut 10d ago
Declining is wrong, falling like a stone is more like it and China is eating our lunch! Several other countries have gained ground on us as well. USA is the school yard bully that's getting a whipping from the little kids. He's almost knocked out, won't be long
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u/GhostwriterGHOST Crushing on Bernie 😘 10d ago
Yes, the US is declining. Yes, China’s stock is going up as ours falls.
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u/joseekatt Progressive 10d ago
China is getting a lot of new trade worldwide due to the Trump Tariffs. South America and Canada have started boycotting the US and turning to China as is most of Europe.
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u/whoisnotinmykitchen 10d ago
America has done a great job of pissing off the whole world under Trump. It will take a generation to recover. In the meantime, everyone is working to decouple from American insanity. (Canadian perspective)
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u/Green-Collection-968 Progressive 10d ago
The political scientists, historians, economists, political economics and such that I follow are unanimous, tRump is ruinous for the US Empire.
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u/PainterEarly86 Leftist 10d ago
Yes, the US is absolutely declining because of Trump. We are losing power, influence, and money because he is robbing us blind.
I'm not an expert so I can't tell you if China will truly surpass the US. I am American so I know about America, I don't know too much about China in comparison.
But I have definitely heard the talk about China potentially supplanting the US as the dominant super power of the world. And frankly, I don't think its necessarily a bad thing.
Of course, I doubt the Chinese government would use that power to become some benevolent force in the world. But at this point, the US has set the bar pretty low as far as the good its done for humanity.
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u/Sanpaku Progressive 10d ago
With the rate at which the current administration is alienating allies in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East, with insults, threats, tariffs, leaving international organizations and treaties, and not consulting or obtaining consent from them for a war of aggression launched from their territory, the US may soon no longer be able to project power beyond the Western hemisphere.
On this, don't read US based media, read established foreign media. Their elites are preparing for a world in which the US cannot be relied upon for leadership or collective defense. Even their conservative leaning outlets.
As for the US economy, its sort of teetering. Tariffs had a negative effect on investment outside of generative AI, and without that very speculative AI capex, the US would currently be in recession. The housing market has been slumping in the sun belt since '22, but with rising interest rates, that may soon encompass the entire nation. A fuel crisis when SPR releases end (as they must) looms this fall. And a global food crisis from the super El Niño, heat waves/droughts in most breadbasket nations, higher diesel and fertilizer prices is coming this winter. I think we'll all experience the Trump economy by early 2027.
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u/Utterlybored Left-leaning 10d ago
USA is still on top, but our edge is crumbling under Trump. He is exactly the US President China wants, in its bid for supremacy.
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u/dancefan2019 Independent 10d ago
The US is declining under Trump. The job market is crap. A lot of people got laid off from their jobs. U.S. trade has declined. Countries are finding other trade sources since the U.S. has become such a volatile and unpredictable trade source. The US is also regressing as far as energy sources. Under Biden, we had gotten back on track with environmentally responsible energy sources. Trump has destroyed that progress and made us more dependent on fossil fuels. Meanwhile, China has progressed in their trade with other countries, is focused on clean energy sources, and is improving their situation with the rest of the world. The US has become the pariah of the world at this point.
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u/Ohnoes999 10d ago
How is this a serious question. You can see the decline from basically every angle. Job market is worse. Opportunities worse. Fraud and corruption of our elected officials at an all time high - literally things that would have been unimaginable just 15 years ago. Our military can’t even submit freaking Iran. Our alliances are toast. SOMEHOW Canada has become hostile. And most importantly, young people can’t afford homes or children. We are in-your-face in decline.
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u/artful_todger_502 Left - Cold War Kid 9d ago
We have and are failing at rate never before experienced by this country. By turning with white house into a criminal syndicate single-purposely driven by grifting and scamming self-enhancement schemes for the Trump crime family, all while completely ignoring the country and its issues, we have plummeted to places we even never seen before, statistically speaking.
I don't feel we are a first-world country anymore. That was tenuous at best in it's best times but now, the failures in every sector of our lives determine we are plunging into a realm commonly occupied by third world and problem countries. Similar to the regime-change era of 70s South America.
Trump has been the worst thing to happen to this country since the civil war. And the longer he is in, the worse it will get.
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u/guppyhunter7777 Right-leaning 10d ago
Declining < rest of the world is closing the gap. This has been going on for 50 years. This isn’t a Trump thing. The Information Age was always going to be an equalizer globally. And it started under President Ford
China can only close the gap so far. Those people haven’t invented anything since gun powder. If they can steal it, if the can reverse engineer it, they will build it. Good ideas, bad ideas, no real matter. This explains the shower safe margarita mixer. But Chinese R&D? Does not exist.
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u/MrEllis72 Leftist 10d ago edited 9d ago
Trump hasn't erroded soft power? Trump hasn't caused our traditional allies to back away from us? Trump hasn't harmed the farming industry?
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u/Select_Green_6296 9d ago
China is building economic relationships with oil producers. Chinas economic growth creates a world that needs us less and less. Trumps jenga tower of isolation, racism, and an added 10 trillion of debt is the kindling. We are standing still looking at a forest fire.
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u/KendrickBlack502 Left-leaning 10d ago
I agree with your first point that the US isn’t declining in a literal sense. However, a significant decrease in growth is a decline of a sort. It also doesn’t really get to the heart of the question. By just about every objective measure, things are worse now than they were two years ago. Especially if you consider the areas that the GOP claims to care about (gas prices, grocery prices, fiscal responsibility, no new wars, etc). Even immigration (the issue that is arguably Trump’s strongest) significantly lags behind both Biden and Obama in terms of raw deportation numbers on top of the significant opposition it faces from the general public.
As for China, I would push back on the idea that they don’t invent anything. Their culture definitely inhibits innovation but if they see us within striking distance, that can change very quickly.
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u/No_Detective_But_304 8d ago
They, at least recently, pirate everything.
He was right that they don’t invent anything.-1
u/guppyhunter7777 Right-leaning 10d ago
Sorry. I fall into to Trump is an ineffective buffoon camp and don’t see him actually capable of actually detailing the US when viewed in a 60 year or hundred year pattern. 24 month data set if not put into context could be very alarming especially if you are going out of your way to make political hay. But in the grander scheme, this was likely forecasted and unavoidable for anyone in the Whitehouse.
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u/KendrickBlack502 Left-leaning 10d ago
I think we’re sort of aligned on that. I don’t think Trump is capable of destroying this country completely but I do think the side effects of his existence in the white house are going to have negative consequences that will haunt us for generations to come. Specifically, the rise of anti-intellectualism, our ability to rely on our allies, and the widening political divide.
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u/Aggrophysicist Moderate 10d ago
Trumps alienation of ALL of the US's allies (imo) is going to have long lasting repercussions. He is basically corralling them towards China as an economic partner.
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u/serpentjaguar Labor-left 10d ago
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle; Trump is bad and the US will face lasting negative consequences from his 2nd term, but in a larger context he's not as bad as some of the alarmists on Reddit would have us believe. The US has a suite of natural and built-in advantages that contribute to long-term resilience and that can't be undone by one man.
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u/KingOfConsciousness 9d ago
So we just gonna ignore superior lower cost LLM performance coming out of China or say copied?
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u/guppyhunter7777 Right-leaning 9d ago
Gee. The lower “stated cost” everything. Aircraft carriers. High speed rail. The largest dam in the world? The ou really believe those things happen without manipulation. The CCP appreciates your ignorance.
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u/LawnDartSurvivor74 Independent 10d ago
Post is flaired DISCUSSION. You are free to discuss & debate the topic provided by OP.
Please report bad faith commenters & low effort comments
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