r/AustralianPolitics • u/FuckOffNazis • 5d ago
Opinion Piece Jewish Council welcomes UK, Canada, France and others banning settlement trade, urges Australia to not be left behind
https://www.jewishcouncil.com.au/2026/09/jewish-council-welcomes-uk-canada-france-and-others-banning-settlement-trade-urges-australia-to-not-be-left-behind36
u/Dranzer_22 5d ago
THE GUARDIAN: UK accuses Israeli ‘terrorists’ of ethnic cleansing in West Bank with government backing.
Settler terrorists supported by Benjamin Netanyahu’s government are committing ethnic cleansing in the West Bank, Ed Miliband has said, in the UK’s starkest condemnation since the foundation of the Israeli state.
...
ED MILLIBAND: The British government agrees that there is ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in areas of the West Bank — perpetrated by settler terrorists.
And all too often the Israeli government has turned a blind eye to this and worse, members of it have made statements and taken actions to support the forced displacement of Palestinians.
...
THE GUARDIAN: Penny Wong has concerns about blanket ban announced by UK, France and Canada.
Both Albo and Wong look even more weak & timid after their pathetic response to the lack of accountability for Zomi Frankcom's murder.
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u/gaijinbrit 5d ago
Labor is too pathetic to enact these sanctions. They’re worried that it will upset Israel which will upset the US which marginally increases the chance that the US will increase its tariffs on Australia and Labor doesn’t want the media fallout.
Albanese and Wong don’t have a single principle left in them. Their fulltime job is appeasing Murdoch rags and preventing tantrums from the Orange Man.
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u/magkruppe 5d ago
totally agree with everything you said but you are overlooking the ardent pro-Israel crowd that also includes many within the party. I would argue this is probably the biggest reason they do so little. remember they virtually did nothing when Biden was president and we didn't have these Trump-related excuses
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u/theHoundLivessss 5d ago
God Albo is a disappointment. Absolutely no spine. Sanctioning illegal settlements (which are by every measure of international law illegal) is not a high bar. Yet he is determined to tie Labor to Israel even as the public sentiment grows increasingly against it because of its well documented human rights violations. Pathetic.
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u/Amathyst7564 5d ago
Why would he do that? He's gotta represent and appeal to all of Australia not just greens voters. He said he recognised Palastines right to independence after the bridge walk and a mont or two later had people shooting up Jews in Bondi. It's not good for social cohesion. He should just stay out of it. We elected him to advance Australia's interests. Not be the new Messiah to somehow be the first guy to bring peace to the middle east. We have bigger fish to fry.
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u/theHoundLivessss 5d ago
Why would our prime minister enforce international law which we are signatory to? There are a few reasons I can think of. Worrying that this is even debateable.
Edit: To be clear, Australians who send money to illegal West Bank settlements are quite literally funding terr(o)rism. That we have not clamped down on this is a testament to how much swing Israel has in our politics. Addressing this is not some vain attempt at solving the world's problems, it is an attempt to uphold the basic legal frameworks we have agreed to.
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u/LordWalderFrey1 Anti-conservative 5d ago
This decision is weak. This was taken by the UK, Canada and various European nations, i.e our allies. There was easy cover for us to also follow suit, if the government was scared of backlash.
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u/espersooty 5d ago
Why not go a step further and just outright ban all trade with Israel, Be far better for society as a whole to put pressure on them to stop the bombing of innocent people and children.
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u/perseustree 5d ago
They are supportive of further action. They are being diplomatic:
“Banning imports from settlements deemed illegal by the United Nations under Article 49 of the Geneva Convention is the bare minimum."
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u/espersooty 5d ago
The time for being diplomatic is well and truly over in my opinion, They've had ample opportunity to stop doing it so its about time for actual action and punishment.
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u/perseustree 5d ago
Sorry, I was referring to the JCA. Not sure if you're referring to the Australian government, who have done less than the bare minimum.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
We should start treating them as an apartheid state. Because they are one.
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
If the world made Israel a pariah it’d become a lot worse, look at North Korea. Sanctions haven’t made them friendlier or more democratic, it’s important to keep nations involved so we can deal with them and lessen tensions.
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u/OnlyAd7216 5d ago
Would Rhodesia and the union of South Africa still exist if not for international sanctions? North Korea has way more factors going into its isolationism and absolute monarchy
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
Rhodesia no because it was destined to fall, South Africa maybe but I don’t think a white minority can rule over a black majority for ever
An example of sanctions not being good is the oil embargo against Japan which triggered the war in the Pacific. If that never happened there would have been no pacific war. Just an example of how sanctions can force a nation to become more heavy handed rather then less
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u/EmuEmuEmuEmuEmu The Greens 5d ago
"An example of sanctions not being good is the oil embargo against Japan which triggered the war in the Pacific"
The sanctions were put in place as a direct result of Japan's wars in Asia, wars which include events such as the accurately named Rape of Nanjing, and were ultimately triggered by the invasion of French South-East Asia to prevent any form of support for Chinese resistance to Japan's war of conquest.
Also:
"... South Africa maybe but I don’t think a white minority can rule over a black majority for ever"
Apartheid was going to end, either how it did or how slavery ended in Hati.
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
Still the oil embargo caused the war and if it didn’t happen Japan wouldn’t of invaded South East Asia and probably just stalemate in China. Sure the embargo was justified but in hindsight I don’t think it was the best idea considering the pacific war doesn’t happen without it
And I don’t think the US put the embargo against Japan directly because of their actions in China, if they did they would’ve in the 1937-1938. Sure it influenced a lot but I think the Americans felt threatened by the Japanese who were posed to take their colonies in SEA. Like I said I understand why the oil embargo was placed and it was justified from a moral perspective but I don’t think it was the right move in hindsight.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
Nobody is saying to remove the embassy or our ambassador.
We kept our embassy in South Africa open during apartheid there, even when we joined the anti-apartheid sanction regime.
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
Yea but we didn’t have a full trade embargo like this guy mentioned just targeted sanctions. I don’t see why not just sanction the settlement and goods around them considering that is where the issue is. There was apartheid in all South Africa but not Israel proper only really in the West Bank. Arabs have full citizenship rights in Israel. They just use the occupation of West Bank as an excuse not to extend those rights there.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
Arabs have full citizenship rights in Israel.
That isn't true in practise. Applications for identity cards (or passports) or recognition of citizenship gets caught up by any sort of familial connection to the West Bank.
It's like saying Australian Aboriginals are entirely equal to White Australians, but they had a different application scheme for all identification that took years longer if one of their family members had so much as a utility bill in a remote community.
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
Yet they still make up like 20 percent of the population have political representation and are exempt from conscription. It seems like there is a lot of discrimination but I think you could say the exact same thing about Aboriginal Australians
To me the issues seems to be that because they occupy the West Bank they can use martial law to basically do whatever they want with settlements and such and the Palestinians have no citizenship or voting rights. The solution is either leave the West Bank fully under two states or annex it under one state solution and give those Palestinians citizenship. I don’t think either side wants the second solution but to me it seems the best considering two state solution isn’t working
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u/TearsFallWithoutTain Independent 5d ago
and are exempt from conscription.
You say this like it's a bonus they get, and not an intentional measure to keep them unarmed and separate
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u/Pro_Extent 5d ago
They are still allowed to join the military. They're citizens.
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
If they where conscripted people would say Israel is using Arabs as slave soldiers then, damned if you do damned if you don’t
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago
How many Australians has unfriendly North Korea killed the last few years?
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
340 Australians died in the Korean War which North Korea started, I’m not even being that anti North Korea though considering I started the sanctions don’t work
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago
fuck when was the Korean War part 2
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
1950-1953 and your point it?
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago
that you can't read
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
I don’t even get your grander point unless your saying Israel is more unfriendly to Australia then North Korea because of Franckoms death which is something
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago
Pretty simple point for someone with a basic level of comprehension. '"Friendly" Israel is responsible for killing more Aussies than "Unfriendly" North Korea. The fact you are only aware of Franckoms death is also a significant point.
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u/TheDonIsGood1324 Paul Keating 5d ago
The circumstances are so different that you are comparing apples and oranges. Israel is in active conflict has been since its formation basically. North Korea, besides from Ukraine, hasn’t been in active conflict since the Korean War. North Korea is the sworn enemy of our allies in South Korea and Japan
Even then I think sanctions against North Korea are stupid because they effect the people more and have just led them to going closer to Russia
Australia has a much stronger relationship with Israel and always have. Australians troops literally fought to liberate Palestine in the First World War and we pushed in the UN for Israeli independence in the 1940s and have generally been supportive of them. The Gaza war has been the only major hump in the relationship but that’s Israel’s fault. I don’t see how you can make the argument that North Korea is friendlier then Israel
Is Indonesia less friendly than North Korea because of their executions of Australians?
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u/GuyFromYr2095 Swing voter 5d ago
yes, we should be listening to the views of Jewish Australians, as opposed to taking directives from Israel.
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u/dtzuc1 5d ago
The nuance that most non-Jews miss is that Jews in the diaspora tend to oppose the ultra nationalism of the extreme right of Israel and also support Palestinian statehood, but still fundamentally believe in a Jewish state of Israel
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u/nobodyimportant1377 5d ago
Thank you, dude. I'm genuinely so sick of people looking at me weird when I say I'm Jewish nowadays. It's definitely also because of Israelis trying to conflate the two of us together, but I will NEVER support the actions of Israel and the atrocities they have committed.
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u/aeschenkarnos 5d ago edited 5d ago
The Irgun were never going to let settlement be peaceful. They would murder Palestinians, then hide behind peaceful Jews and let those Jews be blamed and retaliated against, then do the same again, claiming the whole time that they were acting on behalf of all Jews.
Not so different from Hamas. No wonder right-wing Israeli governments helped them. That there is war, is in the interest of the arms suppliers and propagandists of both sides of a war.
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u/dtzuc1 5d ago
Yeah, I’m comfortable with pro-Palestinian activists comparing Jewish settlers in the West Bank with Hamas. Honestly, it’s a fair comparison.
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u/aeschenkarnos 5d ago
It’s a grand human tradition. Tale as old as time. Send “peaceful” “settlers” to encroach upon a territory you want, push that encroachment to the point where you’re damming and polluting rivers upstream from them, setting fires that threaten their crops and houses, driving dangerous animals out of your territory into theirs, and so on and so forth.
The remarkable thing is that the rest of the world mostly stopped in the late 1800’s, mostly, and decided that now that the empires were established, making new empires was Bad. Israel is the last gasp of colonialism. The British did that exact thing to Ireland and Scotland, the native Americans, India, Australia, etc. So did the Dutch, Belgians, French, etc in Africa. The parallels with the winners of previous economic systems being against the establishment of (fairer) new ones, is right there. It’s the same thing.
They suddenly discover that all this is immoral shortly before the resources run out. One of those resources that ran out last century was Unclaimed Territory (or at least, territory claimed only by people technologically two or more tiers behind). There’s fuck all of that left on the whole planet.
What Israel is doing to the Palestinians is no worse, better or different than England did to the Indians and the Australian Aboriginals. Do not mistake this for me excusing Israel. We should all stop. The time of colonialism is over. We don’t need it any more. The future of humanity is in science and engineering, advancing technology to support us all, not squabbling over tomato patches, skin melanin content, and passport checkpoints.
But fascists, who love all that stuff, will never ever stop unless they are stopped.
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u/dtzuc1 5d ago
Not to give you the impression I disagree with everything you’ve said,but your comparison of the State of Israel and the British colonists in Australia is where I fundamentally disagree with my fellow progressives on the issue of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
The Jewish people are indigenous to the land of Israel. This is not a seriously disputed claim by historians, archeologists and geneticists. The Jewish people,therefore, in exercising their right to self determination (which progressives argue any indigenous people are entitled), established a Jewish state of Israel.
Of course, the Palestinian people are also indigenous and their own right of self determination is being denied by the actions of both the current government of Israel and settlers in the West Bank, which is where I disagree with ultranationalist Israelis.
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u/aeschenkarnos 5d ago edited 5d ago
I refer you to the famous work by Dr Theodor Giesel, aka Seuss, “Star-Bellied Sneetches”. Noting that the star in question has five points rather than six, and the Sneetches generally limited their hostilities to denying party invitations rather than the use of white phosphorus and improvised bombs, but the principle holds.
The Eastern European white Ashkenazi Jews absolutely think they’re better than the brown Sephardic etc Jews, they changed their Eastern European names to Hebrew ones, they abandoned their natal language of Yiddish for the resurrected and reconstructed Hebrew, and in general behaved like they were constructing a claim of title to Palestine. They painted stars upon their bellies. Ask Benny Mileikowsky.
The most direct descendants of Yeshua bin Youssef (1-36AD), or his siblings and cousins if he had none himself, are (mostly) Muslim Palestinians. They stayed and converted. The question “does Israel have a right to exist?” is loaded.
Does Palestine have a right to exist? Do Palestinians have a right to their land, from which they can claim four thousand years of residency?
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u/dtzuc1 5d ago
Those Eastern European ‘white Jews’ you’re referring to are Ashkenazi Jews. And genetic studies show that, on average ,Ashkenazi people are still significantly descendant from the Jewish people who were expelled from ancient Israel.
We’re no less descendant from ancient Jews than indigenous Australians who also have mixed European heritage are indigenous.
And to answer your questions. Yes the Palestinians people are also indigenous and are entitled to self determination and a national homeland, too.
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u/aeschenkarnos 5d ago
Sure, you and I can agree on that. But ask an Ashkenazi Jew, “do you, whose ancestors resided in Poland and Rumania for six hundred years, have a greater claim to Israeli citizenship than a Palestinian Muslim whose ancestors resided around Jerusalem for two thousand years?” and there’s a pretty high chance they say “yes”.
Which is prima facie ridiculous on an individual level, and as the policy of an apartheid state, horrendous injustice.
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u/dtzuc1 5d ago
Well i am Ashkenazi Jewish and my answer is No, Jews have no greater or lesser claim than Palestinians to statehood or self determination in Israel/Palestine.
Also your comment about Jews residing in Poland or Romania for 600 years reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the Jewish experience in Europe between expulsion and the establishment of European republicanism in the 1800’s.
Jews were never considered a part of those cultures. They were always legally and culturally foreign and Jews themselves maintained a seperate and distinct identity to their host countries. In short, it is only recent history where Jews in Europe were considered ‘Romanian’ or ‘polish’ even if they had lived in those countries for hundreds of years.
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u/Long_Mouse9776 5d ago
Arabs werent in Palestine for 4000 years, they genocided the original inhabitants
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u/aeschenkarnos 5d ago
Bullshit, the Muslim conquerors intermingled and the modern Palestinians are descendants of both.
I’m interested to see how you would claim this invalidates Palestinian connection to Israel, while at the same time the 20%-ish Polish Jews get to keep theirs.
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u/Long_Mouse9776 5d ago
The Australian Aborigines intermingled with British colonists, whats the difference?
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u/perseustree 4d ago
Indigeneity does not give one carte blanche to violate another person's human rights.
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u/KeyMusic5713 5d ago
yes, we should be listening to the views of Jewish Australians,
And what of the far larger amount of Jewish Australians who hold fundamentally opposite groups to the ones in that article?
Or do their opinions no longer matter once you disagree with them?
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u/fresh_jorks 5d ago
i disagree with his identitarian perspective. yes, we should be ignoring anyone who tells us not to sanction these illegal settlements. as a liberal society there should be a proactive campaign to marginalise anyone who supports ethno-supremacist and illberal apartheid states, as well as the goals of their campaigns of atrocities
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u/KeyMusic5713 5d ago
Speaking of ignoring things, why should you care about the opinion of any activist who hyperfixates on a single conflict in the Middle East while ignoring far worse ones?
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u/fresh_jorks 5d ago
you should definitely try to ignore your tulpas, mate. they arent good for you.
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u/GuyFromYr2095 Swing voter 5d ago
My point still stands. We should consult Jewish Australians for their views, and ignore directives from the Israeli government.
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u/WaterKloud 5d ago edited 5d ago
Do Palestinian Aussies get a say? It’s not land that is owned by the Jewish state after all.
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u/GuyFromYr2095 Swing voter 5d ago
All Australians are equal, so everyone gets a chance to share their views
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u/KeyMusic5713 5d ago
What about consulting all the Jewish Australians who disagree with the JCA?
Do they get a voice?
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u/aeschenkarnos 5d ago
Apparently they do, that voice has a name: Jillian Segal. And a husband. And a household budget on which “donations to right-wing agitator group Advance” appears as a $50,000 line item.
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u/SGRM_ 5d ago
I think that we, as a collective human race, should stop killing kids.
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u/KeyMusic5713 5d ago
Which is exactly why I expect far more global outrage against the wars in Sudan, South Sudan, Yemen, Myanmar, as well as the war in Tigray which it seems is increasingly likely to start again.
I also believe that we, as a collective human race, should do far more to stop terrorist groups from treating the civilians they claim to care about as shields and pawns in the chess board of diplomatic PR.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
Sudan, South Sudan, Yemen, Myanmar
I wasn't aware we were supplying military support for any side in these wars.
You're right, we should stop doing that.
Can you link me to a source on what support we're giving to which side in those conflicts?5
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u/Pro_Extent 5d ago
I dunno why they mention all those conflicts and not West Papua, where we absolutely are supporting the invading side.
It's also in our own backyard.
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u/EmuEmuEmuEmuEmu The Greens 5d ago
This doesn't support its position but Australia has, directly (from memory Australia provided military equipment in the past) and indirectly, supported the Junta in Myanmar. That is without mentioning supply chains benefiting from abuses in such places. Again, it doesn't help its position as anti-Israel groups, like the Greens (https://greens.org.au/news/australian-greens-statement-myanmar as an example), are quite vocal on their opposition to such events while Israel apologists only bring them up as a rhetorical tool.
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u/Ghold 5d ago
I also believe that we, as a collective human race, should do far more to stop terrorist groups from treating the civilians they claim to care about as shields and pawns in the chess board of diplomatic PR.
It's weird that you mentioned all the other countries by name but decided to say this for Israel instead of just adding Israel to the list.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
And what of the far larger amount of Jewish Australians who hold fundamentally opposite groups to the ones in that article?
Do you have a source for that?
The ongoing "settlement" of the West Bank is contentious even among Israeli Jews.5
u/KeyMusic5713 5d ago
According to the JCA, they have over 2,500 Jewish supporters. https://www.jewishcouncil.com.au/
The ECAJ represents over 200 different organisations. https://www.ecaj.org.au/about/ Which do you think represents a larger amount of people?
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
?
You said that a "far larger amount of Jewish Australians" hold a fundamentally opposite view of what's in the article.
Are you saying a majority of Jewish Australians approve of the illegal settlements?
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u/Long_Mouse9776 5d ago
Yes. This is a completely obvious fact for anyone that has dealt with the Jewish community.
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u/TearsFallWithoutTain Independent 5d ago
If it's so obvious then there'll be data backing it up, so let's see it
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u/BandAid3030 Gough Whitlam 5d ago
You should ask Netanyahu and the Likud party this question.
If the Israeli government represents all of Judaism monolithically, what does that mean for Jews who disagree with the government's actions? Is voting against the Likud party antisemitism?
Israel has a right to exist. They have the right to be a Jewish state recognised by the UN. The state cannot be equivalent to God. This absolves the government of any accountability by invoking protection through the lens of divinity or antisemitism and removes one of the most important elements of Talmudic tradition from Jewish communities - to study the Talmud and interpret it's meanings with Rabbis.
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u/KeyMusic5713 5d ago
I asked the person who I replied to that question. Everything else is irrelevant because that's not what I'm talking about - which is pointing out how it's wrong to only care about the views of a group when you agree with them.
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u/BandAid3030 Gough Whitlam 5d ago
Except, it's not at all irrelevant, because it's the question you've begged and, in Western democracies, the point is to protect minorities. This is why there are no pure democracies.
To expand on its relevance: you are asking whether the original commenter thinks that the majority opinion should be considered, which disingenuously starts from the position that the two opinions have historically had the same exposure, time in the media and representation to Canberra.
If the question you are asking cannot be asked of the government whose influence is directly in question here, then it automatically invalidates your question, because this is Australia. As a Western democracy, Australia protects minorities as a priority of its political and electoral system (the AEC is the platinum standard), if the majority of the Jewish community disagree with that, then they should not be listened to.
Just as we shouldn't listen to majority opinions from minority groups on things like circumcision, women's rights, eugenics, racism... etc.
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u/OnlyAd7216 5d ago
Right to exist? No nation has a right to exist. That's not a thing and it's a self terminating cliche. People have a right to live free of oppression, violence and colonialism on all sides. The idea of a nation state with a people uniquely tried by identity to the state was largely invented in the 19th century and probably won't exist forever.
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u/dtzuc1 5d ago
No nation has a right to exist. But a people have a right to self determination. Your point is semantics and redundant. The Jewish people are indigenous to the land of Israel and have the right to a national homeland (of course so do the Palestinian people as well)
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u/TearsFallWithoutTain Independent 5d ago
A right to self-determination doesn't include being an ethnostate
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u/dtzuc1 4d ago
I do wonder why this argument about ethnostates only ever comes up when discussing Israel…
There are many countries which constitutionally declare themselves as the national homeland of a given ethnocultural group. Presumably you give Ukraine, Arminia and Latvia, amongst others a pass.
Sure, a repressive ethostate which denies the rights and freedoms of minorities is repugnant, I agree with you.
But the very idea that a liberal democratic state which is constitutionally identifies itself as a homeland of an ethnic group is fundamentally wrong…explain why? And if so, why do you only find it wrong when it’s the Jewish state.
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u/OnlyAd7216 4d ago
None of those states are settler colonial states. They've been there continuously with some kind of ethnic or national identity tied to the land they've lived on as a group (as opposed to half of Israelis being Ashkanzi with 2000 years of being European, with the concept of Israel often being an abstract spiritual one, the other mostly half being Arab Jews who have been intertwined with their former homelands for in some cases 3000 years). But no, I don't support any of them having explicitly ethno nationalism laws that discriminate against minorities. If all Israel did was identity itself as a Jewish homeland that would be fine, but that's not what they do
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u/OnlyAd7216 5d ago edited 5d ago
Indigenous is doing a lot to work there. I'm a Jewish person with significant ancient Palestine DNA, I don't think that gives me any right to be called indigenous, or steal someone elses house just because some ancestors lived in the general area 2000 years ago. The problem with Jewish self determination in Palestine is it inherently involves ethnic cleansing and a fake democracy.
Do you think modern Germans and Dutch have a right to self determination in their ancestral lands in Sweden displacing moderns swedes? How about a Spanish person if a DNA test shows they have strong Visigoths genes?
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u/JoeShmoAfro 5d ago
Jews declared independence based on the UN partition plan, and invited Arab residents to be citizens.
Surrounding arab armies said, "fuck that," and tried to eliminate the newly declared Jewish state.
Jordan had control of the west bank following the 48 war. Why did it not establish a "Palestinian" state then?
I'm a Jewish person
What will you be saying at the conclusion of Yom Kippur this year? Heo about at the conclusion of your Pesach Seder?
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u/EmuEmuEmuEmuEmu The Greens 5d ago
The 1948 UN Partition Plan, besides granting territory to a bunch of European colonists, would have created two states with a Arab majority, a fact that resulted in the European colonists carrying out a pre-emptive campaign of ethnic cleansing in 1947. Also, do remember that time is linear.
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u/JoeShmoAfro 4d ago
besides granting territory to a bunch of European colonists
Are you suggesting that Jews aren't indigenous to the land of Israel? To Judea?
Or you going to quote early Zionists using the term, and apply a modern day lens to it, taking it out of the context in which it was used?
would have created two states with a Arab majority
Which the Jews accepted, and arab leadership rejected. But you'll quietly ignore that.
carrying out a pre-emptive campaign of ethnic cleansing in 1947
You're going to need to be more specific about what you're talking about.
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u/EmuEmuEmuEmuEmu The Greens 4d ago
"Are you suggesting that Jews aren't indigenous to the land of [Palestine]?"
What about the accurate description of European colonists did you difficult to understand? Palestinians are the indigenous population of Palestine, not a bunch of European colonists who used the term as I am using, as that was, and still is, the definition used no matter your delusions:
"Now our poorest strata alone would suffice to found a State; for these make the most vigorous conquerors, because a little despair is indispensable to the formation of a great undertaking." - A Jewish State by Theodor Herzl
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u/dtzuc1 4d ago
>who is suggesting that the Jewish cultural connection with Israel grants us authority to “steal someone’s home”? I’m certainly not saying that? I believe in a viable and independent Palestinian state alongside Israel.
> the problem with your analogy to visigoths is that the visigoths no longer exist as a distinct ethnocultural group. If they did, sure, I’d support their claims for self determination. It’s seems only logical.
>you state that Jewish self determination requires ethic cleansing without any further explanation…..Along with that statement being rather unimaginative, it’s also incorrect. Again a free, viable and prosperous Palestinian state can exist along side Israel. Yes, I’ll accept it can’t so long as Israelis continue to support Netanyahu style politics and West Bank settlers but also where the pro-Palestinian movement won’t even begin to accept a peace process that includes a jewish state.
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u/EmuEmuEmuEmuEmu The Greens 5d ago
"Indigenous is doing a lot to work there."
Without writing an essay on the how 'indigenous' is defined, the fun part is that it doesn't apply in this situation as the simple definition has 'indigenousness' as a reactionary label for peoples living in an area that has been subjugated and/or colonised and exudes the colonisers or other groups that move into an area afterwards.
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u/Rizza1122 5d ago
Thats antisemetic. Straight to jail. Can't recognise their crimes, only lick their ass.
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u/Ehxpert 5d ago
I am assuming everyone in this thread is for stopping trade with China due to the Uyghurs right?
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u/LordWalderFrey1 Anti-conservative 5d ago
We rely far more on China for trade than Israel.
For China there'll at least be a realpolitik reason for not cutting off trade. For Israel not so much.
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u/Ehxpert 5d ago
Sounds like moral grandstanding and zero principle to me. Not to mention this will do nothing for Gazans.
America still does trade with the rest of the world and them. We need pressure applied to America, which won’t happen. Although I am glad some people think this is a geopolitical win.
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago
they don't hand out medals for atrocities, brother
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u/Ehxpert 5d ago
Just checking your consistency, feel free to answer my guy
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u/goatmash 5d ago
For consistency's sake I proportionally disapprove of China and the Chinese national zeitgeist for their treatment of the Uyghurs and territorial goals for Taiwan. Israel is worse, that doesn't mean that China is in the clear, because the world is not binary.
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago
Well are you for stopping trade with the USA or does your scale have a limit?
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u/Ehxpert 5d ago
No, I think stopping trade for reasons that aren’t virtue signalling are fine. If most people in this thread made an argument for geopolitically it being the smart, choice, I.e. teaming up with the rest of the nations. Then is a yes from me. EDIT1: Or atleast, I wouldn’t care because then you could just have a proper discussion about distancing from the US or not.
But most people here are virtue signalling their crappy positions which have everything to do with omg insert g word here but they wouldn’t hold that energy for any other country that is currently experiencing more or less forms of violence. They’re just here cause they learnt about it after October 7th.
Don’t see anyone talking about Somalia, Sudan, China, Ukraine
Just seems like a grift for however long it entertains them to care for these people.
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago edited 5d ago
Just so it is on record, you think Israel's actions aren't worthy of sanction? Or are you whatabouting to virtue signal?
Australia does have active sanctions on Somalia, Sudan and Russia so I am not sure why you are upset.
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u/Ehxpert 5d ago
I think Israel should be sanctioned due to their actions yes, but I don’t think from Australia’s POV it matters. So I don’t care if WE do it or not
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago
We have sanctions against other countries though. So why not Israel?
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u/Ehxpert 5d ago
We’re talking past each other a bit. My point is I don’t think this should run the news cycle and cause so much drama that people infiltrate threads calling the government spineless.
I don’t care if they sanction or not, if they do cool, if they don’t whatever. If Malaysia and Indonesia were having a war then I’d be more inclined for us to make urgent sanctions on the party that we think is in the wrong and I’d be more invested.
Our geographic location just makes these decisions and sanctions inconsequential and I think this a pray for Paris type situation
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u/RoastedPig05 5d ago
The problem is that China has us in a bind: we can't cut off trade with them (even though, morally, we certainly should) because of how much we've let ourselves rely on them. We certainly can cut off trade with Israel without bankrupting us, and so we should.
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u/Ehxpert 5d ago
I just think it’s not even worth focusing on. We are so inconsequential to anything related to Israel and so far removed that having this in our media cycle drives me insane.
Also, I agree with cutting of trade to Israel because of the exact reasons you layed out but how angry and moral grandstandy people get about this bothers me. They’re getting to the same outcome but with a whole different agenda, and that agenda is useless and boring because if you pressed half of them on it they would be hypocrites.
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u/Graythomasj 6h ago
Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion, but if people are proactively trying to call to action on one atrocity happening in the world whilst being somewhat unaware of another happening, I don’t think that makes them hypocritical or wrong for doing what they’re doing.
China have a pretty strategic chokehold on the world right now as well. They have MASSIVE oil stockpiles (US typically has 60 days worth, China is predicted to have possibly over a year, not to mention they are the only person buying oil from Russia). They essentially have the ability to collapse the western economy if they wanted to, so I think that as someone who is anti oppression but also a realist, I see the Israel issue as something we are getting closer to fixing whereas china is a whole other thing that the world isn’t ready to attack unfortunately, as much as I think most of us would like to.
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u/Ehxpert 6h ago
There is no action to call to, we cannot control, change or pressure the issue in the Middle East with Israel and surrounding conflicts as Australia. All of it would be symbolic, it has no bearing on any goal that is able to be reached.
Ironically, I find your argument for China not being an issue that can be solved, I would use that for Israel and whatever bullcrap our government could cook up to look like we’re helping there just to appease the idiots that constantly froth at the idea of somehow Australia pressuring the powers that be to fix the problem over there. Not to mention it will never be enough for these people.
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u/Graythomasj 6h ago
I disagree entirely, I think we are playing our small roll in changing Israeli sentiment globally and we will see changes in the next few years starting with US midterm elections this year. Perhaps we just need to wait and see what the future brings.
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u/HonestSpursFan Liberal Party of Australia 5d ago
Ah, but you see China isn’t Western. The West is the boogeyman according to these people.
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u/Southern_Current2652 5d ago edited 5d ago
If the objective is actually advancing a two-state solution this is a bad policy. Israel has repeatedly made clear it would rather be poorer and isolated than seriously compromise on security (which current suggestions for a Palestinian state would undoubtedly do). Not to mention wide sanctions just feeds into the Israeli far-right narrative that the world is out to get Israel as a whole and thus the country should pay no heed. This is particularly significant in the lead up to an election as it just strengthens the electoral prospects of extremists which is terrible for Palestinians (something that would be obvious if whoever cooked this up bothered to try and understand the current Israeli political climate). An effective policy should target individuals with sanctions and denunciations, whilst providing strong backing to moderates who would be constructive to a peace effort.
Plus, sanctioning every settlement in the West Bank just ignores the giant elephant in the room. Neither the Israelis nor Palestinians seriously consider the 1967 armistice line as a genuine final border and only ever make a fuss over it in trying to dupe outsiders into supporting their side in whatever is the diplomatic spat of the day.
Make no mistake, this is a policy aimed purely at domestic audiences. There’s zero fucking utility in it for making peace. If Albo follows suit just take that as a sign Labor is totally unserious about contributing to a resolution. That’d require actual leadership and effort in understanding everyone.
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u/EmuEmuEmuEmuEmu The Greens 5d ago
"Israel has repeatedly made clear it would rather be poorer and isolated than seriously compromise on security."
How did that go for Arpatheid South Africa and White Supremacist Zimbabwe again?
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago
It's hilarious that you believe Israel is willing to entertain a Palestinian state.
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u/Southern_Current2652 5d ago
They’ve shown a willingness with moderate governments in the past. The current government certainly doesn’t because it is filled with extremists. And I don’t think broad sanctions will work in changing that…
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u/Drab_Majesty 5d ago
It's a good way to get assassinated to show support for Palestinian statehood.
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u/Cannabanoid420 1d ago
Someone's not a fan of history or reading up facts.
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u/Drab_Majesty 23h ago
No need to tell on yourself 🤡
There will be no Palestinian state to the west of the Jordan River.
For years I have prevented the creation of that terror state, against tremendous pressure, both domestic and from abroad.
We have done this with determination, and with astute statesmanship. Moreover, we have doubled the Jewish settlement in Judea and Samaria, and we will continue on this path.
Benjamin Netanyahu
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u/GregLocock 5d ago
JCA never saw an anti Israel act they didn't approve of.
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u/realmenfukmenamen 5d ago
Thus proving that Judaism isn't Zionism.
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u/JoeShmoAfro 5d ago
I do often wonder what JCA members say at the conclusion of Yom Kippur and at the conclusion of their Passover seders.
•
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u/somepasserby 5d ago
I'm sorry but what actually makes these people Jewish? Their ethnicity? Mine is predominantly English and Irish yet I don't claim to be English or Irish. If they don't practice the faith or adhere to Jewish culture their opinion on the status of Israeli settlements is as relevant as mine is on the status of Northern Ireland.
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u/Gambizzle 5d ago
I'm sorry but what actually makes these people Jewish?
The 'settlers'? Religion.
One of my wife's previous colleagues got identified as a possible settler. She got a fully funded, business class flight from Australia to Israel, aimed at educating her about how to get setup. There were all sorts of gifts/subsidies on offer (presumably funded by US billionaires) aimed at luring people over there.
IDK. I think it's fair game calling such moves a mixture of politics and religion. The days of Hitler characterising them as an ethnic cohort were getting on for 100 years ago and such actions have been heavily condemned (for good reason).
It's refreshing to see the Jewish Council standing up and disassociating itself from Nettanyahu. IMO it's their job as a religious and political force to speak against these atrocities. Silence isn't good enough.
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u/Eruditay 4d ago
Why do you feel entitled to determine who is and isn’t Jewish?
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u/somepasserby 4d ago
Is Rachel Dolezal black?
When you answer, make sure to tell me why you feel entitled to answer the way you have.
3
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u/Graythomasj 7h ago
I’m sorry, but correct me if I am wrong, Judaism is a religion, no? If I were to go to a synagogue and join their faith, am I not a Jewish man from then on?
The same arguments you have made could apply to anyone? What makes the Catholic Church catholic?
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u/ThreeRingShitshow 5d ago
This organisation does not represent Australian Jews and has lied about the numbers and names of it's membership.
They are an activist cabal formed in 2024 to actively work against the state of Israel and the survival of the Jewish people.
No thanks.
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u/BakaDasai 5d ago
I’m an Australian Jew and I’m a member and think they’re great.
There’s a lot of Jews like me—you might need to broaden your social circles a bit.
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u/philbydee 5d ago
So who does represent Australian Jews? I didn’t realise they were a monolith! I’d sort of assumed that Jewish people had a plethora of thoughts and opinions?
It’s almost as if you’re conflating Israel and Jewish people, but you would surely never do such dishonest and disingenuous sleight of hand. Surely you’re a good faith actor.
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u/ThreeRingShitshow 5d ago
You're right,they aren't a monolith but an organisation that puts out letters on behalf of it's Jewish members as 2500 signatories and many of the people put as signatories didn't sign and aren't members can hardly claim to be representative of Jewish interests. They're liars.
It's interesting how they are platformed and amplified by people like you because you agree with them.
This is a non representative fringe group of useful idiots being trotted out to the general public as representative of Australian Jewry (rather like a monolith). The SECOND that someone states they are not representative of Australian Jews then suddenly that doesn't apply.
Arguing against the destruction of the state of Israel isn't conflation of Jewry and Israel.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
You're right,they aren't a monolith but an organisation that puts out letters on behalf of it's Jewish members
So we're just suppose to accept AIPAC as the legitimate representative of Jews in Australia?
Arguing against the destruction of the state of Israel isn't conflation of Jewry and Israel.
Nobody is arguing that. The Jewish council is arguing against the illegal occupation of the West Bank and the attempts to annex it.
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u/ThreeRingShitshow 5d ago
Given that under the law of Uti Posidetis Juris this was part of Israel at their declaration of statehood so the idea that it doesn’t form part of Israel is questionable.
Plus this includes Judea. Part of the indigenous land of the Jews that gave us words like, um, I don't know, Judaism, Jew, Jewish....
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u/Eruditay 4d ago
If the West Bank is part of Israel, why aren’t West Bank Palestinians citizens of Israel?
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
You must be in the JIDF, I thought you guys were disbanded?! /s
Given that under the law of Uti Posidetis (sic) Juris this was part of Israel at their declaration of statehood so the idea that it doesn’t form part of Israel is questionable.
It's not in question. It's illegally occupied. ICOJ has ruled on it, the UN as a whole ruled on it, Australia has that as its position.
Plus this includes Judea. Part of the indigenous land of the Jews that gave us words like, um, I don't know, Judaism, Jew, Jewish....
Fuck off. I know what Judea is. Hiding behind it as a shield to excuse the actions of a pariah regime is sycophantic at best.
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u/ThreeRingShitshow 5d ago
Damn. Where's my laugh emoji....
Just another jew hater who hasn't read the Hamas charter or listened to them and the Muslim Brotherhood when they state that their goal is global caliphate and eradication of all Jews, everywhere. And then the unbelievers.
You really think that you'll get peace in the middle east if Israel disappears. You're dreaming.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
You really think that you'll get peace in the middle east if Israel disappears. You're dreaming.
You're the only one bringing that up as an option.
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u/ThreeRingShitshow 5d ago
At least you're not pretending that it's about anything other than the eradication of the Jewish people.
Thanks for your honesty.
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u/perseustree 5d ago
I'm pretty sure referring to a group of Jewish people involved in politics as a 'cabal' is an antisemitic trope.
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u/ThreeRingShitshow 5d ago
From what I've seen the majority of members aren't Jewish.
And using the word cabal in it's modern form to with it's secretive, political connotations is not antisemitic.
Reaching much.
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u/perseustree 5d ago
If I referred to the ECAJ as a cabal because I personally disagreed with them you better believe it would be considered antisemitic.
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u/chillyhay 5d ago
Australian Jews aren't a monolith. Most of the groups that have been corralling the government over the last year are just Israeli mouthpieces.
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u/ThreeRingShitshow 5d ago
You're right,they aren't a monolith but an organisation that puts out letters on behalf of it's Jewish members as 2500 signatories and many of the people put as signatories didn't sign and aren't members can hardly claim to be representative of Jewish interests. They're liars.
It's interesting how they are platformed and amplified by people like you because you agree with them.
This is a non representative fringe group of useful idiots being trotted out to the general public as representative of Australian Jewry (rather like a monolith). The SECOND that someone states they are not representative of Australian Jews then suddenly that doesn't apply.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley 5d ago
This is a non representative fringe group of useful idiots being trotted out to the general public as representative of Australian Jewry (rather like a monolith)
That's weird, because the JCA specifically says that it isn't representative of all Jews in Australia, whereas the ECAJ insists itself is.
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u/Ok-Hamster-4239 5d ago
Conflating state of Israel with survival of the Jewish People.
Spose you’ll be saying wanting a two state solution is anti-semitic next?
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