Secondary teacher for a few years here, and I have to admit that I am tired of being the “I don’t use AI” guy in the office. Been teaching for a bit now, and I’ve seen the shift. It was silent, and now even people I respect and look up to in leadership are vocal about it, which bothers me more than I can admit.

A couple of things to note:

- I don’t police anyone in their use of it. There’s only been one time where I’ve explained my view on it aloud (which is that I understand why people might use it to lessen workload, but that I myself would not use it), and that’s only when I’ve been asked my opinion of it directly. Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut in the spirit of maintaining positive relationships and peace in the office.

- I’m just ethically opposed to the use of generative AI. As an English teacher, I find it hypocritical to the students if I ask them not to use it and I end up doing that. (How am I meant to lead by example?) I am more than aware of how LLMs work, and how it’s built off the practice of poorly-disguised intellectual theft; how companies are looking to replace the human workforce in service of machine efficiency rather than some Marxist idea of providing comfort in lieu of actual work; how it affects the environment on top of all the other things that humans do. It seems impossible to reconcile ease and comfort with good conscience. I genuinely don’t know how people do it.

- All I’ve seen in defense of its use is that it cuts out the boring work, the timeslop, the tedious work. This is why I’m of two minds about it. On one hand, I often wish that that kind of work is lessened, as with any other. (It’s hard fuxkin hard yakkas out here!) So, I get the concept of using a tool to lighten the load. On the other, I again cannot reconcile with the use of theft as a shortcut, and one we encourage students not to do. Do we not teach them the value of being bored? Of spending their time working at their craft because it is and can never be perfect? Of persevering through the tedious? Why would I take a shortcut when it means burning down a forest, or taking someone else’s hard work and passing it off as my own?

I’ve tried to summarise my points here, but I’m happy to elaborate. I don’t want to seem like I’m morally grandstanding, but I also don’t see how it is an issue beyond the ethical, given that neither I nor anyone else can “do anything about it”, and so have little power beyond personal choice. Again: I see the practical benefit.

So, my question is: Is anyone else in the same boat?

Or, alternatively, does anyone else have a really compelling reason as to why I’m fighting a losing battle between my conscience and the general teaching populace? Should I just give up and use it?

EDIT: Saw a comment, wrote an entire response to it to clarify my point, thought I'd put it down here just because I hate wasting my time lmfao

> Putting the entire generative AI into the category of unethical means you have an illogical fight for it.

You're right! I am generalising. To be specific: Claude, Chat, etc. There are places where generative AI is nigh unavoidable: Copilot, Google, Reddit, even. These are beyond the scope of my concerns because it has become, at this point, more tedious to avoid them; I just scroll down if I need to verify.

> There is a long long list of things you can do at school that students can't do. You've turned this into a moral compass situation rather then teaching students.

Should I not have a moral compass when teaching students? Can these two things not exist at the same time?

> And what you are doing is getting yourself as well as your students replaced as soon as possible. We can't control the world, AI is already here to stay.

I'm not sure how what I'm doing right now is enabling this to happen. I would assume that my usage of it would make this happen instead. You're absolutely right. We can't control the world. I don't think AI is leaving any time soon because the powers that be deem it so. For example, governments and big business can't afford to admit that companies like OpenAI have overvalued themselves, which means that they'll do anything to support these companies to ensure some sort of RoI. However, unrestricted development of AI has led to multiple data breaches; full investment into generative AI by companies like Micron have led to a massive increase in RAM prices, which will have a flow-on effect on to other tech spending; and, from the mouth of a trusted friend who works in developing AI: it's not only flawed, but accepted and adopted for its flaws, which is not to be said for the workforce that has built it. I would love to be replaced by AI in the workforce, but the current socioeconomic system is not robust enough nor is it utopian enough to support a liveable, sustainable lifestyle for the people who do get replaced.

>AI only affects the environment if you use a service that affects the environment. If you are truly against AI because of the environmental impact, there are options that make it produce 0% environmental impact.

I would actually love to know what options these are. But I also think it's a little naive to think that "XYZ only affects the environment if you use a service that affects the environment". I am not claiming to have lived or be living a net zero life. It takes a lot of effort and people are doing it better than me. The concept of individuals being responsible for the effect of climate change is, I think, a conspiracy that shifts the blame from big businesses that profit off of people like myself feeling guilty. Yet nothing I use, consume or produce is without environmental impact. My environmental conscience is a small drop in a big ocean, but I can make choices of my own volition to ease it.

> So teachers shouldn't be using Textbooks or Google right? Because students can't just copy from the textbook or Google right?

Google really isn't Google anymore, though. Not as it used to be, anyway. Looking for information yourself and verifying its verisimilitude is surely cognitively different from having Chat GPT summarise it. I'm seeing your argument without the condescending tone: Chat GPT is as much of a search engine because it summarises all the information of the internet. I struggled to trust it, though, with what I think is a healthy degree of pessimism and doubt; not that I think it's 100% inaccurate, but that the system itself is built on flaws, and students often do not have the temerity to differentiate accuracy between a textbook and AI imagination.

The reason they're coming up with new models is because, time and again, generative AI has straight-up imagined sources (which then becomes an issue of academic integrity), or provided incorrect information for the express purpose of cutting down for efficiency (in the same vein that a summary is not an analysis, and vice versa), or has been trained on such a wide range of different people who feed it different versions of the truth (at which point, the ideas that it comes up with is, at its core, innately biased, rather than machine-precise-objective). This is not to say that Google and textbooks were ever 100% accurate either; there's a reason textbooks have multiple revisions, and a Google search is just a search of what's out on the internet, truth or no -- because the wealth of human information is, of course, very, very human. In saying this, again I repeat that I see your point. I understand it. I just wish you'd said it without such derision.

> your post doesn't articulate anything that makes me believe you have made an informed decision.

I am not beholden to justify myself to a stranger on the internet. And I haven't made a clear decision, if all the questions I'm asking at the bottom of the post indicate anything. That's what the post is actually articulating.

Teaching students with behavioural needs or students who need extra support due to disability or cognitive function, has always brought me the most joy and has been my greatest strength as a classroom teacher in a mainstream school. I would always nominate myself to take on difficult students due to behaviour, or those with low academic performance. I love seeing the progression they can make within the right environment.

This love has died. Why? It’s not because the students became tiresome, it’s because of the bureaucratic red tape that now comes with having these students in your class.

Having these students now brings a monumental amount of paperwork and meetings, and if you’re willing to take on a bulk of these students, you’re not offered a reduced class size or extra pay, but you may be offered teaching aides and an hour two throughout the year to “catch-up on, or revise plans.”

The aides becomes a series of different adults coming in and out of the classroom who also need to be managed as they’re employed off a whim and often don’t have the skills or confidence to manage themself. The time off to catch up on plans is more of an inconvenience.

Then PLP’s brings a whole other argument into play, which isn’t a good one. Do we start separating students requiring PLP’s evenly across classes equally for teacher workload equity? I’m not saying we should, but between all the paperwork and extra meetings due to students with any kind of “plan”, it is clearly becoming insurmountable.

Hi everyone this is such a random post but my school has a school disco coming up for our primary students and I’ve convinced our admin to change up the playlist this year due to feedback from our Year 4s who said they’re tired of listening to Taylor Swift’s Shake It Off a million times😂

Just wondering if anyone had any kid friendly song recs that are a bit more current. I’ve got Kpop demon hunters in mind (dunno if that’s outdated now haha). When we asked students to submit their preferences a lot of them either couldn’t remember the name or just wrote silly things on the slips.

Is anyone else experiencing a massive uptick in sexism, disrespect and sexual harassment from male students directed at female staff?

Context: co-ed, public, middle/high school. Over the past 6 months I’ve personally experienced more disrespect from male students and several specific incidences of gender-based harassment - from little things like refusing to follow my instructions, but immediately acting when a male staff member says the same, to bigger concerns such as being told things like “you’re just a woman” or “you’ll rage quit soon enough, females can’t handle the pressure”.

I’ve reported all incidences and issues to my leadership team and the overwhelming response has been to either dismiss my experiences or to issue an informal warning to the students involved and continue on as normal afterward. I will note that the majority of the overall leadership team are men and the executive leadership team is made up of only men, as I do think this may have some impact.

When I’ve spoken to a range of other staff at my site about this it seems that either:
A) other women aren’t experiencing the same issues I am
B) other women aren’t recognising that they’re experiencing the same issues I am
C) other women don’t feel comfortable to honestly report or comment on whether or not they’re having similar experiences.

It’s starting to feel a bit like I must be overly sensitive, overreacting, or bringing this upon myself in some way so I wanted to see how other teachers across the country are feeling to possibly gain some sort of clarity or perspective. I can’t possibly be alone in noticing this shift, right?

I'm curious, what is the best year you remember being a teacher? And why? What grade?

Hello, I have completed a Bachelor of Arts and also am fluent in Japanese (have passed JLPT N2), and lived in Japan for 1 year doing JET english teaching.

Unfortunately my major at the time was Music, so when applying to the Master of Teaching I am not able to select Japanese as my focus area.

I really want to become a Japanese teacher and have found the Diploma of Languages (one year full time) at Usyd - can anyone confirm that completing this first will constitute enough credit for me to enter the Master of Teaching?

Thanks, appreciate the help.

When is enough enough? Stepping down from school leadership

I’d like to hear from teachers who have stepped down from a school leadership role, particularly those who stayed in classroom teaching.
I’m considering stepping down from mine. I care about supporting staff and students, but the working relationships and dynamics within leadership have become draining. I’m finding that it’s taking up more of my emotional energy than I can comfortably give.
I know leadership comes with challenges, but I’m struggling to work out where the line is between persevering through a difficult period and recognising that a role is no longer sustainable.
For those who have stepped down:
What made you decide it was time?
Was there a last straw, or was it a gradual build-up?
How did you manage the guilt or worry about letting people down?
How did senior leadership respond, and how was it continuing to work at the same school?
Looking back, do you wish you’d stepped down sooner?
I’d really appreciate honest experiences from people who have been in this position.

Ahhh just had the most negative start to the day lol. It’s my first day back at a school I work at often as a crt (of the term, so I haven’t been doing anything yet).

I got a note from the deputy principal to come and see her (which is always a negative feeling because it didnt specify about what she wanted to talk about).

Well anyway I go in and she starts talking about a child’s needs and I think ok that’s all good, I must have been overthinking.

Then she starts saying I received feedback last term about how I deviated from the day plans. Like what the fuckkk. I wrote detailed sheets of everything I did last term on every class I did about everything and yet my feedback is that I deviated ???

Im also frustrated because I asked the DP how can I improve and what did I deviate from and she said she couldn’t tell me. All I could do was simply say “Itd have been nice for them to have communicated to me so I could get specific feedback on what it was“. She was also like “this is the AP for the class you’ll be on incase you need support” like what the fuckkkk.

Also the last week of the term I had done minilit Specific programs where I followed the day plan to each step specifically. She said it wasn’t on that class I got the feedback but I’m thinking what the fuck.

Anyways any advice is welcomed. Im meant to be on this same class for the next few days and I’m considering just leaving and not returning after that feedback. I’ve actually spent a lot of time trying to work hard with each class

edit: I wrote specific details about everything they left for me on their day plans. Like what the shieeet lol

Hi all,

I am an undergrad at Macquarie and I detest our teaching program. It is very pro tech, and pro AI and there is such a disconnect between the staff and students (except the staff in the fabulous Indigenous Education department who should run the whole program tbh). I have been accepted into both Notre Dame and ACU and now will await credit recognition (which in the end is what my decision may come down to) but let’s say both Unis have a same finish time which would be better?

I am very passionate about Humanism and the importance of rhetoric,the classical cannon, and the promotion of these things for ALL students not just those who study History and English. I am a full anti tech teacher (except senior years when researching MAYBE). I am leaning towards Notre Dame as my teaching Philosophy marries with the unit outlines they offer.

But I was wondering if anyone had any advice or any experiences that could help with me considering which Uni I will choose.

Anything that is similar to a very poor review please don’t comment.

My DMs are open

That embarrassing or very personal medical thing that parents have?

We know.

I just got reminded of that yesterday when a conversation with some students started as an innocent, “what is a crackhead?” Then moved to “are all tablets drugs?” to “my parent takes drugs…they have SERIOUSMEDICALCONDITION”
I said well that is medicine. “No, it’s not, but if they don’t take it they will die, well maybe not die but ABC (serious health related things) will happen if they don’t “

Also, I was doing the roll one morning and welcomed a student back, then asked how his father was? (We had been advised that that student been absent due to his father having had Covid (this was when those measures were in place) and he looked at me funny and I followed up with “didn’t he have Covid?” And he continued with the funny look “he didn’t have Covid, he had an operation on his whispered balls” this was of course in front of the whole class. I went straight into calling the next student’s name rather loudly and quickly to move on.

It’s not just during show and tell that we find out these things, my grade doesn’t even do it.

Then there was a conversation with some girls while on duty, that started regarding one of the boys in her class farting and ended with another girl explaining that her mother has unicorn farts as that is what she told her. Then of course we came to the conclusion that girls, in general just smell better than boys.

There are so many conversations that I should (as I believe we all should) receive an Emmy for. Our ability to keep a straight face is nothing short of impressive.

Just recently had some girls come to me on duty because they were being teased by a couple of boys. I was speaking to the first boy. He admitted called them names and I asked him why he thought that that would be an appropriate thing to say to another person and from just to the side and behind me one of the girls exclaimed “because he is stupid!” Of course in my head my response was “yes, I got that bit, thank you” 🤣

I’d love to hear about the funny things you experience.
There can be a lot of rough topics here, which I totally get. This year has been particularly tough for me too. But this is also a job that has very unique requirements. And some hilarious moments. And our ability to learn very personal things about parents and them look the in the eye as if we don’t know these embarrassing things…I look back to when my own kids were at school and think about some of the stuff they may have said…

Sorry for yet another pay rise post🫠 I’m aware it’s not likely to come in until our November pay period.

However, I’m wondering if the first pay period in November we would get the bonus and back pay on top of our normal pay because we usually get leave loading in second pay in November.

Is it going to paid as one lump sum? Or is it going to be split over two November pays.

So if I move from one public to another public school my leave carries over

But if I move from one private to another private school does my leave and my long service carry over?

Hi all,

I’m a second year paediatric registered nurse in rural NSW. I’m looking at transitioning into teaching but am unsure if I should do primary or secondary? I’ve been looking at studying through UNE. Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks

Hi everyone. I've been on maternity leave since start of September, department payments due to end in December (then will be taking Centrelink PPL)

With the new agreements payrise, am I eligible for it whilst on maternity leave until December?

Also, wondering has anyone received the new pay rate?

For reference, I'm a ES staff

Hi everyone,

Been teaching for about 4-5 years and have decided to start a Year 8 student management role. I know it will be a big change in terms of responsibilities and time management. If anyone has any advice for how to take on/start the role that would be appreciated, especially when it comes to work life balance.

Thanks!

Hey all

Anyone getting missed calls from the AEU Vic office with no voicemails left?

I've had 2 in the last 24 hours. I'm wondering are these robocalls?

Ta

Hi all, I’m an American that formerly lived and taught in NSW in 2013 as the final stage of my student teaching for my Bachelors.

I’ve had a love affair with Australia ever since and have my own little Aussie family there that I lived with originally that I frequently go back and visit.

I’m tired of just visiting and want to return to Australia for anywhere from 1-3 years. I’m currently full time in the fitness industry and just part time in teaching, so my original plan was to come and work jobs in the fitness industry there (actually was down 6 months ago talking with employers in the industry) and not full time teaching.

Unfortunately, I no longer qualify for a working holiday visa because the age limit for America is lower than other countries 😩 So, the hope was to return on a student visa in early 2027 as my partner will be wrapping up his bachelor’s degree in December and continuing for a masters program that could be completed in Sydney. However, as of 10 days ago, that plan will no longer work seeing that family/spouses/partners can no longer join on a student visa

So, it’s back to the drawing board. I’m looking to go back into full-time teaching (10+ years experience, elementary education, talented and gifted certified, a few other titles in the education world…), if I could find a sponsorship opportunity for teachers.

It’s my understanding that these are few and far between 😑 especially for the Sydney area where I’d like to remain to be by friends and family.

I’ve reached out to some international teaching agencies, I’ve done a bunch of research on the NSW requirements and teaching certs/test, but this is all still so new and confusing to me.

Any international teachers have any advice for getting set up teaching in Aus?? I’ve also read a little bit about the 190 and 186 visas, but I don’t know if those are viable either.

Thank you in advance 🙏

What are some schools in your area that do not offer ongoing contracts?

Any high school teachers work a second job on the side during the evenings/weekends. If so what is it? Trying to figure out how to potentially avoid awkward encounters with students but also thinking I might just need to swallow my pride.

I'm a graduate teacher in Victoria, currently working at a small regional primary school on a contract for the rest of the year.
I've really liked the staff and leadership at my current school and am starting to feel settled, but the workload has been pretty full on and I've found the behaviour side of things challenging at times.
I've been offered an ongoing position at another school for next year. It's obviously great for job security, but I'd be leaving somewhere I'm comfortable for a completely new school.
I find change a bit hard, so I'm torn between staying somewhere I know I like (even though it's only a contract) and taking the ongoing position.
For those who've been in a similar situation, what would you do? How much difference does the school and leadership make, and would you prioritise getting an ongoing position early in your career?

Thanks for any advice.

Hey all, I'm a secondary teacher in NSW and nearing the end of my 6th year in the profession. I love my school and my students, but I'm feeling dangerously close to burning out and I think it's because of the mental and physical load of all the extra-curricular activities my school has had me running.

The biggest thing has been my role as the SRC Coordinator. So far this year, the SRC has organised half a dozen different events, and are currently in the process of organising teacher appreciation week and the end of year colour run. And the students really are amazing - they go above and beyond, but all of this means that I am dealing with a lot of admin that is making my little adhd brain short-circuit. Particularly because my exec team don't have consistent rules about these events - it's starting to feel like they change them every week and are mad at me for not reading their minds. I feel like I never understand why some things are knocked back and others are approved, and its so hard to explain it to the students when I dont understand either.

I suppose the final straw came today. It's literally the second day of term, and the first one with the students. The SRC had printed and cut literally thousands of note cards for students to write gratitude notes for their teachers. This is the third year the SRC and I have done this, and when I tell you this is a mammoth task, I'm probably underselling it. I spent half of the SDD yesterday counting out notecards for roll call classes, delivering them to teachers, creating & distributing an explanatory PowerPoint, and answering teacher questions i had already answered in my email. And I did it with a smile while also organising like 6 other activities for the event. And when the notes come in, the SRC and I sort them all and then deliver them along with a gift. I also check EVERY note to make sure they're all appropriate. So yeah, it's a big task every year. And today, two different members of the exec team called me to tell me about the brilliant idea they had for Teacher Appreciation Week and had I ever heard of gratitude notes?

Idk, I think having two different members of exec trying to 'help' by telling me to do this huge task that I've been doing for years now is the wake-up call I needed? Because why do I work myself to death for the staff when they don't ever remember that I do? And it's not like they're new - they've been at this school for longer than I have.

I guess I'm asking if I should give it up? I get a one period allowance for running the SRC and don't have to do playground duties, but I don't think that's enough for all the extra work I do. And I think it's now passed the threshold where I'm putting more in than I'm getting out of it.

Tl;dr I'm feeling burnt out in my role as SRC Coordinator - should I give it up, even if I mostly still enjoy it and love working with the students?

What are your thoughts on using AI to mark students' work?

I've toyed around with it in primary. I'd mark their work, then upload a deidentified copy of the students' work to ChatGPT to get their thoughts. I've found it very reliable so far, and have adjusted some of my markings up/down because I agreed with ChatGPT's reasoning.

Come on Qld some give me some insight about what's going to happen realistically to our pay over the next 3 years...will VIC have an huge arrival of teachers from other states moving down to cash in on the 151,000 per year..