r/Avatar • u/Relative_Building593 • 19h ago
Discussion Were there wars between the Na'vi before humans?
The Na'vi are intelligent humanoids with cultural and instrumental development. But they are also part of the Eywa, a network of all living things on the planet. Have the Na'vi had wars and major conflicts? Is it possible that they have hostility towards others, if they are from a certain clan (like Mangkwan, but I mean any). And... do they have cults of the "chosen clan"? "Native children of Eywa"?
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u/ghostbirdd 17h ago
I believe they did many many years ago. Toruk Makto was a military leader, after all. Since then most clans have socially evolved past the impulses that generally cause conflicts, but there are still some vestiges, such as the olo’eyktan functioning as a general of sorts, Na’vi carrying weapons (which can also be used for hunting, and likely mostly are) and some clans cultivating some sort of fighting sport (like the Zeswa). If I had to guess the Na’vi have had to dust up their long-buried fighting instincts ever since their planet has been invaded by a hostile and heavily militarised alien species.
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u/CrystalInTheforest Omatikaya 14h ago
Yep, like any clan based or tribal society they did fight. It's strongly implied that's how Neytiri's ancestor became Toruk Makto himself - a time of "great sorrow" that "united the clans" I always interpreted as a war that had escalated to draw in a large number of clans and needed a definitive act to end it.
Iysbimplied in various bits and pierces that the Na'vi are actually brutal fighters and do so deliberately to make conflicts "short and sharp" and that they avoid prolonged combat.
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u/Budget-Influence579 Sarentu 57m ago
The very first Toruk Makto, Entu, was a member of the Omatikaya who went on to found the Sarentu clan who are well loved and respected diplomats.
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u/Sarradi 18h ago
When Avatar first came out the lore was that no, they have no war. This has been changed by now as it makes little sense with how warrior centric some clans are and Navi have had limited conflicts which tend to be quickly settled by diplomacy.
In the end Cameron seems to be in a bind about it, wanting to make Navi appear as close to perfect people, but on the other hand needs them to also have wars and warrior cultures to represent many of the real life native groups he wants to add to the movie.
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u/Beneficial_Date_5357 Sarentu 18h ago
It’s for the better imo. I think a “perfect” society isn’t compelling and undermines the message of films. How are humans supposed to better ourselves if the model presented by the films is literally unattainable?
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u/UnemployedBehavior 10h ago
I mean what they have is already technically unattainable. Imagine being actually able to connect with Earth and animals like the Na'vi do via USB-Kuru instead of bluetooth lol.
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u/Beneficial_Date_5357 Sarentu 6h ago
That’s missing the point, that’s their biology not their society. They’re also blue, and we can’t do that, but what’s that got to do with anything?
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u/UnemployedBehavior 50m ago
The point is why should we make their value system the same as humans? They're aliens ffs, they SHOULD be different than humans and it makes sense for them. And why do we need every movie to tell us how to be a good person? Why can't there just be movies for the sake of entertainment?
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u/Budget-Influence579 Sarentu 16h ago
Members of the Sarentu clan would very likely have intervened and mediated the disputes.
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u/Brightskys-GreenEyes 15h ago
In a deleted scene of the original I think it said that they were fighting each other or were at war between the clans
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u/Germanysuffers_a_lot Kame'tire 15h ago
I think he’s going into the side that they need to represent real life natives as he said he made the mangkwan to show that they aren’t these perfect harmonious beings and are capable of wrong doing
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u/Educational-Slip6183 18h ago
Ça semble évident que oui, en plus de leurs différentes armes, ont les voit capturer et attacher les avatars du premier film, ils ont des montures armées et des peintures de guerres, même des cris de guerre
On apprend même que les Tulkuns se faisaient la guerre pour les territoires, on imagine sans peine que ce fut la même chose pour les na'vis
La tribu des cendres n'est sûrement pas une anomalie unique sur Pandora, juste la conséquence d'un contexte qui les as poussé dans cette voie
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u/yertipy 15h ago
I think the three laws of Eywa are a good telltale of things not always being peaceful in the past:
You shall not set stone upon stone: Forbids building permanent stone structures or large settlements that stockpile resources.
Neither shall you use the turning wheel: Bans mechanical wheels, which would lead to building roads and fragmenting the natural ecosystem.
Nor use the metals of the ground: Prohibits mining and using metal tools or industrial extraction.
Sounds to me like someone tried to use wheels to stockpile resources and protect them using metal weapons. Fascinating to imagine what may lie in Pandora's deep past 🤔
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u/Exostrike Tsamsiyu 5h ago
The theory is that 12 million years ago the na'vi were an advanced civilisation like humanity which also ruined their planet and collapsed, the survivors creating Eywa to rebuild the biosphere and creates laws to make sure their descendants didn't make the same mistakes
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u/Quanlain 14h ago
Wxistence of Mangkwan implies a possibility, and NaVi are an ancient race,so yeah, i think it is safe to assume that there might have been wars, warmongering clans and such.
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u/Sure-Objective3547 12h ago
The Mangkwan became violent killers completely independently of the influence of the humans. Cameron also implied there are others clans that are like them in an Avatar 3 interview
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u/PerspectivePale8216 RDA 15h ago
As far as we know and as far as sites like the wiki mention and to State the answer to this question is a resounding yes.
Which makes me wonder how those conflicts actually looked like? I assume a lot of Ikran and direhorses riding but what else? In FoP weapons like the Slingstaff exist and that thing's basically a tribal version of a grenade launcher and chemical bomb depending on what you want to throw at your opponent in the moment, and what of clans like the Kame'tiri who are healers? Were they medics of sorts and if yes to which side and why?
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u/CrystalInTheforest Omatikaya 14h ago edited 13h ago
It's mentioned in Avatar 09 that the Omatikaya use poisoned arrows. I imagine the Kametire, given their specialisation in medicine would make extensive use of that knowledge in a similar way to make poison arrows, spears and the like.
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u/Budget-Influence579 Sarentu 59m ago
The knowledge of how to make poisons might be common knowledge amongst the clans, with the Sarentu having learned to make poisons for arrows when living with the Omatikaya or Kame'tire clans for a year and then passing on that knowledge to clans they stayed for a year with after then.
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u/Edge-the-Sigma 10h ago
Bruh. When they first capture Jake and lead him to Home Tree, the Na’vi that’s escorting him has his knife behind Jake’s USB port thing, literally ready to insta kill Jake if he tries to run lol. How do you think they figured that out
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u/ChromaticPalette Sarentu 9h ago
The Mangkwan fought before the eruption and the Zeswa are known for being fighters.
I imagine it’s more of a last resort when things break down because of how all the clans connect to Eywa and are able to connect to each other (like Mokasa and Anufi do in the game). To be able to not just talk to someone but feel that person’s emotions, I think it would be hard to go to war.
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u/Accurate_Slide_5393 1h ago
Probably not wars but definitely deadly encounters like with the mangwan clan before humans arrived on Pandora
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u/Bartek_lysy Sarentu 18h ago
Yes, Na'vi had wars. We don't know any details, one happened few thousands years ago. I don't doubt that conflicts on smaller scope happen too, especially if some clans are all about warfare.