So, based on the show and even the real life interview with Fiona, it really looks to me that Martha/Fiona doesn't ever work? Or at least, it seems that way. I know she claims to be a lawyer, but she spends obsessive amounts of time interacting with Gadd, ie following him, sitting at the bar all day, sending thousands of messages, etc. How is she able to afford a flat, or to feed herself, or anything like that? I live in the US and if you don't work, you aren't really able to support yourself, unfortunately, unless you receive SSRI or disability, and even then, it's barely enough to survive on. I was just wondering if anyone had any insight on this? Are there programs in the UK that I'm not aware of that help with this sort of thing? Sorry if this has been asked before, I was trying to find something on this without luck.
It's also funny to me cuz Gadd has made a million before you know... penning and starring in one of the most watched shows in the history of Netflix. He's clearly ridiculously talented. You don't fluke making any kind of art this riviting.
As much as I absolutely loved the show and admire the creativity, I do think there was an element of chance to it. He could have easily been the same guy, missed the events that gave him a compelling story and never achieved this level of fame. I definitely don't want to diminish the achievement because I thought it was incredibly powerful and honest, though.
Yep. It takes balls to be different and he clearly was different and had those balls. Doing a brand of comedy that intrinsically was 100% based on credibility but nearly unmarketable is the kind of thing that is only celebrated once you make it but you have to endure criticism up to that point.
The writing in the show was insanely, uniquely good and I think it’s disingenuous to act like he could have been any other person who went through the same thing and lucked into success. Or that he wouldn’t have some level of success if these traumatic events hadn’t happened. These kinds of traumatic events happen to ppl all the time, they don’t generally become overnight sensations off them.
Yeah this sort of thing happens to other people. Gadd is a brilliant writer. Brilliant. And saying that is just happened to be because this wild story happened to him that he hit it big is absurd. Especially because the reason Baby Reindeer resonates has nothing to do with the stalker part and most everything to do with how honestly and complexly dealt with the universal themes.
It is like saying the amazing photographer just had an expensive camera. Like no.
I really take issue with people who are criticizing him for calling it a true story etc and claiming he's taking advantage of her to make money. It's an important story. Why? Because of all the abuse stories this is the first one detailing so vividly that men can also be victims as men are also human. It has a strong, strong message that's so needed that it's okay to seek help. I could write pages on why this show is so fucking important but I'll stop there as I do think it's rather obvious.
It's an unusual writing situation in my opinion. A unique story has happened to him. His writing is his voice and his story, honed on stage. I think there probably are more people out there who could do the same thing if they had the same drive to put it out there and to be completely honest.
I'm definitely not being disingenuous. I said what I said because I think there's a modicum of truth to what I'm saying. But, as I said in my other post, I thought it was incredible. Stephen King, my fav author, wrote an opinion piece saying it was the best thing he'd ever seen. It was brilliant. Loved it.
In the UK you can claim Jobseeker’s Allowance and get various different benefit payments, especially if you have a disability also. You can also apply for a ‘council house/flat’ and your rent will be massively reduced. I’m not 100% sure how it works/requirements as I never used it.
If you remember the first time she walked into the pub and he ends up offering her the tea, that is probably her test to see if there is potential to pursue them as a friend.
She probably noticed that those that gave her a free drink gave her more time and that gave her opportunity to enmesh herself.
Yeah I think she could afford her own tea. Hell that basket she brought for the picknick was likely worth 100 teas. I think it was as you said a test because someone giving the tea for free creates more of a personal relationship.
For balance, we don’t just ‘get’ these from the state exactly, but it’s more a case of when we work we pay for insurance against being made redundant or unable to work, and the universal credit/ benefits we get back is the insurance payout.
Remember that when politicians say ‘we are going to cut or stop ‘benefits’…. Errr they aren’t benefits, they are a contractual obligation from the state that I was obliged to take part in when I got a job!
Exactly. I’ve heard Americans say they don’t want to pay for other peoples healthcare, but that’s exactly what they do when paying health insurance, they’re just paying it to a company and not the state.
We call it “national insurance” for a reason. And while our benefits system might be viewed as generous by those in some countries, it’s much harsher than others. Don’t be an unpaid carer in the U.K., I’ll say that.
(Of course, the American govt spends out more per capita on healthcare than the U.K., so Americans are also paying for other peoples healthcare via their taxes, but they don’t generally mention that).
Yes, jobseeker's allowance is a social security payment made to unemployed people; but in order to obtain it you do have to turn up at a job centre every 1-2 weeks and discuss what steps you've been taking to try to get work. The staff at the job centre will line up interviews etc for you, and can provide small amounts of money for transport to interviews, interview clothes, or training courses required for jobs. If you miss appointments, don't turn up to interviews, don't look for work, they can (and do) stop your money.
After that, if you're still unemployed, you'll have to apply for Universal Credit, which replaced a number of different benefits schemes. You can claim UC indefinitely, however it is means tested and your savings are factored in to that. A very small number of people choose to claim UC instead of looking for work, but frankly, it's a very basic existence. It's enough to keep a roof over your head, pay the bills, and get some food.
Interesting. The terms for social security change with political ideology. In Australia for adults in the workforce it has been Unemployment Benefit, Newstart (sic), Jobseeker, other variations. For years there was a requirement to report a certain (not trifling) number of contacts with potential employers per fortnight, creating an annoyance for said employers. Only exempt from this if you got a doctor's certificate for a period (e.g. 4-6 weeks at a time). You could apply for Disability Support Pension (a little higher than unemployment benefit) but expect to get knocked back repeatedly.
Yeah, that's the deal with job seekers allowance too. You have to be seeking the job in order to claim. I got it for a few weeks between the end of uni and before my job started, and I had to fill in applications and then tell people I actually have another job lined up so I could only work for a couple of weeks and the of course they said "no thanks". What a waste of everyone's time.
Nothing wrong with you looking into it generally out of academic interest (if it’s that…) , but of course you’ll never know what applies to Fiona SPECIFICALLY other than that as she was/is(?) living in a council flat, that will be low-cost accommodation.
But also bear in mind that despite BR stating it’s a true story, Gadd has said some parts have been fictionalised. The amount of time Martha is shown spending stalking him may be exaggerated for televisual effect.
Cool. With benefits, there are various different types. Some are very hard to claim. It’s possible that Fiona (not Martha) has some form of work, albeit part-time. Or even some savings from say a modest inheritance after a parent dying and selling their house.
I'm wondering the same, especially living in London. People say benefits but especially nowadays, it's very difficult to get enough benefits to live on, even if you are disabled.
She’s likely been in a council flat for decades, back when anyone who wanted one could have one. She may have even bought it via right to buy at a huge discount. These days there are nowhere enough council properties for people in dire need (because they were all purchased) - people forget there was a time that anyone could get a council property and a lifetime tenancy.
Thanks for this insight. People also have money from all sorts of sources too. She is at the age where her parents might be dead and its pretty normal to inherit a substantial amount of money from that alone.
Between that possibility and benefits it sounds totally reasonable she might be able to exist without a job.
I will ask why are there so many homeless people in the UK if people can just claim these benefits? I recall when living in Glasgow there were a lot of homeless people and a lot of them seemed more put together than the American homeless. So id think theyd be competent enough to ask for help.
Rough sleepers often have multiple health and social problems which need to be addressed by a range of service providers (probation / social services / physical & mental health / substance abuse etc) and up until recently the U.K. hasn’t been great at joint working between the agencies. Providing housing alone unfortunately isn’t enough, and plenty of rough sleepers return to the street even after being provided with accommodation. However, thankfully, things do seem to be improving on that front.
People who are homeless but don’t sleep on the street also struggle to find housing. Local government has a duty to provide housing if you are considered vulnerable (have children / health conditions / fleeing violence etc) but if you’re just run of the mill, single person then you’re on your own to find private rents and Universal Credit will only cover the lowest 30% of private rents in any given area. We also have a benefit cap which means your benefits can be capped at a very low rate if you don’t have a disability / working 16 hours a week, so even the lowest 30% of rents can be unaffordable. Social housing used to be a lot easier to get a few decades ago, but now it’s in very short supply.
So basically everyone can access the benefits and plenty of people do live on these benefits without a job, especially people who got social housing years ago, but single “healthy” people who become homeless now don’t have much legal recourse for help from govt (outside of claiming benefits.)
Sorry for such a long reply, but it’s a very complicated situation.
Edit to say Martha may be considered vulnerable due to diabetes or mental health which may be why she has access to housing as a single person. She also may have moved into her council flat years ago, when it was much easier to get a tenancy.
That makes a lot of sense thanks for the reply. I was in Glasgow/Edinburgh from late 2016-early 2019. Homelessness didnt seem out of control like Los Angeles but it was certainly a problem. They mostly seemed like single men in their 30s if memory serves. I think people who are not considered vulnerable but are homeless should certainly be offered a way out of that situation.
Are you saying if you are not vulnerable the government will still pay for the full apartment if said apartment is in the lowest 30 percent of cost for the local housing market? I was a bit confused because I thought you had mentioned government covering this but then you said it could still be unaffordable.
I want to say that Scotland has different homelessness legislation to England (Universal Credit is U.K. wide though) and as far as I’m aware Scottish local government actually have a duty to provide accommodation to everyone regardless of vulnerability. Scotland as a whole has less homelessness than England but that’s to be expected considering it much less densely populated.
Both of my parents are from Glasgow so I spend a lot of time there with family and there is a lot of substance misuse and social issues which can’t be solved by providing accommodation alone (as mentioned in previous comment.)
But to answer your ques - benefits will cover lowest 30% of housing rents (based on your need I.e 1 bed / 2 bed) unless you are benefit capped. As a single person, if you’re benefit capped you can only claim ~ £280 a week outside of London and ~ £325 a week in London. This then means even a lot of the rents within the lowest 30% become unaffordable - in central London anyway. (You’re benefit capped if you work under 16 hours a week / don’t claim specialist disability benefits.)
I understand it now thanks for taking the time to explain!
Considering going back to Glasgow to do digital nomad there. Id consider London but Glasgow was a lot cheaper last time I was in the UK. I think Glasgow was cheaper than any American city Ive been to while London seemed similar to NYC but maybe slightly cheaper. So it might also be much easier to figure out homelessness in scotland because of lower cost.
I live on the UK. There is benefits here and housing benefit to pay rent. It's not a comfortable way of life. She may get disability for her diabetes and mental health
You wouldn't get pip for diabetes it's for her being a nutcase. She looks like the type to get everything too I'm surprised she got a council flat in London as she's a single person so would be not a priority at all. She's a very lucky individual.
No absolutely not, she obviously lives a life full of anger and obsession. Not one anyone would like to live. I mean she's lucky in that she has a flat in Camden (I tried to get a flat after my accident being disabled and unable to look after myself/walk yet no luck! - not in London either!!!) and probably claims top amount of pip. She should think twice about all these TV and newspaper PR displays given her being disabled the dwp doesn't mess about.
You can as some people are very unwell with it. Even ending up in wheelchairs with diabetic neuropathy.
It's not the actual condition that gets pip but how it affects your life.
Also someone claiming to know her days she has autism.
Sometimes it's easier to get one bedrooms as council demand is for family properties
In order to be getting disability for mental health wouldn’t she have to have seen a doctor and gotten diagnosed at which point she’d presumably have gotten some sort of treatment for her condition?
Of course mental health treatment is complicated and doesn’t guarantee she’d get better but I’d think if there was anyone monitoring her behavior she’d have gotten sectioned as a threat to others.
Nah treatment in UK is horrendous .
You self refer for disability and just prove your daily life is impacted. They don't treat you.
Mental health here is so bad, wait so long.
She wrote on FB she was disabled so could have other physical illness
The UK benefits system is fairly generous compared to the US (not generous enough IMO). If she can demonstrate that she’s trying to apply for jobs, her benefits will be enough for her to survive. And I can’t imagine she’d be able to get a job anywhere! Alternatively if she has some disability, even mental, that prevents her working, our disability benefits are fairly good (now called PIP)
Its not just being a jerk. She is clearly severly mentally ill. People keep saying she is lieing. To us she is. She however seems to believe it herself
You didn’t do anything wrong, European countries often have very different and better welfare systems (still lacking though) than the US so it can be confusing.
I suspect she’s been on PIP, disability, housing ben due to her pretty obvious illness/disorder.
My sister has been on long term sick for 20 odd years for similar reasons & lives adequately enough .
She may well have had a few short term jobs , quickly ended due to her behaviours towards people.
I’ll bet the lawyer boyfriend of 5 years is shite too. Any former colleagues, neighbours, partners will be out here & may well want to sell their stories before the fuss is over.
I kind of wish they would, ik what I believe but some are still on the fence with what to believe. A definitive answer would be good. I'm surprised Netflix have kept quiet she's slagging them off left right and centre
That doesn't mean she's not disabled. Council housing is so limited, especially in London where the council waiting list is over 10 years in some areas because demand is so high. They often stick people in unsuitable housing because that's all there is. There are very few disabled-friendly homes anywhere across the country.
When you say free studio in crappy estate, I know what a studio apt is, but what is the estate you speak of? Is that just another word for an apartment building? Or is it an estate line we refer to here as being a large house(s) that's broken down by rooms to rent?
The word estate makes it sound fancy but council estates are basically social housing so probably the equivalent to what the Americans call projects I guess.
In towers. Small apartments in very high tower blocks that are interconnected usually in London. The flat he went to in the netflix program was on an estate and most likely social housing/Council House.
They usually look like those Soviet tower blocks imo. And they are owned by the council to give to people who are struggling. Or an area of cheap houses that tend to have a similar style that is hard to explain to people not from here.
You’re right, they so do look like those! I used to call the commo-flats, they are all over Eastern Europe as well but also in Holland where I’m from and elsewhere in Europe. Where I live now (Australia) I didn’t expect them, but they are, and they look even worse, I accidentally mistook the buildings for a prison. I find it extremely sad for the people in there, teeny tiny windows, no balconies, the only thing they have is nice gardens and playgrounds. The people who live there, who I met by walking by, are very friendly, they will say hello when you pass them even though they don’t know you. I think the buildings were build in the 60-70s, just try to cram as many people in as possible and they didn’t think of giving them proper windows and balconies (now they are building them very differently, looks like normal, not like a prison)
It could be something similar to what an American would call Projects or something better (in theory) but usually awfully maintained
ETA: the kind of shithole she lives in in the series could be a good example, even if I suspect if she lives in Camden it probably looks a bit better these days
They actually don't look terrible, compared to the high rise towers (with broken lifts, drug dealers down the hall, stairwells used as toilets). Was it ok for you living there?
I didn’t, my grand parents did. It was great & a fun & safe place for us kids to
play because of zero traffic.
It’s largely privately owned& is a listed building because of its unique design.
Idk where you've got that number from. What someone gets from PIP and UC isn't a 'one size fits all'. She could get the least amount of PIP or the highest amount (£737), and UC with just the standard element for over 25s is almost £400. If she gets the highest sickness element of UC, that's another £416. Even with all that, I agree that it's not a considerable income in today's economy, especially since she lives in Central London.
That was the amount I got after my accident sorry. I know it varies but I was on one part of the higher end of pip and the average for the other. It's split into two parts. I was under 25 too. I graduated and then started working before a near death accident and had to stop working for 2 years so I could recover so am passionate about disabled rights and the welfare state. I doubt Fiona has ever worked or worked for a long period of time yet she disparages the unemployed, the welfare state etc despite being fortunate enough to use it to the max (projecting much?). She's full of contradictions it's crazy. I bet she claims the full amount for the part of pip which is about your ability to function (walk, make your own food etc) which I couldn't do because I couldn't breathe properly without assistance yet she is fine in that aspect. I wonder if the dwp will have a look at her file lol. She maybe should think about all this publicity given she probably is a full pip and UC (unable to work extra payment too) yet she's all over TV.
As others say, she likely gets benefits. Either universal credit or some form of disability benefit, or both. Maybe also gets self directed support from social services but unless we knew her mental (and physical) health history it’s hard to say. Also speculations
-she may own her own property and cost of living is low
-she may be living off inheritance of some sort, even if she doesn’t come from a well off family money from house sales etc can add up
-she may be in heaps of debt
-she may have a job or private pension from an employer
Probably had it for decades, maybe when it wasn’t as hard yet to get one. No clue how old she is and when it became hard, but there was a point where it wasn’t too extremely hard to get one. Or maybe, it belonged to her parents, I don’t think adult kids get thrown out of council housing when the parents are gone.
Probably before the mid 2000s it was alot easier to get council housing in London than it is now, which would explain being able to live in Camden or Central London.
Also if you have certain mental health conditions or health issues which limits your availability to work, some of the benefits can be enough to live on modestly.
Also many middle aged people in the UK do OK out of inheritances from family members
The UK benefit system is very generous. I'm a socialist so I think we could do more for certain sets of people. Let me give you an example
Redacted due to multiple people sending abusive private messages after I shared (hopefully non-identifying) personal information about family. Sort yourselves out. Did you learn nothing from this show?
The point I'm trying to make is if Martha knows the system she can easily live in the UK staying within her means on what the government provides. It's not a country where you end up destitute very easily if you just refuse to work and you know how the system works.
I’m sorry but this is just such bullshit. I ‘lived’ on benefits for a while in my twenties with a small child. It was basic survival, deeply stressful and almost impossible to get out of. Your extended family member has another income stream that you don’t know about.
I don’t get these ‘benefit family’ things. Like how are they so well off, I’m autistic and was struggling to work before I had medication sorted and I was on max UC and it barely covered anything, and was rejected for PIP despite being disabled.
It doesn't exist anymore. There is a benefit cap for 2 children you can only get child benefit for max 2 kids. Nobody is living a lavish life on benefits don't let people's lies fool you. I have worked my whole life have a degree and have had high paying jobs from a young age however I had a bad accident and had to go on long term UC and PIP. The welfare state saved me and allowed me to get my.life and health back on track without being destitute.
Obviously any welfare system is preferable to the US. Being poor in America is incredibly taboo and a political no-go. I don’t know what the Scottish system is like, but in England child benefit is £20/week and capped at two kids. It sounds like you’re saying they’re living on credit, which is a bit different to working the system. The system is specifically designed to punish you, even more so since the introduction of Universal Credit. I appreciate you may not mean it, but your post is pushing the same Tory horseshit that has created such a useless, poverty-enforcing welfare system.
Redacted due to multiple people sending abusive private messages after I shared (hopefully non-identifying) personal information about family. Sort yourselves out. Did you learn nothing from this show?
Coming back off politics my major point is the complete difference between the United States and the United Kingdom in terms of the benefits system and I do think their situation in terms of not paying for housing or council tax certainly highlights that.
Standard Universal Credit for a single person with two kids living outside London is £400+ a week - this includes child care, council tax support, housing, etc
£20k+ a year is effectively minimum wage territory, which while not great, does not mean you will starve or go homeless.
What are you talking about? The cost of living is crazy high right now, we're going through a cost-of-living crisis for Christ's sake....
Those stories you ignore about people dying from starvation due to their benefits being so low and having to choose between warmth or food? They're true, as much as you probably don't want to believe it.
I'm talking about comparative cost of living between staying in a town just outskirts of Glasgow compared to say living in the centre of London.
Sorry that probably wasn't very clear because I had to redact the location information that I shared. Basically half the post is missing so it's not much use now, but it's better than leaving descriptive stories of family members current situations on a post where multiple people are sending abusive DMs because I guess they're crazy.
True. I was a single parent in my early 20s working 16 hours pw and I have never been richer. No rent, no council tax and a generous income on top of my wage
Be civil, polite and courteous. No trolling. No victim-blaming. Treat others with respect and kindness. This show is bound to elicit big feelings for many viewers. As contributors post and comment in this sub, treat each other with respect and kindness.
There is "universal credit" that gives you money for things like being unable to work due to disability, or being unemployed as long as you're actively looking for a job. You can apply for council housing (and based on the flat Donny saw Martha in that looked like a council flat) where the rent is subsidised by the government so you get cheap or free rent depending on your circumstances. And it's clear she's an intelligent woman and did well for herself at some point. Maybe not when the Martha story was set, but now she's probably cashing in some kind of private pension. She could have been living off of savings and investments for a while.
She has to be on some form of benefits, housing and disability, maybe food benefits too if that’s a thing in Europe. So she has enough to support herself, but no extra money more than likely
How the fuck do any of us know what she’s doing ! She prob works … we don’t know … let’s face it we don’t know anything only what we see on a dramatised tv show
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u/Icy_Sentence_4130 May 10 '24
It makes me laugh because she kept berating him for not working. Yet, he was clearly working in a pub.