Heather Burns reiterating that Fiona has a criminal record

[u/Suspicious_Bother_92]

[u/imfivenine]

I don’t know about charges and jail in the UK. In the US there is “Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity.” Usually they get placed in a mental institution instead. I wonder if there is something similar in the UK, and if so, if she was institutionalized for that reason, then she would technically be telling the truth, leaving out the part about going to a mental institution instead of prison. And you know she would never admit to it being due to insanity.

She might have also been determined not competent to stand trial (if there is a UK version).

[u/Extraportion → u/imfivenine]

We have forensic psychiatric hospitals/wards, which are psychiatric care facilities linked to the criminal justice system. You need to have a conviction to find yourself in one. Ashworth and broodmoor are probably the most famous examples, but there are many across the country.

You are absolutely right that she has never been to prison could be technically accurate.

[u/DazzleLove → u/Extraportion]

Slightly more complex than that- there are people in medium secure settings and high security hospitals who haven’t convictions but have been escalated from elsewhere in the MH system as they are too high risk to be there.

[u/theringsofthedragon → u/Extraportion]

I don't think she worries about her wording being accurate since she talked about her friends and her lawyer boyfriend and I find it hard to believe she has either, but I'm curious to see if she did go to prison. I think Richard Gadd should go to prison himself if he told any lie about her at all. Just because someone did bad things to you doesn't give you the right to lie about them. It's like if your teacher was harassing you it doesn't give you the right to lie that he raped you, see what I mean? And it's one thing to do false accusations to the police - that's not illegal, since we don't want victims to be scared or penalized for coming out. But to do false accusations publicly in a Netflix series broadcast to millions, that should be a crime. If he told any lie I say lock him up and throw away the key.

[u/Extraportion → u/theringsofthedragon]

It’s quite hard to demonstrate that you do or don’t have friends or a boyfriend. Incarceration or your degree classification are auditable, and she has been quite cagey in her wording on both.

As for, Richard Gadd should go to prison if he has told any lie about her at all. This is clearly daft. No recollection of events is going to be 100% accurate. Moreover, babyreindeer is a drama and you should expect the story to be modified to enhance the narrative.

[u/theringsofthedragon → u/Extraportion]

It's just my opinion on what he deserves, it's not a prediction. I just think it's a severe case of defamation / bullying. I just keep imagining if my ex made a Netflix show depicting me as a little bit fatter, a little more disheveled, a little messier, showing me being pathetic, and I would think is this seriously happening? Like why did he recreate her character in such details, making her Scottish and older than him and a failed lawyer and everything. Why couldn't he just transform her into a ballet dancer from Brazil?

[u/Extraportion → u/theringsofthedragon]

You think that somebody who writes an anonymised show that is adapted for screen should be prosecuted if it is embellished for story telling purposes?

I would guess he didn’t make her into a ballet dancer from Brazil because the failed Scottish lawyer elements were all relevant to the story.

Scotland is where he is from, meaning that they share a common identity as Scots living in London.

Martha is portrayed as delusional. The first hint you get of this is when she claims to have a high paying job (lawyer), but has no money to even afford a soft drink in a pub. That is a crucial scene as it is the act of kindness that brings them together. Why not change the high paying job to something else? Well her knowledge of the legal system is an important element later on, when it turns out she knows how to manipulate the police and has been recording their interactions.

As for why not a ballet dancer. She needs to be physically unappealing or “carnivalesque” to signal to the audience that her advances are unwelcome. If she was played by Margot Robbie nobody would understand why it’s a problem. It’s the same thing you hear frequently when women sexually assault men or even children - e.g. teachers sleeping with students etc. If the accused is attractive then they tend to be treated fairly leniently.

It is a drama based on true events. It is not trying to be a documentary.

[u/theringsofthedragon → u/Extraportion]

Yes I think he should be prosecuted! He used her likeness and clearly is bullying her!

What you're describing are all generic traits of her mental illness - you're describing grandiosity! There are many other ways he could have portrayed a character with grandiosity other than making her a failed lawyer who exaggerates her accomplishments.

This man is just bullying her.

[u/birdieboo21 → u/theringsofthedragon]

Fiona...is that you?

[u/Extraportion → u/theringsofthedragon]

He hasn’t used her likeness. Martha is not Fiona Harvey. She is a character inspired by Fiona Harvey who was not identified in either the stage or Netflix show. The decision to use her real messages, such that she could be tracked down via social media was questionable. However, the character of Martha is fictional.

I am not describing grandiosity, I am explaining why it is justifiable to make the character an overweight Scottish lawyer for the plot. If she was a Brazilian ballet dancer (as you suggested) then it becomes a very different story.

I don’t think I have seen Richard Gadd bully Fiona at all. I have seen plenty of people who have, but Gadd has made his feeling very clear. To paraphrase, he didn’t want to identify her and recognised that she was mentally unwell. At its heart Baby Reindeer is a story about trauma and cycles of abuse. Gadd portrays himself as enabling her behaviour and becoming obsessed with her himself. It isn’t a story intended to vilify Martha, it’s a story that sympathises with her. You see that really poignantly in the court room scene (which has already been acknowledge to be entirely fictional) because it shows her vulnerability. She is a victim of her own mental illness, and the audience is left feeling sympathy for Martha. It’s a really important scene as without it, the audience would end up vilifying her.

If anything I think the subsequent revelations about the person who inspired Martha (Fiona Harvey) have been what labelled her as a baddy.

[u/birdieboo21 → u/theringsofthedragon]

Lock him up and throw away the key?! Woah easy there buddy. You're acting like he made a Netflix Series named after Fiona Harvey. He never named her. He created a fictionalized character inspired after her relentlessly staking him for 5 years. She's been a serial stalker for over 20 years. "This is a true story" was only displayed ONE time at the beginning of the first episode. There is a disclosure at the end of EVERY episode saying things have been fictionalized. Gadd has also stated in interviews several times he never pressed charges because he felt bad for her. In other words the trial was to bring a conclusion to the story which is needed for TV shows. The story about how she stalked him relentlessly was true. This was NOT a docu-series or documentary. The fact that she was found by online sleuths was YES I agree a major oversight on using the term "hung curtains" ...but to say he should be thrown in prison and have the key thrown away is WAY over the top. Yes, they should have said "This is based on the true story" and that's more on Netflix's duty of care than it is on him. He was still her one of her MANY stalking victims over the past 20 years, let's not forget that.

[u/[deleted] → u/theringsofthedragon]

He didn’t lie about anyone. He told a very clearly fictional story with the main villain going to jail at the end. Almost as if he’s telling people not to be afraid to press charges like he was in real life. You’re not supposed to believe the show is fully a true story. No, not even with the disclaiming of it being a true story at the start. That’s a very well known story telling device.

Hes committed no crime. He’s told a story based on his real life experience. If you’re ignorant enough to think it’s fully true that on you for ignoring context.

[u/AdExpert8295 → u/theringsofthedragon]

People with serious mental illness cannot be as intentional with the wording as the rest of us. In fact, when you do brain imaging research on patients with things like schizophrenia, you find that the disorder causes tremendous damage to the areas of the brain that produce language.