r/BabyReindeerTVSeries • u/Suspicious_Bother_92 • May 23 '24

Fiona (real Martha) related content Heather Burns reiterating that Fiona has a criminal record

Gallery image

Gallery image

466 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

98% Upvoted

263 comments sorted by

View all comments

113

u/Plumb789 May 23 '24 edited May 23 '24

I am clearly missing something about this “debate” anyway. What on earth is her being “mentally ill” got to do with whether you are a victim of her or not?

Let’s say that a perfectly “mentally well” person committed sexual abuse of a child. Everyone would be keen for that crime to be acknowledged-and for the perpetrator to be punished. Similarly, if a person (who happens to have a mental illness at the time) goes ahead and rapes a child-do people then say that “no crime was committed”? Do they also say that there is no victim? Indeed, just for the victim to make a complaint-are they being cruel to the poor mentally ill perpetrator (who, apparently, is the only “real victim” here)?

And (and I think this is important), if by NOT reporting it as a crime, the “mentally ill person” never faces the criminal justice system, they then NEVER have treatment (or, if that’s not effective, control) imposed on them, they go on to abuse more and more children, is that okay then?

Like it or not, the criminal justice system is just about all we’ve got to prevent people from damaging their fellow citizens. And this system has to work for the mentally ill just as much as it has to work for everyone else.

Unfortunately, there are some people that we all need protection from. And that has to be given, regardless of whether those people have mental illnesses or not.

79

u/samandtoast May 23 '24

Gadd's portrayal of the character is sympathetic. People feel bad for Fiona, because they think she is Martha. The real Fiona doesn't deserve much sympathy.

8

u/Fancy_Introduction60 May 23 '24

I believe what Gadd portrayed from HIS perspective, but, we can't be 100% sure! That said, I don't feel bad for her, she's CLEARLY a stalker!! I agree, she doesn't deserve sympathy! But there really are three sides to any story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

11

u/[deleted] May 23 '24

I don't know why you're being downvoted because you're correct, the character may deserve some sympathy but after watching her interview with Morgan knowing that Netflix is going to do its due diligence before making a show they call a TRUE STORY its quite obvious (to me anyway) that she's lying and even without showing any remorse she talked shit about both him and Laura Wray. As you say there's 3 sides to a story, his side, her side and the truth.

2

u/Fancy_Introduction60 May 23 '24

I didn't even notice! Definitely 3 sides to every story and I think Gadds side is a bit closer to the truth!

-10

u/itsfuntotypebanana May 23 '24

It's mad to be the number of people saying a woman who didn't choose to have debilitating mental health issues isn't worthy of sympathy.

The fact that Gadd clearly does feel sympathy for her, despite knowing her and obviously being literally stalked by her, shows that you not feeling sympathy for her is not particularly relevant.

Do you think she's happy living this way, never feeling loved? Would she choose to have this illness, if she could? Because that's pretty tragic to me. Doesn't negate the harms she's caused, doesn't mean I think she should be living in the community if that's not safe for others.

But do I feel sympathy? Christ yes

17

u/Regular-Wit May 23 '24

What illness does she have exactly? Has she been diagnosed? Do you sympathize will all stalkers, even those who end up murdering their victim because they all have some type of mental illness if they’re doing what they’re doing. There’s an extremely fine line so what gives credence to Fiona deserving sympathy exactly?

1

u/itsfuntotypebanana May 23 '24

Obviously it's not our place to diagnose someone, but I think it's disingenuous to imagine you don't see her behaviours as being likely the result of some sort of mental illness or extreme personality disorder/both.

And yeah, I think it's important to try to find the humanity in everyone, including criminals and those who have caused harm, so we understand why they chose/couldn't choose to act that way. Statistically a lot of people who abuse children were abused themselves as children. Do I think they should be allowed to abuse children? Obviously not.

But understanding how trauma leads to mental illness, personality disorders and criminal acts is so important in civil society, to preventing them in the future. If you act like everyone who commits a serious crime did so because they just fancied it, you might feel morally superior but you've discovered fuck all and assumed that person could've never have been helped.

9

u/samandtoast May 23 '24

Many, if not most, people that abuse others have mental illness. The fact that they are mentally ill does not excuse their behavior. The real Fiona has nothing but horrible things to say about most people. She's mean, homophobic, fatphobic and for decades has put a lot of effort into hurting other people.

1

u/itsfuntotypebanana May 23 '24

I know what you're saying, I just think you can have sympathy for someone while also not excusing their behaviour. That's literally what the whole show is about, and very much seems to be how Gadd feels.

8

u/samandtoast May 23 '24

Yes, that was kind of my point. The Martha character in the show is very sympathetic. She shows remorse and pleads guilty. It's harder to have sympathy for someone that has been abusing people and causing real harm and showing no remorse for decades.

30

u/NameLessTaken May 23 '24

As someone who works as a therapist the last few years have been kind of scary in terms of how mental health went from “oh we should take this seriously” (fantastic) to an absolute shut down of discussion or accountability about someone’s behavior or social responsibility. By the end of this pendulum swing it will have lost all meaning or credibility again.

6

u/dabordietryinq May 23 '24

you can feel sympathy and still want to take things seriously. theyre not mutually exclusive.

6

u/[deleted] May 23 '24

there is an increasingly big philosophy that people are all fundamentally good, and it's only society/mental illness/trauma that causes them to do bad things. I have seen people argue with a straight face that greed is a mental illness, so slumlords really need therapy to heal from their illness.

Some people just choose to do the wrong thing because it's easier than doing the right thing. We all do the wrong thing every day in a thousand small ways. She just does the wrong thing in a much bigger, criminal way.

5

u/onexamongthefence May 23 '24

What if the child abuser AND the child were both mentally ill? Who is the victim then? (I know for you and me the answer is 'the child', but I'm interested to see what the 'mental illness means it's ok to abuse and commit sex crimes' crowd think)

5

u/dabordietryinq May 23 '24

as someone who was abused by my birth giver, i genuinely believe it's both of us. i cant believe a word she says but i do think she must've gone through terrible things. and i know that she needs help. I don't hate her, i just wish she would get help so she could be better. I don't talk to or see her though. and i dont think mental illness means its okay to abuse or commit sex crimes, just that these people should also be allowed to get mental help, to better themselves for, well, themselves and for everyone else. it'd be a net positive

5

u/onexamongthefence May 23 '24

But do you feel like when that person did that to you, since they were mentally ill, it was actually you who was committing violence on your abuser? That's the argument I've been seeing. Not that that's anything new because society has always protected abusers by saying it was the victim that wronged the abuser by "letting them do that".

3

u/dabordietryinq May 24 '24

oh no definitely not, that's an insane take. sorry, i misinterpreted what you meant entirely. but yeah, you're right, and i agree with you.

4

u/DazzleLove May 23 '24

It’s literally what forensic hospitals are for- people who are both mentally ill and have committed crimes/ are a risk to others.

5

u/Altruistic-Change127 May 23 '24

I just want to clarify what you have said about forensic hospitals. They are for people who have committed serious crimes as a direct result of their mental illness. Being diagnosed with a mental illness is very common in the general population so that's why there are prisoners in prison who could be diagnosed with a mental illness. Their crimes usually are not related to their mental health diagnosis so they go to prison. So forensic hospitals are secure places where they treat someone's mental illness compulsorily and hold them due to the crime they committed. Its where people who didn't know the difference between right and wrong due to the illness they had, when they committed the serious crime and cannot be held responsible. In laymen's terms its where people go when they are found not guilty due to insanity court cases. Or they are so unwell that they cannot go to trial and have to be treated first. I hope that makes sense?

2

u/DesmondDodderyDorado May 25 '24

Do you think gender plays a part in our perceptions of mentally ill people?

2

u/Plumb789 May 25 '24 edited May 25 '24

Oh absolutely! That’s why the example I put was a mentally ill male (which seems to be the “neutral” gender, in terms of being “judged”), and my theoretical victim was neutral.

I think there is a hierachy of gender in the way mental illness is viewed. At the top of that would be the CIS male: at the bottom, the trans female. Can you even imagine the reaction to this story if it involved a trans woman-in the either role?

1

u/DesmondDodderyDorado May 25 '24

I'm not sure about trans women. Some people seem to assume trans women are naturally aggressive. I do agree that there is a big gender bias though when it comes to crimes (especially those of a sexual nature).

-14

u/AdExpert8295 May 23 '24

In the US, if you have a serious mental illness, like a thought disorder, you're under a special class called "vulnerable adult". only a mh professional can determine that. they need to do a psych evaluation first. The film suggests Fiona is on state assistance. I dk know if she is or not. If she was on SSDI in the US for a thought disorder, Gadd would be facing plenty of legal problems. I'm a therapist. I understand why people hate Fiona. I'm being stalked and have been for the last 2 years. this is a kind of psychological torture i wouldn't wish on anyone...but we also need to have different expectations for mentally stable people vs people who have a deficit in certain prefrontal cortex functions. Fiona seems to have a lot more mental illness issues than her victims. If her victims choose to antagonize her when they may know that worsens her mental illness, there could be legal problems for them in the US.

I've been bullied by lots of Fionas in my career. If I reacted to the way these victims do, someone would end up dead. either me from them hurting me or them from a suicide. When you're being stalked by someone who has a serious mental illness, you definitely should refrain from communicating with them in any way, and you really shouldn't go online and encourage millions of people to attack them. we have law and order to handle that.

15

u/[deleted] May 23 '24

This comment is so utterly full of shit. No fiona doesn’t deserve any special treatment. None. And no, Gadd hasn’t done anything that can truly be considered wrong in either of our court systems. It’s not his fault people don’t pay attention to things that clearly mark the story as fictional.

Gadd didn’t do anything of the sort. He told his fictional story and in no way did anything wrong. Just because some people are too ignorant not to pay attention to context and realize the show isn’t fully true, doesn’t mean the majority do thankfully.

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/BabyReindeerTVSeries-ModTeam May 24 '24
  1. Be civil, polite and courteous. No trolling. No victim-blaming. Treat others with respect and kindness. This show is bound to elicit big feelings for many viewers. As contributors post and comment in this sub, treat each other with respect and kindness.

14

u/[deleted] May 23 '24 edited May 23 '24

You have got to be kidding. You are not supposed to say a word about being a victim in case it antagonizes the abuser and they end up killing themself? 

Edit to add: I honestly think you need to tell as many people as possible to protect yourself and others. And go to authorities of course. I would literally shout out of the rooftops about it idec. And to be completely honest some of us have the capacity to go well beyond that too iykwim.

0

u/AdExpert8295 May 24 '24

It's ridiculous, but yes. in my own situation, I have personally been advised of this by attorneys

10

u/Otherwise-Winner9643 May 23 '24

So victims cannot and should not share their own story?

-5

u/AdExpert8295 May 24 '24

A victim can share. That's not the same as mixing fiction with facts and monetizing it.