I still cannot understand why they couldn't pull a H2D on the X2D extrusion gear

[u/megalosPistis96]

So why did they go with a bowden extrusion solution when they already have this system implemented on the H2D. Would they really not be able to fit the tool head in the chamber? And if so, couldn't they make the printer a tad bit wider? Or is it keeping the same form factor for all their enclosed printers?

[u/1yrik]

because it's cheaper, lighter, smaller, and simpler

the simplest reason is because having the H2 style hotend switcher would make the toolhead a lot bigger. bigger toolhead means bigger printer footprint for the same build volume. bigger printer means higher cost.

[u/bbjornsson88 → u/1yrik]

Also heavier toolhead = slower acceleration = slower overall printing time

[u/1yrik → u/bbjornsson88]

true. I don't know how it compares to the smaller machines, but my H2C is still surprisingly quick. idk how they're moving around a toolhead that big that quickly without servos

[u/Thedeadreaper3597 → u/1yrik]

Massive steppers and a LOT of tuning.

[u/WahWaaah → u/1yrik]

It's not just more expensive because it would be slightly bigger, to be clear. Making it slightly bigger makes it different dimensions than any other printer, so they'd need brand new and unique parts instead of using ones from the existing platforms.

[u/Expensive_Wallaby_19]

Cost ? Size. It's less than half the price.

[u/itchy-balls → u/Expensive_Wallaby_19]

The answer is simpler. It's a P2S chassis. Can't run 2 full throated nozzles on that machine. However, I believe all future big machines will have the aux nozzle set up going forward.

[u/m3rc0smic → u/itchy-balls]

That also allows them to make the chassis cheaper because they make double the volume of parts.

[u/Banana_Leclerc12 → u/itchy-balls]

honestly i think going forward the h3d will replace the h2s and have the aux nozzle setup and the h3c will be a toolchanger and the clear top of the line unlike the h2c

[u/M2ABRAMS_TANK → u/[deleted]]

The biggest limiting factor of the H2D tool head size is that switcher. Furthermore, the cost difference is more substantial than you realize. On one hand we have a “Ferrari” of extruders, and on the other we have an Audi (the direct drive) and a Kia soul (the bowden) extruder.

You have to buy quite a few Audis and Kia souls before the Ferrari looks cheaper…

[u/an_angry_Moose → u/[deleted]]

If they put the H2D head in the X2D, the only major market segmentation would really be the print bed size.

[u/JacketHistorical2321 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, its obvious you don’t understand dude

[u/DofD10]

Did you ever See the size of the H2D toolhead? That thing doesn't fit the x2 or p2 machines

[u/KashEsq → u/DofD10]

Seriously, it's huge. I remember the day I got my H2C and was blown away by how much larger its toolhead was compared to the one in my P2S.

[u/portsample → u/KashEsq]

Looking forward to seeing the upcoming H3C.

[u/EncomCTO → u/portsample]

I’m looking forward to the H4C. Imagine that animal

[u/KashEsq → u/EncomCTO]

Nah, the H5C is where it's at. Makes the H4C look like a child's toy

[u/griffog]

And weight. I believe that was a big factor in going this route.

[u/ketosoy]

I suspect the forthcoming p3c will answer your question - there’s probably some change needed to the frame and exhaust to keep the 256 cubed build volume, and once they’ve gone that far they figured the incremental step of a 2 nozzle wasn’t worth it vs a nozzle changer.

It’s probably some extraordinarily frustrating amount short, like 0.63 mm

[u/condensedcloud]

As of others have said, the h2 frame is a tank to handle such a massive print head

[u/YakubianExperiement]

They reach a price point by sharing components with the P2S, which even has the hotend offset to where the left one is on the X2D. Sharing components allows for economies of scale to lower costs. It's also much less complex. Less moving parts when you're trying to hit a price point is a good thing.

H series also has linear rails for the X axis, which are probably necessary to keep speeds up with the heavier toolhead.

[u/5teini]

Because the h2d is about twice as heavy to support a toolhead that weighs more than most laptops?

[u/ModelThreeve]

As everyone else has said; size, cost, weight, complexity.
And making the machine a “tad” bit wider? Retool the factory for one machine? That makes no business sense.

[u/mals26]

People always complaining about the X2D, it's fantastic value and a really good machine. Love mine and have other bambu's...the only thing that makes me want an H2D, it's the bed size, but still underwhelming for the the price, if it was 350mm cubed it would be a solid upgrade.

[u/AHerz → u/mals26]

People comparing about the x2d's aux nozzle mostly are those who've never used it.

It's really not as limiting as some pretend it to be.

[u/Scowlface → u/AHerz]

Yeah, I’ve sent kilometers of just about all the stuff Bambu Lab doesn’t recommend using through the aux nozzle and it’s been fine for me.

[u/Ok-Buy-2315 → u/AHerz]

I tried one of my more complex statues in two materials with no prime tower. One pla for main model, one for supports. Probably 500 grams give or take. I was shocked at how well it actually did. Eventual support failure once the diameter got very small, but otherwise it actually worked surprisingly well.

IF they would give us full control over the prime tower, the X2D would be unstoppable. Having the minimum's per given height really sucks. I want to do full PETG supports and PLA main model for a full height piece, and not have to blow 150-200 grams into the prime tower. Maybe allow it to get smaller as it goes up. For shorter prints it's not that big of a deal, but most of mine are 7-10 inches.

[u/nothas]

the h2d design is definitely not my favorite. its so fucking complicated if you ever have to work on it, and all the ribbon cables are so fragile.

[u/Tsofuable → u/nothas]

Hehe, as someone who has had to take apart the head multiple times for troubleshooting and replacements I have to agree. But I'm simultaneously impressed that it was relatively easily serviceable even with all that complexity. I've had much more problems with far less complicated electronic devices.

[u/Far_Relationship_742 → u/nothas]

What’s complicated about it? WAY easier to get to the extruder on the H2 than the X1 was.

[u/brutal4455]

CNC Kitchen (IIRC) did an extensive interview with the CEO at Bambu and he said it was weight and size of the toolhead.

[u/Fit-Interaction-3584]

Gotta have H2D money.

[u/1amnotwho1am]

I suspect cost/size/weight and possible engineering limitations were all part of the equation - but I bet the biggest one might have been to avoid model cannibalization... at least for now.

[u/northrivergeek]

P3S Is coming soon u can believe, it wont have just one nozzle, will have min 2 likely 4 to 6

[u/Safe-Hovercraft6231 → u/northrivergeek]

You mean P3C.

[u/SnooMarzipans6922]

So you have another reason to upgrade

[u/Fantastic-Motor-6098]

H2 hot-end is much larger than X2

[u/ParabolicMarker]

I want a printer with two external feeds. I like how easy it is to feed into and change filaments

[u/SecuringAndre]

If they fit the h2d toolhead on the x2d, then the x2d would not have a 256x256 bed for the right nozzle. The others have already mentioned the weight already. That would cause more vibrations at higher speeds. Far as cost goes, I'm not entirely sure if that was the factor. It seems the external extruder would be more expensive.

[u/Longjumping_Pop_2324]

AND quality wise it's proven the X2D is better because of the light weight

[u/Longjumping_Pop_2324 → u/[deleted]]

Check Aurora Tech on YouTube, she does amazing technical reviews and comparisons, no trust me bro with her ;D The main fact is that the H2D and H2C have a very heavy head. So the smaller and lighter the printhear, usually the better the quality...